Guest guest Posted January 8, 2002 Report Share Posted January 8, 2002 Dear Lucy, He needs to keep off the purines (e.g. pork products, shell fish) and also avoid oxalic acid-containing plants like spinach, rubarb and strawberries. Alcohol is, of course, a big 'no no' - I doubt whether his system has time to fully recover from one weekend bout to the next. Does his gout flare following drinking bouts ? Your choice of herbs seems spot on. I find Bogbean helpful in most joint pains, though I know it's one of the endangered species. Have you thought of a topical application - a cooling anti-inflammatory such as Calendula, perhaps ? All the best, Choudhury MNIMH claire.choudhury.01@... > Re: gout > > > Does anyone have any good dietary advice for patients > with gout. The patient is 34 year old male who is a > heavy weekend drinker of guiness and bitter, and does > not seem willing to stop, during the week he does not > drink alcohol and takes lots of exercise and drinks > lots of water. He also has occasional gallbladder > pain. Herbs i have given are Tarax rad, Cardus, Apium > and Filipendula, any advice would be appreciated > Thanks > lucy > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2002 Report Share Posted January 8, 2002 Hi Lucy As pointed out a low purine diet is advisable here & the alcohol is really doing him more harm than good (although I'm sure he won't be terribly keen to hear that). Other suggestions = Urtica (herba) and Cynara scolymus, which, like Urtica, has traditional use in the treatment of gout, possibly due to increased urate excretion via the biliary tract. My trusty nutrition book tells me that pantothenic acid is necessary for the conversion of uric acid into urea and ammonia, and many gout sufferers seem to be deficient in this vitamin. Ergo a wholefood diet is to be recommended, along with beansprouts, avocado's, nuts and seeds etc. Finally I found an old remedy for treating the pain of gout which goes as follows:- Take a plain, raw, unpeeled potato. Quarter it and boil it in seven cups of water for 30 minutes. Cool, strain the liquid and drink several cups at a time. Apparently the pain is supposed to subside within minutes. I'm really not sure how that works but if your patient wants to give it a go, do let us know how he gets on. Best wishes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2002 Report Share Posted January 9, 2002 I've also found that a number of the gout patients I had were drinking enormous amounts of tea 14- 15 cups a day, this seemed to be a bit chicken and egg in that it was possible the tea drinking was causing absorption problems and therefore leading to deficiencies or is it the result of the body trying to protect the gut from too high an intake of potentially damaging foodstuffs. At any rate the tea drinking was stopped, over period of about 2 weeks and in each case the gout improved dramatically. With this chap the alcohol is a real problem, I have to admit I'd be quirt brutal and suggest that there is not point in taking herbs and all the other things if he's going to continue to drink, he's wasting his time and money. Just one approach, provided of course you've spent some time explaining it all to him and he's had chance to consider the options but if no changes after two or three visits then I'm afraid I'd say not much point in coming. Re: gout > > > > > > Does anyone have any good dietary advice for patients > > with gout. The patient is 34 year old male who is a > > heavy weekend drinker of guiness and bitter, and does > > not seem willing to stop, during the week he does not > > drink alcohol and takes lots of exercise and drinks > > lots of water. He also has occasional gallbladder > > pain. Herbs i have given are Tarax rad, Cardus, Apium > > and Filipendula, any advice would be appreciated > > Thanks > > lucy > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2002 Report Share Posted January 9, 2002 I have to agree with the comments about not changing anything, drinking and gout. It really is better if people want to drink in moderation and avoid gout to take Allopurinol. Its about choices. It may depend on the age of the person too. I recently had a patient who thought she was getting recurrent cystitis. She had seen her GP who had never had her urine checked. She had had repeated prescriptions of antibiotics and kept some at home " in case " . She also had joint pains. I examined a urine sample under the microscope when she thought she had cystitis.......no bacteria and no white cells but crystals. I did a blood test for uric acid and it was raised. She is in her late seventies and her GP had never thought to look. She was started on Allopurinol because she preferred to...the purist/naturopath in me might like to try the other way but she is so much better, her joint pains have gone and antibiotics are no longer used. I am addressing the potential damage caused here...maybe I might persuade her to give the Apium and others a go later and try without the Allopurinol but I doubt it, she is 70 something and happy. Some people don't want to take any drugs, some people would not touch alcohol, others with gout may like to have a social drink...they have to decide which way to go. There are botanicals that can help, dietary changes are needed but if they choose to compromise then Allopurinol and a good diet and not excessive alcohol gives them that. lind Blackwell ND MNIMH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2002 Report Share Posted January 10, 2002 From: lucy vertue >Does anyone have any good dietary advice for patients with gout. The patient is 34 year old male who is a >heavy weekend drinker of guiness and bitter, and does >not seem willing to stop, during the week he does not >drink alcohol and takes lots of exercise and drinks >lots of water. He also has occasional gallbladder >pain. Herbs i have given are Tarax rad, Cardus, Apium >and Filipendula Dear Lucy, Low purine diet Avoid high protein, high purine (red) meats and offal, oily fish incl. sardines, anchovies, shellfish; yeast, fructose (I have read somewhere that some types of gout involve a problem with fructose metabolism), Vit C, niacin (competes with uric acid for excretion), alcohol, coffee, tea Moderate/Small amounts of asparagus, pulses, cauliflower, mushrooms, oatmeal, spinach, whole grain cereals, white fish, poultry, sugar Plenty of cherries, bilberries all red and purple berries.Drink plenty of water. Avoid diuretics, asprin, dehydration. I wonder if alcohol's diuretic effect plays a part in exacerbating the gout - and same with tea and coffee. A component of soya, daidzin,apparently delays absorption of alc from stomach, decreases intoxification effect and supresses desire for alc. Likewise kuzu, Pueraria lobata, which also stimulates the metabolism of alc ( bowl of kuzu gruel is good for morning-after binge symptoms ). From " What Doctors dont tell you " " An often overlooked though long established cause of gout is lead poisoning (Ballieres Clin Rheumatology, 1989; 3:51-61; Toxicol, 1992:73:127-46)where the kidneys may be failing to excrete excess lead... daily doses of Calcium 1.5 g and Magnesium 700mg can help draw lead out of the system. " Herbs for gout: Arctium, Apium, Guaiacum... " I am sure there are herbs that will help to draw lead from the system. For eg garlic helps with mercury poisoning and Rumex seems to have the ability to push heavy metals out through the skin (recollect Hein Zeylstra talking about a patient on Rumex which pushed aluminium out onto the skin!) The encyclopedia of natural medicine by Murray and Pizzorno has a good chapter on gout. Regards, Morag Chacksfield BSc, MNMIH moragchacksfield@... _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2002 Report Share Posted January 21, 2002 Dear Lucy, a slightly belated comment on gout. I have found on numerous occasions that aspirin is a very common precipitant of gout and the patients never think about mentioning it as a " drug " . Also switch to whisky (strangely enough) in moderate ammounts from red wine often does the trick (of course, no alcohol is the best). This is a purely empirical observation, I wonder if anybody else notice such correlation. Newton > I have to agree with the comments about not changing anything, drinking and > gout. It really is better if people want to drink in moderation and avoid > gout to take Allopurinol. Its about choices. It may depend on the age of > the person too. I recently had a patient who thought she was getting > recurrent cystitis. She had seen her GP who had never had her urine > checked. She had had repeated prescriptions of antibiotics and kept some at > home " in case " . She also had joint pains. I examined a urine sample under > the microscope when she thought she had cystitis.......no bacteria and no > white cells but crystals. I did a blood test for uric acid and it was > raised. She is in her late seventies and her GP had never thought to look. > She was started on Allopurinol because she preferred to...the > purist/naturopath in me might like to try the other way but she is so much > better, her joint pains have gone and antibiotics are no longer used. I am > addressing the potential damage caused here...maybe I might persuade her to > give the Apium and others a go later and try without the Allopurinol but I > doubt it, she is 70 something and happy. Some people don't want to take any > drugs, some people would not touch alcohol, others with gout may like to > have a social drink...they have to decide which way to go. There are > botanicals that can help, dietary changes are needed but if they choose to > compromise then Allopurinol and a good diet and not excessive alcohol gives > them that. > lind Blackwell ND MNIMH > > > List Owner > > > > Graham White, MNIMH > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2002 Report Share Posted January 21, 2002 with regard to aspirin precipitating a gout attack , from what I remember salicylates are generally contra indicated here because they use the same pathway of elimination as uric acid.mind you it might be a figment of my imagination as I cant find any such reference in my old pharmacology notes ! best wishes , Annette Wass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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