Re:Menopause question +dairy hormones???

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

http://uk.messenger./download/index.html

----------------------------

January 19, 2004

Lynn, Suze

I hvae read (half) of Lee's book " what your Dr

may not tell you about pre-menopause " . To be honest,

I found it a bit of a waste of time, and basically a

sales pitch for his progesterone cream.

I personally believe that it is preferable to pinpoint

the cause of the excess oestrogen and deal with that,

than use very expensive progesterone cream for the

rest of my (child bearing) life.

When I talked to my gynae about progesterone cream,

she said she had some patients who use it, but it

generally isn't strong enough to treat endometriosis.

Just my own experience, but I have found good diet and

homeopathy to be excellent at treating the root cause.

As an aside, I posted yesterday that the dark hairs on

my legs didn't appear to improve along with everyhting

else. Well, I was looking at them today, and actually

they are paler and not quite as thick as they used to

be. So I find this very encouraging - enough to keep

off the dairy long term!

Jo

--- Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote: > >

------->lynn, fwiw up until a few months ago i also

> had swollen and sore

> breasts for the week preceeding my period. i've had

> this for as long as i

> can remember. but a few months ago i started using

> natural progesterone

> cream, and now i can't even tell when i'm about to

> menstruate - all my

> premenstrual symptoms (that i'd had forever) have

> disappeared. the only

> menstrual problem that i still have is cramps, but i

> get them during

> menstruation, not before. in any case, if you

> haven't read john lee's book

> (et al) " what your doctor may NOT tell you about

> menopause " i'd highly

> recommend it. they argue that the best way to

> balance out all the excess

> estrogen that so many of us have is with *natural*

> progesterone cream. i

> also talked to ron about it (are you consulting with

> him, too?) and he

> agrees that it was a good idea for me to try. i'm 40

> and i actually read the

> other john lee book for *premenopausal* women (from

> 30-50), but i understand

> the content is similar.

>

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January 19, 2004

Hi all,

Thanks so much for this interesting and informative thread. I wonder if you

could clarify some things?

I have been wondering if I have accumulated too much estrogen or have too

little progesterone. I've started getting bothered by my breasts before my

period. I didn't think about hormone imbalances until we started trying to

conceive, to no avail. Then I started charging and found out that I have a

short luteal phase, ie, the time between ovulation and the next period. I

heard this could be due to hormone imbalances.

The sore breasts thing and more pms symptoms in general has actually only

started **after** being on an NT - type diet. The thing that I know I have

deliberately done is up my fat intake, mainly animal fats and cheese. I'm

definitely much happier... but also notice my cycle more (which has also got

longer).

So my understanding from your posts is that the best things to do are:

- decrease dairy fats

- decrease animal fats

- get calcium from broths

- do liver flush

- avoid other sources of oestrogen (like what??????)

Then I guess I had better go to the doctor and get a test or something I

suppose

Thanks for any help!

Helen

January 19, 2004

---->No, no no you don't want to decrease your animal fats

especially if you're decreasing diary. You've got to get the fat

soluble vits from somewhere plus the fats are needed to create

hormones. I'm not sure exactly what the answer is but I have a

sneaky suspicion it has less to do with too much estrogen as to do

with too much of the wrong estrogens or estrogen mimickers kicking

around the normal estrogen in our bodies.

In my case I believe I also need to work on getting the estrogen to

process more effectively and then leave my body. Hence doing some

work on my liver. I'm not sure that applies to everyone though.

On avoiding estrogen mimicker question....oh my that's complicated.

They are everywhere and it's not possible to completely get them

out. Some of what we do are to filter all our water, keep foods out

of plastics (never heat food in plastic), no pesticides or

herbicides, low no toxic cleaning supplies in our house or outside,

air filters in our house and cars. I'm also frightfully rigid about

what I allow into the house as we remodel. I could drive someone

crazy because I will research like crazy and that takes a while.

If you do a aearch on hormone mimickers you will come up with lots/

Bye

Lynn

--- In , " Helen East " <helen@p...>

wrote:

> Hi all,

>

> Thanks so much for this interesting and informative thread. I

wonder if you

> could clarify some things?

>

> I have been wondering if I have accumulated too much estrogen or

have too

> little progesterone. I've started getting bothered by my breasts

before my

> period. I didn't think about hormone imbalances until we started

trying to

> conceive, to no avail. Then I started charging and found out that

I have a

> short luteal phase, ie, the time between ovulation and the next

period. I

> heard this could be due to hormone imbalances.

>

> The sore breasts thing and more pms symptoms in general has

actually only

> started **after** being on an NT - type diet. The thing that I

know I have

> deliberately done is up my fat intake, mainly animal fats and

cheese. I'm

> definitely much happier... but also notice my cycle more (which

has also got

> longer).

>

> So my understanding from your posts is that the best things to do

are:

>

> - decrease dairy fats

> - decrease animal fats

> - get calcium from broths

> - do liver flush

> - avoid other sources of oestrogen (like what??????)

>

> Then I guess I had better go to the doctor and get a test or

something I

> suppose

>

> Thanks for any help!

>

> Helen

January 19, 2004

>>>>I hvae read (half) of Lee's book " what your Dr

may not tell you about pre-menopause " . To be honest,

I found it a bit of a waste of time, and basically a

sales pitch for his progesterone cream.

--->oh weird, i read the whole book and don't recall any sales pitch for his

cream, and in fact didn't even remember he had a cream. there is a long list

of different brands of natural creams in the appendix too - which i checked

out. i may order my next cream from that list, if i need any more. for me

also, i definitely wouldn't call it a waste of time because it explained

clearly to me how hormones work, the myriad causes imbalances, etc. i

thought it was a good overview for the layperson.

>>>I personally believe that it is preferable to pinpoint

the cause of the excess oestrogen and deal with that,

than use very expensive progesterone cream for the

rest of my (child bearing) life.

----->i think an effective approach is two-pronged - stop or reduce xeno

estrogens and whatever other sources of your estrogen excess, and

concomitantly reduce your estrogen load via progesterone cream, liver

cleansing, etc. BUT, i wouldn't take progesterone cream for a long period

(although i'm sure that depends on the person). once you clear out the

excess estrogen in your body, and restore your body to health, it should be

able to take care of itself - manufacture the right balance of hormones, rid

itself of environmental estrogens, etc. so you shouldn't have to take

progesterone cream indefinitely.

also, i wouldn't use expensive progesterone cream either. i got my first

bottle from my ND and it *was* expensive, but i got my second one from an

online source that a WAPF chapter leader sent me. she is actually the one

that suggested i take it in the first place. both she and her sister had

excellent results with it and both had MUCH worse estrogen dominance

symptoms than i do. i had already started on it when i got the lee book, but

the book convinced me to take a higher dose than the chapter leader

recommended. as i've mentioned, so far it's cleared up my PMS symptoms

rather quickly. the only thing indicating to me that my hormones are still

out of whack is the fact that i still have cramping. however i've only used

the progesterone cream for a few months.

having said that, what works, works. if you've found another route that

works for you, more power to you! :-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

----------------------------

January 20, 2004

>>>>I have been wondering if I have accumulated too much estrogen or have

too

little progesterone. I've started getting bothered by my breasts before my

period. I didn't think about hormone imbalances until we started trying to

conceive, to no avail. Then I started charging and found out that I have a

short luteal phase, ie, the time between ovulation and the next period. I

heard this could be due to hormone imbalances.

-------->yes, these are classic signs of excess estrogen and deficient

progesterone.

>>>>The sore breasts thing and more pms symptoms in general has actually

only

started **after** being on an NT - type diet. The thing that I know I have

deliberately done is up my fat intake, mainly animal fats and cheese. I'm

definitely much happier... but also notice my cycle more (which has also got

longer).

------>what is the quality of your animal fats and cheese? are they from

strictly grass-fed animals on high fertility soil? whether or not you are

ingesting xeno-estrogens from your animal fat sources largely depends on the

diet and health of the animal. the first year i started NT i was drinking a

lot of milk and cream from a local farm that told me their dairy cows eat

strictly grass in season, and their home grown corn and hay in the winter.

after a year of this i found out that in fact every dairy cow eats 16 lbs.

of commercial grains per day(!) there could well be a significant amount of

xeno-estrogens built up in my body as a result, imo.

>>>>So my understanding from your posts is that the best things to do are:

- decrease dairy fats

- decrease animal fats

----------->NO NO NO!!! LOL! but INCREASE healthy animal fats from grass-fed

animals, preferably on high fertility soil.

>>>>>>>

- get calcium from broths

- do liver flush

- avoid other sources of oestrogen (like what??????)

------------->calcium from broths is fine too. liver flush is good, an

*definitely try to avoid xeno-estrogens as much as possible. there are two

different forms of exogenous estrogens, i believe (ones produced outside of

the body). xeno-estrogens and phyto-estrogens. phyto-estrogens are found in

plants and are similar to human estrogens, but are supposed to be much

weaker, and much much weaker than xeno-estrogens, which are, i've read, the

strongest estrogens of all.

as i've already said to others, i'd recommend getting the book " what your

doctor may NOT tell you about premenopause " by john lee et al if you are

having hormonal problems. also, ray peat's articles on hormonal balance are

worth a read (http://www.efn.org/~raypeat/horm.html). the lee book lists

many sources of xeno-estrogens but my copy is out on loan, so i can only

list the few i remember:

plastic (not sure if it's all kinds or just specific kinds)

PCBs

Dioxin

nonoxynol-9 (contraceptive gel, cream, etc)

pesticides

herbicides

again, i'm going by memory, but i think those are all on the list as well as

many other man-made chemicals.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

----------------------------

January 20, 2004

i wrote:

>> there are two different forms of exogenous estrogens, i believe (ones

produced outside of the body). xeno-estrogens and phyto-estrogens.

phyto-estrogens are found in

plants and are similar to human estrogens, but are supposed to be much

weaker, and much much weaker than xeno-estrogens, which are, i've read, the

strongest estrogens of all.

seems i didn't finish that explanation - xeno-estrogens are man-made

chemicals.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics