Guest guest Posted May 10, 2000 Report Share Posted May 10, 2000 << Aquarians and Leos are getting these squares and it hits them as though they are walking down the street and something comes flying out of the corner totally unexpectedly. >> So THAT's what I'm seeing! Thought it was migrating thoughts. Thanks, Rainbo! lightly, lightly, phoebe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2000 Report Share Posted May 10, 2000 << Does JF want to be Great Goddess? Then people may go there easily. Or people may stay here and flow along with whatever happens. Then the list should change its name from Jung to Jungian, if he is mentioned at all. The problem has been that we assumed a vision rather than stated it. Jung was a scholar. That should be remembered. >> I see Deb's point here. It was Jung and the energy around his prolific life's work which attracted me to the Jung Circle about three years ago. And it has been the continued interest in Jung which has kept me here. Jung was so huge and so emcompasing that he was open to many points of view, on a vast number of subjects. But I think I am correct in remembering that even Jung himself would have not liked to be a " Jungian. " Perhaps we can overdo the word plays here, but I am more attracted to Jung's scholarly side, as a focus for our joint efforts here. In my own study of Jung's work, what seems to me to distinguish him from all others is the simple fact that he was one of the few who " takes the psyche seriously. " When we do so, here together, and strive to the wholeness which the process of individuation points us toward, I feel I am growing - the my energy and time are rewarded and being used for good purpose. But for this to exclude discussions of tarot, astrology, goddesses, and other offshoots of Jung's work, would be leaving something out which helps us get there too. Before my coming to this list, I never took astrology (as an example) seriously AT ALL. But now I'm open to its possibilities. I have learned much about myths, especially about the Psyche myth, [a discussion to which fa made such an important contribution]. So I feel, somehow, a more whole person for these different perspectives gleaned from my association with each of you. When I don't know or can't contribute much about a particular subject, I just listen in - lurk if you will. But I still enjoy it. If I notice a suject line which does not interest me, I feel free to delete it. No harm done to anyone. Perhaps what I'm trying to convey is that I hope we can retain a healthy balance between the scholarly Jung and the " Jungian, " both of which have been valuable to me. I would prefer not to be a member of several groups, each more narrowly focused. As long as C.G. Jung is the glue which holds this group together, I'll be at home here. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2000 Report Share Posted May 10, 2000 Bear with me. Here is the post seen as distressing and anti-Semetic. It was never run on this list, but on a laid back list that belongs to a poet, so you might have been wondering. In fact, I hope there was wondering, rather than assumptions. I admit, it was black humor, but that doesn't make it racist. I was not furious when I wrote it, nor out of control, etc. as speculated. In fact, I was shaking mah head. I haven't been exchanging mail in a flame war with fa or anyone. I'm haven't been exchanging mail with her at all. _________ From: Mattingly Conner <muse@i...> Date: Fri May 5, 2000 3:23pm Subject: Hot damn! Frances, I'd love to read you work. Shadow -- pass me the bottle. Glenlivit? Hot damn. Public notice: Any mail I've shared has been shared because openness was an issue. Don't want to be a backstabber.. or whatever the charge is today. Changes. Please, publish anything I've said. There's nothing to hide. I'm sorry my famous flaming soul isn't up to snuff. I had no right to throw the money lenders out of the Temple. I will suffer to my dying day for it if it will make everyone feel better. One request, matey: Strangle me first. Promise me. I fear the flame.... ___________________________________end That's all she wrote! (just an expression.) I didn't throw anyone out of any Temple. I simple made a statement asking if this list was about Jung. I wrote mike: ....the Jung Circle vision statement brought people to sign up for this list. We can't use it directly. It has to be put into your own words and you should feel free to mold it to Your vision. But I think it is unfair to stray too far. Note that'in light of Jung's philosophy. This is the lynch pin. I feel that demands a direct reading of Jung. Place yourself in his position. Would you not? You work with original texts, mike. You know what can be lost over time and 'in translation.' Really good scholarship always remembers its source. There are 20 volumes here. If it is Jung, it: is in the 20 volumes. Else it is not Jung and shouldn't be named so. There has to be an atmosphere where where scholarship -- as in study and practice and the discipline of those things -- is understood and thus respected. You seemed the right choice to me to carry on a jung list because you practice as he did. You work with texts from the source, you respect those who wrote them as human beings with arms and feelings etc., and you respect what they were trying to study, synthesis, analyze, catabolize, say about, spiritual matters. And you have a real and appropriately humble, deep, broad respect and care in your 'working' which is part of a discipline and practice. You have a care not to distort and take out of context. --'The hard giving way to the gentle' . By this I meant: Your example (and alice's) should be enough. ___________________________ In passing: The list outlined by Frances yesterday already exists. It is Great Goddess. Does JF want to be Great Goddess? Then people may go there easily. Or people may stay here and flow along with whatever happens. Then the list should change its name from Jung to Jungian, if he is mentioned at all. The problem has been that we assumed a vision rather than stated it. Jung was a scholar. That should be remembered. __________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2000 Report Share Posted May 10, 2000 In a message dated 05/10/2000 4:45:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, toni@... writes: << Sorry to butt in, but is there room for someone who loves Jung's idea but does not understand why it must all be explained astrologically. I don't have the foggiest idea what you astroligers are talking about. And yes,I do realise that Jung himself was interested in astrology. But he explained all those ideas in other images also. Toni >> Of course. It doesn't all have to be explained astrologically, actually, it never has to be explained astrologically. I only offered it as one perspective. Like looking at a holographic sculpture if I stand bottom right and you stand bottom left, we have two completely different sculptures to look at, not to mention the light will enter and exit and be completely different depending on the angle, yes? Much L*L*L Annette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2000 Report Share Posted May 10, 2000 << Of course. It doesn't all have to be explained astrologically, actually, it never has to be explained astrologically. I only offered it as one perspective. Like looking at a holographic sculpture if I stand bottom right and you stand bottom left, we have two completely different sculptures to look at, not to mention the light will enter and exit and be completely different depending on the angle, yes? Much L*L*L Annette >> Just my 2 cents worth, I am in the begining stages of learning about astrology, and while I find your posts a little difficult to follow as yet, I appreciate them and enjoy reading them. Meg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2000 Report Share Posted May 10, 2000 In message , marshkan@... writes >Perhaps what I'm trying to convey is that I hope we can retain a healthy >balance between the scholarly Jung and the " Jungian, " both of which have been >valuable to me. I would prefer not to be a member of several groups, each >more narrowly focused. As long as C.G. Jung is the glue which holds this >group together, I'll be at home here. Dear Greg, Thank you, once again, for a thoughtful, insightful and loving post. I agree with you, Deborah and everyone else who has expressed a desire for this group to be more Jung-centred. I agreed straight away when it was pointed out to me that my forwards from greatgoddess were inappropriate (that was not what the recent fight was about, at least, not on my side). My hurt, anger and over-reactions were due to a feeling of being 'scapegoated'. With a few exceptions (of whom you are one) - most of the posts here have not been Jung-centred of late, and I resented being singled out. I belong to another Jung list as well - and never post my greatgoddess stuff there - the flavour of the list is so different from this one. While I remain on this list, I will endeavour only to send Jung-centred posts in future, as I in fact do on the other list. With regard to yesterday's off-topic post from me - I hadn't looked carefully enough at the post to which I reacted and had missed the fact that Deborah actually sent it to the *other* list to which she and I both belong, not this one. I apologise for misdirecting my reply here. Please be assured that I will not post things here which do not pertain to Jung in future. -- fa http://www.kingseyes.demon.co.uk/greatgoddess.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2000 Report Share Posted May 10, 2000 Sorry to butt in, but is there room for someone who loves Jung's idea but does not understand why it must all be explained astrologically. I don't have the foggiest idea what you astroligers are talking about. And yes,I do realise that Jung himself was interested in astrology. But he explained all those ideas in other images also. Toni Rainbolily@... wrote: > In a message dated 05/09/2000 6:43:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > trimeter@... writes: > > << > Can we rename this group? And can we hear some earth > and water perspectives. > >> > Morning, > > I have almost no earth, you're sooooo surprised, i know. > > This is an excellent suggestion. When this group began we had a Mercury > retrograde in a weak sign. Mercury and the Third House, would be rulers > of email lists. Mercury is exalted in Virgo and Rules Gemini, and as all > the planets are now direct (except Pluto) and Mercury is about to enter > Gemini, it would be a great time to rename this list, especially for your > sake Mike. > > It is totally unsurprising that we would have a discussion on Values right > now. All the planets are lined up in Taurus which has to do with values, > systems of values, organization of values, practicalities, how we view our > own values and those of others. Uranus ruling Aquarius is transiting > Aquarius and squaring all these planets, especially Saturn in Taurus. Saturn > in Taurus has traditionally brought changes in the structures of values, and > frankly, we're transiting this as a world unit very well. The last few times > we had squares to Saturn in Taurus we had World Wars, so, a few disruptions > on an email list are clean sailing through a very small squall on the sea. > > Uranus brings in the higher octave of Mercury, Mercury being the traditional > messenger, Uranos bringing the mutation which jumps forward our genetic > movement. Yes, of course sometimes the mutations are less beneficial, and > then they fizzle out. For us as humans, Uranus governs the crown chakra, and > brings in the lightening intuition of the incredible beauty of the divine. > > Squaring the practical genius of Taurus from the brilliance of lightening Air > Aquarius, we have all gone through many changes in our perspectives deciding > how we wish to spend our time (values) how we wish to contribute our values > to the world, how we wish to allow the Light of Divine to travel through us > and clear blockages by looking at others. > > Aquarians and Leos are getting these squares and it hits them as though they > are walking down the street and something comes flying out of the corner > totally unexpectedly. They are so busy with the constant new corners they > have all they can do to continue walking the street. Scorpios are seeing > this coming towards them through the actions of others. > > In both cases, it is always wise to understand that our projections are a > part of the energies we draw to us to help us learn and heal. And, only when > we've resolved our issues internally, do the issues disappear to have new > ones take their place. Having had these squares for 15 years now from > Capricorn, and then a lovely little transit of Pluto on my t-square, you all > have my complete empathies. > > The excellent news is that when we finish squares, we move into trines. Most > of you will not have these transits from the outer planets for more than a > year, at most two. When one has a stellium of planets though (many planets > in one sign or two signs which are all conjunct and aspecting each other) > then the transits go on and on and they can wear one a bit thin to say the > least. Again, my empathies as I have a stellium spanning 22 degrees and > including five planets, north node and a star, Spica. > > The great news is the trines go on and on too, and all that we learned > through the squares we can manifest when the trines begin and it is truly > fantastic. > > This can be a very safe place to work out projections, it sure beats the hell > out of missiles and think what an enormous contribution you are making by > providing the list Mike. I've also run lists and chatrooms and I do > empathize with the constant need for limits and guidelines. > > I love the diamond and the container idea, we don't toss diamonds around, we > carefully treasure rare gems of thoughts and nuances. > > Much Love Light and Blessings, I have no right to spend time here but I > simply miss you all and send you much love before I begin a beautiful but > very busy day here, > ~ bo ~ Annette > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Up to 60% OFF food! > Buy Now and Shipping is Free. > http://click./1/4016/9/_/642966/_/957959257/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2000 Report Share Posted May 10, 2000 Annette, Do you think it is necessary for me to learn some astrology in order to understand Jung better? I know nothing about it, and for years thought of it as an " occult " subject best left undisturbed. Nowadays, I no longer feel anything like that but I cannot grasp how the movements of planets can have an effect on me???? (OK I know the moon effects the tides...so obviously there is some interaction) I really feel stupid on the subject! Toni Rainbolily@... wrote: > In a message dated 05/10/2000 4:45:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > toni@... writes: > > << Sorry to butt in, but is there room for someone who loves Jung's idea but > does > not understand why it must all be explained astrologically. I don't have the > foggiest idea what you astroligers are talking about. And yes,I do realise > that > Jung himself was interested in astrology. But he explained all those ideas in > other images also. > Toni >> > > Of course. It doesn't all have to be explained astrologically, actually, it > never > has to be explained astrologically. I only offered it as one perspective. > > Like looking at a holographic sculpture if I stand bottom right and you stand > bottom left, we have two completely different sculptures to look at, not to > mention the light will enter and exit and be completely different depending on > the angle, yes? > > Much L*L*L > Annette > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Remember four years of good friends, bad clothes, explosive chemistry > experiments. > http://click./1/4051/9/_/642966/_/957997250/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2000 Report Share Posted May 11, 2000 Toni, I would move in whatever direction you feel most inclined to move. Jung began his astrology late, and I think many of us studying eventually move towards metaphysical and spiritual topics. I think each of us has our own talents and paths to bring, for some it is music, art, writing. For myself, meditation has helped immensley to get in touch with the flow of Divine. I try, I mess up, I fall down, I scrape my knees, and I get back up and say, " sorry, not very good at following directions. " If you feel so inclined, go for it, Alice Howell's books (IonaDove) were the most inspirational to me and were the first books I bought twenty years ago. AND, The Dove in the Stone has just arrived at the bookstore, so, I may go and pick it up! Am very much looking forward to reading her incredibly deep and beautiful wisdom. Finding her here on the list was one of the most delightful experiences of being on the internet, I feel truly blessed to read her. Must run, much L*L*L Annette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2000 Report Share Posted May 11, 2000 Hello all, Greg writes, >But for this to exclude discussions of tarot, astrology, >goddesses, and other offshoots of Jung's work, would be leaving something >out >which helps us get there too. [snip] >Perhaps what I'm trying to convey is that I hope we can retain a healthy >balance between the scholarly Jung and the " Jungian, " both of which have >been >valuable to me. And, to me, also. My own opinion is that as long as something relates to the individuation of the participants, it's valuable for it to be here. I suppose that puts me in one of the camps here! In my camp I suppose myself to be far short of a knowing which may accurately sort out exactly what is Jung, " on-topic " , and what merely is real and paradoxical and honest and golden. I err on the side of inclusiveness and an expansive vision. *** I believe the personal report with respect to what's going on *inside* for each of us is like a gentle rain that is necessary for the group to nurture its life. Otherwise, its my observation that things become kind of 'dry' around here and then we develop (and I believe we do so unconsciously; pardon me!) a pecking order of expertise and an unproductive and unrelated gatekeeping function. In my view its about walking the talk of birthing the feminine. I wouldn't say it's easy. I like it when our hands reach down and turn over the moist, rich black soil, and, it's our fortune that people choose to do this when they do. *** Of course, I may be in error! *** peace. in Clepheland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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