Re: Re: MP labelling

[Guest guest]

>suppliers/manufacturers refuse to give out the information or don't >know

what is in it themselves. My understanding is that they claim it

There is no good reason why anyone purchasing a melt and pour base (soap or

syndet or some combo thereof) should not receive an ingredient list from

their supplier. I don't understand how a person is supposed to label the

ingredients of their m & p creation if they don't know what is in the base. A

few years ago when there was only one or two major manufacturers of syndet

m & p bases (the strong smelling ones) that was true, ingredients were not

obtainable or at least not full disclosure. Now there are many

manufacturers and many bases that are soap based, all providing ingredient

lists of their product to the suppliers that sell them.

As a supplier I would have a hard time selling something without providing

the ingredient list to my clients. It's one of the reasons I never stocked

m & p back when (actually the main reason was I thought it was an awful

product, sticky, stinky and going amber or brown in a short period of

time...never mind no one knew what it was made of ;-). I had the full

ingredient list for the previous base I carried as well as the one I stock

now.

While I understand the need for trade secrets, I can't see how someone

selling a product can buy an ingredient/base without getting a list of

ingredients so they can properly label their finished product. Seems to me

there are some other products out there (colour products maybe?) claiming

trade secrets, but unless one is a crafter only using the product for

personal use I don't see how one could purchase one of these products for

use if in business. What would you put on the ingredient list? Mystery

base, fragrance, mystery colour product? I'm pretty sure " mystery soap

base " _isn't_ a proper INCI name ;-)

Warmly,

Sherri

http://www.oshun.bc.ca mailto:info@...

Oshun - Soap & Cosmetic Ingredients & Packaging Wholesalers, Cosmetic &

Soap Manufacturers. Your wholesale source for quality!

[Guest guest]

> The MSDS is created by the manufacturer. I've never seen one for m & p, but

> there may well be some out there. A MSDS is not the same as a product data

> sheet or an ingredient list though it may contain information on the exact

> composition of a product that is not a single raw material.

Why would m & p be treated any different than any other combination of

chemicals that are required to have a MSDS? I know it is not the same as a

product data sheet, but the chemicals are listed on it as well.

> I would guess that MSDS distribution has mostly to do with company policy.

> For example when I buy citric acid from my main supplier I get a MSDS

every

> time.

My understanding is that it is a requirement to send it on the first order

only. I believe it is an OSHA requirement.

Pat.

Peace, Joy, Serenity

House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc.

achil@...

http://houseofscents.safeshopper.com/

www.yourhealthandbody.com

[Guest guest]

Sherri,

You are wrong about the MSDS sheets for Windex or any other consumer product

for that matter. If you call SC and request it they will provide you

with the MSDS for Windex or any product of theirs. It is the law. Under the

RTK all manufacturers are required to provide an MSDS for all products using

'chemicals'. There are no exceptions. Under the RTK all of the homecrafters

are required to provide an MSDS to any person requesting one. You can call

P & G and get the MSDS for Tide if you want. An MSDS does not contain

proprietary information. It does not list specific ingredients unless they

can present a hazard to the user of the product. Do not think for one second

that you are exempt from providing an MSDS on demand either as a raw

material supplier or as a finished goods manufacturer. You can find yourself

in very severe hot water with OSHA if you fail to provide this data. OSHA

takes no prisoners either. Look in the FOIA and you will find huge fines for

violations.

Young

KY Labs

Innovators of Fine Personal Care Products

www.kylabs.com

Re: Re: MP labelling

>I don't think I have ever been sent a MSDS without having to ask for it,

from any of the resellers, on anything. Check descriptions south of the

border and you may be surprised.

Pat I'm not sure what you're saying here. We were talking about ingredient

lists for m & p...MSDS for raw materials is a separate, albeit valid, topic,

no?

It's been a number of years since I took the WHMIS course, but I believe

the point of the whole thing is work place safety. Any worksite where

chemicals are used or stored is required to have a book with MSDS (Material

Safety Data Sheets) for each product on site for the employees to access

for information both prior to working with a substance as well as to refer

to in case of a spill or emergency for proper procedures. There are things

that are exceptions, and here trade secrets come into play once again. For

example there is no MSDS for Windex as well as many other products that

fall under the pesticides act. With Windex it is a trade secret, so those

janitors working with Windex all day every day have no access to

information normally contained on a MSDS. Like many systems there are

cracks and flaws.

The MSDS is created by the manufacturer. I've never seen one for m & p, but

there may well be some out there. A MSDS is not the same as a product data

sheet or an ingredient list though it may contain information on the exact

composition of a product that is not a single raw material.

I would guess that MSDS distribution has mostly to do with company policy.

For example when I buy citric acid from my main supplier I get a MSDS every

time. No matter that I have many copies already on hand, I just bought a

few bags the other day and they faxed me yet another multi page copy of it.

Yet when I buy citric acid from one of my other suppliers I don't receive a

MSDS at all. It is the company policy of the former supplier to give out a

MSDS with every sale, whereas the latter companies policies are obviously

not the same.

As to resellers as we're being called.....well again it would come down to

company policy I would imagine. Probably a large percentage of the people

we're selling to don't even know what a MSDS is, perhaps some of the

resellers themselves aren't even knowledgeable about them. That aside I do

think it is a good idea that all suppliers provide them. The problem is we

may not all have the time to put it together, so in the meantime they are

available if asked. I have never once been asked for one, but I do plan to

eventually have MSDS for every product that one is available for up on the

web site so that people can access, print or download them. What I don't

have right now is the spare time to do this. I don't think my clients would

be very understanding if I told them " sorry I'm not shipping orders this

week because I'm working on an MSDS project " . An MSwhat? ;-)

While many of us small suppliers swim in the same pool as the big fellows,

we don't have the same resources or staffing. When time is very limited due

to volume of sales one has to prioritize. If people are asking for more

product data and photos and no one is even mentioning MSDS, which project

do you think will be higher in priority on the never ending to-do lists we

deal with? We may have good intentions, just not the ability to complete

them immediately. I would also hate to think about how many trees that

would add up to in a year if I sent out a 13 page MSDS with every 1 kg bag

of citric acid I sold.

Warmly,

Sherri

http://www.oshun.bc.ca mailto:info@...

Oshun - Soap & Cosmetic Ingredients & Packaging Wholesalers, Cosmetic &

Soap Manufacturers. Your wholesale source for quality!