Re: New topic

[Guest guest]

> I'm pleased to see that at least someone on the list can acknowledge being

>angry and irritable. Who would think chronic pain & losing control of your

>life would make someone a little crabby? And your having limits due to

>chronic pain certainly affects people in your family/ close relationships.

I'll tell you, I was one p.o.'d person for quite awhile there! I went

through what I think of as a grieving process and the anger was pretty darn

strong and lasted quite a long time! I think that one of the many reasons

my marriage, I injured myself a year after I was married to my now-ex hubby,

went south is because of my never ending anger and crabbiness. It was like

permanent PMS! :-) I even laughingly...sort of.... told people I was the

'PMS Death B*tch From Hell " during that period of time.

Darn right it messes with your whole being! The control issue was a biggie

for me and I found was really the biggest source of my anger..not the only

source but the biggest. I had to find a way to relinquish control, to

accept that I couldn't control, and accept that I had pain and limitations

before I could look at the anger I had. Sure wasn't fun or easy and it's

something that I find always needs a bit of 'work'. I'm happily married

now, to a wonderful man, and in the 5+ yrs. we've been together he's noted

that I'm not nearly as crabby or angry as I was when he met me. Amazing

that he hung in there with me! :-) I do note my level of irritation,

frustration, anger and feeling the blues goes up when my pain level goes up

or I'm not taking enough pain medication.

CULater,

Ruthie

===========================

Ruthie Cunliffe K2ZQ

ruthie@...

http://www.cunliffegroup.com/ruthie/

experimental web cam: http://www.cunliffegroup.com/ruthie/spy/

** A BALANCED DIET IS A COOKIE IN EACH HAND **

[Guest guest]

Hi folks,

It's been a long time since I've posted any thing, but I have been reading

everything that I'm sent. I seem to be in a state of depression. I've been

unable to do most anything except the daily checking in on patients. but as

far as my own life goes.....I'm stuck. I can truely relate to alot of what

has been said recently, and at the time I say " I want to respond to that " but

I am unable to do so. When I start to think about what to say I am in tears

and I feel like it will last forever. So I stop myself....from feeling

anything. Therefore I have cut myself off from everything. Now you would

think that knowing these things I would do something about it. I truely don't

know how to start the process. Grief overcomes me. Once again I have set the

goal of finding a therapist who understands chronic pain and all that it

encompasses. Lately the doctors have been telling me more and more about what

is " wrong " with me, and there are a good many days that I think " Why bother "

I used to be a hopeful person but I am unable right now to tap into that.

thank you for being here. Today I have made some progress . I finally did

write to all of you.

Kathleen

[Guest guest]

Kathleen,

Thanks for your post. Thank you for being honest with yourself and with

us. Most of us can understand what you are saying because we have been

there, or are there right now. If I had to characterize chronic pain as

a person, I'd say it is most like the horror picture Vampires, sucking

the life right out of us. Every day I seem to lose more abilities, more

activities. When does it stop? Does the pain ever cease? Do you ever

recover, even a little bit, from the pain and what it does to your life

and your relationships? It really depend upon you. What actions will

you take, today, to help yourself? I went through a year of therapy

with my wife and our then 17 year old daughter. We learned a lot about

each other, about my disease, about what pain does to me and how it

affects my relationship with them, and our other children. Did the

chronic pain change? No. But I changed, and my family changed, making

us better able to cope. I now know how to control my rage at the

disease and not direct it toward my family. Still haven't found exactly

where to send it, yet. But at least it is not destroying my life along

with the ones I love, as much as it used to. And that is an

improvement. I encourage you to see a therapist and pour your soul and

heart out. Keeping it all inside only results in self-destruction

(emotionally), and isolates you from those you need the most in your

life right now. I will be praying for you.

Ray in Virginia

[Guest guest]

Kathleen,

I know exactly how you feel. I too am in the same boat. I wish I knew what to

tell

you or how to break the relentless circle of pain and depression. My pain

continues to worsen by the day and yet no one will touch me because I am

suddenly

diabetic. I need another back surgery and total knee replacement on the left

knee.

But no matter how bad it gets and no matter how crippled I become from it, they

REFUSE to do anything for a minimum of a year and at that point I have to beg

and

plead to get them to even consider doing anything. I must show that I can't live

without the surgery before they do so. I feel so helpless and caught in a trap.

A

trap of my body failing me, punishing me for my past life.

I hope and pray you find the anwers and relief you so deeply deserve. I hope I

do

too, but mine is all time related and Time is not on my side.

Best wishes, Your friend in pain,

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathleen & and all,

I know how you both feel. I started out with just something

wrong with my foot. I was working of course but didn't know what was

going on. I was in so much pain then found out something was wrong with

my back cause I had back pain for so many years. I finally saw a doctor

that would see me for my pain...and ended up my foot and back problem

were both separate from each other as in the symptoms but anyways I had

2 ruptured disks in my lower back. Had 2 laminectomies and root

decompression and finally a fusion but on one disk. I'm living with

nerve damage pain daily. It affected my mind as well. I ended up in

therapy...they gave me elavil for the nerve pain and to sleep. It

doesn't do anything for the pain though but helps me sleep which is

great but now I take prozac 20mg as well to cause of the depression that

came after. I'm trying to keep my life going finishing off a course I

took...secretarial course. and other things to keep my mind busy. Well I

hope kathleen and you john get well.

Your friend in pain to,

Tammy

CH>

CH>Kathleen,

CH>I know exactly how you feel. I too am in the same boat. I wish I knew what t

CH>you or how to break the relentless circle of pain and depression. My pain

CH>continues to worsen by the day and yet no one will touch me because I am sud

CH>diabetic. I need another back surgery and total knee replacement on the left

CH>But no matter how bad it gets and no matter how crippled I become from it, t

CH>REFUSE to do anything for a minimum of a year and at that point I have to be

CH>plead to get them to even consider doing anything. I must show that I can't

CH>without the surgery before they do so. I feel so helpless and caught in a tr

CH>trap of my body failing me, punishing me for my past life.

CH>I hope and pray you find the anwers and relief you so deeply deserve. I hope

CH>too, but mine is all time related and Time is not on my side.

CH>Best wishes, Your friend in pain,

CH>

CH>------------------------------------------------------------------------

CH>

[Guest guest]

Here is some food for thought from a book that I'm reading

called- " Walking in Beauty " it's about the spiritual wisdom of Dick

Olney-

When you feel bad, if you allow yourself to feel worse, you begin to

feel better

It is refusing to experience an emotion that keeps it with you. To

expereince it is to let go of it.

Do not ever be afraid of feeling. Embrace them. They are the way you

know you are alive and real.

and my favorite- anguish is the pain you feel when you try not to feel

sorrow.

~››~››~››~››~››~››~››~››~›

Success is not measured by how well we deal with plan " A " but by how

well we deal with plan " B " .

‹‹§‹‹§‹‹§‹‹§‹‹§‹‹§‹‹§‹‹§

[Guest guest]

Hello Tammy,

I think a good many of us with chr. p. had problems starting in the

leg.

I guess sciatic nerve interference, which for me went without diagnosis or

assistance while I was getting worse & worse. Also, since it started off

when I

was 21, doctors just shrugged off the problems as some sort of unimportant

irregularity. Some irregularity. Started by spontaneous muscle spasms ripping

muscles in my leg & back. I knew something was really wrong, but just kept

keeping on because I had no better information.

What happened when your problems started & how were you treated?

Ken

t 12:18 PM 9/13/98 -0400, you wrote:

>From: Shrimperooski@...

>

>Hi Kathleen & and all,

> I know how you both feel. I started out with just something

>wrong with my foot. I was working of course but didn't know what was

>going on. I was in so much pain then found out something was wrong with

>my back cause I had back pain for so many years. I finally saw a doctor

>that would see me for my pain...and ended up my foot and back problem

>were both separate from each other as in the symptoms but anyways I had

>2 ruptured disks in my lower back. Had 2 laminectomies and root

>decompression and finally a fusion but on one disk. I'm living with

>nerve damage pain daily. It affected my mind as well. I ended up in

>therapy...they gave me elavil for the nerve pain and to sleep. It

>doesn't do anything for the pain though but helps me sleep which is

>great but now I take prozac 20mg as well to cause of the depression that

>came after. I'm trying to keep my life going finishing off a course I

>took...secretarial course. and other things to keep my mind busy. Well I

>hope kathleen and you john get well.

>

> Your friend in pain to,

> Tammy

>

>

>

>CH>

>

>CH>Kathleen,

>

>CH>I know exactly how you feel. I too am in the same boat. I wish I knew what

t

>CH>you or how to break the relentless circle of pain and depression. My pain

>CH>continues to worsen by the day and yet no one will touch me because I am

sud

>CH>diabetic. I need another back surgery and total knee replacement on the

left

>CH>But no matter how bad it gets and no matter how crippled I become from it,

t

>CH>REFUSE to do anything for a minimum of a year and at that point I have to

be

>CH>plead to get them to even consider doing anything. I must show that I

can't

>CH>without the surgery before they do so. I feel so helpless and caught in a

tr

>CH>trap of my body failing me, punishing me for my past life.

>

>CH>I hope and pray you find the anwers and relief you so deeply deserve. I

hope

>CH>too, but mine is all time related and Time is not on my side.

>

>CH>Best wishes, Your friend in pain,

>CH>

>

>

>

>

>CH>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>CH>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Interesting line of thinking. It touches on some opinions I gathered

about 10 years ago from beginning Tai Chi (an unlikely thing for me to do,

but

I did anyway). It is a combination of slow-motion body movement & unique

meditation that forms the foundation for Chinese health exercises & also

self-defense. Part of the discipline is completely clearing your mind so your

body can respond without thought. This is likened to the manner of the tiger.

Once you are doing the form (routines of movement) it becomes very

easy

to clear one's mind & become totally perceptive. One of the tenets is " to

become one with your enemy " , very much like your reference describes. There is

no emotion. And once this takes place, it is felt to remove barriers to

overcoming the enemy.

I believe this holds some value for surviving with chronic pain, at

least for me. The reason I started was that the leader of a group Iwas in, and

somewhat of a Pioneer in founding one of the earlier creative multi-discipline

pain treatment centers, was himself a master in Tai Chi, although his leg

muscles were severely damaged. He was also a marathon runner.

Ken

At 11:25 PM 9/13/98 -0600, you wrote:

>From: Andy24747@... (A. )

>

>Here is some food for thought from a book that I'm reading

>called- " Walking in Beauty " it's about the spiritual wisdom of Dick

>Olney-

>When you feel bad, if you allow yourself to feel worse, you begin to

>feel better

>

>It is refusing to experience an emotion that keeps it with you. To

>expereince it is to let go of it.

>

>Do not ever be afraid of feeling. Embrace them. They are the way you

>know you are alive and real.

>

>and my favorite- anguish is the pain you feel when you try not to feel

>sorrow.

>

>

>~››~››~››~››~››~››~››~››~›

>Success is not measured by how well we deal with plan " A " but by how

>well we deal with plan " B " .

>‹‹§‹‹§‹‹§‹‹§‹‹§‹‹§‹‹§‹‹§

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ken,

I had pain for many years before I had seen a doctor about

it. It got to the point when I couldn't stand it anymore then decided to

go see the doctor. I had cortezone shots, anti-inflamatory drugs &

physical therapy and before I knew it things were getting a little

better then after time went by the pain started up again so now I go to

the local hospital here which they have a pain center and I go every

month to 2 months for an epidural. The doctor injects some lidocain into

my lower back and then gives me another shot which is some kind of

cortezone which helps quite a bit. It only lasts for about a month or so

then I'm feeling the pain all over again. I use a TENS unit sometimes so

that helps also. But the depression is still there so thats something I

have to cope with along taking my meds for it.

Tammy

CH>Hello Tammy,

CH> I think a good many of us with chr. p. had problems starting in the

CH>leg.

CH>I guess sciatic nerve interference, which for me went without diagnosis or

CH>assistance while I was getting worse & worse. Also, since it started off

CH>when I

CH>was 21, doctors just shrugged off the problems as some sort of unimportant

CH>irregularity. Some irregularity. Started by spontaneous muscle spasms rippin

CH>muscles in my leg & back. I knew something was really wrong, but just kept

CH>keeping on because I had no better information.

CH> What happened when your problems started & how were you treated?

CH> Ken

CH>t 12:18 PM 9/13/98 -0400, you wrote:

CH>>From: Shrimperooski@...

CH>>

CH>>Hi Kathleen & and all,

CH>> I know how you both feel. I started out with just something

CH>>wrong with my foot. I was working of course but didn't know what was

CH>>going on. I was in so much pain then found out something was wrong with

CH>>my back cause I had back pain for so many years. I finally saw a doctor

CH>>that would see me for my pain...and ended up my foot and back problem

CH>>were both separate from each other as in the symptoms but anyways I had

CH>>2 ruptured disks in my lower back. Had 2 laminectomies and root

CH>>decompression and finally a fusion but on one disk. I'm living with

CH>>nerve damage pain daily. It affected my mind as well. I ended up in

CH>>therapy...they gave me elavil for the nerve pain and to sleep. It

CH>>doesn't do anything for the pain though but helps me sleep which is

CH>>great but now I take prozac 20mg as well to cause of the depression that

CH>>came after. I'm trying to keep my life going finishing off a course I

CH>>took...secretarial course. and other things to keep my mind busy. Well I

CH>>hope kathleen and you john get well.

CH>>

CH>> Your friend in pain to,

CH>> Tammy

CH>>

CH>>

CH>>

CH>>CH>

CH>>

CH>>CH>Kathleen,

CH>>

CH>>CH>I know exactly how you feel. I too am in the same boat. I wish I knew wh

CH>t

CH>>CH>you or how to break the relentless circle of pain and depression. My pai

CH>>CH>continues to worsen by the day and yet no one will touch me because I am

CH>sud

CH>>CH>diabetic. I need another back surgery and total knee replacement on the

CH>left

CH>>CH>But no matter how bad it gets and no matter how crippled I become from i

CH>t

CH>>CH>REFUSE to do anything for a minimum of a year and at that point I have t

CH>be

CH>>CH>plead to get them to even consider doing anything. I must show that I

CH>can't

CH>>CH>without the surgery before they do so. I feel so helpless and caught in

CH>tr

CH>>CH>trap of my body failing me, punishing me for my past life.

CH>>

CH>>CH>I hope and pray you find the anwers and relief you so deeply deserve. I

CH>hope

CH>>CH>too, but mine is all time related and Time is not on my side.

CH>>

CH>>CH>Best wishes, Your friend in pain,

CH>>CH>

CH>>

CH>>

CH>>

CH>>

CH>>CH>------------------------------------------------------------------------

CH>>CH>

[Guest guest]

Tammy, I get all the same shots you do, but I also have lately been

getting a Bo-Tox injection. This is a very minute amount of the botulism

toxin in trigger point injections in the back. The idea behind it is

that botulism kills by paralyzing the muscles, eventually of the heart

and lungs. A tiny amount in the back in trigger points relaxes the

muscles tensed from the pain. It is a God send for me. They take about

two weeks to work after treatment, but last about a month.

Expensive, but now most insurances accept after prior approval. You

might want to look into it.

Lyn =^..^=

" We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking up at the stars. "

Wilde

http://home.talkcity.com/spiritcir/lynmari/index.html

[Guest guest]

Hi Lyn.... I used to get trigger point injections. I forget the name of the

stuff but it only lasts a few weeks then I'm hurting all over again. At the

first time getting them I had 7 shots just on my left side of my lumbar

area. I think the epidurals work much better for me then the trigger point

injection. I'm glad they work for you. I have heard of what botulism does to

a persons body. Not to good if in large amount. I have government

insurance...medicare. They cover alot of stuff so I'm glad they cover the

shots I get. Thanks for responding back to me. I'm thankful there are people

out there like you and others that I can relate to...God Bless.

Tammy

Re: New topic

>Tammy, I get all the same shots you do, but I also have lately been

>getting a Bo-Tox injection. This is a very minute amount of the botulism

>toxin in trigger point injections in the back. The idea behind it is

>that botulism kills by paralyzing the muscles, eventually of the heart

>and lungs. A tiny amount in the back in trigger points relaxes the

>muscles tensed from the pain. It is a God send for me. They take about

>two weeks to work after treatment, but last about a month.

>Expensive, but now most insurances accept after prior approval. You

>might want to look into it.

>

>Lyn =^..^=

>

> " We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking up at the stars. "

> Wilde

>http://home.talkcity.com/spiritcir/lynmari/index.html

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

This treatment is a perfect example of homeopathic medicine, which was

trashed in the US in 1920-1930. There still are a few practitioners & some

hold-out institutes. But it is generally ignored or dismissed as bogus.

As a matter of fact, the whole concept of immunization

(vaccination) and

progressive desensitization (allergy treatment) are homeopathic in origin.

Ken

At 07:12 PM 9/14/98 -0500, you wrote:

>Tammy, I get all the same shots you do, but I also have lately been

>getting a Bo-Tox injection. This is a very minute amount of the botulism

>toxin in trigger point injections in the back. The idea behind it is

>that botulism kills by paralyzing the muscles, eventually of the heart

>and lungs. A tiny amount in the back in trigger points relaxes the

>muscles tensed from the pain. It is a God send for me. They take about

>two weeks to work after treatment, but last about a month.

>Expensive, but now most insurances accept after prior approval. You

>might want to look into it.

>

>Lyn =^..^=

>

> " We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking up at the stars. "

> Wilde

>http://home.talkcity.com/spiritcir/lynmari/index.html

>

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>From: Shrimperooski@...

>To: chronic_painonelist

>Date: 14 Sep 1998 12:06:10 EDT

>Mailing-List: list chronic_painonelist; contact http://www.onelist.com

>Delivered-To: mailing list chronic_painonelist

>Precedence: bulk

>Reply-to: chronic_painonelist

>Mime-Version: 1.0

>Subject: Re: New topic

>

>From: Shrimperooski@...

>

>Hi Ken,

> I had pain for many years before I had seen a doctor about

>it. It got to the point when I couldn't stand it anymore then decided to

>go see the doctor. I had cortezone shots, anti-inflamatory drugs &

>physical therapy and before I knew it things were getting a little

>better then after time went by the pain started up again so now I go to

>the local hospital here which they have a pain center and I go every

>month to 2 months for an epidural. The doctor injects some lidocain into

>my lower back and then gives me another shot which is some kind of

>cortezone which helps quite a bit. It only lasts for about a month or so

>then I'm feeling the pain all over again. I use a TENS unit sometimes so

>that helps also. But the depression is still there so thats something I

>have to cope with along taking my meds for it.

> Tammy

>

>CH>Hello Tammy,

>

>CH> I think a good many of us with chr. p. had problems starting in

the

>CH>leg.

>CH>I guess sciatic nerve interference, which for me went without diagnosis or

>CH>assistance while I was getting worse & worse. Also, since it started off

>CH>when I

>CH>was 21, doctors just shrugged off the problems as some sort of unimportant

>CH>irregularity. Some irregularity. Started by spontaneous muscle spasms

rippin

>CH>muscles in my leg & back. I knew something was really wrong, but just kept

>CH>keeping on because I had no better information.

>

>CH> What happened when your problems started & how were you treated?

>

>CH> Ken

>CH>t 12:18 PM 9/13/98 -0400, you wrote:

>CH>>From: Shrimperooski@...

>CH>>

>CH>>Hi Kathleen & and all,

>CH>> I know how you both feel. I started out with just something

>CH>>wrong with my foot. I was working of course but didn't know what was

>CH>>going on. I was in so much pain then found out something was wrong with

>CH>>my back cause I had back pain for so many years. I finally saw a doctor

>CH>>that would see me for my pain...and ended up my foot and back problem

>CH>>were both separate from each other as in the symptoms but anyways I had

>CH>>2 ruptured disks in my lower back. Had 2 laminectomies and root

>CH>>decompression and finally a fusion but on one disk. I'm living with

>CH>>nerve damage pain daily. It affected my mind as well. I ended up in

>CH>>therapy...they gave me elavil for the nerve pain and to sleep. It

>CH>>doesn't do anything for the pain though but helps me sleep which is

>CH>>great but now I take prozac 20mg as well to cause of the depression that

>CH>>came after. I'm trying to keep my life going finishing off a course I

>CH>>took...secretarial course. and other things to keep my mind busy. Well I

>CH>>hope kathleen and you john get well.

>CH>>

>CH>> Your friend in pain to,

>CH>> Tammy

>CH>>

>CH>>

>CH>>

>CH>>CH>

>CH>>

>CH>>CH>Kathleen,

>CH>>

>CH>>CH>I know exactly how you feel. I too am in the same boat. I wish I knew

wh

>CH>t

>CH>>CH>you or how to break the relentless circle of pain and depression. My

pai

>CH>>CH>continues to worsen by the day and yet no one will touch me because I

am

>CH>sud

>CH>>CH>diabetic. I need another back surgery and total knee replacement on

the

>CH>left

>CH>>CH>But no matter how bad it gets and no matter how crippled I become from

i

>CH>t

>CH>>CH>REFUSE to do anything for a minimum of a year and at that point I have

t

>CH>be

>CH>>CH>plead to get them to even consider doing anything. I must show that I

>CH>can't

>CH>>CH>without the surgery before they do so. I feel so helpless and

caught in

>CH>tr

>CH>>CH>trap of my body failing me, punishing me for my past life.

>CH>>

>CH>>CH>I hope and pray you find the anwers and relief you so deeply

deserve. I

>CH>hope

>CH>>CH>too, but mine is all time related and Time is not on my side.

>CH>>

>CH>>CH>Best wishes, Your friend in pain,

>CH>>CH>

>CH>>

>CH>>

>CH>>

>CH>>

>CH>>CH>--------------------------------------------------------------------

----

>CH>>CH>

[Guest guest]

Wow! and I thought I was lucky when I got relief from trigger points for a few

days. Guess I should have seen your doc!

Ken

At 10:27 PM 9/14/98 -0400, you wrote:

>

>

>Hi Lyn.... I used to get trigger point injections. I forget the name of the

>stuff but it only lasts a few weeks then I'm hurting all over again. At the

>first time getting them I had 7 shots just on my left side of my lumbar

>area. I think the epidurals work much better for me then the trigger point

>injection. I'm glad they work for you. I have heard of what botulism does to

>a persons body. Not to good if in large amount. I have government

>insurance...medicare. They cover alot of stuff so I'm glad they cover the

>shots I get. Thanks for responding back to me. I'm thankful there are people

>out there like you and others that I can relate to...God Bless.

>

> Tammy

> Re: New topic

>

>

>>Tammy, I get all the same shots you do, but I also have lately been

>>getting a Bo-Tox injection. This is a very minute amount of the botulism

>>toxin in trigger point injections in the back. The idea behind it is

>>that botulism kills by paralyzing the muscles, eventually of the heart

>>and lungs. A tiny amount in the back in trigger points relaxes the

>>muscles tensed from the pain. It is a God send for me. They take about

>>two weeks to work after treatment, but last about a month.

>>Expensive, but now most insurances accept after prior approval. You

>>might want to look into it.

>>

>>Lyn =^..^=

>>

>> " We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking up at the stars. "

>> Wilde

>>http://home.talkcity.com/spiritcir/lynmari/index.html

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Check out bo-tox injections...really , I get relief for a month. They

work..and the only side effects are a couple of " woozy " days right after

injections. They ARE safe. I will see what I can find on the net about

them and forward it.

Lyn =^..^=

" We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking up at the stars. "

Wilde

http://home.talkcity.com/spiritcir/lynmari/index.html

[Guest guest]

So you are saying what? Bad or good?

Forgive my fibrofog, but it isn't clear. It is not an immunization nor a

desensitization

series of shots. The toxin simply makes the muscles relax. It is being

used in other types of chronic pain, and injuries too. Hang tight till I

find my info.

Lyn =^..^=

" We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking up at the stars. "

Wilde

http://home.talkcity.com/spiritcir/lynmari/index.html

[Guest guest]

...

Good post! I learned this from a counselor and meditation teacher I saw 3

years ago. Did a LOT of work with him but it was worth it. Getting real

with yourself is pretty powerful. My example of what you're saying is this;

When I'm having a cruddy day I decide to have a THOROUGHLY, totally, cruddy,

the cruddiest I can have, day! Once I mastered the idea and let myself do

it, I found I usually felt better! Thus began my learning of accepting and

embracing all my emotions and experiences. I'm going to take a look for the

book. Thanks!

CUL,

Ruthie

===========================

Ruthie Cunliffe K2ZQ

ruthie@...

http://www.cunliffegroup.com/ruthie/

experimental web cam: http://www.cunliffegroup.com/ruthie/spy/

>From: Andy24747@... (A. )

>

>Here is some food for thought from a book that I'm reading

>called- " Walking in Beauty " it's about the spiritual wisdom of Dick

>Olney-

>When you feel bad, if you allow yourself to feel worse, you begin to

>feel better

>

>It is refusing to experience an emotion that keeps it with you. To

>expereince it is to let go of it.

>

>Do not ever be afraid of feeling. Embrace them. They are the way you

>know you are alive and real.

>

>and my favorite- anguish is the pain you feel when you try not to feel

>sorrow.

>

>

>~››~››~››~››~››~››~››~››~›

>Success is not measured by how well we deal with plan " A " but by how

>well we deal with plan " B " .

>‹‹§‹‹§‹‹§‹‹§‹‹§‹‹§‹‹§‹‹§

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Ray, All,

I'm pleased to see that at least someone on the list can acknowledge being

angry and irritable. Who would think chronic pain & losing control of your

life would make someone a little crabby? And your having limits due to

chronic pain certainly affects people in your family/ close relationships.

In fact, the more analytic views on causes of depression tie it to anger.

Depression has been considered anger turned against ones' self. So here we

are at the next level in our little exploration of depression. I guess we

have to include anger in problems we live with.

Ken

t 11:45 AM 8/27/98 -0400, you wrote:

>

>

>Ruthie,

>Yes, I have similar side-effects with the Serzone. When I first started

>taking it and anytime I have increase dosage upwards I got a " high "

>within 30 minutes. That phenomena wore off within two days each time.

>But I can tell when it is time for another dose of Serzone by the

>increase in irritability and pain. I experience lots of anger at the

>pain which is very frustrating. Who do you yell at when it is your own

>body that is giving you fits? The Serzone seems to control those

>feelings most of the time. I am steadily increasing dosage upwards.

>Just started 200 mg. BID. I'm trying to find correct level without

>overdosing by going up 50 mg every two to three weeks. I do have dry

>mouth with the Serzone, but not the constant hunger I had with the

>Elavil (amitryptyline). Nor does it seem to make me sleepy during the

>day, though it definitely helps me achieve deep sleep for several hours

>longer than before.

>

>As to other side effects: Yes it does have side effects very similar to

>others antidepressants, just not as frequent or severe, at least for me.

>

>Hope this helps.

>Ray

>

>

>Ruthie wrote: I stopped taking it (Elavil) because it was

>>driving me nuts with a cycle like this: I'd take a dose, about an hour

>and

>>a half later I'd get the jitters....then that would subside in about

>two

>>hours and then two hours later I'd come CRASHING down.... then time for

>>another dose and the cycle would start again. My Dr. seemed to think

>this

>>was a rather odd experience but I chose to stop the medicine, with her

>>guidance, because of it. It sure sounds like this medicine is working

>well

>>for you and I'm wondering if you have any sort of side effect like

>this???

>>I know that Serzone is supposed to be just about side-effect free...not

>like

>>the SSRI drugs (Serzone isn't exactly a SSRI)..and that's why the Dr.

>wanted

>>me to try it instead of anything else. I did get some dry mouth but

>that's

>>not a big deal for me, it wasn't TOO bad. Your report of how it's

>helping

>>you makes me wonder if perhaps my up and down cycle was more from the

>anemia

>>I was dealing with than the Serzone!

>

>

>

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