Re: Re: Gas/WD/milk/sleeping-was Chris - now Heidi

[Guest guest]

Hi Cara ... I have similiar problems... being HCI deficient can actually

lead to mineral deficiency also, so it is one big crazy cycle. I have found

much relief through avoidance of legumes, grains, and dairy(sorry to all who

love it and the use of a combination of proteases, pepsin, HCI and

pancreatic enzymes. Also, I could not digest any protein food for a while

without terrible stomach food, and using probiotics allowed me to eat again.

I have Leaky Gut Syndrome also, and am going to be using a free form amino

acid supplement to allow my gut to heal. It should take about 6wks to 3mos;

the elemental formula is absorbed instantly, thus allowing my insides to

become unholey. Not to make it all about me, just almost healed and very

excited.

Good Luck and I hope that helps some. You are definitely on the right track

with the way you are eating. I read on the WAP site that gelatin broth is

very good for healing.

Sincerely,

Michele

>From: " lakeconwayhills " <lakeconwayhills@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: Gas/WD/milk/sleeping-was - now Heidi

>Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 22:22:18 -0000

>

>

>I'm not sure where B6 fits into all this: obviously

> > if the gliadin was broken down properly in the stomach

> > it wouldn't make it to the small intestine, but it seems that

> > few people have the correct enzymes to break it down,

> > humans just weren't designed to eat wheat.

>

>I had a feeling you were going to respond to this one ;-) I've got a

>virtually unknown, genetic hemoglobin disorder called pyroluria that

>results in severe deficiencies in zinc and B6. About eight weeks ago

>my zinc levels were very close to zero and B6 couldn't have been much

>higher. To get relief of most symptoms, I have to take 700 mg of B6

>daily which is 35,000 times the RDA. Zinc is needed to make HCl and

>B6 is needed to make protein enzyme(s), so Zn and B6 deficiencies

>will often look like food allergies. It's possible that I could have

>a gluten allergy in addition to a Zn/B6 deficiency, but I'm beginning

>to doubt it based on the fact that many of my symptoms that are

>similar to gluten intolerance disappeared when I started taking B6

>and Zn, despite eating lots of gluten.

>

>For example, I sleep through the night almost every night when

>previously I had unbelievably bad sleep problems and no dreams. My

>skin is becoming soft and smooth when just a week ago it was dry,

>insanely itchy, and looked like reptile skin. Also, I've had a life-

>long skin condition called keratosis pilaris, which hasn't been bad

>in the last few weeks and it is normally really bad in the winter.

>My mood has been very even, I've been handling stress well (as long

>as I remember to take my B6), and I've felt happy most of the time

>despite it being winter and finding out that my mom has 6-12 months

>to live. My morning nausea has disappeared. I've been plagued my

>whole life with nervousness/anxieties over the most ridiculous

>things, and this has almost disappeared. For example, at work we

>have company-wide monthly meetings to review financials for the

>previous month. We've been extremely profitable for the last several

>years so these meetings are very pleasant. Nevertheless, I would

>always get really nervous to the point I'd even shake sometimes

>before, during, and after the meeting. Not only have I not done

>that, I been completely relaxed before, and during all meetings I've

>attended, even when I've been in the hot seat.

>

>I've been on a B6/Zn regiment for about eight weeks now and have

>eaten gluten, corn, eggs, cheese, yogurt, and kefir consistently

>through all eight weeks.

>

>When I get to the end of the undereating phase of the WD, my stomach

>is completely flat. After eating a small amount of something with

>protein either a salad with cheese and nuts, or a cup of broth, my

>stomach swells up and I look pregnant. This doesn't happen when I

>drink an even a greater amount of water. By the end of the meal, I

>usually have other digestive ailments depending on how much meat and

>hard to digest proteins I ate. The bloating will gradually subside

>and by lunchtime the next day is almost gone.

>

>So this combination of phenomena and my family history makes me

>believe that my main problems are lack of protein enzymes and HCl,

>and undigested protein, all resulting from my B6/Zn deficiency,

>rather than an allergy. Although, it is possible there could also be

>an allergy tied into this, too. In the meantime, I am planning to

>avoid gluten, casein, corn protein, beans, while my digestive system

>heals and I figure out how to digest broth and meat.

>

>Incidentally, it was your gluten information that led me to discover

>pyroluria and eventually be tested for it. Your descriptions of

>gluten intolerance and suggestion to someone of a meat and vegetable

>only diet made me suspect that I could be gluten-intolerant. The

>meat and veggie diet actually exacerbated my symptoms which made me

>realize that I was severely zinc and B6 deficient.

>

>Cara

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

make terrible stomach food terrible stomach PAIN, LOL.

Michele

>From: " the scorpio " <rawbabymama@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: RE: Re: Gas/WD/milk/sleeping-was - now

>Heidi

>Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 18:20:07 -0500

>

>Hi Cara ... I have similiar problems... being HCI deficient can actually

>lead to mineral deficiency also, so it is one big crazy cycle. I have found

>much relief through avoidance of legumes, grains, and dairy(sorry to all

>who

>love it and the use of a combination of proteases, pepsin, HCI and

>pancreatic enzymes. Also, I could not digest any protein food for a while

>without terrible stomach food, and using probiotics allowed me to eat

>again.

>

>I have Leaky Gut Syndrome also, and am going to be using a free form amino

>acid supplement to allow my gut to heal. It should take about 6wks to 3mos;

>the elemental formula is absorbed instantly, thus allowing my insides to

>become unholey. Not to make it all about me, just almost healed and very

>excited.

>

>Good Luck and I hope that helps some. You are definitely on the right track

>with the way you are eating. I read on the WAP site that gelatin broth is

>very good for healing.

>

>Sincerely,

>

>Michele

>

>

> >From: " lakeconwayhills " <lakeconwayhills@...>

> >Reply-

> >

> >Subject: Re: Gas/WD/milk/sleeping-was - now

>Heidi

> >Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 22:22:18 -0000

> >

> >

> >I'm not sure where B6 fits into all this: obviously

> > > if the gliadin was broken down properly in the stomach

> > > it wouldn't make it to the small intestine, but it seems that

> > > few people have the correct enzymes to break it down,

> > > humans just weren't designed to eat wheat.

> >

> >I had a feeling you were going to respond to this one ;-) I've got a

> >virtually unknown, genetic hemoglobin disorder called pyroluria that

> >results in severe deficiencies in zinc and B6. About eight weeks ago

> >my zinc levels were very close to zero and B6 couldn't have been much

> >higher. To get relief of most symptoms, I have to take 700 mg of B6

> >daily which is 35,000 times the RDA. Zinc is needed to make HCl and

> >B6 is needed to make protein enzyme(s), so Zn and B6 deficiencies

> >will often look like food allergies. It's possible that I could have

> >a gluten allergy in addition to a Zn/B6 deficiency, but I'm beginning

> >to doubt it based on the fact that many of my symptoms that are

> >similar to gluten intolerance disappeared when I started taking B6

> >and Zn, despite eating lots of gluten.

> >

> >For example, I sleep through the night almost every night when

> >previously I had unbelievably bad sleep problems and no dreams. My

> >skin is becoming soft and smooth when just a week ago it was dry,

> >insanely itchy, and looked like reptile skin. Also, I've had a life-

> >long skin condition called keratosis pilaris, which hasn't been bad

> >in the last few weeks and it is normally really bad in the winter.

> >My mood has been very even, I've been handling stress well (as long

> >as I remember to take my B6), and I've felt happy most of the time

> >despite it being winter and finding out that my mom has 6-12 months

> >to live. My morning nausea has disappeared. I've been plagued my

> >whole life with nervousness/anxieties over the most ridiculous

> >things, and this has almost disappeared. For example, at work we

> >have company-wide monthly meetings to review financials for the

> >previous month. We've been extremely profitable for the last several

> >years so these meetings are very pleasant. Nevertheless, I would

> >always get really nervous to the point I'd even shake sometimes

> >before, during, and after the meeting. Not only have I not done

> >that, I been completely relaxed before, and during all meetings I've

> >attended, even when I've been in the hot seat.

> >

> >I've been on a B6/Zn regiment for about eight weeks now and have

> >eaten gluten, corn, eggs, cheese, yogurt, and kefir consistently

> >through all eight weeks.

> >

> >When I get to the end of the undereating phase of the WD, my stomach

> >is completely flat. After eating a small amount of something with

> >protein either a salad with cheese and nuts, or a cup of broth, my

> >stomach swells up and I look pregnant. This doesn't happen when I

> >drink an even a greater amount of water. By the end of the meal, I

> >usually have other digestive ailments depending on how much meat and

> >hard to digest proteins I ate. The bloating will gradually subside

> >and by lunchtime the next day is almost gone.

> >

> >So this combination of phenomena and my family history makes me

> >believe that my main problems are lack of protein enzymes and HCl,

> >and undigested protein, all resulting from my B6/Zn deficiency,

> >rather than an allergy. Although, it is possible there could also be

> >an allergy tied into this, too. In the meantime, I am planning to

> >avoid gluten, casein, corn protein, beans, while my digestive system

> >heals and I figure out how to digest broth and meat.

> >

> >Incidentally, it was your gluten information that led me to discover

> >pyroluria and eventually be tested for it. Your descriptions of

> >gluten intolerance and suggestion to someone of a meat and vegetable

> >only diet made me suspect that I could be gluten-intolerant. The

> >meat and veggie diet actually exacerbated my symptoms which made me

> >realize that I was severely zinc and B6 deficient.

> >

> >Cara

> >

> >

> >

>

>_________________________________________________________________

>Enjoy a special introductory offer for dial-up Internet access — limited

>time only! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>I had a feeling you were going to respond to this one ;-) I've got a

>virtually unknown, genetic hemoglobin disorder called pyroluria that

>results in severe deficiencies in zinc and B6. About eight weeks ago

>my zinc levels were very close to zero and B6 couldn't have been much

>higher. To get relief of most symptoms, I have to take 700 mg of B6

>daily which is 35,000 times the RDA. Zinc is needed to make HCl and

>B6 is needed to make protein enzyme(s), so Zn and B6 deficiencies

>will often look like food allergies. It's possible that I could have

>a gluten allergy in addition to a Zn/B6 deficiency, but I'm beginning

>to doubt it based on the fact that many of my symptoms that are

>similar to gluten intolerance disappeared when I started taking B6

>and Zn, despite eating lots of gluten.

It IS hard to differentiate. Esp. since gluten intolerance

really doesn't have it's " own " set of symptoms. Most of the

symptoms have to do with vitamin and mineral deficiencies,

or bacterial overgrowth. I used to be able to mask most

of my own symptoms by taking probiotics and vitamins. Most people

who are gluten intolerant have NO symptoms. That is

why we need better tests!

Which isn't to tell you what to do. It's a really interesting

philisophical question at this point in time -- in 10 years

there will be better answers. For my family I'm pretty sure

that gluten is a far worse danger than, say, nitrates or soy,

but I'm pretty sure of our genetics too.

You seem to have found " the " vitamin you were lacking,

and that is great! Seems like pyroluria is associated with mental

issues too, so finding out is a good thing.

>So this combination of phenomena and my family history makes me

>believe that my main problems are lack of protein enzymes and HCl,

>and undigested protein, all resulting from my B6/Zn deficiency,

>rather than an allergy. Although, it is possible there could also be

>an allergy tied into this, too. In the meantime, I am planning to

>avoid gluten, casein, corn protein, beans, while my digestive system

>heals and I figure out how to digest broth and meat.

I tend to agree ... even in folks who have allergies, the bloating

actually comes from undigested food, not from the allergy

itself. I.e. the allergy *doesn't* make a person bloated ... it is

the bacteria/yeast attacking undigested food that make a person

bloated, usually. There are lots of reasons a food can be

undigested ... lack of HCL, lack of enzymes, damaged villi,

wrong bacterial mix in the gut. People with gluten intolerance

usually have all 4, but the damaged villi seems to be the hallmark

of gluten problems (not that anyone can tell if they are damaged

without a biopsy). I'm not sure of all the reasons for the other 3,

but pyroluria could be in there ...

>Incidentally, it was your gluten information that led me to discover

>pyroluria and eventually be tested for it. Your descriptions of

>gluten intolerance and suggestion to someone of a meat and vegetable

>only diet made me suspect that I could be gluten-intolerant. The

>meat and veggie diet actually exacerbated my symptoms which made me

>realize that I was severely zinc and B6 deficient.

I've heard that from a lot of people, that they find they are unable

to eat meat, which is especially devastating if a person can't eat grains

either! Have you started taking the enzymes? If so, are they helping?

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

I use Peptizyde, which is just proteases, and Ultra Pancreatin ... the

bottle actually tells you how many grams of protein(75), carbs(75) and

fat(105) it breaks down, the website is www.nutraceutical.com . The

combination of these two plus Solaray HCL w/pepsin has allowed me to eat

protein with no discomfort or side effects(excema,etc). It is good to target

the breakdown in its different stages... the stomach uses pepsin and the

duodenum uses pancreatic enzymes such as trypsin, chemotrypsin and I can

never remember the other one. Anyway, this allows everything to completely

break down.

take care

Michele

>From: " lakeconwayhills " <lakeconwayhills@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: Gas/WD/milk/sleeping-was - now Heidi

>Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 03:05:57 -0000

>

>

> Have you started taking the enzymes? If so, are they helping?

> >

> > -- Heidi

>

>I've tried Omegazyme from GOL and whatever brand Radiant Life sells.

>Neither made any noticable difference over a several week period.

>I'm beginning to think that they don't have enough of the protein

>enzymes for me. I'm looking for something with more protein enzymes

>but haven't found anything. I tried Thorne Research HCl, but that

>was an experience I'd rather not repeat and I'm not sure what to do

>about the HCl.

>

>Cara

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/7/04 7:13:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,

h2ocolor@... writes:

> Pyroluria is really not unknown. In fact Carl Pfieffer MD, PHd, has

> been treating it with zinc and B-6 since the 70's. Try a search with

> Carl Pfieffer pyroluria and you will find a lot of articles and a

> link to the center he founded which is now in Illinois.

Carl Pfieffer might know about it, but hardly anyone else does. My doctor

had never heard of it, and it wasn't in his desk reference, and the lab he uses

doesn't test for pyrolles. He's eager for me to return to him more

information. I suspect most doctor's are in his position regarding this issue.

Chris