Atkins diet - A calorie is a calorie is a . . .

[Guest guest]

Now they think they've discovered why the Atkins diet works.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3416637.stm

And - now get this -- it's because the people who follow it eat less

calories.

And get this - " Research has shown that fat is the least filling food. " If

this is true why does a high fat meal stick with me far longer than a low

fat meal.

If people didn't actually believe this stuff the article would be

hilarious.

The Atkins diet has been around 30+ years and the establishment cannot

determine whether it's bad for us or not because quantities of people in

white coats and carrying clipboards have not followed us around for all of

that time.

Why don't they just do a telephone survey of doctors and ask how their

patients on low carb are faring?

Judith Alta

[Guest guest]

Judith,

Schwarzbein says that only carbs " don't " signal the brain the stomach is

full. Protein and fat do.

Wanita

> Now they think they've discovered why the Atkins diet works.

>

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3416637.stm

>

> And - now get this -- it's because the people who follow it eat less

> calories.

>

> And get this - " Research has shown that fat is the least filling food. " If

> this is true why does a high fat meal stick with me far longer than a low

> fat meal.

> Judith Alta

[Guest guest]

Hi Wanita,

Hope you realize that I was poking fun at their stupid comments. I should

have made that more clear.

Makes one wonder where some of these " experts " get their brains.

I have Schwarbein's book and it is a great one. She explains out a lot of

things the others don't

Enjoy! ;-)

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: Wanita Sears [mailto:wanitawa@...]

Judith,

Schwarzbein says that only carbs " don't " signal the brain the stomach is

full. Protein and fat do.

Wanita

> Now they think they've discovered why the Atkins diet works.

>

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3416637.stm

>

> And - now get this -- it's because the people who follow it eat less

> calories.

>

> And get this - " Research has shown that fat is the least filling food. " If

> this is true why does a high fat meal stick with me far longer than a low

> fat meal.

> Judith Alta

[Guest guest]

When they handed out brains the " experts " thought they said " trains " and

said they didn't want any.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

Hi Wanita,

Hope you realize that I was poking fun at their stupid comments. I should

have made that more clear.

Makes one wonder where some of these " experts " get their brains.

I have Schwarbein's book and it is a great one. She explains out a lot of

things the others don't

Enjoy! ;-)

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: Wanita Sears [mailto:wanitawa@...]

Judith,

Schwarzbein says that only carbs " don't " signal the brain the stomach is

full. Protein and fat do.

Wanita

> Now they think they've discovered why the Atkins diet works.

>

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3416637.stm

>

> And - now get this -- it's because the people who follow it eat less

> calories.

>

> And get this - " Research has shown that fat is the least filling food. " If

> this is true why does a high fat meal stick with me far longer than a low

> fat meal.

> Judith Alta

[Guest guest]

Seems like what Schwartzbein says isn't that far off

from the article though? ... her basic take is that if

you restrict carbs, you lose weight because you fill up

faster and eat fewer calories.

Personally I think there are other factors too:

1. Ketosis IS said to be less efficient, so you use more calories.

I wonder how long the twins had been on the diet? Long enough

to use up all the glycogen in their systems?

2. A lot of people don't really digest all the fat they

eat, so fat calories can be " free " .

3. Some carbs (notably, IMO, gluten-containing carbs, other allergens,

and maybe fructose) really really really screw up the appestat.

I haven't really heard these addressed by anyone ... I have heard

some estimates of how many calories go " undigested " and it

was fairly high, but I haven't heard this addressed much in regards

to losing weight. They did do some testing on #3 though, that kids

given a high-carb breakfast were more likely to eat more during lunch

than kids given a protein breakfast.

-- Heidi

>Makes one wonder where some of these " experts " get their brains.

>

>I have Schwarbein's book and it is a great one. She explains out a lot of

>things the others don't

> Judith Alta

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Heidi-

Well, maybe if they excrete them, but not if they're moved directly to storage.

>2. A lot of people don't really digest all the fat they

> eat, so fat calories can be " free " .

-

[Guest guest]

>> Some carbs (notably, IMO, gluten-containing carbs, other allergens,

and maybe fructose) really really really screw up the appestat. <<

For me, this is really key. As long as my carbs are not from sugar (sorry,

Heidi, but I don't need gluten to binge, LOL!), grains, or high glycemic fruits

or veggies, I make good food choices and make them with my brain.

As soon as I get carbed up, I'm not able to make good decisions and stop myself

from binging and overeating. It doesn't matter how much or how little fat or

protein I'm getting, if I don't also cut the carbs I'm not able to control my

eating.

Christie

[Guest guest]

>Heidi-

>

>Well, maybe if they excrete them, but not if they're moved directly to storage.

>

> -

That's what I meant. They excrete the fat, the fat

never makes it out of the intestine. Also, bile

that is secreted INTO the intestine contains fat,

and a lot of it is excreted. This varies by

individual, of course ... some folks are so bad

at digesting that they waste away, in an extreme

case. But most studies act like every single calorie

gets digested and used. I've never seen one that

actually analyzed bodily wastes as part of the

computation (even though they go to extremes to

account for respiration etc.).

Hmmm ... come to think of it, what about all the

oil that is secreted onto your skin? THOSE calories

aren't " burned " either.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>For me, this is really key. As long as my carbs are not from sugar (sorry,

Heidi, but I don't need gluten to binge, LOL!), grains, or high glycemic fruits

or veggies, I make good food choices and make them with my brain.

Well, I have to admit that a chocolate GF brownie

with coconut-pecan frosting I had for

lunch (NOT on the WD, obviously) severely made me hungry

for dinner ...

>As soon as I get carbed up, I'm not able to make good decisions and stop myself

from binging and overeating. It doesn't matter how much or how little fat or

protein I'm getting, if I don't also cut the carbs I'm not able to control my

eating.

>

>Christie

I DO understand binging! I never seem to binge

on anything remotely healthy though, and it is a lot

harder than it used to be.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

My $0.02--

-- Carbs and protein *do* both have satiety value, but it is very small

compared to fat

-- High-fat diets *do* make you eat less calories, because fat is more

filling

-- Insulin inhibits lipolysis. I think this is more important than its role

in turning carbs to fat. It stops you from burning fat.

-- Insulin inhibits the effects of adrenalin. Lowering it should give you

more energy.

Chris

[Guest guest]

,

>(and adrenalin resistance? is there such a thing?)

Yes, sort of. Chronically high levels of adrenalin can probably cause a

shift in the proportion of beta-2 to alpha-2 receptors on fat cells, the former

of

which stimulate cAMP (and therefore lipolysis) when bound to adrenalin, the

latter of which stimulates cGMP (and therefore inhibits lipolysis) when bound

to adrenalin. That would essentially constitute a form of " adrenalin

resistance, " in a way.

> Excess insulin also contributes to adrenal fatigue by causing chronic

> overproduction of adrenalin to compensate for that excess of adrenalin

> inhibition.

That's a good point I hadn't thought of.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Chris-

Excess insulin also contributes to adrenal fatigue (and adrenalin

resistance? is there such a thing?) by causing chronic overproduction of

adrenalin to compensate for that excess of adrenalin inhibition.

>-- Insulin inhibits the effects of adrenalin. Lowering it should give you

>more energy.

-

[Guest guest]

>> Well, I have to admit that a chocolate GF brownie

with coconut-pecan frosting I had for

lunch (NOT on the WD, obviously) severely made me hungry

for dinner ... <<

LOL, oh yes, I can imagine it well. <G> My idea of heaven is a hot brownie.

Sigh.

Christie

[Guest guest]

Heidi-

Nor are structural protein " calories " . The whole calorie theory has a wide

variety of problems, not least of which is the way they're calculated in

the first place.

>Hmmm ... come to think of it, what about all the

>oil that is secreted onto your skin? THOSE calories

>aren't " burned " either.

-

[Guest guest]

The calorie theory sounds great. Logical, simple easy to figure. Problem is

it just doesn't work. The people who developed it seem to think the body

" burns " food the same way a fireplace burns wood.

There's a fascinating article at www.omen.com called Obesity 101. It's a

fascinating read about quantities of studies done on diets. The part that I

find most interesting is that people can be put on a calorie diet at X # of

calories a day. Without changing the type of food or number of calories

these people lost weight, maintained for a while and regained the weight.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: Idol [mailto:Idol@...]

Heidi-

Nor are structural protein " calories " . The whole calorie theory has a wide

variety of problems, not least of which is the way they're calculated in

the first place.

-

[Guest guest]

Judith-

I just discovered that site myself. Quite interesting, and highly

recommended, though I've only scraped the surface.

>There's a fascinating article at www.omen.com called Obesity 101.

-

[Guest guest]

Have you reach the comparison between Atkins and Ornish? It's a real giggle

if you are not an Ornish fan.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: Idol [mailto:Idol@...]

Judith-

I just discovered that site myself. Quite interesting, and highly

recommended, though I've only scraped the surface.

>There's a fascinating article at www.omen.com called Obesity 101.

-

[Guest guest]

Judith-

No, where is it? It sounds hilarious just from the matchup.

>Have you reach the comparison between Atkins and Ornish? It's a real giggle

>if you are not an Ornish fan.

-

[Guest guest]

Oh, it is. Anyone who is serious about lowering their lipid levels won't

want to go anywhere near Ornish after seeing this.

It's in Adiposity 101.

Scroll about two thirds of the way down. It's easy to catch because there is

a table with it.

If you can't find it I can email it to you. The table won't reproduce on the

list and I won't have time to diddle with it before next week some time.

Enjoy! ;-)

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: Idol [mailto:Idol@...]

Judith-

No, where is it? It sounds hilarious just from the matchup.

>Have you reach the comparison between Atkins and Ornish? It's a real giggle

>if you are not an Ornish fan.

-