Re: IEP Meeting :-(

[Guest guest]

Kathi,

Would you believe she does have a TSS in the classroom with her full-time?

Everyone just keeps telling me about how stubborn she is. She does have chutzpah - but she is a darling angel with a mind of her own!

I've attached a pic.

Thank you!

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

-- RE: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi Carolyn,

Sorry for chiming in so late. I'm just getting to emails. We're sort of neighbors...we live in Lehigh County, PA (Whitehall, to be exact). Our daughter, Tess, age 7 with ds, went to catholic school (in the town Diocese, same as you) from age 18 months until we enrolled her in public kindergarten last year. However, she didn't go to a typical preschool. She went 5 days each week (beginning at age 3) to Mercy Special Learning Center, where the toddler and preschool programs are integrated classrooms in which about 1/3 to 1/2 of the children have special needs, and the remainder of the students are typically-developing kids. It was a great experience. But given that the diocese STRONGLY believes in the model of segregated learning for children with special needs once they hit school age, I think you are on an uphill battle if you choose to remain in the Catholic school setting. And I'm pretty sure that an advocate is not the answer at this stage, since there is no legal obligation for the parochial school to provide Olivia with her education. If the school were open to learning how to include Olivia so that she is working towards her individual goals as part of the classroom with typically-developing peers, then perhaps a consultant would be helpful. I really didn't hear the door opening very wide for that.

However, there are many other options for preschool education, with supports, that might better meet Olivia's needs. I'm curious about her IEP goals, that preceded the recommendation for the special classroom. With appropriate IEP goals and proper supports, there is no reason for Olivia to require a segregated classroom placement. The question is, particularly at the preschool level, where do you find the typical classroom that is open to providing and/or welcoming in the appropriate supports. They are out there, but it takes some work. And with the requirement you described of needing to pass a test to qualify for kindergarten admission, it seems that the current school is not that school.

I would recommend that you call the Eastern Pennsylvania Down Syndrome Center, located in Trexlertown, PA. They have wonderful professionals there...the one coordinator, Patti Mertz, in particular, has a background in teaching and her son is now a teenager. She trailblazed inclusive learning models in the Kutztown School District, a very small, somewhat rural school district that didn't know anything about appropriate inclusive education when she began challenging them back in the '90s. She has been a wonderful resource and support for our family, and could probably give you some guidance as well.

Hope there's something of value in this long, rambling message.

Kathi

From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of runmuchSent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 9:10 PMTo: DownSyndromeInfoExchange ; ourmostbeautifulchildren Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi all,

We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 - turning 4 next month). Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days per week. This is her second year of the three-year old program. The end recommendation of the IEP was to have her attend special education preschool as well as typical. 50/50 Split. This is because Olivia has not met all of her goals for the past year.

I had hoped to just keep her in typical school for as long as I could. I didn't think I'd have to face this decision until 4th or 5th grade. This hit me like a ton of bricks. However, I don't have it in me to ignore a recommendation that could potentially BETTER my child.

Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is not showing much progress in any area. I see little improvements here and there, and I REJOICE in them. Her typical preschool teacher was present at the meeting today and came right out and told me that she doesn't have the TIME to put in the repetition necessary for Olivia to pick up a concept. That made me very angry and brought me to tears. I excused myself from the room until I could gain composure and came back to ask her, "Is Olivia not welcome at your school?". She told me that she loves having Olivia as part of the class, but she thinks that being in special school as well as typical will really help her.

This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school

Has this approach worked for anyone here?

At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into Kindergarten? (I was planning on age 7 if that's possible!)

Has anyone here ever gone against a 'recommendation' of an IEP meeting?

Also, were or are your children still very much BABIES at the age of 4? Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and 2 years of age right now. Will I see her catch up soon?

Thank you,

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

[Guest guest]

You're absolutely right, !

Thank you!

Carolyn

-- Re: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Oh yea, I see that look... has that look...the 'Oh No? Watch me' look!

Yes, stubborn is on the 21st chromosome, but a nicer way to say stubborn is DETERMINATION, PERSEVERANCE and NEVER GIVE UP!

And THOSE are the qualities that make us all strong and successful no matter what.

, Mom to 15, DS, Southern CaliforniaTo succeed in life,you need three things:a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.~ Reba McIntyre

Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or Parents with a Prenatal Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html

RE: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi Carolyn,

Sorry for chiming in so late. I'm just getting to emails. We're sort of neighbors...we live in Lehigh County, PA (Whitehall, to be exact). Our daughter, Tess, age 7 with ds, went to catholic school (in the town Diocese, same as you) from age 18 months until we enrolled her in public kindergarten last year. However, she didn't go to a typical preschool. She went 5 days each week (beginning at age 3) to Mercy Special Learning Center, where the toddler and preschool programs are integrated classrooms in which about 1/3 to 1/2 of the children have special needs, and the remainder of the students are typically-developing kids. It was a great experience. But given that the diocese STRONGLY believes in the model of segregated learning for children with special needs once they hit school age, I think you are on an uphill battle if you choose to remain in the Catholic school setting. And I'm pretty sure that an advocate is not the answer at this stage, since there is no legal obligation for the parochial school to provide Olivia with her education. If the school were open to learning how to include Olivia so that she is working towards her individual goals as part of the classroom with typically-developing peers, then perhaps a consultant would be helpful. I really didn't hear the door opening very wide for that.

However, there are many other options for preschool education, with supports, that might better meet Olivia's needs. I'm curious about her IEP goals, that preceded the recommendation for the special classroom. With appropriate IEP goals and proper supports, there is no reason for Olivia to require a segregated classroom placement. The question is, particularly at the preschool level, where do you find the typical classroom that is open to providing and/or welcoming in the appropriate supports. They are out there, but it takes some work. And with the requirement you described of needing to pass a test to qualify for kindergarten admission, it seems that the current school is not that school.

I would recommend that you call the Eastern Pennsylvania Down Syndrome Center, located in Trexlertown, PA. They have wonderful professionals there...the one coordinator, Patti Mertz, in particular, has a background in teaching and her son is now a teenager. She trailblazed inclusive learning models in the Kutztown School District, a very small, somewhat rural school district that didn't know anything about appropriate inclusive education when she began challenging them back in the '90s. She has been a wonderful resource and support for our family, and could probably give you some guidance as well.

Hope there's something of value in this long, rambling message.

Kathi

From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of runmuchSent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 9:10 PMTo: DownSyndromeInfoExchange ; ourmostbeautifulchildren Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi all,

We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 - turning 4 next month). Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days per week. This is her second year of the three-year old program. The end recommendation of the IEP was to have her attend special education preschool as well as typical. 50/50 Split. This is because Olivia has not met all of her goals for the past year.

I had hoped to just keep her in typical school for as long as I could. I didn't think I'd have to face this decision until 4th or 5th grade. This hit me like a ton of bricks. However, I don't have it in me to ignore a recommendation that could potentially BETTER my child.

Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is not showing much progress in any area. I see little improvements here and there, and I REJOICE in them. Her typical preschool teacher was present at the meeting today and came right out and told me that she doesn't have the TIME to put in the repetition necessary for Olivia to pick up a concept. That made me very angry and brought me to tears. I excused myself from the room until I could gain composure and came back to ask her, "Is Olivia not welcome at your school?". She told me that she loves having Olivia as part of the class, but she thinks that being in special school as well as typical will really help her.

This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school

Has this approach worked for anyone here?

At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into Kindergarten? (I was planning on age 7 if that's possible!)

Has anyone here ever gone against a 'recommendation' of an IEP meeting?

Also, were or are your children still very much BABIES at the age of 4? Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and 2 years of age right now. Will I see her catch up soon?

Thank you,

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

[Guest guest]

Wow, ! These are EXCELLENT sites!

Thank you!

I have some reading to do...............

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

-- Re: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

I remember a few years ago about an Inclusion Plan being written (perhaps by the Schriver family) for Catholic schools...I just googled and here's what I found:

Exceptional Catholic MN-Promoting inclusion in the classroom

http://www.exceptionalcatholicmn.com/

did you know about the National CAtholic Educational Association? Here's their Special Ed services page:

http://www.ncea.org/public/IDEASpecialEducation.asp

Catholic High School--Can inclusion work...

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-31150539_ITM

This one is about a degree in CAtholic school inclusive education

http://www.lmu.edu/Page20895.aspx

A lot of resources for educators:

http://www.childdevelopmentmedia.com/elementary-school-inclusion.html

I have a friend who is an advocate and she taught a class about inclusion yesterday...the reality is just about ANYWHERE it takes a lot

of work to successfully include a child with DS...and sadly parents have to either hire an expert or become an expert in order to make it a success.

The happiest day of my life was when I ran into the school psychologist at 's elementary school last year (grocery store) She told me about a little girl who had been in the special ed preschool program at the school (which was also her home school) and as they were planning her transisiton from preschool to kindergarten her mother asked to see EVERY SDC class in the district.

Here's the conversation that was relayed to me:

Principal, "You are welcome to see the special ed classes, but she can attend here at her home school in a regular education class with supports."

Mother: "She can? But would she be able to learn anything in a regular class?"

School psyc: "Yes, she will most likely learn a lot more in a regular class than in a segregated class. She will make friends in the neighborhood too."

Mother: "But how could this work?"

Principal: "We've included several students with Down syndrome here very successfully. Our teachers know how to do it and line up to volunteer. We have classroom assistants to help her. We have a person who will modify the curriculum and materials to her ability level. She will have 21 teachers in every class--1 credentialed teacher, 1 aide and 19 other students."

------SEAN WAS THE PIONEER at this school 9 years ago---you can make a difference for other students in the future too!

(of course intermediate school was a whole other story, but High school is shaping up to be good)

, Mom to 15, DS, Southern CaliforniaTo succeed in life,you need three things:a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.~ Reba McIntyre

Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or Parents with a Prenatal Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html

RE: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi Carolyn,

Sorry for chiming in so late. I'm just getting to emails. We're sort of neighbors...we live in Lehigh County, PA (Whitehall, to be exact). Our daughter, Tess, age 7 with ds, went to catholic school (in the town Diocese, same as you) from age 18 months until we enrolled her in public kindergarten last year. However, she didn't go to a typical preschool. She went 5 days each week (beginning at age 3) to Mercy Special Learning Center, where the toddler and preschool programs are integrated classrooms in which about 1/3 to 1/2 of the children have special needs, and the remainder of the students are typically-developing kids. It was a great experience. But given that the diocese STRONGLY believes in the model of segregated learning for children with special needs once they hit school age, I think you are on an uphill battle if you choose to remain in the Catholic school setting. And I'm pretty sure that an advocate is not the answer at this stage, since there is no legal obligation for the parochial school to provide Olivia with her education. If the school were open to learning how to include Olivia so that she is working towards her individual goals as part of the classroom with typically-developing peers, then perhaps a consultant would be helpful. I really didn't hear the door opening very wide for that.

However, there are many other options for preschool education, with supports, that might better meet Olivia's needs. I'm curious about her IEP goals, that preceded the recommendation for the special classroom. With appropriate IEP goals and proper supports, there is no reason for Olivia to require a segregated classroom placement. The question is, particularly at the preschool level, where do you find the typical classroom that is open to providing and/or welcoming in the appropriate supports. They are out there, but it takes some work. And with the requirement you described of needing to pass a test to qualify for kindergarten admission, it seems that the current school is not that school.

I would recommend that you call the Eastern Pennsylvania Down Syndrome Center, located in Trexlertown, PA. They have wonderful professionals there...the one coordinator, Patti Mertz, in particular, has a background in teaching and her son is now a teenager. She trailblazed inclusive learning models in the Kutztown School District, a very small, somewhat rural school district that didn't know anything about appropriate inclusive education when she began challenging them back in the '90s. She has been a wonderful resource and support for our family, and could probably give you some guidance as well.

Hope there's something of value in this long, rambling message.

Kathi

From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of runmuchSent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 9:10 PMTo: DownSyndromeInfoExchange ; ourmostbeautifulchildren Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi all,

We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 - turning 4 next month). Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days per week. This is her second year of the three-year old program. The end recommendation of the IEP was to have her attend special education preschool as well as typical. 50/50 Split. This is because Olivia has not met all of her goals for the past year.

I had hoped to just keep her in typical school for as long as I could. I didn't think I'd have to face this decision until 4th or 5th grade. This hit me like a ton of bricks. However, I don't have it in me to ignore a recommendation that could potentially BETTER my child.

Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is not showing much progress in any area. I see little improvements here and there, and I REJOICE in them. Her typical preschool teacher was present at the meeting today and came right out and told me that she doesn't have the TIME to put in the repetition necessary for Olivia to pick up a concept. That made me very angry and brought me to tears. I excused myself from the room until I could gain composure and came back to ask her, "Is Olivia not welcome at your school?". She told me that she loves having Olivia as part of the class, but she thinks that being in special school as well as typical will really help her.

This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school

Has this approach worked for anyone here?

At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into Kindergarten? (I was planning on age 7 if that's possible!)

Has anyone here ever gone against a 'recommendation' of an IEP meeting?

Also, were or are your children still very much BABIES at the age of 4? Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and 2 years of age right now. Will I see her catch up soon?

Thank you,

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

[Guest guest]

Oh, Carolyn, I really feel for you! I remember all those feelings of not knowing what to do and feeling like I didn't have any answers.

First of all, you know your child BEST. Not the preschool teacher and not the other members of the IEP team.

Second, you will have difficulty in a private preschool because they are not bound by law to teach your child.

Third, there is no magic special education place that will catch your child up to all the typical children. Her best bet of keeping up is to learn with the typical kids. Please, do not allow her to be segregated at such an early age. How would she ever catch up?

If she is still "baby like" at 4 (Faith was too) how about another year of the 3 year old class?

Faith was in a chuch preschool from age 3 through age 5, started public kindergarten (full inclusion, no aide) at 6, then repeated kindergarten. Now she is in 4th grade, mainstreamed for all but math and reading. No other children with DS at her school have this placement. They are all segregated. That is the norm.

You need to decide now whether you want the norm or you want your daughter to be included in the mainstream.

Sorry, I have to go to bed...but I'll write more tomorrow. There is lots of support for you out here!

ette

-------------- Original message from "runmuch" : --------------

Hi all,

We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 - turning 4 next month). Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days per week. This is her second year of the three-year old program. The end recommendation of the IEP was to have her attend special education preschool as well as typical. 50/50 Split. This is because Olivia has not met all of her goals for the past year.

I had hoped to just keep her in typical school for as long as I could. I didn't think I'd have to face this decision until 4th or 5th grade. This hit me like a ton of bricks. However, I don't have it in me to ignore a recommendation that could potentially BETTER my child.

Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is not showing much progress in any area. I see little improvements here and there, and I REJOICE in them. Her typical preschool teacher was present at the meeting today and came right out and told me that she doesn't have the TIME to put in the repetition necessary for Olivia to pick up a concept. That made me very angry and brought me to tears. I excused myself from the room until I could gain composure and came back to ask her, "Is Olivia not welcome at your school?". She told me that she loves having Olivia as part of the class, but she thinks that being in special school as well as typical will really help her.

This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school.

Has this approach worked for anyone here?

At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into Kindergarten? (I was planning on age 7 if that's possible!)

Has anyone here ever gone against a 'recommendation' of an IEP meeting?

Also, were or are your children still very much BABIES at the age of 4? Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and 2 years of age right now. Will I see her catch up soon?

Thank you,

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

[Guest guest]

Thank you, ette.

Olivia will be in mainstream on Mondays and Fridays - and in special school on Wednesdays and Thursdays - at least, that is the proposal.

I really wouldn't be segregating her at that point, right?

I feel so sick over this.

My husband thinks she should go to both schools. I feel that she needs MORE than what she's getting at her typical preschool, but I don't know where or how to get it. I don't do well with teaching her things myself. She is always off in 'another world'. She's all over the place. It's frustrating and days like this just break my heart over and over.

You know, I dress her up in the best clothes - I put her hair up in curlers every day. I only buy her Ralph , etc..... I have her in ballet class. I think that people will accept her more by the way I doll her up! I know - I'm nuts for thinking this way. I just love her so much. I just want her to have the most NORMAL LIFE POSSIBLE.

I'm ranting - I'm sitting here crying after drinking a Mike's Hard Lemonade!!!

Ack!

I feel like I'm not doing enough for her - and I am already exhausted beyond belief.

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

-- Re: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Oh, Carolyn, I really feel for you! I remember all those feelings of not knowing what to do and feeling like I didn't have any answers.First of all, you know your child BEST. Not the preschool teacher and not the other members of the IEP team. Second, you will have difficulty in a private preschool because they are not bound by law to teach your child.Third, there is no magic special education place that will catch your child up to all the typical children. Her best bet of keeping up is to learn with the typical kids. Please, do not allow her to be segregated at such an early age. How would she ever catch up?If she is still "baby like" at 4 (Faith was too) how about another year of the 3 year old class?Faith was in a chuch preschool from age 3 through age 5, started public kindergarten (full inclusion, no aide) at 6, then repeated kindergarten. Now she is in 4th grade, mainstreamed for all but math and reading. No other children with DS at her school have this placement. They are all segregated. That is the norm.You need to decide now whether you want the norm or you want your daughter to be included in the mainstream.Sorry, I have to go to bed...but I'll write more tomorrow. There is lots of support for you out here!ette-------------- Original message from "runmuch" : -------------- Hi all,We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 - turning 4 next month). Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days per week. This is her second year of the three-year old program. The end recommendation of the IEP was to have her attend special education preschool as well as typical. 50/50 Split. This is because Olivia has not met all of her goals for the past year.I had hoped to just keep her in typical school for as long as I could. I didn't think I'd have to face this decision until 4th or 5th grade. This hit me like a ton of bricks. However, I don't have it in me to ignore a recommendation that could potentially BETTER my child. Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is not showing much progress in any area. I see little improvements here and there, and I REJOICE in them. Her typical preschool teacher was present at the meeting today and came right out and told me that she doesn't have the TIME to put in the repetition necessary for Olivia to pick up a concept. That made me very angry and brought me to tears. I excused myself from the room until I could gain composure and came back to ask her, "Is Olivia not welcome at your school?". She told me that she loves having Olivia as part of the class, but she thinks that being in special school as well as typical will really help her.This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school.Has this approach worked for anyone here?At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into Kindergarten? (I was planning on age 7 if that's possible!)Has anyone here ever gone against a 'recommendation' of an IEP meeting?Also, were or are your children still very much BABIES at the age of 4? Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and 2 years of age right now. Will I see her catch up soon? Thank you,Carolyn http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA! 'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

[Guest guest]

HI

Im Sheryl and my son Chaim is 3.5. He attends typical jewish preschool and the

IU provides a Personal Care Assistant for all hrs he is there. SHe is there to

help him in any way with what he needs extra support for. I know the IUs dont

consistantly offer this but they need to. there are court cases supporting the

need for real inclusion in anyway possible and the PCA allows for this. SHe is

able to provide what the teacher cant.

Please speak with an advocate and request another meeting. It is your right.

Sheryl

>

> Subject: Re: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

> To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange

> Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 2:25 AM

> Thank you, ette.

>

> Olivia will be in mainstream on Mondays and Fridays - and

> in special school

> on Wednesdays and Thursdays - at least, that is the

> proposal.

>

> I really wouldn't be segregating her at that point,

> right?

>

> I feel so sick over this.

>

> My husband thinks she should go to both schools. I feel

> that she needs MORE

> than what she's getting at her typical preschool, but I

> don't know where or

> how to get it. I don't do well with teaching her things

> myself. She is

> always off in 'another world'. She's all over

> the place. It's frustrating

> and days like this just break my heart over and over.

>

> You know, I dress her up in the best clothes - I put her

> hair up in curlers

> every day. I only buy her Ralph , etc..... I have

> her in ballet

> class. I think that people will accept her more by the way

> I doll her up! I

> know - I'm nuts for thinking this way. I just love her

> so much. I just want

> her to have the most NORMAL LIFE POSSIBLE.

>

> I'm ranting - I'm sitting here crying after

> drinking a Mike's Hard

> Lemonade!!!

>

> Ack!

>

> I feel like I'm not doing enough for her - and I am

> already exhausted beyond

> belief.

>

> Carolyn

>

>

>

>

> http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

>

>

> We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at

> Black Diamond Antiques

> in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

>

>

> 'Don't worry about the world coming to an end

> today.

> It's already tomorrow in Australia '

> ( Schultz)

>

>

> -- Re: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

>

> Oh, Carolyn, I really feel for you! I remember all those

> feelings of not

> knowing what to do and feeling like I didn't have any

> answers.

> First of all, you know your child BEST. Not the preschool

> teacher and not

> the other members of the IEP team.

> Second, you will have difficulty in a private preschool

> because they are not

> bound by law to teach your child.

> Third, there is no magic special education place that will

> catch your child

> up to all the typical children. Her best bet of keeping up

> is to learn with

> the typical kids. Please, do not allow her to be segregated

> at such an early

> age. How would she ever catch up?

> If she is still " baby like " at 4 (Faith was too)

> how about another year of

> the 3 year old class?

> Faith was in a chuch preschool from age 3 through age 5,

> started public

> kindergarten (full inclusion, no aide) at 6, then repeated

> kindergarten. Now

> she is in 4th grade, mainstreamed for all but math and

> reading. No other

> children with DS at her school have this placement. They

> are all segregated.

> That is the norm.

> You need to decide now whether you want the norm or you

> want your daughter

> to be included in the mainstream.

> Sorry, I have to go to bed...but I'll write more

> tomorrow. There is lots of

> support for you out here!

> ette

> -------------- Original message from " runmuch "

> :

> --------------

>

> Hi all,

>

> We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 - turning 4

> next month).

> Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days per week.

> This is her

> second year of the three-year old program. The end

> recommendation of the

> IEP was to have her attend special education preschool as

> well as typical.

> 50/50 Split. This is because Olivia has not met all of her

> goals for the

> past year.

>

> I had hoped to just keep her in typical school for as long

> as I could. I

> didn't think I'd have to face this decision until

> 4th or 5th grade. This hit

> me like a ton of bricks. However, I don't have it in me

> to ignore a

> recommendation that could potentially BETTER my child.

>

> Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is not showing much

> progress in any

> area. I see little improvements here and there, and I

> REJOICE in them. Her

> typical preschool teacher was present at the meeting today

> and came right

> out and told me that she doesn't have the TIME to put

> in the repetition

> necessary for Olivia to pick up a concept. That made me

> very angry and

> brought me to tears. I excused myself from the room until I

> could gain

> composure and came back to ask her, " Is Olivia not

> welcome at your school? " .

> She told me that she loves having Olivia as part of the

> class, but she

> thinks that being in special school as well as typical will

> really help her.

>

> This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her

> kindergarten

> testing in order to STAY in typical school.

>

> Has this approach worked for anyone here?

>

> At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into Kindergarten? (I

> was planning on

> age 7 if that's possible!)

>

> Has anyone here ever gone against a

> 'recommendation' of an IEP meeting?

>

> Also, were or are your children still very much BABIES at

> the age of 4?

> Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and 2

> years of age right now.

> Will I see her catch up soon?

>

> Thank you,

> Carolyn

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

>

>

> We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at

> Black Diamond Antiques

> in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

>

>

> 'Don't worry about the world coming to an end

> today.

> It's already tomorrow in Australia '

> ( Schultz)

[Guest guest]

I live in PA.

An advocate? Where do I get one?

Thank you!

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

-- Re: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Carolyn wrote: This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school.

Where do you live? You need an advocate. Or spend a gazillion hours learning the law...our kids are afforded accomodations and they don't have to 'qualify' for 'typical' school in the US...are you in another country?

Do both 'special' and typical preschool...but do not ever give up the typical school at all...and when she's 5, decide if you need to wait one more year and send her to kindergarten at age 6, but don't give up on her now! The gains when they come come in spurts and you will blink and she will be a smart-ass teen age girl telling you taht you are the worse mom in the world for not taking her to High School Musical 3 TOMORROW because THAT is the day it opens! (oh, I digress, that's 'my' son!)

, Mom to 15, DS, Southern CaliforniaTo succeed in life,you need three things:a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.~ Reba McIntyre

Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or Parents with a Prenatal Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html

[DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi all,

We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 - turning 4 next month). Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days per week. This is her second year of the three-year old program. The end recommendation of the IEP was to have her attend special education preschool as well as typical. 50/50 Split. This is because Olivia has not met all of her goals for the past year.

I had hoped to just keep her in typical school for as long as I could. I didn't think I'd have to face this decision until 4th or 5th grade. This hit me like a ton of bricks. However, I don't have it in me to ignore a recommendation that could potentially BETTER my child.

Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is not showing much progress in any area. I see little improvements here and there, and I REJOICE in them. Her typical preschool teacher was present at the meeting today and came right out and told me that she doesn't have the TIME to put in the repetition necessary for Olivia to pick up a concept. That made me very angry and brought me to tears. I excused myself from the room until I could gain composure and came back to ask her, "Is Olivia not welcome at your school?". She told me that she loves having Olivia as part of the class, but she thinks that being in special school as well as typical will really help her.

This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school.

Has this approach worked for anyone here?

At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into Kindergarten? (I was planning on age 7 if that's possible!)

Has anyone here ever gone against a 'recommendation' of an IEP meeting?

Also, were or are your children still very much BABIES at the age of 4? Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and 2 years of age right now. Will I see her catch up soon?

Thank you,

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

[Guest guest]

Is there a local Down syndrome organization? FIND A parent of an older child in your school district or a neighboring one, who is doing inclusion....call your Developmental Disabilities caseworker--in CA. they can act as an 'informed' party in the best interest of the child, or at least refer you to an advocate.

I googled, here's some website for youL

Disability Rights Network of Pennsylvania

http://drnpa.org/

PA Protection and Advocacy

http://www.icdri.org/legal/Pennsylvania%20kPAD.htm

There are probably also private advocates, but these agencies usually can help you free of charge---in CA Protection and Advocacy has a 'bible' which is the Special Education law in layman's terms---if they have it in PA, BUY IT! Get sticky notes and place them in every spot in the book that applies...

Don't give up on your daughter---I'm witnessing many parents giving up in 's high school, and just waiting to 'get out' of the system--tomorrow the 'Special Day Class' is going on 'Community Based Education'---they're going to see the movie High School Musical! Their 'instruction' is buying a movie ticket and snacks at the snackbar!

At the same time will be taking a spelling test, running the mile (he's under 15 minutes-whoo hoo!) going to the Pep rally, eating lunch with 3,300 students, learning about Egypt, and AFTER school he'll see the High School Musical movie, where he'll buy his own ticket, go in with a few friends...buy popcorn and soda... with his own money...then go to dinner, pay for his own dinner then go to the football game tomorrow night.

---who's going to learn more?

, Mom to 15, DS, Southern CaliforniaTo succeed in life,you need three things:a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.~ Reba McIntyre

Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or Parents with a Prenatal Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html

[DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi all,

We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 - turning 4 next month). Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days per week. This is her second year of the three-year old program. The end recommendation of the IEP was to have her attend special education preschool as well as typical. 50/50 Split. This is because Olivia has not met all of her goals for the past year.

I had hoped to just keep her in typical school for as long as I could. I didn't think I'd have to face this decision until 4th or 5th grade. This hit me like a ton of bricks. However, I don't have it in me to ignore a recommendation that could potentially BETTER my child.

Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is not showing much progress in any area. I see little improvements here and there, and I REJOICE in them. Her typical preschool teacher was present at the meeting today and came right out and told me that she doesn't have the TIME to put in the repetition necessary for Olivia to pick up a concept. That made me very angry and brought me to tears. I excused myself from the room until I could gain composure and came back to ask her, "Is Olivia not welcome at your school?". She told me that she loves having Olivia as part of the class, but she thinks that being in special school as well as typical will really help her.

This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school.

Has this approach worked for anyone here?

At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into Kindergarten? (I was planning on age 7 if that's possible!)

Has anyone here ever gone against a 'recommendation' of an IEP meeting?

Also, were or are your children still very much BABIES at the age of 4? Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and 2 years of age right now. Will I see her catch up soon?

Thank you,

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

[Guest guest]

I would also check out the kidstogether listserv. It is only about inclusion and MANY of the members including the person who own/runs the list is from PA--you may find lots of more local support there.

Good luck!

Jill

Mom to Mac & Kit

[DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi all,

We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 - turning 4 next month). Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days per week. This is her second year of the three-year old program. The end recommendation of the IEP was to have her attend special education preschool as well as typical. 50/50 Split. This is because Olivia has not met all of her goals for the past year.

I had hoped to just keep her in typical school for as long as I could. I didn't think I'd have to face this decision until 4th or 5th grade. This hit me like a ton of bricks. However, I don't have it in me to ignore a recommendation that could potentially BETTER my child.

Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is not showing much progress in any area. I see little improvements here and there, and I REJOICE in them. Her typical preschool teacher was present at the meeting today and came right out and told me that she doesn't have the TIME to put in the repetition necessary for Olivia to pick up a concept. That made me very angry and brought me to tears. I excused myself from the room until I could gain composure and came back to ask her, "Is Olivia not welcome at your school?". She told me that she loves having Olivia as part of the class, but she thinks that being in special school as well as typical will really help her.

This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school.

Has this approach worked for anyone here?

At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into Kindergarten? (I was planning on age 7 if that's possible!)

Has anyone here ever gone against a 'recommendation' of an IEP meeting?

Also, were or are your children still very much BABIES at the age of 4? Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and 2 years of age right now. Will I see her catch up soon?

Thank you,

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

[Guest guest]

,

That is AWESOME! I wish we lived closer - I really think I need you as a friend!!! Thank you for your e-mail help!

How was at Olivia's age? Was he able to talk at the age of late 3 - early 4? It just scares me that and Olivia are worlds apart. Maybe he's really high functioning and Olivia isn't. I'm not giving up on her at all. I want her to be the very BEST she can be - PLUS! What kinds of things did you do with at an early age to get him where he is now?

Thank you so much for the advocacy information. To be completely honest, we do not live in an area where anyone practices inclusion. We are the pioneer family here!!! This is a very depressed, old coal-mining town. I have never fit in and don't plan on it!

We're planning a trip to San Diego in March. I may never want to come back here! ;-)

Thank you VERY much!

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

-- Re: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Is there a local Down syndrome organization? FIND A parent of an older child in your school district or a neighboring one, who is doing inclusion....call your Developmental Disabilities caseworker--in CA. they can act as an 'informed' party in the best interest of the child, or at least refer you to an advocate.

I googled, here's some website for youL

Disability Rights Network of Pennsylvania

http://drnpa.org/

PA Protection and Advocacy

http://www.icdri.org/legal/Pennsylvania%20kPAD.htm

There are probably also private advocates, but these agencies usually can help you free of charge---in CA Protection and Advocacy has a 'bible' which is the Special Education law in layman's terms---if they have it in PA, BUY IT! Get sticky notes and place them in every spot in the book that applies...

Don't give up on your daughter---I'm witnessing many parents giving up in 's high school, and just waiting to 'get out' of the system--tomorrow the 'Special Day Class' is going on 'Community Based Education'---they're going to see the movie High School Musical! Their 'instruction' is buying a movie ticket and snacks at the snackbar!

At the same time will be taking a spelling test, running the mile (he's under 15 minutes-whoo hoo!) going to the Pep rally, eating lunch with 3,300 students, learning about Egypt, and AFTER school he'll see the High School Musical movie, where he'll buy his own ticket, go in with a few friends...buy popcorn and soda... with his own money...then go to dinner, pay for his own dinner then go to the football game tomorrow night.

---who's going to learn more?

, Mom to 15, DS, Southern CaliforniaTo succeed in life,you need three things:a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.~ Reba McIntyre

Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or Parents with a Prenatal Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html

[DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi all,

We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 - turning 4 next month). Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days per week. This is her second year of the three-year old program. The end recommendation of the IEP was to have her attend special education preschool as well as typical. 50/50 Split. This is because Olivia has not met all of her goals for the past year.

I had hoped to just keep her in typical school for as long as I could. I didn't think I'd have to face this decision until 4th or 5th grade. This hit me like a ton of bricks. However, I don't have it in me to ignore a recommendation that could potentially BETTER my child.

Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is not showing much progress in any area. I see little improvements here and there, and I REJOICE in them. Her typical preschool teacher was present at the meeting today and came right out and told me that she doesn't have the TIME to put in the repetition necessary for Olivia to pick up a concept. That made me very angry and brought me to tears. I excused myself from the room until I could gain composure and came back to ask her, "Is Olivia not welcome at your school?". She told me that she loves having Olivia as part of the class, but she thinks that being in special school as well as typical will really help her.

This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school.

Has this approach worked for anyone here?

At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into Kindergarten? (I was planning on age 7 if that's possible!)

Has anyone here ever gone against a 'recommendation' of an IEP meeting?

Also, were or are your children still very much BABIES at the age of 4? Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and 2 years of age right now. Will I see her catch up soon?

Thank you,

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

[Guest guest]

Carolyn, I hope you can see the calming the

clouds and water on this stationary. :-) I'm so sorry you are being put

through this turmoil. I know just how you feel with regards to that 'losing control' feeling. Hang

in there.... you haven't lost control at all, they just want you to

'think' that. It's a tactic used to knock parents off their feet and

make them want school to 'fix' things for them. Don't fall for it. ;-) You need to find an advocate in your area for starters, call other parents of kids with special needs

for recommendations. Or find a real live lawyer who specializes in sped

law and champions inclusion. A google search will typically turn some

up. As far as you being banned from observation, that is BS,

and I would simply state that with out observation, I could in no way

allow my daughter to attend. It would be irresponsible as a parent to

send a child somewhere that you are not allowed to preview or volunteer

at. That is is totally unacceptable and when they say things like to

you, don't take the defensive posture, go offensive all the way! Not

only put on your thigh highs, but get your whip as well and start

asking them what kind of parent would allow their non-verbal child to

go to a place that is a complete unknown to you as a parent and be put

at the mercy of people you know nothing about! Most of these people are

parents, so ask them if they would do that to 'their' child. This is

the USA, we PAY for that school!! Of COURSE you have the right and

OBLIGATION to observe if it's an option for your daughter!! Having

said that...... I would in no way let them send there. :-)

So I couldn't recommend sending your dd there either. If they are that

'closed', I would not consider it. I would still insist on observing at

this point though, and go see for myself. ;-)I am not sure

where you heard that Olivia has to pass some test to stay in the

typical kindergarten?? Unless you are referring to private school, that

is so not true about PS. They HAVE to take her and include her, it's

the LAW.As for her current placement and issues- does she have an aide and her therapies in the Catholic school?

I don't know about laws requiring aides for private schools, I think

they would have to if there is no typical preschool available.... but

she needs some modifications/accommodations and someone in the class

room who can apply some great techniques and tips to help her along. I

was the one who fed the school lots of information on how to help

and also sent in materials for her to use. You may want to

dig into things that would help her and offer to make/supply modified

materials and behavor tips. was not talking at 3, can

barely understand her most of the time at 8! She was also very baby

like in pre-school, though she has always liked academics, her behavior

was very much in need of work and that still remains the biggest

challenge and I suspect always will. And that is *the* number one

reason I want in her the typcial classroom as much as possible. That is

what you should be focusing on with a 3-4 year old too.

entered kindy at 6, and did great, Repeating would have been boring for

her, but she did hit a brick wall in 1st grade, both academically and

behavor wise ( the kids were obviously more mature than she was) and so

we repeated 1st grade and that seems to have equaled the playing field

for her. Don't look too far down that road, because things change so

much it's hard to predict.I am off to an IEP in our district this very morning to support another parent here who is bucking our school and wanting inclusion too. It's not practiced here esp as you go up in the grades ( he's in 5th) . They are pulling all the typical crap and she has a sped lawyer... so today should prove interesting and hopefully by me being there, it will help in the future as well.I'll let you know anything new I learn today!Hope you don't feel too bad today <g> It's a NEW day! Think POSITIVE, think STRONG!! Don't let them get you down!! ( this is where i start listening to "bring on the rain' which you can find on our blog. :-) ) It never fails to give me that mental edge... try it! Less calories than Mike's :-)

[Guest guest]

I have to say Carol, you are really cracking me up this morning! I love the reference to thing hi's and a whip as well as the Mike's. Bring on the weekend!RubyCarolyn, I hope you can see the calming the clouds and water on this stationary. :-) I'm so sorry you are being put through this turmoil. I know just how you feel with regards to that 'losing control' feeling. Hang in there.... you haven't lost control at all, they just want you to 'think' that. It's a tactic used to knock parents off their feet and make them want school to 'fix' things for them. Don't fall for it. ;-) You need to find an advocate in your area for starters, call other parents of kids with special needs for recommendations. Or find a real live lawyer who specializes in sped law and champions inclusion. A google search will typically turn some up. As far as you being banned from observation, that is BS, and I would simply state that with out observation, I could in no way allow my daughter to attend. It would be irresponsible as a parent to send a child somewhere that you are not allowed to preview or volunteer at. That is is totally unacceptable and when they say things like to you, don't take the defensive posture, go offensive all the way! Not only put on your thigh highs, but get your whip as well and start asking them what kind of parent would allow their non-verbal child to go to a place that is a complete unknown to you as a parent and be put at the mercy of people you know nothing about! Most of these people are parents, so ask them if they would do that to 'their' child. This is the USA, we PAY for that school!! Of COURSE you have the right and OBLIGATION to observe if it's an option for your daughter!! Having said that...... I would in no way let them send there. :-) So I couldn't recommend sending your dd there either. If they are that 'closed', I would not consider it. I would still insist on observing at this point though, and go see for myself. ;-)I am not sure where you heard that Olivia has to pass some test to stay in the typical kindergarten?? Unless you are referring to private school, that is so not true about PS. They HAVE to take her and include her, it's the LAW.As for her current placement and issues- does she have an aide and her therapies in the Catholic school? I don't know about laws requiring aides for private schools, I think they would have to if there is no typical preschool available.... but she needs some modifications/accommodations and someone in the class room who can apply some great techniques and tips to help her along. I was the one who fed the school lots of information on how to help and also sent in materials for her to use. You may want to dig into things that would help her and offer to make/supply modified materials and behavor tips. was not talking at 3, can barely understand her most of the time at 8! She was also very baby like in pre-school, though she has always liked academics, her behavior was very much in need of work and that still remains the biggest challenge and I suspect always will. And that is *the* number one reason I want in her the typcial classroom as much as possible. That is what you should be focusing on with a 3-4 year old too. entered kindy at 6, and did great, Repeating would have been boring for her, but she did hit a brick wall in 1st grade, both academically and behavor wise ( the kids were obviously more mature than she was) and so we repeated 1st grade and that seems to have equaled the playing field for her. Don't look too far down that road, because things change so much it's hard to predict.I am off to an IEP in our district this very morning to support another parent here who is bucking our school and wanting inclusion too. It's not practiced here esp as you go up in the grades ( he's in 5th) . They are pulling all the typical crap and she has a sped lawyer... so today should prove interesting and hopefully by me being there, it will help in the future as well.I'll let you know anything new I learn today!Hope you don't feel too bad today <g> It's a NEW day! Think POSITIVE, think STRONG!! Don't let them get you down!! ( this is where i start listening to "bring on the rain' which you can find on our blog. :-) ) It never fails to give me that mental edge... try it! Less calories than Mike's :-)=

[Guest guest]

Hello,

I don't post very often but this is very simliar to the choices I had to make when my son was 3. I felt so lost. I really did not know where to turn to or who to believe. I did the 50/50 school situation for a while. I had the best therapists and teachers in the special ed preschool and I still hated it. I knew it was not the place for my son. I used the time to research what to do with him and I joined the Special education advisory committee at school. I learned knowledge is power. Eventually my son was getting Ot/PT and speech only at public school and went to the typical preschool 3 days a week. He went to the sped classroom for 2 hours a week to get his services and I dropped him in the classroom and came early to pick him up. I sat right in the classroom while he finished his therapy.

The fact that they did not have an inclusion program for preschool helped me to get my services without being in the classroom more that 2 hours. Now they have inclusion preschools.

They told me I couldn't observe the classroom, but I won that battle very easily because they wanted my son in the class and I refused to let him until we observed. As a matter of fact, the class he was supposed to be in, I observed I hated and asked for a different class. They gave it to me. Then they put Nick's picture in the yearbook as a special ed preschool student and never asked me, so much for protecting students privacy in the classroom.

As far as Typical preschool, I wouldn't trade that experience for anything. AT 4, the other children were great for my son, they incouraged him to come to circle time when he didn't want to go. Nick is in typical first grade now and most of the kids from preschool are still friends with him. One parent asked to be in Nick's Kindergarten class because her daughter wanted to continue to be a friend with Nick. Nick is very capable but at times he can be very immature, but it will come.Sometimes when I think my son is immature, I find that other typical children in his class are doing the same thing. That's why inclusion is so great.

I never expected the typical preschool teacher to "teach" my son. I wanted him to learn to hang his backpack, sit in circle time, walk in a line,interact with the other children and just be a part of the classroom. And he did.

As far as learning, there are so many programs out there to help you. We did love and learning (Nick's picture is on the site www.loveandlearning.com he is the first one) We started at 3 & 1/2. Other great programs such as www.dsfoc.org are spreading all over the country and many are free. There is Gigi' playhouse that Carol does, I wish I had that here.

Here is a link to the new downsed USA

http://blogs.downsed.org/downsedusa/2008/10/downsed-usa-ann.html?dm_i=409973222

This is a very exciting time for our children because there are so many programs out there.

Not only that, I believe it is impossible to predict you child's potential based on the milestones of the first 5 years.

I got by with the great advice of people on this listserve as well. You guys are wonderful. It was great meeting you in Boston as well.

Good Luck!

Kathy

mother to Nick 6 years old with Ds and 3 teenage boys

Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange , ourmostbeautifulchildren Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 9:10 PM

Hi all,

We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 - turning 4 next month). Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days per week. This is her second year of the three-year old program. The end recommendation of the IEP was to have her attend special education preschool as well as typical. 50/50 Split. This is because Olivia has not met all of her goals for the past year.

I had hoped to just keep her in typical school for as long as I could. I didn't think I'd have to face this decision until 4th or 5th grade. This hit me like a ton of bricks. However, I don't have it in me to ignore a recommendation that could potentially BETTER my child.

Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is not showing much progress in any area. I see little improvements here and there, and I REJOICE in them. Her typical preschool teacher was present at the meeting today and came right out and told me that she doesn't have the TIME to put in the repetition necessary for Olivia to pick up a concept. That made me very angry and brought me to tears. I excused myself from the room until I could gain composure and came back to ask her, "Is Olivia not welcome at your school?". She told me that she loves having Olivia as part of the class, but she thinks that being in special school as well as typical will really help her.

This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school.

Has this approach worked for anyone here?

At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into Kindergarten? (I was planning on age 7 if that's possible!)

Has anyone here ever gone against a 'recommendation' of an IEP meeting?

Also, were or are your children still very much BABIES at the age of 4? Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and 2 years of age right now. Will I see her catch up soon?

Thank you,

Carolyn

http://stores. ebay.com/ ck-antiques_ W0QQsspagenameZL 2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

[Guest guest]

Carolyn,

I agree with everything has told you. Right down to the smarty pants pre teen girl who has to see HSM 3 today!

I have observed many ESE classrooms, and turned down most of them. NEVER send your child to a class you have not been allowed to observe for as long as you want to observe it. They will want 24 hours notice, but that is all they can demand.

If Olivia is going to leave the private school for public kindergarten, go to your home school (where she would go if not disabled) and register her. You are going to have to go on the offensive in this situation, they are trying to push you around and trample Olivia's right to FAPE (free appropriate public education).

Do not think your child is functioning at a lower level than these other kids with Ds who have been included and mainstreamed. If she has been in a private preschool program at 3 years old, she is doing just fine!

I also agree with about telling the teacher to relax, you know Olivia is not going to keep up, you just want her to learn as much as possible for her. You also will need to work with her at home to reinforce what she is hearing in school. Most importantly, you want her to learn to act like a typical child.

Faith is so good at acting like a typical child she has fooled teachers into thinking she is working when she is doodling. A behavior analyst who often works with children with autism was very impressed with the way Faith looks like a student. She said that is much harder to teach a child than reading!

Hang in there!

ette

--------- [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi all,

We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 - turning 4 next month). Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days per week. This is her second year of the three-year old program. The end recommendation of the IEP was to have her attend special education preschool as well as typical. 50/50 Split. This is because Olivia has not met all of her goals for the past year.

I had hoped to just keep her in typical school for as long as I could. I didn't think I'd have to face this decision until 4th or 5th grade. This hit me like a ton of bricks. However, I don't have it in me to ignore a recommendation that could potentially BETTER my child.

Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is not showing much progress in any area. I see little improvements here and there, and I REJOICE in them. Her typical preschool teacher was present at the meeting today and came right out and told me that she doesn't have the TIME to put in the repetition necessary for Olivia to pick up a concept. That made me very angry and brought me to tears. I excused myself from the room until I could gain composure and came back to ask her, "Is Olivia not welcome at your school?". She told me that she loves having Olivia as part of the class, but she thinks that being in special school as well as typical will really help her.

This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school.

Has this approach worked for anyone here?

At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into Kindergarten? (I was planning on age 7 if that's possible!)

Has anyone here ever gone against a 'recommendation' of an IEP meeting?

Also, were or are your children still very much BABIES at the age of 4? Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and 2 years of age right now. Will I see her catch up soon?

Thank you,

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

[Guest guest]

Carolyn,

Sorry I'm reading backwards. Does this mean the Catholic school for mainstream and the public for "special"? You HAVE to observe that ESE class. It is not special!

I have been volunteering in the primary (K-2) EMH class at Faith's school. I really like the teacher, Faith had her as a resource teacher. The difference is EMH (Educable Mentally Handicapped) and resource or VE (Varying Exceptionalities). The kids in VE (except Faith) all have SLD and are of "normal" intelligence. Anyway, the EMH class is a terrible place to learn. The teacher spend 60% of her time correcting behaviors. Lots of time is spent on toileting. There are 4 boys with Ds in the class and they are a clique. They should not all be together. The other 5 kids have other disabilities, none are very verbal, all have behavior problems. What would Olivia learn if she were placed in that class? That would be the placement first offered if you came to our school. If you looked around, you would see Faith as the only child with a significant disability who is mainstreamed. There is a 5th grade boy with Ds in the 3-5 grade EMH class.

As for working with Olivia, don't call it work! It needs to be play, as in playing school. Let her play the teacher sometimes too. Read to her lots, Faith didn't use to sit still for it, but I kept reading. Reading is her strong point now. Teaching Reading to Children with DS is a great book.

For school issues www.wrightslaw.com and if you ever get the chance to hear Pete speak, it is worth it. Also Rich Villa and Doug Fisher are great advocates.

Olivia is taking ballet? In a regular class? She functions very well!

ette

--------- Re: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Oh, Carolyn, I really feel for you! I remember all those feelings of not knowing what to do and feeling like I didn't have any answers.First of all, you know your child BEST. Not the preschool teacher and not the other members of the IEP team. Second, you will have difficulty in a private preschool because they are not bound by law to teach your child.Third, there is no magic special education place that will catch your child up to all the typical children. Her best bet of keeping up is to learn with the typical kids. Please, do not allow her to be segregated at such an early age. How would she ever catch up?If she is still "baby like" at 4 (Faith was too) how about another year of the 3 year old class?Faith was in a chuch preschool from age 3 through age 5, started public kindergarten (full inclusion, no aide) at 6, then repeated kindergarten. Now she is in 4th grade, mainstreamed for all but math and reading. No other children with DS at her school have this placement. They are all segregated. That is the norm.You need to decide now whether you want the norm or you want your daughter to be included in the mainstream.Sorry, I have to go to bed...but I'll write more tomorrow. There is lots of support for you out here!ette-------------- Original message from "runmuch" <runmuchptd (DOT) net>: -------------- Hi all,We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 - turning 4 next month). Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days per week. This is her second year of the three-year old program. The end recommendation of the IEP was to have her attend special education preschool as well as typical. 50/50 Split. This is because Olivia has not met all of her goals for the past year.I had hoped to just keep her in typical school for as long as I could. I didn't think I'd have to face this decision until 4th or 5th grade. This hit me like a ton of bricks. However, I don't have it in me to ignore a recommendation that could potentially BETTER my child. Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is not showing much progress in any area. I see little improvements here and there, and I REJOICE in them. Her typical preschool teacher was present at the meeting today and came right out and told me that she doesn't have the TIME to put in the repetition necessary for Olivia to pick up a concept. That made me very angry and brought me to tears. I excused myself from the room until I could gain composure and came back to ask her, "Is Olivia not welcome at your school?". She told me that she loves having Olivia as part of the class, but she thinks that being in special school as well as typical will really help her.This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school.Has this approach worked for anyone here?At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into Kindergarten? (I was planning on age 7 if that's possible!)Has anyone here ever gone against a 'recommendation' of an IEP meeting?Also, were or are your children still very much BABIES at the age of 4? Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and 2 years of age right now. Will I see her catch up soon? Thank you,Carolyn http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA! 'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

[Guest guest]

carolyn

Where in pa do you live? I live in bucks cty pa.

Sheryl

This does make sense to me, as Olivia will

> need to pass her

> kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school.

>

> Where do you live? You need an advocate. Or spend a

> gazillion hours

> learning the law...our kids are afforded accomodations and

> they don't have

> to 'qualify' for 'typical' school in the

> US...are you in another country?

>

> Do both 'special' and typical preschool...but do

> not ever give up the

> typical school at all...and when she's 5, decide if you

> need to wait one

> more year and send her to kindergarten at age 6, but

> don't give up on her

> now! The gains when they come come in spurts and you will

> blink and she

> will be a smart-ass teen age girl telling you taht you are

> the worse mom in

> the world for not taking her to High School Musical 3

> TOMORROW because THAT

> is the day it opens! (oh, I digress, that's

> 'my' son!)

>

>

> , Mom to 15, DS, Southern California

> To succeed in life,

> you need three things:

> a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.

> ~ Reba McIntyre

>

>

> Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or

> Parents with a

> Prenatal Diagnosis

> http://www.leeworks.net/DDS/

> What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosis

> http://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html

> [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

>

>

> Hi all,

>

> We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 - turning 4

> next month).

> Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days per week.

> This is her

> second year of the three-year old program. The end

> recommendation of the

> IEP was to have her attend special education preschool as

> well as typical.

> 50/50 Split. This is because Olivia has not met all of her

> goals for the

> past year.

>

> I had hoped to just keep her in typical school for as long

> as I could. I

> didn't think I'd have to face this decision until

> 4th or 5th grade. This hit

> me like a ton of bricks. However, I don't have it in me

> to ignore a

> recommendation that could potentially BETTER my child.

>

> Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is not showing much

> progress in any

> area. I see little improvements here and there, and I

> REJOICE in them. Her

> typical preschool teacher was present at the meeting today

> and came right

> out and told me that she doesn't have the TIME to put

> in the repetition

> necessary for Olivia to pick up a concept. That made me

> very angry and

> brought me to tears. I excused myself from the room until I

> could gain

> composure and came back to ask her, " Is Olivia not

> welcome at your school? " .

> She told me that she loves having Olivia as part of the

> class, but she

> thinks that being in special school as well as typical will

> really help her.

>

> This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her

> kindergarten

> testing in order to STAY in typical school.

>

> Has this approach worked for anyone here?

>

> At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into Kindergarten? (I

> was planning on

> age 7 if that's possible!)

>

> Has anyone here ever gone against a

> 'recommendation' of an IEP meeting?

>

> Also, were or are your children still very much BABIES at

> the age of 4?

> Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and 2

> years of age right now.

> Will I see her catch up soon?

>

> Thank you,

> Carolyn

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

>

>

> We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at

> Black Diamond Antiques

> in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

>

>

> 'Don't worry about the world coming to an end

> today.

> It's already tomorrow in Australia '

> ( Schultz)

[Guest guest]

Hi Carolyn,

Sorry for chiming in so late. I'm just getting to emails. We're sort of neighbors...we live in Lehigh County, PA (Whitehall, to be exact). Our daughter, Tess, age 7 with ds, went to catholic school (in the town Diocese, same as you) from age 18 months until we enrolled her in public kindergarten last year. However, she didn't go to a typical preschool. She went 5 days each week (beginning at age 3) to Mercy Special Learning Center, where the toddler and preschool programs are integrated classrooms in which about 1/3 to 1/2 of the children have special needs, and the remainder of the students are typically-developing kids. It was a great experience. But given that the diocese STRONGLY believes in the model of segregated learning for children with special needs once they hit school age, I think you are on an uphill battle if you choose to remain in the Catholic school setting. And I'm pretty sure that an advocate is not the answer at this stage, since there is no legal obligation for the parochial school to provide Olivia with her education. If the school were open to learning how to include Olivia so that she is working towards her individual goals as part of the classroom with typically-developing peers, then perhaps a consultant would be helpful. I really didn't hear the door opening very wide for that.

However, there are many other options for preschool education, with supports, that might better meet Olivia's needs. I'm curious about her IEP goals, that preceded the recommendation for the special classroom. With appropriate IEP goals and proper supports, there is no reason for Olivia to require a segregated classroom placement. The question is, particularly at the preschool level, where do you find the typical classroom that is open to providing and/or welcoming in the appropriate supports. They are out there, but it takes some work. And with the requirement you described of needing to pass a test to qualify for kindergarten admission, it seems that the current school is not that school.

I would recommend that you call the Eastern Pennsylvania Down Syndrome Center, located in Trexlertown, PA. They have wonderful professionals there...the one coordinator, Patti Mertz, in particular, has a background in teaching and her son is now a teenager. She trailblazed inclusive learning models in the Kutztown School District, a very small, somewhat rural school district that didn't know anything about appropriate inclusive education when she began challenging them back in the '90s. She has been a wonderful resource and support for our family, and could probably give you some guidance as well.

Hope there's something of value in this long, rambling message.

Kathi

From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of runmuchSent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 9:10 PMTo: DownSyndromeInfoExchange ; ourmostbeautifulchildren Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi all,

We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 - turning 4 next month). Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days per week. This is her second year of the three-year old program. The end recommendation of the IEP was to have her attend special education preschool as well as typical. 50/50 Split. This is because Olivia has not met all of her goals for the past year.

I had hoped to just keep her in typical school for as long as I could. I didn't think I'd have to face this decision until 4th or 5th grade. This hit me like a ton of bricks. However, I don't have it in me to ignore a recommendation that could potentially BETTER my child.

Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is not showing much progress in any area. I see little improvements here and there, and I REJOICE in them. Her typical preschool teacher was present at the meeting today and came right out and told me that she doesn't have the TIME to put in the repetition necessary for Olivia to pick up a concept. That made me very angry and brought me to tears. I excused myself from the room until I could gain composure and came back to ask her, "Is Olivia not welcome at your school?". She told me that she loves having Olivia as part of the class, but she thinks that being in special school as well as typical will really help her.

This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school

Has this approach worked for anyone here?

At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into Kindergarten? (I was planning on age 7 if that's possible!)

Has anyone here ever gone against a 'recommendation' of an IEP meeting?

Also, were or are your children still very much BABIES at the age of 4? Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and 2 years of age right now. Will I see her catch up soon?

Thank you,

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathi,

Thank you! I have a friend who sends her daughter to Mercy and she's doing very well.

We live in the Panther Valley School District. We are considering a move in order to help Olivia with schools. We do not have many to choose from here, sadly.

I will certainly call EPDSC. Thank you!

It just kills me that the diocese believes in segregated learning. KILLS ME. I was raised in the Catholic faith. My dad is and has been a teacher in Our Lady of the Angels Academy (this is where Olivia is enrolled) for the past 40 years. I went there, my brother went there, my typical daughter goes there. I went on to n High School and Alvernia College. All I know is Catholic education!

When I was expecting Olivia at the so-called 'advanced maternal age' of 35, I declined all testing due to my religious beliefs, faith, and pro-life stance. I never, in a million years, thought I would face this type of uphill battle with a Catholic school. I thought they would welcome her with open arms. However, we're all human - I know how sick and exhausted it makes me feel when I sign in to the school office for lunch mom duty and hear Olivia yelling and carrying on across the hall in her preschool room. Sometimes I feel so helpless. Sometimes I just want to keep her home with me!!! I'm so hoping that the addition of special needs preschool will help Olivia with her speech and controlling her 'yelling' so that she can be a better behaved student in typical preschool.

I'm just very sad about it. I have to shake this feeling off though - Olivia needs an advocate who doesn't cry every two minutes!!

Thank you very much, Kathi.

I appreciate your help.

Sincerely,

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

-- RE: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi Carolyn,

Sorry for chiming in so late. I'm just getting to emails. We're sort of neighbors...we live in Lehigh County, PA (Whitehall, to be exact). Our daughter, Tess, age 7 with ds, went to catholic school (in the town Diocese, same as you) from age 18 months until we enrolled her in public kindergarten last year. However, she didn't go to a typical preschool. She went 5 days each week (beginning at age 3) to Mercy Special Learning Center, where the toddler and preschool programs are integrated classrooms in which about 1/3 to 1/2 of the children have special needs, and the remainder of the students are typically-developing kids. It was a great experience. But given that the diocese STRONGLY believes in the model of segregated learning for children with special needs once they hit school age, I think you are on an uphill battle if you choose to remain in the Catholic school setting. And I'm pretty sure that an advocate is not the answer at this stage, since there is no legal obligation for the parochial school to provide Olivia with her education. If the school were open to learning how to include Olivia so that she is working towards her individual goals as part of the classroom with typically-developing peers, then perhaps a consultant would be helpful. I really didn't hear the door opening very wide for that.

However, there are many other options for preschool education, with supports, that might better meet Olivia's needs. I'm curious about her IEP goals, that preceded the recommendation for the special classroom. With appropriate IEP goals and proper supports, there is no reason for Olivia to require a segregated classroom placement. The question is, particularly at the preschool level, where do you find the typical classroom that is open to providing and/or welcoming in the appropriate supports. They are out there, but it takes some work. And with the requirement you described of needing to pass a test to qualify for kindergarten admission, it seems that the current school is not that school.

I would recommend that you call the Eastern Pennsylvania Down Syndrome Center, located in Trexlertown, PA. They have wonderful professionals there...the one coordinator, Patti Mertz, in particular, has a background in teaching and her son is now a teenager. She trailblazed inclusive learning models in the Kutztown School District, a very small, somewhat rural school district that didn't know anything about appropriate inclusive education when she began challenging them back in the '90s. She has been a wonderful resource and support for our family, and could probably give you some guidance as well.

Hope there's something of value in this long, rambling message.

Kathi

From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of runmuchSent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 9:10 PMTo: DownSyndromeInfoExchange ; ourmostbeautifulchildren Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi all,

We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 - turning 4 next month). Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days per week. This is her second year of the three-year old program. The end recommendation of the IEP was to have her attend special education preschool as well as typical. 50/50 Split. This is because Olivia has not met all of her goals for the past year.

I had hoped to just keep her in typical school for as long as I could. I didn't think I'd have to face this decision until 4th or 5th grade. This hit me like a ton of bricks. However, I don't have it in me to ignore a recommendation that could potentially BETTER my child.

Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is not showing much progress in any area. I see little improvements here and there, and I REJOICE in them. Her typical preschool teacher was present at the meeting today and came right out and told me that she doesn't have the TIME to put in the repetition necessary for Olivia to pick up a concept. That made me very angry and brought me to tears. I excused myself from the room until I could gain composure and came back to ask her, "Is Olivia not welcome at your school?". She told me that she loves having Olivia as part of the class, but she thinks that being in special school as well as typical will really help her.

This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school

Has this approach worked for anyone here?

At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into Kindergarten? (I was planning on age 7 if that's possible!)

Has anyone here ever gone against a 'recommendation' of an IEP meeting?

Also, were or are your children still very much BABIES at the age of 4? Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and 2 years of age right now. Will I see her catch up soon?

Thank you,

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

[Guest guest]

Hi Carolyn,

Have you investigated the addition of therapeutic staff support services for Olivia? Since there are behavioral concerns, you would likely qualify for this additional help in the classroom. This would be a 1:1 person who would implement a behavior management plan (and could help with the repetition Olivia requires as well!) Does Olivia have Medicaid? If there is a medical/behavioral necessity for the additional help, Medicaid will pay for the service. Since I'm not familiar with Schuylkill County, I bet the county MH/MR office could lead you to providers.

Kathi

From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of runmuchSent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 9:04 AMTo: DownSyndromeInfoExchange Subject: RE: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi Kathi,

Thank you! I have a friend who sends her daughter to Mercy and she's doing very well.

We live in the Panther Valley School District. We are considering a move in order to help Olivia with schools. We do not have many to choose from here, sadly.

I will certainly call EPDSC. Thank you!

It just kills me that the diocese believes in segregated learning. KILLS ME. I was raised in the Catholic faith. My dad is and has been a teacher in Our Lady of the Angels Academy (this is where Olivia is enrolled) for the past 40 years. I went there, my brother went there, my typical daughter goes there. I went on to n High School and Alvernia College. All I know is Catholic education!

When I was expecting Olivia at the so-called 'advanced maternal age' of 35, I declined all testing due to my religious beliefs, faith, and pro-life stance. I never, in a million years, thought I would face this type of uphill battle with a Catholic school. I thought they would welcome her with open arms. However, we're all human - I know how sick and exhausted it makes me feel when I sign in to the school office for lunch mom duty and hear Olivia yelling and carrying on across the hall in her preschool room. Sometimes I feel so helpless. Sometimes I just want to keep her home with me!!! I'm so hoping that the addition of special needs preschool will help Olivia with her speech and controlling her 'yelling' so that she can be a better behaved student in typical preschool.

I'm just very sad about it. I have to shake this feeling off though - Olivia needs an advocate who doesn't cry every two minutes!!

Thank you very much, Kathi.

I appreciate your help.

Sincerely,

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

-- RE: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi Carolyn,

Sorry for chiming in so late. I'm just getting to emails. We're sort of neighbors...we live in Lehigh County, PA (Whitehall, to be exact). Our daughter, Tess, age 7 with ds, went to catholic school (in the town Diocese, same as you) from age 18 months until we enrolled her in public kindergarten last year. However, she didn't go to a typical preschool. She went 5 days each week (beginning at age 3) to Mercy Special Learning Center, where the toddler and preschool programs are integrated classrooms in which about 1/3 to 1/2 of the children have special needs, and the remainder of the students are typically-developing kids. It was a great experience. But given that the diocese STRONGLY believes in the model of segregated learning for children with special needs once they hit school age, I think you are on an uphill battle if you choose to remain in the Catholic school setting. And I'm pretty sure that an advocate is not the answer at this stage, since there is no legal obligation for the parochial school to provide Olivia with her education. If the school were open to learning how to include Olivia so that she is working towards her individual goals as part of the classroom with typically-developing peers, then perhaps a consultant would be helpful. I really didn't hear the door opening very wide for that.

However, there are many other options for preschool education, with supports, that might better meet Olivia's needs. I'm curious about her IEP goals, that preceded the recommendation for the special classroom. With appropriate IEP goals and proper supports, there is no reason for Olivia to require a segregated classroom placement. The question is, particularly at the preschool level, where do you find the typical classroom that is open to providing and/or welcoming in the appropriate supports. They are out there, but it takes some work. And with the requirement you described of needing to pass a test to qualify for kindergarten admission, it seems that the current school is not that school.

I would recommend that you call the Eastern Pennsylvania Down Syndrome Center, located in Trexlertown, PA. They have wonderful professionals there...the one coordinator, Patti Mertz, in particular, has a background in teaching and her son is now a teenager. She trailblazed inclusive learning models in the Kutztown School District, a very small, somewhat rural school district that didn't know anything about appropriate inclusive education when she began challenging them back in the '90s. She has been a wonderful resource and support for our family, and could probably give you some guidance as well.

Hope there's something of value in this long, rambling message.

Kathi

From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of runmuchSent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 9:10 PMTo: DownSyndromeInfoExchange ; ourmostbeautifulchildren Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi all,

We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 - turning 4 next month). Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days per week. This is her second year of the three-year old program. The end recommendation of the IEP was to have her attend special education preschool as well as typical. 50/50 Split. This is because Olivia has not met all of her goals for the past year.

I had hoped to just keep her in typical school for as long as I could. I didn't think I'd have to face this decision until 4th or 5th grade. This hit me like a ton of bricks. However, I don't have it in me to ignore a recommendation that could potentially BETTER my child.

Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is not showing much progress in any area. I see little improvements here and there, and I REJOICE in them. Her typical preschool teacher was present at the meeting today and came right out and told me that she doesn't have the TIME to put in the repetition necessary for Olivia to pick up a concept. That made me very angry and brought me to tears. I excused myself from the room until I could gain composure and came back to ask her, "Is Olivia not welcome at your school?". She told me that she loves having Olivia as part of the class, but she thinks that being in special school as well as typical will really help her.

This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school

Has this approach worked for anyone here?

At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into Kindergarten? (I was planning on age 7 if that's possible!)

Has anyone here ever gone against a 'recommendation' of an IEP meeting?

Also, were or are your children still very much BABIES at the age of 4? Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and 2 years of age right now. Will I see her catch up soon?

Thank you,

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

[Guest guest]

Oh yea, I see that look... has that look...the 'Oh No? Watch me' look!

Yes, stubborn is on the 21st chromosome, but a nicer way to say stubborn is DETERMINATION, PERSEVERANCE and NEVER GIVE UP!

And THOSE are the qualities that make us all strong and successful no matter what.

, Mom to 15, DS, Southern CaliforniaTo succeed in life,you need three things:a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.~ Reba McIntyre

Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or Parents with a Prenatal Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html

RE: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi Carolyn,

Sorry for chiming in so late. I'm just getting to emails. We're sort of neighbors...we live in Lehigh County, PA (Whitehall, to be exact). Our daughter, Tess, age 7 with ds, went to catholic school (in the town Diocese, same as you) from age 18 months until we enrolled her in public kindergarten last year. However, she didn't go to a typical preschool. She went 5 days each week (beginning at age 3) to Mercy Special Learning Center, where the toddler and preschool programs are integrated classrooms in which about 1/3 to 1/2 of the children have special needs, and the remainder of the students are typically-developing kids. It was a great experience. But given that the diocese STRONGLY believes in the model of segregated learning for children with special needs once they hit school age, I think you are on an uphill battle if you choose to remain in the Catholic school setting. And I'm pretty sure that an advocate is not the answer at this stage, since there is no legal obligation for the parochial school to provide Olivia with her education. If the school were open to learning how to include Olivia so that she is working towards her individual goals as part of the classroom with typically-developing peers, then perhaps a consultant would be helpful. I really didn't hear the door opening very wide for that.

However, there are many other options for preschool education, with supports, that might better meet Olivia's needs. I'm curious about her IEP goals, that preceded the recommendation for the special classroom. With appropriate IEP goals and proper supports, there is no reason for Olivia to require a segregated classroom placement. The question is, particularly at the preschool level, where do you find the typical classroom that is open to providing and/or welcoming in the appropriate supports. They are out there, but it takes some work. And with the requirement you described of needing to pass a test to qualify for kindergarten admission, it seems that the current school is not that school.

I would recommend that you call the Eastern Pennsylvania Down Syndrome Center, located in Trexlertown, PA. They have wonderful professionals there...the one coordinator, Patti Mertz, in particular, has a background in teaching and her son is now a teenager. She trailblazed inclusive learning models in the Kutztown School District, a very small, somewhat rural school district that didn't know anything about appropriate inclusive education when she began challenging them back in the '90s. She has been a wonderful resource and support for our family, and could probably give you some guidance as well.

Hope there's something of value in this long, rambling message.

Kathi

From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of runmuchSent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 9:10 PMTo: DownSyndromeInfoExchange ; ourmostbeautifulchildren Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi all,

We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 - turning 4 next month). Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days per week. This is her second year of the three-year old program. The end recommendation of the IEP was to have her attend special education preschool as well as typical. 50/50 Split. This is because Olivia has not met all of her goals for the past year.

I had hoped to just keep her in typical school for as long as I could. I didn't think I'd have to face this decision until 4th or 5th grade. This hit me like a ton of bricks. However, I don't have it in me to ignore a recommendation that could potentially BETTER my child.

Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is not showing much progress in any area. I see little improvements here and there, and I REJOICE in them. Her typical preschool teacher was present at the meeting today and came right out and told me that she doesn't have the TIME to put in the repetition necessary for Olivia to pick up a concept. That made me very angry and brought me to tears. I excused myself from the room until I could gain composure and came back to ask her, "Is Olivia not welcome at your school?". She told me that she loves having Olivia as part of the class, but she thinks that being in special school as well as typical will really help her.

This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school

Has this approach worked for anyone here?

At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into Kindergarten? (I was planning on age 7 if that's possible!)

Has anyone here ever gone against a 'recommendation' of an IEP meeting?

Also, were or are your children still very much BABIES at the age of 4? Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and 2 years of age right now. Will I see her catch up soon?

Thank you,

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

[Guest guest]

I remember a few years ago about an Inclusion Plan being written (perhaps by the Schriver family) for Catholic schools...I just googled and here's what I found:

Exceptional Catholic MN-Promoting inclusion in the classroom

http://www.exceptionalcatholicmn.com/

did you know about the National CAtholic Educational Association? Here's their Special Ed services page:

http://www.ncea.org/public/IDEASpecialEducation.asp

Catholic High School--Can inclusion work...

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-31150539_ITM

This one is about a degree in CAtholic school inclusive education

http://www.lmu.edu/Page20895.aspx

A lot of resources for educators:

http://www.childdevelopmentmedia.com/elementary-school-inclusion.html

I have a friend who is an advocate and she taught a class about inclusion yesterday...the reality is just about ANYWHERE it takes a lot

of work to successfully include a child with DS...and sadly parents have to either hire an expert or become an expert in order to make it a success.

The happiest day of my life was when I ran into the school psychologist at 's elementary school last year (grocery store) She told me about a little girl who had been in the special ed preschool program at the school (which was also her home school) and as they were planning her transisiton from preschool to kindergarten her mother asked to see EVERY SDC class in the district.

Here's the conversation that was relayed to me:

Principal, "You are welcome to see the special ed classes, but she can attend here at her home school in a regular education class with supports."

Mother: "She can? But would she be able to learn anything in a regular class?"

School psyc: "Yes, she will most likely learn a lot more in a regular class than in a segregated class. She will make friends in the neighborhood too."

Mother: "But how could this work?"

Principal: "We've included several students with Down syndrome here very successfully. Our teachers know how to do it and line up to volunteer. We have classroom assistants to help her. We have a person who will modify the curriculum and materials to her ability level. She will have 21 teachers in every class--1 credentialed teacher, 1 aide and 19 other students."

------SEAN WAS THE PIONEER at this school 9 years ago---you can make a difference for other students in the future too!

(of course intermediate school was a whole other story, but High school is shaping up to be good)

, Mom to 15, DS, Southern CaliforniaTo succeed in life,you need three things:a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.~ Reba McIntyre

Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or Parents with a Prenatal Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html

RE: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi Carolyn,

Sorry for chiming in so late. I'm just getting to emails. We're sort of neighbors...we live in Lehigh County, PA (Whitehall, to be exact). Our daughter, Tess, age 7 with ds, went to catholic school (in the town Diocese, same as you) from age 18 months until we enrolled her in public kindergarten last year. However, she didn't go to a typical preschool. She went 5 days each week (beginning at age 3) to Mercy Special Learning Center, where the toddler and preschool programs are integrated classrooms in which about 1/3 to 1/2 of the children have special needs, and the remainder of the students are typically-developing kids. It was a great experience. But given that the diocese STRONGLY believes in the model of segregated learning for children with special needs once they hit school age, I think you are on an uphill battle if you choose to remain in the Catholic school setting. And I'm pretty sure that an advocate is not the answer at this stage, since there is no legal obligation for the parochial school to provide Olivia with her education. If the school were open to learning how to include Olivia so that she is working towards her individual goals as part of the classroom with typically-developing peers, then perhaps a consultant would be helpful. I really didn't hear the door opening very wide for that.

However, there are many other options for preschool education, with supports, that might better meet Olivia's needs. I'm curious about her IEP goals, that preceded the recommendation for the special classroom. With appropriate IEP goals and proper supports, there is no reason for Olivia to require a segregated classroom placement. The question is, particularly at the preschool level, where do you find the typical classroom that is open to providing and/or welcoming in the appropriate supports. They are out there, but it takes some work. And with the requirement you described of needing to pass a test to qualify for kindergarten admission, it seems that the current school is not that school.

I would recommend that you call the Eastern Pennsylvania Down Syndrome Center, located in Trexlertown, PA. They have wonderful professionals there...the one coordinator, Patti Mertz, in particular, has a background in teaching and her son is now a teenager. She trailblazed inclusive learning models in the Kutztown School District, a very small, somewhat rural school district that didn't know anything about appropriate inclusive education when she began challenging them back in the '90s. She has been a wonderful resource and support for our family, and could probably give you some guidance as well.

Hope there's something of value in this long, rambling message.

Kathi

From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of runmuchSent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 9:10 PMTo: DownSyndromeInfoExchange ; ourmostbeautifulchildren Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi all,

We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 - turning 4 next month). Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days per week. This is her second year of the three-year old program. The end recommendation of the IEP was to have her attend special education preschool as well as typical. 50/50 Split. This is because Olivia has not met all of her goals for the past year.

I had hoped to just keep her in typical school for as long as I could. I didn't think I'd have to face this decision until 4th or 5th grade. This hit me like a ton of bricks. However, I don't have it in me to ignore a recommendation that could potentially BETTER my child.

Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is not showing much progress in any area. I see little improvements here and there, and I REJOICE in them. Her typical preschool teacher was present at the meeting today and came right out and told me that she doesn't have the TIME to put in the repetition necessary for Olivia to pick up a concept. That made me very angry and brought me to tears. I excused myself from the room until I could gain composure and came back to ask her, "Is Olivia not welcome at your school?". She told me that she loves having Olivia as part of the class, but she thinks that being in special school as well as typical will really help her.

This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school

Has this approach worked for anyone here?

At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into Kindergarten? (I was planning on age 7 if that's possible!)

Has anyone here ever gone against a 'recommendation' of an IEP meeting?

Also, were or are your children still very much BABIES at the age of 4? Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and 2 years of age right now. Will I see her catch up soon?

Thank you,

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

[Guest guest]

I always say that Sydnie’s DETERMINED….stubborn

is such a stereotype J lol

From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of McElwee

Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008

1:52 PM

To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange

Subject: Re:

[DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Oh yea, I see that look... has that

look...the 'Oh No? Watch me' look!

Yes, stubborn is on the 21st chromosome,

but a nicer way to say stubborn is DETERMINATION, PERSEVERANCE and NEVER GIVE

UP!

And THOSE are the qualities that make us

all strong and successful no matter what.

, Mom to 15, DS, Southern

California

To succeed in life,

you need three things:

a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.

~ Reba McIntyre

Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or Parents with a

Prenatal Diagnosis

http://www.leeworks.net/DDS/

What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosis

http://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html

[DownSyndromeInfoExchange]

IEP Meeting :-(

Hi all,

We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 -

turning 4 next month). Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days

per week. This is her second year of the three-year old program.

The end recommendation of the IEP was to have her attend special education

preschool as well as typical. 50/50 Split.

This is because Olivia has not met all of her goals for the past year.

I had hoped to just keep her in typical school

for as long as I could. I didn't think I'd have to face this

decision until 4th or 5th grade. This hit me like a ton of bricks.

However, I don't have it in me to ignore a recommendation that could

potentially BETTER my child.

Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is

not showing much progress in any area. I see little improvements here and

there, and I REJOICE in them. Her typical preschool teacher was

present at the meeting today and came right out and told me that she

doesn't have the TIME to put in the repetition necessary for Olivia to

pick up a concept. That made me very angry and brought me to tears. I

excused myself from the room until I could gain composure and came back

to ask her, " Is Olivia not welcome at your school? " . She

told me that she loves having Olivia as part of the class, but she thinks

that being in special school as well as typical will really help her.

This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need

to pass her kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school

Has this approach worked for anyone here?

At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into

Kindergarten? (I was planning on age 7 if that's possible!)

Has anyone here ever gone against a

'recommendation' of an IEP meeting?

Also, were or are your children still very much

BABIES at the age of 4? Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and

2 years of age right now. Will I see her catch up soon?

Thank you,

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at

Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.

It's

already tomorrow in Australia

'

(

Schultz)

avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean.

Virus Database (VPS): 081025-1, 10/25/2008Tested on: 10/26/2008 6:45:30 PMavast! - copyright © 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.

[Guest guest]

, I hope we all find the guts to dive into inclusion like you did and that dialogues like the one you overheard are the norm, not the exception. Even though I have arrived in the US recently, I am not familiar with the system yet and NY, apparently, is a difficult state for inclusion, I feel I have a duty to push for it, not only for the benifit of my daughter, but for others after her, just like you did. And I thank you for that ! Pat, mum to , 4, in Rye/NY, currently being evaluated by various therapists prior to her IEP... McElwee escreveu: I remember a few years ago about an Inclusion Plan being written (perhaps by the Schriver family) for Catholic schools...I just googled and here's what I found: Exceptional Catholic MN-Promoting inclusion in the classroom http://www.exceptionalcatholicmn.com/ did you know about the National CAtholic Educational Association? Here's their Special Ed services page: http://www.ncea.org/public/IDEASpecialEducation.asp Catholic High School--Can inclusion work... http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-31150539_ITM This one is about a degree in CAtholic school inclusive education http://www.lmu.edu/Page20895.aspx A lot of resources for educators: http://www.childdevelopmentmedia.com/elementary-school-inclusion.html I have a friend who is an advocate and she taught a class about inclusion yesterday...the reality is just about ANYWHERE it takes a lot of work to successfully include a child with DS...and sadly parents have to either hire an expert or become an expert in order to make it a success. The happiest day of my life was when I ran into the school psychologist at 's elementary school last year (grocery store) She told me about a little girl who had been in the special ed preschool program at the school (which was also her home school) and as they were planning her transisiton

from preschool to kindergarten her mother asked to see EVERY SDC class in the district. Here's the conversation that was relayed to me: Principal, "You are welcome to see the special ed classes, but she can attend here at her home school in a regular education class with supports." Mother: "She can? But would she be able to learn anything in a regular class?" School psyc: "Yes, she will most likely learn a lot more in a regular class than in a segregated class. She will make friends in the neighborhood too." Mother: "But how could this work?" Principal: "We've included several students with Down syndrome here very successfully. Our teachers know how to do it and line up to volunteer. We have classroom

assistants to help her. We have a person who will modify the curriculum and materials to her ability level. She will have 21 teachers in every class--1 credentialed teacher, 1 aide and 19 other students." ------SEAN WAS THE PIONEER at this school 9 years ago---you can make a difference for other students in the future too! (of course intermediate school was a whole other story, but High school is shaping up to be good) , Mom to 15, DS, Southern CaliforniaTo succeed in life,you need three things:a wishbone, a backbone and a funny bone.~ Reba McIntyre Diagnosis Down Syndrome: A Site of Hope for New Parents or Parents with a Prenatal Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/What to Say to Parents of a Child with a Diagnosishttp://www.leeworks.net/DDS/speech.html RE: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-( Hi Carolyn, Sorry for chiming in so late. I'm just getting to emails. We're sort of neighbors...we

live in Lehigh County, PA (Whitehall, to be exact). Our daughter, Tess, age 7 with ds, went to catholic school (in the town Diocese, same as you) from age 18 months until we enrolled her in public kindergarten last year. However, she didn't go to a typical preschool. She went 5 days each week (beginning at age 3) to Mercy Special Learning Center, where the toddler and preschool programs are integrated classrooms in which about 1/3 to 1/2 of the children have special needs, and the remainder of the students are typically-developing kids. It was a great experience. But given that the diocese STRONGLY believes in the model of segregated learning for children with special needs once they hit school age, I think you are on an uphill battle if you choose to remain in the Catholic school setting. And I'm pretty sure that an advocate is not the answer at this stage, since there is no legal obligation for the parochial school to provide Olivia with her education. If the

school were open to learning how to include Olivia so that she is working towards her individual goals as part of the classroom with typically-developing peers, then perhaps a consultant would be helpful. I really didn't hear the door opening very wide for that. However, there are many other options for preschool education, with supports, that might better meet Olivia's needs. I'm curious about her IEP goals, that preceded the recommendation for the special classroom. With appropriate IEP goals and proper supports, there is no reason for Olivia to require a segregated classroom placement. The question is, particularly at the preschool level, where do you find the typical classroom that is open to providing and/or welcoming in the

appropriate supports. They are out there, but it takes some work. And with the requirement you described of needing to pass a test to qualify for kindergarten admission, it seems that the current school is not that school. I would recommend that you call the Eastern Pennsylvania Down Syndrome Center, located in Trexlertown, PA. They have wonderful professionals there...the one coordinator, Patti Mertz, in particular, has a background in teaching and her son is now a teenager. She trailblazed inclusive learning models in the Kutztown School District, a very small, somewhat rural school district that didn't know anything about appropriate inclusive education when she began challenging them back in the '90s. She has been a wonderful resource and

support for our family, and could probably give you some guidance as well. Hope there's something of value in this long, rambling message. Kathi From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of runmuchSent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 9:10 PMTo: DownSyndromeInfoExchange ; ourmostbeautifulchildren Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-( Hi all, We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 - turning 4 next month). Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days per week. This is her second year of the three-year old program. The end recommendation of the IEP was to have her attend special education preschool as well as typical. 50/50

Split. This is because Olivia has not met all of her goals for the past year. I had hoped to just keep her in typical school for as long as I could. I didn't think I'd have to face this decision until 4th or 5th grade. This hit me like a ton of bricks. However, I don't have it in me to ignore a recommendation that could potentially BETTER my child. Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is not showing much progress in any area. I see little improvements here and there, and I REJOICE in them. Her typical preschool teacher was present at the meeting today and came right out and told me that she doesn't have the TIME to put in the repetition necessary for Olivia to pick up a concept. That made me very angry and brought me to tears. I excused myself from the room until I could gain composure and came back to ask her, "Is Olivia not welcome at your school?". She told me that she loves

having Olivia as part of the class, but she thinks that being in special school as well as typical will really help her. This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school Has this approach worked for anyone here? At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into Kindergarten? (I was planning on age 7 if that's possible!) Has anyone here ever gone against a 'recommendation' of an IEP meeting? Also, were or are your children still very much BABIES at the age of 4? Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and 2 years of age right now. Will I see her catch up soon? Thank you, Carolyn http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA! 'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

Novos endereços, o Yahoo! que você conhece. Crie um email novo com a sua cara @ymail.com ou @rocketmail.com.

[Guest guest]

Hi Pat

Everywhere is difficult for inclusiion! But, we do have the law on our side in the US. Children with disabilities are to be educated in the LRE (Least Restrictive Environment), that is usually the general education classroom. By law, the school must first consider the general education classroom and the child may only be removed from that placement if the nature of the disablility is so severe as to cause the child not to be educated. A great place to learn your rights is www.wrightslaw.com and Pete 's seminars are definately worth it!

ette in S. FL

mom to Faith (11)DS

--------- RE: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi Carolyn,

Sorry for chiming in so late. I'm just getting to emails. We're sort of neighbors...we live in Lehigh County, PA (Whitehall, to be exact). Our daughter, Tess, age 7 with ds, went to catholic school (in the town Diocese, same as you) from age 18 months until we enrolled her in public kindergarten last year. However, she didn't go to a typical preschool. She went 5 days each week (beginning at age 3) to Mercy Special Learning Center, where the toddler and preschool programs are integrated classrooms in which about 1/3 to 1/2 of the children have special needs, and the remainder of the students are typically-developing kids. It was a great experience. But given that the diocese STRONGLY believes in the model of segregated learning for children with special needs once they hit school age, I think you are on an uphill battle if you choose to remain in the Catholic school setting. And I'm pretty sure that an advocate is not the answer at this stage, since there is no legal obligation for the parochial school to provide Olivia with her education. If the school were open to learning how to include Olivia so that she is working towards her individual goals as part of the classroom with typically-developing peers, then perhaps a consultant would be helpful. I really didn't hear the door opening very wide for that.

However, there are many other options for preschool education, with supports, that might better meet Olivia's needs. I'm curious about her IEP goals, that preceded the recommendation for the special classroom. With appropriate IEP goals and proper supports, there is no reason for Olivia to require a segregated classroom placement. The question is, particularly at the preschool level, where do you find the typical classroom that is open to providing and/or welcoming in the appropriate supports. They are out there, but it takes some work. And with the requirement you described of needing to pass a test to qualify for kindergarten admission, it seems that the current school is not that school.

I would recommend that you call the Eastern Pennsylvania Down Syndrome Center, located in Trexlertown, PA. They have wonderful professionals there...the one coordinator, Patti Mertz, in particular, has a background in teaching and her son is now a teenager. She trailblazed inclusive learning models in the Kutztown School District, a very small, somewhat rural school district that didn't know anything about appropriate inclusive education when she began challenging them back in the '90s. She has been a wonderful resource and support for our family, and could probably give you some guidance as well.

Hope there's something of value in this long, rambling message.

Kathi

From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of runmuchSent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 9:10 PMTo: DownSyndromeInfoExchange ; ourmostbeautifulchildren Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] IEP Meeting :-(

Hi all,

We had our IEP meeting today for Olivia (age 3 - turning 4 next month). Olivia is in typical Catholic preschool two days per week. This is her second year of the three-year old program. The end recommendation of the IEP was to have her attend special education preschool as well as typical. 50/50 Split. This is because Olivia has not met all of her goals for the past year.

I had hoped to just keep her in typical school for as long as I could. I didn't think I'd have to face this decision until 4th or 5th grade. This hit me like a ton of bricks. However, I don't have it in me to ignore a recommendation that could potentially BETTER my child.

Olivia is really very much a BABY. She is not showing much progress in any area. I see little improvements here and there, and I REJOICE in them. Her typical preschool teacher was present at the meeting today and came right out and told me that she doesn't have the TIME to put in the repetition necessary for Olivia to pick up a concept. That made me very angry and brought me to tears. I excused myself from the room until I could gain composure and came back to ask her, "Is Olivia not welcome at your school?". She told me that she loves having Olivia as part of the class, but she thinks that being in special school as well as typical will really help her.

This does make sense to me, as Olivia will need to pass her kindergarten testing in order to STAY in typical school

Has this approach worked for anyone here?

At what age do I HAVE to get Olivia into Kindergarten? (I was planning on age 7 if that's possible!)

Has anyone here ever gone against a 'recommendation' of an IEP meeting?

Also, were or are your children still very much BABIES at the age of 4? Olivia acts as though she's between 18 months and 2 years of age right now. Will I see her catch up soon?

Thank you,

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.It's already tomorrow in Australia ' ( Schultz)

Novos endereços, o Yahoo! que você conhece. Crie um email novo com a sua cara @ymail.com ou @rocketmail.com.

[Guest guest]

Carolyn,

Your Olivia is just beautiful! I couldn’t figure out why I couldn’t see the pictures everyone was talking about until just now...for whatever reason, the date that is showing up is 1/1/02 when you sent them...isn’t that weird? So I finally saw all the pictures of Olivia and that beautiful one of you. Very nice!

Colleen

Kathi,

Would you believe she does have a TSS in the classroom with her full-time?

Everyone just keeps telling me about how stubborn she is. She does have chutzpah - but she is a darling angel with a mind of her own!

I've attached a pic.

Thank you!

Carolyn

http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm <http://stores.ebay.com/ck-antiques_W0QQsspagenameZL2222QQtZkm>

We've gone co-op! Come and see our newest location at Black Diamond Antiques in the Schuylkill Mall, Frackville, PA!

<http://www.rubylane.com/shops/bella-antiques>

'Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.

It's already tomorrow in Australia '

( Schultz)