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Re: Lower Back Issues

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I'm about a third of the way through Stuart McGill's book " Ultimate Back

Fitness and Performance " and would recomend you get hold of a copy of this

book or his previous one " Low back Disorder " and read what he has to

say. That would be my suggestion.

Medically I would seek as many other opinions as possible also to find a

good solutions especially people who relate to sport performance.

Regards

Nick Tatalias

Johannesburg

South Africa

>

> Supertrainers,

>

> Quite by chance I had an Xray taken of my lumbar vertebra on Weds (it was

> part of a boy scout activity). As we discovered, my L4 and L5 are not

> parallel (closer to each other on the spinal cord side) and close to

> pinching the disc. The L5 and sacrum touch each other. So L4, L5 and the

> sacrum make a tight " C " . The others are nicely parallel.

>

> The guy that took the xray said " I didn't know you had back problems. "

>

> I didn't know either...never had any pain.

>

> He's a chiro, and immediately recommended treatment and for me to quit

> doing squats, overhead presses, and anything else that is fun. And I had

> just added deadlifts to my routine and was working on going deeper in my

> squats.

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My advice is to get a second opinion.

Lowry, DC

Dr. Lowry, LLC

1220 Knox Abbott Drive

Suite D

Cayce, SC 29033

USA

--- Brett wrote:

> Supertrainers,

>

> Quite by chance I had an Xray taken of my lumbar

> vertebra on Weds (it was part of a boy scout

> activity). As we discovered, my L4 and L5 are not

> parallel (closer to each other on the spinal cord

> side) and close to pinching the disc. The L5 and

> sacrum touch each other. So L4, L5 and the sacrum

> make a tight " C " . The others are nicely parallel.

>

> The guy that took the xray said " I didn't know you

> had back problems. "

>

> I didn't know either...never had any pain.

>

> He's a chiro, and immediately recommended treatment

> and for me to quit doing squats, overhead presses,

> and anything else that is fun. And I had just added

> deadlifts to my routine and was working on going

> deeper in my squats.

>

> Any advice please.

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Brett,

I would get other opinions. You have experienced no back pain? Your back may

not appear to be normal, however it may be " normal " for you. I would also have

other films taken and read by another health care professional. You may develop

back pain if you let this Chiro start adjusting you. I would be cautious of any

modality if you choose to pursue this.

My best to you

Damien Chiappini

SPFS

Pittsburgh,PA.

Brett wrote:

<<<<Quite by chance I had an Xray taken of my lumbar vertebra on Weds (it was

part of a boy scout activity). As we discovered, my L4 and L5 are not parallel

(closer to each other on the spinal cord side) and close to pinching the disc.

The L5 and sacrum touch each other. So L4, L5 and the sacrum make a tight " C " .

The others are nicely parallel.

The guy that took the xray said " I didn't know you had back problems. "

I didn't know either...never had any pain.

He's a chiro, and immediately recommended treatment and for me to quit doing

squats, overhead presses, and anything else that is fun. And I had just added

deadlifts to my routine and was working on going deeper in my squats.>>>

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> --- Brett wrote:

>

> > Supertrainers,

> >

> > Quite by chance I had an Xray taken of my lumbar

> > vertebra on Weds (it was part of a boy scout

> > activity). As we discovered, my L4 and L5 are not

> > parallel (closer to each other on the spinal cord

> > side) and close to pinching the disc. The L5 and

> > sacrum touch each other. So L4, L5 and the sacrum

> > make a tight " C " . The others are nicely parallel.

> >

> > The guy that took the xray said " I didn't know you

> > had back problems. "

> >

> > I didn't know either...never had any pain.

> >

> > He's a chiro, and immediately recommended treatment

> > and for me to quit doing squats, overhead presses,

> > and anything else that is fun. And I had just added

> > deadlifts to my routine and was working on going

> > deeper in my squats.

> >

> > Any advice please.

Dear Brett,

Hi, I'm a musculoskeletal Physiotherapist over in the UK and have to

say I am horrified at the advice given to you by the chiro. Over here

lumbar x-rays are not advocated for many patients for exactly the

reason you have posted - the correlation between x-rays and pain is

poor to say the least. The majority of people will demonstrate age

related changes on x-ray with disc changes being amongst the most

common. It will not reveal how you routinely load that area or the

ability of your lumbopelvic region to accomodate to activity and

tasks. Without being cynical or wishing to belittle Lowry it is

difficult to get a second opinion on a symptomless condition that is

present asymptomatically in a large percentage of the population. The

kind of scaremonger tactics by SOME chiros/physios/osteos/medics and

given by the chiro who radiographed you has led to countless wasted

hours of therapy and needless surgery.

On a technical note your discs are constantly being 'pinched' between

your vertebrae as they are in direct contact with them!! If you are

concerned about the future AND I WOULDN'T BE simply go to a good local

gym and check that you maintain a NEUTRAL lumbar position when

lifting. Continue using your body in the healthy, active and pain-free

way you already are.

Long life and best wishes

Craig Chambers (Chunkypuffin)

Wakefield, England

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This is from my personal experience. Please quit

training and go in for treatment. It might not sound

too harhcore and might make you feel a little soft, but

believe me its worth it in the long term. I had some

slight irritation in my R knee and my R glute. I

ignored the pain and kept lifting until even body-wt

squats were hurting me like hell. Thats when I went to

an MS Ortho. I had to undergo knee surgery for a torn

Plica and still am undergoing rehab for my Sciatica. My

knee still hurts me sometimes. Its been almost a year

now and I`m still not lifting wts-I cant. Only rehab

work. And I`m only 24.

And another thing. I`m not saying that Chiropractors

are not good but I would recommend going to an Ortho

and getting an MRI scan. Multiple opinions wont hurt

either. But please get some treatment. Right now

you`re saying that it doesnt hurt you. Well, if you

dont get some treatment right now, believe me, it

will.

Amit Sardal

Mumbai,India.

__________________________________

--- Brett wrote:

> Supertrainers,

>

> Quite by chance I had an Xray taken of my lumbar

> vertebra on Weds (it was part of a boy scout

> activity). As we discovered, my L4 and L5 are not

> parallel (closer to each other on the spinal cord

> side) and close to pinching the disc. The L5 and

> sacrum touch each other. So L4, L5 and the sacrum

> make a tight " C " . The others are nicely parallel.

>

> The guy that took the xray said " I didn't know you

> had back problems. "

>

> I didn't know either...never had any pain.

>

> He's a chiro, and immediately recommended treatment

> and for me to quit doing squats, overhead presses,

> and anything else that is fun. And I had just added

> deadlifts to my routine and was working on going

> deeper in my squats.

>

> Any advice please.

>

> Brett

> Draper, UT

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Hi Brett,

So what, exactly, does your practitioner propose to " treat " ? You

aren't having any pain nor have you ever had any, you really don't

have " back problems " . You may seek a second opinion if you wish.

However, since you don't seem to really have a medical problem (and

I'm not practicing medicine), I suggest that you don't eliminate any

exercises that you're doing.

Also, another poster mentioned Stuart McGill's " Ultimate Back Fitness

and Performance " --definitely worthwhile book to read (to an extent

even more than " Low Back Disorders " , and I've heard him present

twice, once on each topic).

The biggest thing to remember (and I just looked up the research

study for someone else) is that just because you see something on an

X-ray or MRI doesn't it has any relevance. The research study did

MRIs on people without back pain and found over 60 percent had

bulging disks or other anomalies.

As a competitive powerlifter who received a diagnosis in 1993

of " degenerative disk disease), I'm now stronger than ever before

through deadlifting, competition depth squats, etc.

I hope this helps!

Merrick, M.A.

ACSM HFI, NSCA CPT/CSCS, NASM CPT

Bellevue, NE

Brett wrote:

<<<Quite by chance I had an Xray taken of my lumbar vertebra on Weds (it

was part of a boy scout activity). As we discovered, my L4 and L5

are not parallel (closer to each other on the spinal cord side) and

close to pinching the disc. The L5 and sacrum touch each other. So

L4, L5 and the sacrum make a tight " C " . The others are nicely

parallel.

The guy that took the xray said " I didn't know you had back problems. "

I didn't know either...never had any pain.

He's a chiro, and immediately recommended treatment and for me to

quit doing squats, overhead presses, and anything else that is fun.

And I had just added deadlifts to my routine and was working on going

deeper in my squats..>>>

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Craig,

Was not my response AND yours a " second opinion? " ;)

Lowry, DC

Dr. Lowry, LLC

1220 Knox Abbott Drive

Suite D

Cayce, SC 29033

USA

Without being cynical or wishing to belittle

> Lowry it is

> difficult to get a second opinion on a symptomless

> condition that is

> present asymptomatically in a large percentage of

> the population. The

> kind of scaremonger tactics by SOME

> chiros/physios/osteos/medics and

> given by the chiro who radiographed you has led to

> countless wasted

> hours of therapy and needless surgery.

>

> Craig Chambers (Chunkypuffin)

> Wakefield, England

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If it doesn't hurt it's probably ok. Are you

seriously going to get treatment for symptoms that don't even exist? The

first thing a chiropractor will do is ensure you have to go back for more

treatment, when it starts to hurt he'll tell you this is normal, 20

appointments later you'll regret you ever met him/her.

Symes

London, UK

>

> Brett,

>

> One thing to keep in mind is that a " neutral curve " is completely relative

> to the individual and it is transient in nature. Point being you'll need

> to

> find the ROM that is " right " or " neutral " for you, but in more than one

> position. For instance, the anatomical position of standing upright puts

> all

> joints into extension and the lumbar spine into " neutral posture " but

> nobody

> stays in the position 24/7. A person needs to progressively build their

> tolerance in " non-neutral " positions for active daily living, or specific

> sport/occupation, and this in turn becomes " neutral " for that particular

> postural configuration. The term " neutral spine " has lost its meaning as

> the

> rehab thru sports performance continuum hasn't been clearly defined. In

> fact, this is why it makes sense to train the motion and not the muscles,

> because it's about grooving efficient patterns of movement throughout the

> kinetic chain and not necessarily isolating and/or strengthening the core

> region...best of luck!

>

> Todd Langer, MS

> Lafayette, CO

>

>

> Re: Re: Lower Back Issues

>

> And wonderful second opinions they are!!! Thank you all for your

> responses,

> I appreciate the depth and diversity thus far. As a professional engineer,

> it is in my nature to get a few more opinions as well.

>

> I don't compete, but have been doing squats as part of my routine for 22

> years, with a short period in '93 when I was gym-less and my home built

> squat rack left much to be desired.

>

> At a minimum, this is a wake up call to me to work on other core muscles

> that I've been ignoring, including my TVA. Also, I've always emphasized

> lumbar curve, whereas now I'll try and keep a neutral curve.

>

> Brett

> Draper, UT

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---

Hi Dave!

It is not unusual for x-rays to show conditons that are not manifest

by pain or disability. Life is too short to not have fun. Continue

your lifting activities with good form and reasonable progression. If

symptoms appear then take action.

Best wishes!

Dan Wathen, Youngstown (OH) State University, USA

In Supertraining , " Brett " wrote:

>

> Supertrainers,

>

> Quite by chance I had an Xray taken of my lumbar vertebra on Weds

(it was part of a boy scout activity). As we discovered, my L4 and L5

are not parallel (closer to each other on the spinal cord side) and

close to pinching the disc. The L5 and sacrum touch each other. So

L4, L5 and the sacrum make a tight " C " . The others are nicely parallel.

>

> The guy that took the xray said " I didn't know you had back problems. "

>

> I didn't know either...never had any pain.

>

> He's a chiro, and immediately recommended treatment and for me to

quit doing squats, overhead presses, and anything else that is fun.

And I had just added deadlifts to my routine and was working on going

deeper in my squats.

>

> Any advice please.

>

> Brett

> Draper, UT

>

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