Re: Various Approaches to Multi-Set Training

[Guest guest]

Some thoughts in general first, I am not sure if you stated the exact goal of

this training....mass, strength, power, speed???....for example I am a

powerlifter so I would basically never mess around with a 10RM....I have no clue

what any of my 10RMs are.

To my understanding, 4x10 would basically be for hypertrophy.

You ask which of the following would be more benefical:

1) roughly 70% (210lbs) for 4x10

2) Begin with 10RM (roughly 230lbs) for set 1, decreasing slightly

to allow for 10 reps on each consecutive set

3) Begin with 200lbs, attempt to work up to 230 for 10 reps on set 4

Again, I think it depends on the goal.

Another thing that I am learning and that I always come back

to.....we are always looking for " whats best " .....in that respect I

think the question itself is flawed.....maybe it would be better to

ask " whats best RIGHT NOW " (for this phase etc).

Lets say one of those approaches you listed actually WERE " the best " .

Well what if you had used that method already for 8 weeks?? Would it

still be the best at that point? Would you do it again for another 8

weeks? Probably not, because at that point it would be better to go

to even a " less effective " method to give the body a fresh stimulus.

I think that it is ideal to do some sort of cycling....as opposed to

just going in and doing the same old workout week after week month

after month....and there are MANY methods available....from Sheiko,

to Westside, to the CT thing you listed etc....I think that as long

as you are doing SOME kind of cycling you are on the right track.

One thing I like to do is cycle things as far as having one week be

more volume, one week more intensity but slightly less volume etc,

and to use the vol and intensity variables to vary each week..with

the last week of the month usually being a deload (see various

articles by Jack Reape such as " Peaking on Demand " and " Cycle, Peak,

Taper, Dominate " and " Back Off and Grow! " etc).

The three methods you listed are all workable...I think if you used

them at different times or for different reasons that they would

all " work " :

*Method " 2 " would be the most intense IMO...this would be mainly for

mass training IMO...you could go to failure on each set if you wanted

to...very intense.

*Method " 3 " would be the least intense IMO....since you are " saving

yourself " on the way up.

*Method " 1 " is sort of the " medium " approach and is probably best for

overall use.

If you go by the theory presented in the Russian manuals that out of

4 weeks training you would have 1 hard, 2 mediums, 1 " easy " week you

would use method " 2 " for your " hard " week......method " 1 " for your

two medium weeks...then method " 3 " for your easy week (again, also

varying the volume and not always using a 10RM).

ly I think most trainers in the USA, NEVER use enough volume in

their training...in that regard I think your method " 1 " would be

important for the average trainee....get them used to the idea of

doing multiple sets at the same weight etc to raise their

volume.......rather, what most people do is more like

method " 3 " ...where they " work up " to a heavy double or single....of

course they " save it " on the way up and then they just do those

couple of heavy sets....they do this year round....where is the

volume/base at with that method??? they they try to " peak " and there

is no " base " established so they have nothing TO peak.

For comparison you should chart out all 3 of those methods to figure

out the total volume and avg intensity to see the differences.

For example method " 1 " ..the guy has a 300lb max.

ok, so he does 4x10 at 210?....counting everything over 50% it would

add up like this

lets say he does this to warmup:

45x10

95x5

135x5

175x3

210 for 4 sets of 10

ok, the sets below 135 arent counted (less than 50%)

so we have

175x3=525

210x40=8400

total volume=8925

8925/43 reps = 223.1 avg weight

223.1/ 300max = 74.4% avg intensity

I have a feeling if you plotted out those other methods youd find

that " 2 " would be the most intense, " 3 " the least intense

Randy

Danville, Va

>

> I am wondering what some member's thoughts are regarding different

> approaches to multi-set training. Specifically, guidelines for

> intensity when dealing with multiple sets of the same exercise.

>

> For example, when performing 4x10 (4 sets of 10 reps) in the bench

> press, there are several intensity schemes which one can choose, a

few

> of which are:

>

> 1) constant weight: utilize an 11-13RM for all sets, which would

> allow one to complete (hopefully) all 10 reps on the last set

> 2) Descending: Begin with 10RM and decrease weight slightly from

one

> set to the next to allow 10 reps on all sets

> 3) Ascending: work up, in small increments, to a 10RM on last set

>

> I am currently using an abbreviated " block " system popularized by

> Canadian strength coach Christian Thibaudeau. Three different

blocks

> are used, each lasting one week, and are structured in a " pendulum "

> fashion, where I go from block 1 (hypertrophy) to block 2

> (hypertrophy/strength) to block 3 (strength/power) back to block 2

> (hypertrophy/strength) to block 1 (hypertrophy) to block 2

> (hypertrophy/strength), etc...

>

> General volume/set/rep schemes for each block:

>

> Block 1:

> muscle groups worked 1-2x/wk

> 3-4 exercises/muscle group

> 3-4 sets/exercise

> 8-15 reps/set

>

> Block 2:

> muscle groups worked 1-2x/wk

> 3-4 sets/exercise

> 2-3 exercises/muscle group

> 5-8 reps/set

>

> Block 3:

> muscle groups worked 3x week (full body)

> 1-2 exercises/muscle groups (compound lifts only)

> 5-8 sets/exercise

> 2-4 reps/set

>

> To clarify, again, I'll use the bench press as an example (assume a

> 300lb 1RM)

> which of the following intensity loading schemes would be most

> beneficial when performing, for example, 4x10:

>

> 1) roughly 70% (210lbs) for 4x10

> 2) Begin with 10RM (roughly 230lbs) for set 1, decreasing slightly

to

> allow for 10 reps on each consecutive set

> 3) Begin with 200lbs, attempt to work up to 230 for 10 reps on set

4

>

> Any help would be greatly appreciated.

>

> Thanks,

> Ken Manning

> Scranton, PA USA

>