Re: Protein isolates

[Guest guest]

Quoting Idol <Idol@...>:

> Tom-

>

> And even the abstracts are often misreported, but the vast majority of

> that

> 99% of people isn't to blame for not reading the actual studies --

> they're

> written in Obfuscatese, but more importantly, they're generally very

> expensive to read.

For those who can read one or more dialects of Obfuscatese, most

universities should have medical journals available in their libraries,

which are often open to the general public.

--

Berg

bberg@...

[Guest guest]

Kathy, I don't mean to take sides, and I totally respect your opinion

and what you're trying to say, but I must say that I agree with

Chris's arguments here. Many of your points are convoluted and/or

illogical, and he's taken great effort to clarify his points in

response to your criticism. I don't see any reason to press the issue

of whether he originally implied that whey powder is NT.

Tom

> <Kathy,

>

> You'll have to forgive me, but I really cannot understand how you can

> possibly be seriously saying this. Price put cream in a centrifuge,

> centrifuged it, >>

>

> Chris-

>

> You'll have to forgive me but i don't understand how you can keep

running

> off on tangents that have little to do with what the original

question was

> ( do you plan on politics?) and is the extent of my interest. Here

again

> is your reply below.

>

> <<'s reply doesn't even mention NT. It continues to discuss

processing,

> which is what I believe the issue was.>>

>

> Perhaps you might want to read s response again???

>

> -----

> in reply to Judith:

>

> >NT is founded on the principle that much processing increases nutrient

> value.

> > For example sprouting, soaking, and cooking, and fermenting.

>

> :

> Yes, but these kinds of processing are fundamentally different from

most of

> the mechanisms used in agribusiness, so it's a pretty good rule of

thumb to

> avoid any modern processing.

>

> Also, none of the NT-style forms of processing involve such a great

degree

> of refining.

> >>>

>

> <<Until someone elucidates a fundamental difference, we might want

to simply

> drop this particular issue.>>

>

> If you would stop introducing dead trojan horses that draws away

from the

> original point i would be more than happy to drop the issue. But your

> original reply was specific to how DW compared to and was

appropriate to

> NT. I simply feel that it isn't. Doesn't mean that DW or vitamins or any

> other supplement is bad, but leaving the impression that it is NT

seems to

> be something that you really want to be true and if that makes you happy

> <shrug> its OK with me. Your opinion is just that, your opinion,

and to

> belittle my opinion and telling me " that your right " is nothing more

than

> rude.

>

>

> Kathy A

[Guest guest]

Quoting Tom <cassiusdio@...>:

> Kathy, I don't mean to take sides, and I totally respect your opinion

> and what you're trying to say, but I must say that I agree with

> Chris's arguments here. Many of your points are convoluted and/or

> illogical, and he's taken great effort to clarify his points in

> response to your criticism. I don't see any reason to press the issue

> of whether he originally implied that whey powder is NT.

No doubt we'll have another visit from his alter-ego shortly.

--

Berg

bberg@...

[Guest guest]

I was at my grocery co-op the other day and looked for whey protein

powders. They didn't have DW but they had their own brand which looks

really good. Better than DW. Not as cheap but reasonable. $16.95 for a

pound, but I don't think they had any larger sizes, which is unfortunate.

Here are the specs:

*****************************************

INGREDIENTS: Micro-filtered and ion-exchanged whey protein isolates†,

hydrolyzed whey protein concentrate, natural vanilla flavor, free-form

amino acids* (L-glutamine, L-leucine, L-isoleucine, L-valine), stevia.

†Naturally supplying important immune-supporting proteins, including

B-lactoglobulin, A-lactalbumin, bovine serum albumin, immunoglobulin,

and lactoferrin.

*Each serving fortified with an additional 100mg L-glutamine and 300mg

branched-chain amino acids [the other three].

Our proprietary process uses only natural enzymes and high-quality

membrane filters to separate the whey and preserve the essential

nutrients. Due to the low-temperature processing, our whey supports

ceullular glutathione levels, one of nature's important antioxidants.

This state-of-the-art processing creates a complete spectrum of whey

peptides, improving nitrogen retention, supporting immune system

health, and providing antioxidant protection.

NUTRITION FACTS:

Serving Size: 21.5g

~21 servings per container (1 pound)

Calories: 90

Fat: <1g

Carbs: 2g

Fiber: 0g

Sugars: <1g

Protein: 18g

Made from non-rBGH milk.

***********************************************

What do you think, et al.?

Also, do you mix your powder with just water before the

workout, and water plus honey after the workout, or what? I need to

know the best way to take this. Thanks!

Tom

> In a message dated 12/17/03 1:28:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> Idol@c... writes:

>

> > How much do you pay for DW? I notice that the LEF charges the

same for DW

> > as they do for their own whey powder, which IMO is substantially

> > superior. It's about $25 per 1kg bottle at the member rate, and

each 20g

> > scoop serving has 18g of protein.

>

> I pay $29 for a 5 pound bottle, which has roughly 1.5 Kg of total

protein, 95

> servings of 17.5 g. DW claims to be the only one on the market

using UF,

> which they claim maximizes lactoferrin, immunoglobulins, etc, more

than other

> filtration process.

>

> The list has to be old, because DW does *not* use ion exchange

filtration,

> listed in what you cited, and it is not listed in the ingredients

list on my DW.

>

> It seems slightly safer than DW in some respects I suspect are

minor; DW

> seems a little better equipped to maximize workout recovery and to

maximize

> workout performance because of the specificity of some of the peptides.

>

> Thanks for the tip. Where do you get LEF from?

>

> Chris

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Tom, the 1st two ingredients sound questionable. protein isolates

and hydrolyzed are words that should trigger that " back on the

shelf " response. The rest of it sounds ...less processed. What is

the difference between 'A-' and 'B-' enzymes? Is that like 'dl-'

and 'l-' tocopherols ? (dl being produced in a lab and not as

absorbable / possibly damaging - as natural vitamin e?

Back to that NT principal: Unless it's raw, " instant " is a shortcut

to the hospital.

....sigh...sorry. Cooking is work. So is love.

-blair

--- In , " Tom " <cassiusdio@g...>

wrote:

> I was at my grocery co-op the other day and looked for whey protein

> powders. They didn't have DW but they had their own brand which

looks

> really good. Better than DW. Not as cheap but reasonable. $16.95

for a

> pound, but I don't think they had any larger sizes, which is

unfortunate.

>

> Here are the specs:

>

> *****************************************

> INGREDIENTS: Micro-filtered and ion-exchanged whey protein

isolates†,

> hydrolyzed whey protein concentrate, natural vanilla flavor, free-

form

> amino acids* (L-glutamine, L-leucine, L-isoleucine, L-valine),

stevia.

>

> †Naturally supplying important immune-supporting proteins,

including

> B-lactoglobulin, A-lactalbumin, bovine serum albumin,

immunoglobulin,

> and lactoferrin.

>

> *Each serving fortified with an additional 100mg L-glutamine and

300mg

> branched-chain amino acids [the other three].

>

> Our proprietary process uses only natural enzymes and high-quality

> membrane filters to separate the whey and preserve the essential

> nutrients. Due to the low-temperature processing, our whey supports

> ceullular glutathione levels, one of nature's important

antioxidants.

> This state-of-the-art processing creates a complete spectrum of

whey

> peptides, improving nitrogen retention, supporting immune system

> health, and providing antioxidant protection.

>

> NUTRITION FACTS:

> Serving Size: 21.5g

> ~21 servings per container (1 pound)

>

> Calories: 90

> Fat: <1g

> Carbs: 2g

> Fiber: 0g

> Sugars: <1g

> Protein: 18g

>

>

> Made from non-rBGH milk.

>

> ***********************************************

>

>

> What do you think, et al.?

>

> Also, do you mix your powder with just water before the

> workout, and water plus honey after the workout, or what? I need to

> know the best way to take this. Thanks!

>

> Tom

>

>

> --- In , ChrisMasterjohn@a...

wrote:

> > In a message dated 12/17/03 1:28:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> > Idol@c... writes:

> >

> > > How much do you pay for DW? I notice that the LEF charges the

> same for DW

> > > as they do for their own whey powder, which IMO is

substantially

> > > superior. It's about $25 per 1kg bottle at the member rate,

and

> each 20g

> > > scoop serving has 18g of protein.

> >

]

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/18/03 3:00:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,

cassiusdio@... writes:

> What do you think, et al.?

I wouldn't say it looks " better " than DW. It's almost equivalent to DW, only

the processing is inferior. (Ion-exchange and microfiltration are inferior

to ultrafiltration, from what I have read).

>

> Also, do you mix your powder with just water before the

> workout, and water plus honey after the workout, or what? I need to

> know the best way to take this. Thanks!

Just water both times. I eat the sugar directly afterwards. Raw honey is

delish right off the spoon.

Needless to say, I disagree that " hydrolyzed " should elicit a " back to the

shelf response. "

DW has the following ingredients, btw:

APT Full-Spectrum Whey Peptides (modified MW and partially predigested

(hydrolyzed)), whey protein concentrate (14% glycomacropeptides) 100%

non-denatured whey protein isolate (98% pure protein dry basis), whey glutamine

peptides, l-taurine, l-leucine, l-phenylalanine, Glutasynth (D-glucose,

l-glutamine, oligofructose, glutamine peptides), natural vanilla flavor,

lecithin,

ZinMag-6 (magnesium oxide, magnesium aspartate, zinc aspartate, pyridoxine),

cellulose gum, citric acid, xanthan gum, sodium alginate, sodium chloride,

stevia,

annatto, natural vitamin E, lactoperoxidase.

Cellulose gum, xanthan gum, and sodium alginate might be questionable.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/18/03 1:26:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,

cassiusdio@... writes:

> Exactly what I was going to say: the abstract and reported results or

> conclusion of a study are subject to the researchers' interpretation,

> and if they have bias, it will probably show up. Ninety-nine percent

> of people who hear about or cite a study never actually read the study

> and just read the abstract or a dumbed-down synopsis reported in a

> periodical, so the study's " results " are accepted readily.

>

> Tom

>

>

>

> >Chris-

> >

> >The mere fact of double-blindedness is no protection at all, for two

> >reasons. First, bias can be introduced into the design of the

> study, and

> >second, bias can be introduced into the reporting of the results, peer

> >review notwithstanding. It happens all the time.

You guys are right. Come to think of it, I have no idea why I said that.

I've encountered the same phenomenon. I've looked through abstracts before and

often found the conclusion in the abstract to contradict the abstract itself,

without even touching the subject of the abstract being at odds with the

actual study.

Chris