Re: Gas/WD/milk/kombucha/sleeping

[Guest guest]

,

First, glad to hear from you! Have missed the two of you.

I DID notice an increase in gas on the Warrior Diet, though digestion has

never been one of my strong points. (I complain about gas since I've been doing

NT, but I used to be sprawled on the floor in various yoga positions trying to

relieve pain).

I had really bad gas when I was a vegetarian, especially when I would go to

bed. Something about laying down seemed to release it. When I started WD, a

whole host of things got better, and this got worse. I had gas when I'd go to

bed approaching that of when I was vegetarian.

The first thing I did a couple months ago was to stop kefiring my milk. My

reasoning was that, first, kefir is full of CO2, or mine is anyway, and is very

thick, and I figured part of the gas could be the pre-existing CO2 rather

than fermenting in the gut. While it is easier to digest in some respects due

to

the lactose, I think the thickness and hydrophobic proteins make it sit in my

stomach longer when a half gallon of it is part of a 4500 calorie meal.

I just recently (a week ago) eliminated milk completely from my diet. I'm

going to try Probiogurt, the 30-hour goat yogurt, when I get a chance. My gas

problem has almost completely gone away. However, it is now difficult for me

to get enough food, and I've been waking up very hungry (don't need a meal,

just some coconut oil). More importantly, I've been having absolutely crazy

problems sleeping. Several nights in the past week I've gone to bed at 11 or

so,

and not been able to fall asleep at all until 7 am. Yesterday, I got the

first canker sore I've had in over a year. I suspect the problem is a lack of

calcium. I normally drink a half gallon of milk a day, and I've been getting

calcium primarily from 2-3 tbsp mollases a day lately. Yesterday I took two 1/4

tsp servings of coral calcium (my mom's) in addition to the mollases (supplies

1000 mg), and I fell asleep immediately when I went to bed.

So it's unfortunate that milk seems to give me both benefits and problems.

In any case, my gas problem has gone from big to virtually gone. Granted I'm

eating much less food now-- I'm on a starvation diet of probably 3000

calories a day (less?)-- but I'm probably eating a similarly sized warrior meal

to

others on the diet.

Twice for the sake of trying to get enough food I've eaten a pint of quality

ice cream with my meal (supplies about 1000 calories with no cooking required

to make up for the 2000 I got from milk), and it's given me very moderate

rumbling/gas, but now I suspect that was the carageenan in it (which, by the

way,

ruins the texture of it, IMO).

The one other thing I've found to give gas problems is kombucha. I'm going

to experiment with it, as it seems that if I drink it on an empty stomach

without eating food soon after there is no problem. I think the problem is that

it

is high in bacteria, and when I drink it in conjunction with food the

bacteria and yeasts in the drink just start fermenting the food right then and

there.

Sorry for the unnecessarily long answer, but yes, the larger meal does seem

to aggravate the problem of gas IF there is something in the big meal that is

posing a problem. Especially with the amount of food I eat, the more food the

harder the stress on the digestive system, and I think that probably applies

even if there is just one small part of the meal causing a problem, the sheer

amount of the non-problem foods put extra stress.

I suspect the chips ( by the way, they weren't the soy ones were they?) and

whatnot, and lack of fermented veggies, plays a part.

I find the addition of raw honey to be helpful. Probably a combined action

of the enzymes and the antibiotics to prevent fermentation.

By the way , have you completed the article on the Joys of Smoking you

mentioned yet?

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/6/04 9:43:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, katja@...

writes:

> have you tried eating more often but much smaller quantities? it might be

> (or it might not be, i'm just throwing it out there) that you don't have to

> totally give up milk, but that you're overworking your gut, and if you give

> it smaller tasks at a time, you could go back to having some milk?

Right, but that would destroy the whole point of the Warrior Diet, which is

to eat larger quantities less often ;-)

There are good reasons for this; search the archives for Warrior Diet and see

www.warriordiet.com .

The fact is that I don't digest milk well. I need to figure out what

specifically I react to. It could be the lactose, and it might be that kefir

just

doesn't eliminate the lactose. I'm going to try the lactose-free yogurt and see

how I react. It might also be that I need to do get my digestive system in

order before I eat foods that are not very easy to digest. I think I might

have pyroluria, in which case fixing that would be necessary as well. Going to

order the test this week.

Chris

[Guest guest]

hey, chris - i know you're not asking for advice here, but hey - i have

some!

have you tried eating more often but much smaller quantities? it might be

(or it might not be, i'm just throwing it out there) that you don't have to

totally give up milk, but that you're overworking your gut, and if you give

it smaller tasks at a time, you could go back to having some milk?

At 08:25 AM 1/6/2004, you wrote:

>,

>

>First, glad to hear from you! Have missed the two of you.

>

>I DID notice an increase in gas on the Warrior Diet, though digestion has

>never been one of my strong points. (I complain about gas since I've been

>doing

>NT, but I used to be sprawled on the floor in various yoga positions

>trying to

>relieve pain).

>

>I had really bad gas when I was a vegetarian, especially when I would go to

>bed. Something about laying down seemed to release it. When I started WD, a

>whole host of things got better, and this got worse. I had gas when I'd

>go to

>bed approaching that of when I was vegetarian.

>

>The first thing I did a couple months ago was to stop kefiring my milk. My

>reasoning was that, first, kefir is full of CO2, or mine is anyway, and is

>very

>thick, and I figured part of the gas could be the pre-existing CO2 rather

>than fermenting in the gut. While it is easier to digest in some respects

>due to

>the lactose, I think the thickness and hydrophobic proteins make it sit in my

>stomach longer when a half gallon of it is part of a 4500 calorie meal.

>

>I just recently (a week ago) eliminated milk completely from my diet. I'm

>going to try Probiogurt, the 30-hour goat yogurt, when I get a chance. My

>gas

>problem has almost completely gone away. However, it is now difficult for me

>to get enough food, and I've been waking up very hungry (don't need a meal,

>just some coconut oil). More importantly, I've been having absolutely crazy

>problems sleeping. Several nights in the past week I've gone to bed at 11

>or so,

>and not been able to fall asleep at all until 7 am. Yesterday, I got the

>first canker sore I've had in over a year. I suspect the problem is a

>lack of

>calcium. I normally drink a half gallon of milk a day, and I've been getting

>calcium primarily from 2-3 tbsp mollases a day lately. Yesterday I took

>two 1/4

>tsp servings of coral calcium (my mom's) in addition to the mollases

>(supplies

>1000 mg), and I fell asleep immediately when I went to bed.

>

>So it's unfortunate that milk seems to give me both benefits and problems.

>

>In any case, my gas problem has gone from big to virtually gone. Granted I'm

>eating much less food now-- I'm on a starvation diet of probably 3000

>calories a day (less?)-- but I'm probably eating a similarly sized warrior

>meal to

>others on the diet.

>

>Twice for the sake of trying to get enough food I've eaten a pint of quality

>ice cream with my meal (supplies about 1000 calories with no cooking required

>to make up for the 2000 I got from milk), and it's given me very moderate

>rumbling/gas, but now I suspect that was the carageenan in it (which, by

>the way,

>ruins the texture of it, IMO).

>

>The one other thing I've found to give gas problems is kombucha. I'm going

>to experiment with it, as it seems that if I drink it on an empty stomach

>without eating food soon after there is no problem. I think the problem

>is that it

>is high in bacteria, and when I drink it in conjunction with food the

>bacteria and yeasts in the drink just start fermenting the food right then

>and there.

>

>Sorry for the unnecessarily long answer, but yes, the larger meal does seem

>to aggravate the problem of gas IF there is something in the big meal that is

>posing a problem. Especially with the amount of food I eat, the more food

>the

>harder the stress on the digestive system, and I think that probably applies

>even if there is just one small part of the meal causing a problem, the sheer

>amount of the non-problem foods put extra stress.

>

>I suspect the chips ( by the way, they weren't the soy ones were they?) and

>whatnot, and lack of fermented veggies, plays a part.

>

>I find the addition of raw honey to be helpful. Probably a combined action

>of the enzymes and the antibiotics to prevent fermentation.

>

>By the way , have you completed the article on the Joys of Smoking you

>mentioned yet?

>

>Chris

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/6/04 12:49:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Idol@... writes:

> In fact kefir does a much poorer job of eliminating lactose than

> yoghurt. Yoghurt is effectively lactose-free after 24 hours of incubation

> at proper temperature. Kefir takes up to four days or even more, depending

> on temperature. I've found that in order to get rid of enough lactose, I

> have to make kefir that's much too sour for my tastes.

How do you judge whether there is lactose in it? Have you come across any

reliable information on this?

Chris

[Guest guest]

Chris-

In fact kefir does a much poorer job of eliminating lactose than

yoghurt. Yoghurt is effectively lactose-free after 24 hours of incubation

at proper temperature. Kefir takes up to four days or even more, depending

on temperature. I've found that in order to get rid of enough lactose, I

have to make kefir that's much too sour for my tastes.

>It could be the lactose, and it might be that kefir just

>doesn't eliminate the lactose.

-

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 08:25:34 EST

ChrisMasterjohn@... wrote:

>,

>

>First, glad to hear from you! Have missed the two of you.

Hi

Nice to know I was missed by somebody!

>

>I DID notice an increase in gas on the Warrior Diet, though digestion has

>never been one of my strong points. (I complain about gas since I've been

doing

>NT, but I used to be sprawled on the floor in various yoga positions trying to

>relieve pain).

I never had a problem until recently. But I think it is because I went

back to eating large meals too quickly after my fruit/fasting episode.

>

>I had really bad gas when I was a vegetarian, especially when I would go to

>bed. Something about laying down seemed to release it. When I started WD, a

>whole host of things got better, and this got worse. I had gas when I'd go to

>bed approaching that of when I was vegetarian.

I don't remember having much gas when I was a vegetarian. But that was

quite some time ago so I could have easily forgotten. But I remember

giving up vegetarianism because I thought it had no physical or

theological basis, and was more about ideology than any real health

concerns. If gas was a problem I think I would have remembered that.

>

>The first thing I did a couple months ago was to stop kefiring my milk. My

>reasoning was that, first, kefir is full of CO2, or mine is anyway, and is very

>thick, and I figured part of the gas could be the pre-existing CO2 rather

>than fermenting in the gut. While it is easier to digest in some respects due

to

>the lactose, I think the thickness and hydrophobic proteins make it sit in my

>stomach longer when a half gallon of it is part of a 4500 calorie meal.

I normally drink a lot of kefir and it has never caused me any digestive

problems. I was actually thinking that part of my problem was the lack

of fermented foods, like kimchi and kefir.

>

>I just recently (a week ago) eliminated milk completely from my diet. I'm

>going to try Probiogurt, the 30-hour goat yogurt, when I get a chance. My gas

>problem has almost completely gone away. However, it is now difficult for me

>to get enough food, and I've been waking up very hungry (don't need a meal,

>just some coconut oil). More importantly, I've been having absolutely crazy

>problems sleeping. Several nights in the past week I've gone to bed at 11 or

so,

>and not been able to fall asleep at all until 7 am. Yesterday, I got the

>first canker sore I've had in over a year. I suspect the problem is a lack of

>calcium. I normally drink a half gallon of milk a day, and I've been getting

>calcium primarily from 2-3 tbsp mollases a day lately. Yesterday I took two

1/4

>tsp servings of coral calcium (my mom's) in addition to the mollases (supplies

>1000 mg), and I fell asleep immediately when I went to bed.

>

>So it's unfortunate that milk seems to give me both benefits and problems.

Couple of thoughts. It is my belief that very few people have a true

problem with milk. I haven't delved deeply into the subject but I would

*guess* that humans are not well adapted to cows milk, which is why

infinitely more people are able to tolerate goat, sheep, yak, horse milk,

etc.

I have never had a problem with raw goats milk, even poor quality goats

milk. But I have had a problem with raw cows milk. When I first started

getting cows milk from my supplier I had digestive problems. After we

worked on improving the quality (by increasing the soil fertility and

the quality of the feed) the digestive problems went away.

I think there are two issues with milk, soil fertility as reflected in

the feed and the type of animal. Organic and grass fed mean nothing in

terms of quality. Organic only tells you what isn't there, not whether

the food is high quality. And grass fed is of no use if the grass is of

poor quality.

I would suggest you read the online pamphlet at http://www.brixpage.com

and then buy yourself an inexpensive refractometer. It is very

empowering as it gives you an actual tool to measure the quality of your

food.

There are no set brix standards for milk (and brix as used in this

context does not mean sugar) but my problems with cows milk went away

when the brix read 13. Some have brixed milk as high as 20.

At any rate I would try that before giving up on milk entirely or

limiting yourself to 30 hour yogurt, although I'm thinking a 30 hour

yogurt from good quality milk might be the best of both worlds.

As for sleeping, the soporific quality of milk has been the subject of

several threads on some other lists that I am a part of. Some have

attributed it to the opoids/hormones found in milk designed to relax the

baby feeding on mothers milk.

>

>In any case, my gas problem has gone from big to virtually gone. Granted I'm

>eating much less food now-- I'm on a starvation diet of probably 3000

>calories a day (less?)-- but I'm probably eating a similarly sized warrior meal

to

>others on the diet.

Yowsa! Isn't that about a 2000 calorie drop for you on a daily basis or

am I not remembering one of your posts correctly?

>

>Twice for the sake of trying to get enough food I've eaten a pint of quality

>ice cream with my meal (supplies about 1000 calories with no cooking required

>to make up for the 2000 I got from milk), and it's given me very moderate

>rumbling/gas, but now I suspect that was the carageenan in it (which, by the

way,

>ruins the texture of it, IMO).

Ahem...not to speak out of hand,,,but we had some ice cream as well and

lets just say it wasn't NT compatible <grin>....it most definitely gave

me and someone else I know gas. Far be it for me though to tell on a

fellow NT'er, LOL! In fact, what that certain someone bought is still in

my freezer. Hmmm...I might go have some now <bsg>.

>

>The one other thing I've found to give gas problems is kombucha. I'm going

>to experiment with it, as it seems that if I drink it on an empty stomach

>without eating food soon after there is no problem. I think the problem is

that it

>is high in bacteria, and when I drink it in conjunction with food the

>bacteria and yeasts in the drink just start fermenting the food right then and

there.

Hmmmm....I have never had kombucha. I'm looking into EM and belong to

several of the EM lists.

>

>Sorry for the unnecessarily long answer, but yes, the larger meal does seem

>to aggravate the problem of gas IF there is something in the big meal that is

>posing a problem.

Yes I think your qualification hits it right on the head, at least for

Suze.

Especially with the amount of food I eat, the more food the

>harder the stress on the digestive system, and I think that probably applies

>even if there is just one small part of the meal causing a problem, the sheer

>amount of the non-problem foods put extra stress.

Ori seems to think that digestion becomes much more efficient with the

bigger meal. Up until this point that has been my experience.

>

>I suspect the chips ( by the way, they weren't the soy ones were they?) and

>whatnot, and lack of fermented veggies, plays a part.

Yep, I'm with you here. Soy? SOy? SOY?! Heck, we weren't that bad, lol.

>

>I find the addition of raw honey to be helpful. Probably a combined action

>of the enzymes and the antibiotics to prevent fermentation.

Forgot about adding honey for its help with digestion

>

>By the way , have you completed the article on the Joys of Smoking you

>mentioned yet?

On the Pleasures of Smoking - a title I stole from an article by the

19th century Southern Presbyterian Theologian Henry Thornwell. I

have never actually read the article, but I imagine the very erudite Mr.

Thornwell (by the way, I'm simply tipping my hat to his obvious gifts

and ability - I do not agree with his theology) was dealing with a

problem that vexes Christianity from time to time (especially in the

West); that is the influence of Christians who think other Christians

shouldn't smoke, drink, dance, or chew or go with girls who do.

Never mind all the evidence to the contrary from Holy Tradition - I

especially like the passage in Judges 9 where it speaks of wine cheering

the heart of both God and man.

At any rate, to answer your question, no I am not quite done. It is

actually a rewrite of an article I did a few years back where I

basically said the normally stated " dogma " against smoking as being

unhealthy was pure baloney. That such a stance was not nearly as cut and

dried as its proponents would have you believe.

I will post it as soon as I'm done. If the magazine I am submitting it

too buys it I will be smoking a few Cubans in celebration. I will have

to find someway to spend that very large check I will receive as a

result <wg>.

Good to hear from you.

take care,

Stupid Vogue

http://tinyurl.com/39juj

ps. love the way you made clear in the subject line what you were

talking about. Nothing like good posting etiquette. Thanks.

[Guest guest]

see comments below

On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 12:48:20 -0500

Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

>Chris-

>

>In fact kefir does a much poorer job of eliminating lactose than

>yoghurt. Yoghurt is effectively lactose-free after 24 hours of incubation

>at proper temperature. Kefir takes up to four days or even more, depending

>on temperature. I've found that in order to get rid of enough lactose, I

>have to make kefir that's much too sour for my tastes.

>

>>It could be the lactose, and it might be that kefir just

>>doesn't eliminate the lactose.

>

>

>

>-

,

Thats very interesting. Is your yogurt " raw " . By the way that coffee

shop you mentioned in another post sounds heavenly.

Stupid Vogue

http://tinyurl.com/39juj

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/7/04 1:47:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,

slethnobotanist@... writes:

> I don't remember having much gas when I was a vegetarian. But that was

> quite some time ago so I could have easily forgotten. But I remember

> giving up vegetarianism because I thought it had no physical or

> theological basis, and was more about ideology than any real health

> concerns. If gas was a problem I think I would have remembered that.

Did you eat soy? I ate lots of tofu, veggie burgers, soy flour muffins,

Tofurkey, etc. My girlfriend-at-the-time, who ate much like I did, and I, would

go to bed together and then just fart for a half hour. It was actually comical

it was so absurd.

> I normally drink a lot of kefir and it has never caused me any digestive

> problems. I was actually thinking that part of my problem was the lack

> of fermented foods, like kimchi and kefir.

I might try it again... my grains are in my fridge, if they still work. When

I first switched to straight milk, it seemed like a refreshing change and I

thought I was digesting it better, but that impression didn't last long.

> Couple of thoughts. It is my belief that very few people have a true

> problem with milk. I haven't delved deeply into the subject but I would

> *guess* that humans are not well adapted to cows milk, which is why

> infinitely more people are able to tolerate goat, sheep, yak, horse milk,

> etc.

I *suspect* this as well... but I have no local source of goat's milk. If I

did, I would switch in a second. The pasteurized goat's milk in the store is

gross, but raw goat's milk I've had, while I like the taste of cow's a little

better, is good.

> There are no set brix standards for milk (and brix as used in this

> context does not mean sugar) but my problems with cows milk went away

> when the brix read 13. Some have brixed milk as high as 20.

>

> At any rate I would try that before giving up on milk entirely or

> limiting yourself to 30 hour yogurt, although I'm thinking a 30 hour

> yogurt from good quality milk might be the best of both worlds.

Interesting. I might try it. I'm not planning on getting rid of milk

entirely, but I'm at least " fasting " from it for now, because I'm sick of having

chronically poor digestion. The Probiogurt, which I understand is sold

commercially (through mail order?) is made from goat milk, too.

>

> As for sleeping, the soporific quality of milk has been the subject of

> several threads on some other lists that I am a part of. Some have

> attributed it to the opoids/hormones found in milk designed to relax the

> baby feeding on mothers milk.

I might just take up smoking opium then.

> >In any case, my gas problem has gone from big to virtually gone. Granted

> I'm

> >eating much less food now-- I'm on a starvation diet of probably 3000

> >calories a day (less?)-- but I'm probably eating a similarly sized warrior

> meal to

> >others on the diet.

>

> Yowsa! Isn't that about a 2000 calorie drop for you on a daily basis or

> am I not remembering one of your posts correctly?

Yes. But the 5000-cal/day (actually a range from about 4800 to 5300) diet

was producing net weight *gain*, so I think I should be ok for a while without

actually *losing* weight. I'm basically eating whatever I can find to eat,

but milk made it so much easier, because all I had to do was drink it, and one

container was 2,000 calories. Potatoes soak up a lot of fat, so they help-- I

can fry two potatoes in at least 4 if not 6 tbsp coconut oil, which would

provide probably over 1000 calories. I'm going to start eating a lot of

(soaked)

oatmeal too, since I found an unopened bag in my pantry, which is a good

carrier for butter.

> Ori seems to think that digestion becomes much more efficient with the

> bigger meal. Up until this point that has been my experience.

I suspect that's probably true, *unless* there is some problem food for the

individual. Say, if Heidi was still eating gluten, would her digestion have

improved?

> On the Pleasures of Smoking - a title I stole from an article by the

> 19th century Southern Presbyterian Theologian Henry Thornwell. I

> have never actually read the article, but I imagine the very erudite Mr.

> Thornwell (by the way, I'm simply tipping my hat to his obvious gifts

> and ability - I do not agree with his theology) was dealing with a

> problem that vexes Christianity from time to time (especially in the

> West); that is the influence of Christians who think other Christians

> shouldn't smoke, drink, dance, or chew or go with girls who do.

Wait a second. Are you saying that God did not make pleasure and the

material world for the sake of entrapping man in evil?

> I will post it as soon as I'm done. If the magazine I am submitting it

> too buys it I will be smoking a few Cubans in celebration. I will have

> to find someway to spend that very large check I will receive as a

> result <wg>.

I look forward to reading it. In the meantime, is there any reading you

would suggest as a relatively objective view of the science behind the smoking

issue? There is a book or two recommended by junkscience.com that I thought of

reading.

I haven't smoked in about six years, but I've always thought the anti-tobacco

position was overblown, especially since most cigarettes consist of all kinds

of toxic additives. Now that I've read (from Sugar Blues) that different

types of curing can be responsible for different health values (something I

haven't looked into beyond that book), it appears there may be even *less* a

reason

to say tobacco per se is a health negative, or at least as bad as it's made

out to be.

I'd also like to hear your opinion, if you have one, on how smoking, and in

what quantities, would interact with an athletic lifestyle. On the one hand,

I'd expect the athleticism to protect the body from smoking damage; on the

other, I'd think that inhaling anything with CO in it would reduce the

efficiency

of the cardiovascular system.

>

> Good to hear from you.

Right back atcha.

Take care,

Chris

[Guest guest]

At 05:59 AM 1/7/2004, you wrote:

>Ori seems to think that digestion becomes much more efficient with the

>> bigger meal. Up until this point that has been my experience.

>

>I suspect that's probably true, *unless* there is some problem food for the

>individual. Say, if Heidi was still eating gluten, would her digestion have

>improved?

No, I can answer that easily! If I get a gluten food on the WD, I still

get the big D the next day, and a lot of nausea. Last time I

got something " bad " it was homemade wine that probably

had barley yeast in it, and I itched all the next day too. Now,

this wine was very well fermented and had also set

for a few years, so long fermentation didn't help either.

I have an IgA digestive reaction though, and that reacts

to homeopathic amounts of gluten. Folks that just don't

DIGEST it well would probably do a lot better on the WD.

I have had problems digesting, say, I big piece of fat steak

in the past, and now I don't.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

-

Yes, I make raw yoghurt from raw grassfed Jersey milk and cream. And yes,

McNulty's is (or at least was) paradise on earth. If you're a coffee

drinker and you're ever in Manhattan, I suggest heading down to the west

village and checking them out. They don't serve coffee, though; they just

sell beans, grounds, tea, and the accoutrements of the addiction. <g>

>Thats very interesting. Is your yogurt " raw " . By the way that coffee

>shop you mentioned in another post sounds heavenly.

-

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: <slethnobotanist@...>

> >

> >First, glad to hear from you! Have missed the two of you.

>

> Nice to know I was missed by somebody!

I second that. I don't know if you got the mail, but I pinged you

off-list a month or so ago to see if you were still alive.

> At any rate, to answer your question, no I am not quite done. It is

> actually a rewrite of an article I did a few years back where I

> basically said the normally stated " dogma " against smoking as being

> unhealthy was pure baloney. That such a stance was not nearly as cut

and

> dried as its proponents would have you believe.

I can believe that it may not be as bad as the anti-smoking lobby would

have us believe, but from an intuitive perspective, at least, it seems

as though inhaling large quantities of smoke should cause some

substantial oxidative damage. Is this wrong?

By the way, I'm usually pretty good about minding my own business, but

if there was a " Fisher " implied after " Suze " in your earlier posts, then

I am deeply, deeply confused. On the other hand, given that the

alternative is that you know more than one person with the unlikely name

of Suze, my model of reality could probably use some adjustment either

way.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/9/04 9:44:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> ------->i think that was my problem. and i think the tortilla chips

> were the main culprit. i had no idea i could pack away so much food.

> i didn't notice how much i was eating because i was sorta keeping

> pace with michael who is substantially larger than i am, and can EAT.

> LOL! but then, look who i'm talking to. LOL!

lol... I had dinner at Wayne and Tracey's the other night, and Wayne had made

three lamb roasts, and he kept asking me, " Do you want another piece, Chris? "

with sort of uneasy eyes, and, of course, I kept accepting. His friend was

over too, and kind of just had his jaw hanging open, saying things like " I just

can't believe how much you can eat... "

> --------->i don't understand how you could ask *us* if we were eating

> *soy* chips? i know you know us better than that. we would've

> *deserved* gas if we were going to be that stupid. ROFL!

Lol!

Welcome back to you too; missed you as well.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> By the way, I'm usually pretty good about minding my own business,

but

> if there was a " Fisher " implied after " Suze " in your earlier posts,

then

> I am deeply, deeply confused. On the other hand, given that the

> alternative is that you know more than one person with the unlikely

name

> of Suze, my model of reality could probably use some adjustment

either

> way.

----------->your choice - remain confused or adjust your model of

reality. <weg>

" suze "

[Guest guest]

> Sorry for the unnecessarily long answer, but yes, the larger meal

does seem

> to aggravate the problem of gas IF there is something in the big

meal that is

> posing a problem.

------->i think that was my problem. and i think the tortilla chips

were the main culprit. i had no idea i could pack away so much food.

i didn't notice how much i was eating because i was sorta keeping

pace with michael who is substantially larger than i am, and can EAT.

LOL! but then, look who i'm talking to. LOL!

>>>>Especially with the amount of food I eat, the more food the

> harder the stress on the digestive system, and I think that

probably applies

> even if there is just one small part of the meal causing a problem,

the sheer

> amount of the non-problem foods put extra stress.

------->that makes sense. i had a big meal last night (no chips) and

no gas.

> I suspect the chips ( by the way, they weren't the soy ones were

they?) and

> whatnot, and lack of fermented veggies, plays a part.

--------->i don't understand how you could ask *us* if we were eating

*soy* chips? i know you know us better than that. we would've

*deserved* gas if we were going to be that stupid. ROFL!

> I find the addition of raw honey to be helpful. Probably a

combined action

> of the enzymes and the antibiotics to prevent fermentation.

------->ah, interesting idea. i will have to try that. thanks :-)

suze

[Guest guest]

> lol... I had dinner at Wayne and Tracey's the other night, and

Wayne had made

> three lamb roasts, and he kept asking me, " Do you want another

piece, Chris? "

> with sort of uneasy eyes, and, of course, I kept accepting. His

friend was

> over too, and kind of just had his jaw hanging open, saying things

like " I just

> can't believe how much you can eat... "

-------->lol! that's easy to picture. i don't even dare ask how much

you did eat...

> Welcome back to you too; missed you as well.

>

----->thanks. likewise :-)

[Guest guest]

Chris-

Someone posted lab results on another list awhile ago, but I haven't been

able to dig it up.

>How do you judge whether there is lactose in it? Have you come across any

>reliable information on this?

-