Plantar Fasciitis and the JAW?

[Guest guest]

I have never heard that plantar fasciitis could be

related to the jaw, but I will share this anecdote

with you. My myofascial release instructor in

chiropractic school was lecturing one day about the

relationship between pelvic restrictions and TMJ

disorders. He had everyone in the room self-test for

TMJ hypomobility by attempting to place three of our

knuckles into our open mouth (standard test for ROM).

He identified one of my classmates who could not pass

the three knuckle test and brought her forward. After

spending about 30 seconds doing some myofascial work

on her pelvis he had her retest herself and she could

effortlessly get three knuckles into her mouth.

I don't claim to understand it. I don't remember what

muscles the instructor worked on. I don't have any

research to wave in anyone's face. I can only say

that I saw it with my own eyes.

Lowry, DC

Dr. Lowry, LLC

1220 Knox Abbott Drive

Suite D

Columbia, SC 29033

USA

--- Casler wrote:

> Fahey wrote:

>

> Several people had questions about treatment for

> plantar fasciitis. I had

> this problem for

> several years. A foot night splint that holds the

> foot at a 90° angle in a

> slight stretch works

> very well. You wear it to bed. I wore the splint for

> three nights, which

> cleared up the problem

> completely. The splint also works well for Achilles

> tendonitis.

>

> Joe wrote:

>

> Plantar Fascitis is often times linked to a jaw

> problem. Seek out a

> qualified soft tissue specialist/ myofascial expert

> such as Dr. Guy Voyer

> www.osteopathy.ca

>

> Have the specialist work the fascia around the jaw

> you should see

> improvement.

>

>

> Casler writes:

>

> While I certainly have seen the prescription and

> results of the " night

> splints " Tom speaks of, I would seriously question

> Joe's assertion.

>

> I have had, and have successfully treated plantar

> fasciitis several times,

> and find that it is always related to a stress or

> repetitive stress, leading

> to soft tissue damage and the resulting inflammation

> cycle.

>

> Joe, I have to say that I am extremely dubious that

> you have a " shred " of

> reason or evidence to support this " link " but would

> certainly be interested

> in your expanding on this link, and the mechanism

> that ties the jaw and the

> plantar fascia together, so that therapy on one will

> heal the other.

>

> Please explain.

>

> Regards,

>

> Casler

> TRI-VECTOR 3-D Force Systems

> Century City, CA

[Guest guest]

Perhaps I may shed some light on plantar fasciitis and the Jaw.

Five years ago I took a Myofascial stretching course from Dr. Guy Voyer . I

learned that there are " fascial chains " that run through out the body from head

to toe and side to side. Each muscle has its own pathway. I do not know all

these pathways. What I have experienced is that " hamstring tightness " for

example may result from a shorted area of the chain in the neck or back. Thus

with regards to plantar fasciitis there must be a soft tissue or myofascial

connection between the muscles of the jaw and plantar fascia.

Mike Grafstein

B.Ph.Ed, CAT©, CSCS,MT

amt.plus@...

Newmarket, Ontario Canada

Re: Plantar Fasciitis and the JAW?

I have never heard that plantar fasciitis could be

related to the jaw, but I will share this anecdote

with you. My myofascial release instructor in

chiropractic school was lecturing one day about the

relationship between pelvic restrictions and TMJ

disorders. He had everyone in the room self-test for

TMJ hypomobility by attempting to place three of our

knuckles into our open mouth (standard test for ROM).

He identified one of my classmates who could not pass

the three knuckle test and brought her forward. After

spending about 30 seconds doing some myofascial work

on her pelvis he had her retest herself and she could

effortlessly get three knuckles into her mouth.

I don't claim to understand it. I don't remember what

muscles the instructor worked on. I don't have any

research to wave in anyone's face. I can only say

that I saw it with my own eyes.

Lowry, DC

Dr. Lowry, LLC

1220 Knox Abbott Drive

Suite D

Columbia, SC 29033

USA

--- Casler wrote:

> Fahey wrote:

>

> Several people had questions about treatment for

> plantar fasciitis. I had

> this problem for

> several years. A foot night splint that holds the

> foot at a 90° angle in a

> slight stretch works

> very well. You wear it to bed. I wore the splint for

> three nights, which

> cleared up the problem

> completely. The splint also works well for Achilles

> tendonitis.

>

> Joe wrote:

>

> Plantar Fascitis is often times linked to a jaw

> problem. Seek out a

> qualified soft tissue specialist/ myofascial expert

> such as Dr. Guy Voyer

> www.osteopathy.ca

>

> Have the specialist work the fascia around the jaw

> you should see

> improvement.

>

>

> Casler writes:

>

> While I certainly have seen the prescription and

> results of the " night

> splints " Tom speaks of, I would seriously question

> Joe's assertion.

>

> I have had, and have successfully treated plantar

> fasciitis several times,

> and find that it is always related to a stress or

> repetitive stress, leading

> to soft tissue damage and the resulting inflammation

> cycle.

>

> Joe, I have to say that I am extremely dubious that

> you have a " shred " of

> reason or evidence to support this " link " but would

> certainly be interested

> in your expanding on this link, and the mechanism

> that ties the jaw and the

> plantar fascia together, so that therapy on one will

> heal the other.

>

> Please explain.

>

> Regards,

>

> Casler

> TRI-VECTOR 3-D Force Systems

> Century City, CA

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[Guest guest]

> ph wrote:

>

> Both and told me that Voyeur has treated many

clients with

> Plantar Fascitis by treating the jaw; at least that's where he

begins his

> treatment depending on how long he/she has had the problem? Voyeur

also

> treats various knees problems by working on the fascia that

surrounds the

> chest.

>

> Dr. Voyeurs English speaking skills are weak and to fully

understand his

> course was overwhelming for me. I am no expert.

ph,

My name is Terry Mavroudis. I'm a young strength coach

out of montreal.i've been learning from paul gagne for several years

now..i will be taking the somatotherapy seminars by guy voyer in the

near future..and why not...I think we both agree that the sports

performance center has and still produces some of the best athletes

around. I mean just look at what they did with Mike Pringle right

after he had total knee reconstruction surgery. once told me that we have

fascia that starts and connects from under the heel, through the back and neck,

all the way up to the front of the forehead. I've seen many of my clients heal

from nagging pains with the use of myofascial stretching. I aslo love the

eldoa's(intevertebral decoaptation techniques)for the spinal cord..I think that

any problem concerning the head will have a negative affect on the rest of the

body..I will ask paul what he thinks about this topic.

Terry Mavroudis

Bionic Fitness

Montreal, Canada

[Guest guest]

,

From my understanding one should be able to place 3 fingers inside the mouth

(mouth opened as wide as he/she can). This is called the Buccal Opening

Amplitude which has to be between 40 and 50 mm. (Brico 2004). A reduction shows

a muscular contraction.

Joe

Boston, MA.

Lowry wrote:

I have never heard that plantar fasciitis could be

related to the jaw, but I will share this anecdote

with you. My myofascial release instructor in

chiropractic school was lecturing one day about the

relationship between pelvic restrictions and TMJ

disorders. He had everyone in the room self-test for

TMJ hypomobility by attempting to place three of our

knuckles into our open mouth (standard test for ROM).

He identified one of my classmates who could not pass

the three knuckle test and brought her forward. After

spending about 30 seconds doing some myofascial work

on her pelvis he had her retest herself and she could

effortlessly get three knuckles into her mouth.

I don't claim to understand it. I don't remember what

muscles the instructor worked on. I don't have any

research to wave in anyone's face. I can only say

that I saw it with my own eyes.

Lowry, DC

Dr. Lowry, LLC

1220 Knox Abbott Drive

Suite D

Columbia, SC 29033

USA

--- Casler wrote:

> Fahey wrote:

>

> Several people had questions about treatment for

> plantar fasciitis. I had

> this problem for

> several years. A foot night splint that holds the

> foot at a 90° angle in a

> slight stretch works

> very well. You wear it to bed. I wore the splint for

> three nights, which

> cleared up the problem

> completely. The splint also works well for Achilles

> tendonitis.

>

> Joe wrote:

>

> Plantar Fascitis is often times linked to a jaw

> problem. Seek out a

> qualified soft tissue specialist/ myofascial expert

> such as Dr. Guy Voyer

> www.osteopathy.ca

>

> Have the specialist work the fascia around the jaw

> you should see

> improvement.

>

>

> Casler writes:

>

> While I certainly have seen the prescription and

> results of the " night

> splints " Tom speaks of, I would seriously question

> Joe's assertion.

>

> I have had, and have successfully treated plantar

> fasciitis several times,

> and find that it is always related to a stress or

> repetitive stress, leading

> to soft tissue damage and the resulting inflammation

> cycle.

>

> Joe, I have to say that I am extremely dubious that

> you have a " shred " of

> reason or evidence to support this " link " but would

> certainly be interested

> in your expanding on this link, and the mechanism

> that ties the jaw and the

> plantar fascia together, so that therapy on one will

> heal the other.

>

> Please explain.

>

> Regards,

>

> Casler

> TRI-VECTOR 3-D Force Systems

> Century City, CA

Modify/cancel your subscription at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups

Sign all letters with full name & city of residence if you

wish them to be published!

[Guest guest]

Mike Grafstein wrote:

I am confused with your response. I need some clarification.

Are you disagreeing with my myofascial connection between the jaw and the

plantar fascia?

Casler writes:

Hi Mike,

As I said in my last post. It would be impossible for the jaw and the foot

to be connected to the same body and not be able to map the connection.

But, there is not one shred of evidence that there is a mechanism through

these connections to produce what you claim.

One could easily trace the path from the headlights of a car, and the

exhaust pipe, but we cannot claim that a burned out headlamp will cause the

pipe to get loose.

It would appear that you suggest that a treatment for PF is to treat TMJ.

You have presented absolutely nothing that leads us to that conclusion.

PF is tissue damage and inflammation of the plantar fascia. To my

knowledge, this is caused by a single or repetitive stress.

I want you to explain what in TMJ causes this stress to the PF. To say that

something is " a " cause of something else requires a specific and clear

mechanism, not speculation of " indirect possibilities " through multiple

connections.

I would suggest you experiment on yourself and run, walk, sprint, climb

stairs and perform any activity that you feel stresses the Plantar Fascia.

Hold your jaw in any position you can think of that " you think " may have an

effect on the PF and report back.

Mike Grafstein wrote:

Next are you familiar with fascia and its several layers through out the

body?

Casler writes:

I am, but I do not study them for any purpose.

Mike Grafstein wrote:

Perhaps my background first as a therapist and experience with myofascial

work leaves more me open and receptive to a relationship between the Jaw

and PF. Obviously I haven't enough experience to satisfy your desire for a

specific mechanism.

Casler writes:

If you haven't the experience to report a mechanism, how can you claim a

relationship?

Mike Grafstein wrote:

I still stand behind what I speculated (even though you don't like

speculation).

Casler writes:

I find nothing wrong with well explained speculation and logical

observation. We don't have that here.

Mike Grafstein wrote:

May I suggest you do your own investigation outside of ST to satisfy your

thirst for this information.

I will continue to look for a definitive answer as it will only benefit me

as a therapist in the long run.

Casler writes:

I have no need to investigate something that has no basis to investigate.

If your suggestion were true, most, if not all people who have TMJ would

suffer from PF. This is not the case. TMJ treatment would also be an

accepted therapy for PF. That too is not the case.

You cannot point to a single reason why what you suggest is valid.

I felt it valuable to point that out to the listserve, and feel that further

time spent on the subject is not productive.

Unless you can produce a clear cut, non-speculative mechanism, I consider

the matter closed.

Regards,

Casler

TRI-VECTOR 3-D Force Systems

Century City, CA

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone. Sorry this post is so removed from the original

thread. I am new to the group and have been trying to catch up... I

am currently reading " Anatomy Trains " by W. Myers and may be

able to present a functional mechanism by which " jaw problems " could

have an effect on PF. Although I don't know the specific mechanisms

behind TMJ or other problems with the jaw, if these problems created

stress in the Superficial Back Line or Deep Frontal Line (as defined

in the book " Anatomy Trains " by W Myers) then in could

certainly translate to PF.

For those unfamiliar with Anatomy Trains, an anatomy train describes

continuous fascial networks that exist within the body.

Two such trains are the Superficial Back Line (SBL) and the Deep

Frontal Line (DFL). The Superficial Back Line arises from the

Frontal Brow Ridge and ends at the plantar fascia and short toe

flexors. The Deep Frontal Line tracks the continuous myfascial

connection from the Plantar tarsal bones and plantar surface of the

toes to the jaw. As the SBL and DFL are continuous networks of

fascia, any postural adjustments of the back or neck that cause a

strain in these fascial networks would have the possibility of

effecting the PF.

According to Myers, " it falls to the DFL...to take a large role in

maintaining the proper alignment of the head, neck and upper back "

with the most common problem being " Hyperextension of the upper

cervicals " and this would most definitely affect the SBL as Myers

notes in another section that " Plantar limitation often correlates

with tight hamstrings, lumbar lordosis, and resistant hyperextension

in the upper cervicals. " It can also be noted that the DFL passes

between the SBL and the Superficial Front Line (not defined here)

and is responsible for " helping to support the medial arch during

the push-off phase of walking " (and running I assume).

The Deep Frontal line follows this myofascial track:

tibialis posterior, long toe flexors >> Fascia of popliteus, knee

capsule >> Posterior intermuscular septum, adductor magnus >> Pelvic

floor fascia, levator ani, obturator internus fascia, anterior

sacral fascia >> Anterior intermuscular septum, adductor brevis,

longus >> Psoas, iliacus, pectineus, femoral triangle>> Anterior

longitudinal ligament, longus colli and capitis >> Posterior

diaphragm, crura of diaphragm, central tendon >> Pericardium >>

Fascia prevertebralis, pharyngeal raphe, scalene muscles, medial

scalene fascia, mediastinum, parietal pleura >> anterior diaphragm,

crura of diaphragm, Fascial endothoracica, transversus thoracis >>

Infrahyoid musc les, fascia pretrachialis >> Suprahyoid muscles >>

jaw muscles.

The Superficial Back Line as defined by Myers is as follows:

Plantar fascia and short toe flexors >> Gastrocnemius/Achilles

tendon >> Hamstrings >> Sacrotuberous Ligament >> Sacrolumbar

fascia/erector Spinae >> Galea Aponeurotica/scalp fascia

I hope this helps.

Kathy Rounds

Brighton, MI

>

> It's reasonable to believe that there may be several underlying

> mechanisms that end up contributing to PF, just as headaches and

back

> pain can have different underlying mechanisms. Just because we

> haven't discovered them all yet doesn't mean they don't exist.

>

> Casler writes:

>

> You may believe what you like, but without supporting information,

it isn't

> even " logical speculation " .

>

> The originator of this list, Mel Siff, was not one to allow

unsupported,

> speculative, and magical ideas to be stated as fact.

>

> I engaged Mel many times regarding various subjects and the idea

was always

> to arrive at truth, or further our understanding of a subject.

>

>

> Here is the original statement:

>

>

> ===============

> " Plantar Fascitis is often times linked to a jaw problem. Seek out

a

> qualified soft tissue specialist/ myofascial expert such as Dr.

Guy Voyer

> www.osteopathy.ca

>

> Have the specialist work the fascia around the jaw you should see

> improvement "

> ================

>

>

> My contention is that " jaw problems " have absolutely NO direct

cause/effect

> relationship to plantar fasciitis.

>

> Over several posts, I have not seen " any " mechanism, of any type,

to support

> such a claim.

>

> None, zero, zip....

>

> I am open to there being such, but to begin with, we have to at

least have a

> functional mechanism model that will display cause/effect.

>

> If you have one, please present it. Until one is presented, this

discussion

> is non-productive.

>

> Regards,

>

> Casler

> TRI-VECTOR 3-D Force Systems

> Century City, CA

>