Re: Something that has given me a great deal of relief

[Guest guest]

,

Cooler weather is correlated with less/slower fungal growth outdoors. However, it also affects the vapor pressure of VOCs. Be aware that HEPA filtration will do nothing to capture MVOCs. HEPA filters may even concentrate particles containing MVOCs on the filter which then will become an emitter of VOCs. You didn't mention what type of respirator you have been wearing. You should compare your HEPA or allergy mask (filtering facepiece respirator) with a charcoal filtered mask. Based upon your post, you will probably know whether it is working or not right away, . If the charcoal is more effective, it would demonstrate that you are reactive to the volatile compounds. You don't need a charcoal canister organic vapor cartridge respirator. You can use a charcoal impregnated or charcoal-layer facepiece (if it fits well) such as the Moldex 2400 N95 nuisance o/v mask (http://store.pksafety.net/mo24ovduma.html) or equivalent to filter low-level concentrations of MVOCs.

I hope this suggestion can give you more relief. Good luck.

Steve Temes

I have been gagging out here in this el paso trailer park all summer,

don't know weather it's the mulberry trees, the moldy trailers next to

me, my having to go into my moldy trailer for food, etc. or some

combination of all of these things. But since the weather has cooled I

have been able to run a large hepa filter in my truck camper and a mid

size one in my car. (This is how I started, I put the filter in the

car and slept in it the thought being 8 hours under my belt of no

exposure. I woke up feeling great and progressively got worse as the

day wore on. So I supplemented this with a filter in my truck camper

and wearing a respirator ANY time I ventured out. While they NEVER

worked in my house or my trailer they have helped reduce my symptoms

drastically in the truck camper and my car. When I go into the trailer

or even outside I wear a respirator and try to keep myself protected

24 hours. My thinking why I have had the outstanding success with them

here but never in the past is because the car and the truck camper

(home made) are relativity mold free and very small with large hepa

filters in them. So it is a type of BRUTE FORCE approach where I am

getting multiple air changes every minute combined with a relatively

clean environment to start with.

I recently went to my dad's house in NC which I lived at for 9 months

and it figuratively almost killed me. I did very well by using this

method of avoidance (just last month). Went to walmart bought a $37

9x7 dome shaped tent. (nylon low voc, no stakes needed poles will

support it with no wind.) I sat it up on the porch and used a large

honeywell hepa filter that probably changed the air out 4 or 5 times a

minute. I did very well there even split a truck load of wood for my

dad which I couldn't do when I lived there before because of the

overwhelming symptoms.

Just thought I would share this with those that are still suffering

and those on this list that deal with these people everyday.

Also hope someone will try it and verify what I am saying and maybe

pass it on to sick buildings.

[Guest guest]

Respirator I am using is aol safety r5700 has cartrage on filter and says it's good for organic vapor so I should be covered with the respirator as far as voc's go, but as you say with the hepa filters probably not. The respirator said it was good for asbestos and mold abatement and that's why I bought it. I have never used " paper " for lack of a better description " mask's " such as the one you suggest that has a diaphragm in it. Didn't think they were effective. For a long time I didn't think resperators like the one I am using were because I seemed to get sick weather I wore them or not. My problem was that I didn't wear it 24 hours a day I think if I had done this or used hepas like I am doing now than I would not have misled or fooled myself like this.

I often wondered how manufactures such as honeywell claim " lifetime " even if they only mean like 5 years that seems a lot especially when you factor in vocs getting collected and than regurgitated as you say. Some people say the glue they use in the manufacturing can make you sick. I think my throat feels a little dry when I am using them especially when I wake up in the morning. I have felt in the past hepas actually made me worse but attribute this to the swings we all endure and not to using the hepa. Correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation.

I have never directly associated voc's with the same crippling symptoms that mold seems to give me so while I am concerned about them I am very happy to finally get some relief from the mold symptoms. Anyone who has read my past post's here might have read that I actually worked with polyester resin's, epoxies, gelcoats, pollyuerathanes, acetone, fiberglass and gelcoat dust etc. on my boat POST MCS SBS or whatever you want to call it, mind you, just to prove to myself that I am not sensitive to these substances. I do credit doing this with taking my mold sensitivities to a new level but never with all these exposures to these substances did I have anywhere near the reactivity I have to mold.

Any suggestions for a mask that will filter tiny particles like mold but not voc's? Being the mask I am using works I would like to test this theory and see if I am very sensitive to voc's I have always thought not. Not in the way I am to mold and possibly other things such as pollen and what not.

Thanks for the suggestions Steve,

,

Cooler weather is correlated with less/slower fungal growth outdoors. However, it also affects the vapor pressure of VOCs. Be aware that HEPA filtration will do nothing to capture MVOCs. HEPA filters may even concentrate particles containing MVOCs on the filter which then will become an emitter of VOCs. You didn't mention what type of respirator you have been wearing. You should compare your HEPA or allergy mask (filtering facepiece respirator) with a charcoal filtered mask. Based upon your post, you will probably know whether it is working or not right away, . If the charcoal is more effective, it would demonstrate that you are reactive to the volatile compounds. You don't need a charcoal canister organic vapor cartridge respirator. You can use a charcoal impregnated or charcoal-layer facepiece (if it fits well) such as the Moldex 2400 N95 nuisance o/v mask (http://store.pksafety.net/mo24ovduma.html) or equivalent to filter low-level concentrations of MVOCs.

I hope this suggestion can give you more relief. Good luck.

Steve Temes

I

[Guest guest]

Please be aware that this mask may not be safe for human health,

considering what is now known about flame retardants.

linda

....

(http://store.pksafety.net/mo24ovduma.html)

" Flame retardants are added to the shell to help decrease

flammability, which is especially useful in welding applications. "

[Guest guest]

Kind of scary, I would prefer to take my chances on the thing catching on fire myself. Do you have any links that verify they do this? I was considering buying some of them them but now I'm not so sure.

Please be aware that this mask may not be safe for human health, considering what is now known about flame retardants. linda

.... (http://store.pksafety.net/mo24ovduma.html) " Flame retardants are added to the shell to help decrease

flammability, which is especially useful in welding applications. "

[Guest guest]

From the new SNFTAAS coordinator, Tony Gibson: Hi Pip

First of all I would suggest they visit my web sight www.gloveup.co.nz and look at the Resene article I have put on there. Maybe it could be very simple as washing the mask each time it has been used - that way it will eliminate any bacteria that is left in the mask itself. That is something not many people do? or are aware of. Hope this will help.

Regards Gibbo

[Guest guest]

Trailers and formaldehyde often seem to go together, too... And poor

insulation seems as if it tends to create a mold friendly situation,

especially if humidity is not aggressively managed at the sources.

So, I keep thinking, another alternative would be purchasing a small

HRV, strapping it to a decent filter, and keeping it and all the

ducting both to and from it as simple and clean (and cleanable, which

means smooth) as possible.

That seems like a much more common sense solution (a dilution

solution) because filters only remove a subset of indoor air

contaminants (particulates) and that often not well.

Charcoal filters don't last very long if they are used continuously.

Heat recovery ventilators are preferable to energy recovery

ventilators for mold sensitive people, I think, because of the

aluminum cores are easy to clean and don't inherently grow mold..

The other alternative is leaving two windows slightly open all day

long, whenever its not raining or snowing outside.. one low and one

high. That is expensive.. though.. in both winter and summer.. But it

keeps a constant flow of fresh air exchange..

In the long run, a cheap HRV would be far cheaper..

Panasonic has one that I have seen on Ebay for around $325.

Its shaped like a bathroom vent fan except that it has two 4 duct

connections instead of one..

[Guest guest]



Live Simply

In many climates (where outdoor air has a high Dew Point Temperature & Moisture Content) you will need a dehumidifier in operation for a part of the year if you regularly ventilate; an HRV tends to have a higher total more air movement than just opening windows.

For a healthy home you need continuous ventilation, for a number of reasons. You may also need dehumidification.

Jim H. White SSC

Re: Re: Something that has given me a great deal of relief

Trailers and formaldehyde often seem to go together, too... And poorinsulation seems as if it tends to create a mold friendly situation,especially if humidity is not aggressively managed at the sources.So, I keep thinking, another alternative would be purchasing a smallHRV, strapping it to a decent filter, and keeping it and all theducting both to and from it as simple and clean (and cleanable, whichmeans smooth) as possible.That seems like a much more common sense solution (a dilutionsolution) because filters only remove a subset of indoor aircontaminants (particulates) and that often not well.Charcoal filters don't last very long if they are used continuously.Heat recovery ventilators are preferable to energy recoveryventilators for mold sensitive people, I think, because of thealuminum cores are easy to clean and don't inherently grow mold..The other alternative is leaving two windows slightly open all daylong, whenever its not raining or snowing outside.. one low and onehigh. That is expensive.. though.. in both winter and summer.. But itkeeps a constant flow of fresh air exchange..In the long run, a cheap HRV would be far cheaper..Panasonic has one that I have seen on Ebay for around $325.Its shaped like a bathroom vent fan except that it has two 4 ductconnections instead of one..

[Guest guest]

I usually just wipe the condensate off the inside, I suppose it would be wise to use some type of disinfectant periodically.Read about your son, I am sorry that happened. Thank you for bringing awareness to the hazards of industrial chemicals. I worked on boats in my early 20's and while I always thought I was much more careful than most as far as exposure goes I cringe now in hindsight to all the exposure I have had. That and my pesticide exposure I believe are responsible for my extreme mold sensitivity to the point of not being able to work or even take care of simple household chores with any degree of consistency. It's one of the reasons why I am against the mold related law suits, I think the chemical company's are getting away LITERALLY with murder while others are being held accountable for the damage these companies have done. I just have an extremely difficult time believing something as natural and ubiquitous as mold is responsible for all this suffering. I believe we all got a push one way or another.

From the new SNFTAAS coordinator, Tony Gibson: Hi Pip

First of all I would suggest they visit my web sight www.gloveup.co.nz and look at the Resene article I have put on there. Maybe it could be very simple as washing the mask each time it has been used - that way it will eliminate any bacteria that is left in the mask itself. That is something not many people do? or are aware of. Hope this will help.

Regards Gibbo

[Guest guest]

Live,The reason I brought up the tent concept is because so many people are living in homes they are so highly sensitized to that dilution doesn't work. You have to get out, for most this isn't an option. I was in a brand new home that had me mostly bed ridden. Looking back I would have used the hepas if I thought they were effective. At the time I didn't think they were, because they simply are not useful at all in moldy dwellings. So I got the mistakin impression they were useless based on my past experience in these moldy dwellings.

By putting a large hepa in that small tent on the porch of a very moldy 70 year old home I was able to isolate myself from the cripling symptoms I would have otherwise had to endure. I wish I could do that here in el paso because I think my car and camper might have minor (hidden) mold problems that are still causing me some reactivity. I just don't have anywhere I can set up a tent in this small lot I am in.

Also we all develop misconceptions about what is causing our reactivity. These misconceptions can be our worst enemies. Putting up the tent and controling the envirment inside of it can quickly put a lot of these misconceptions to rest.

Trailers and formaldehyde often seem to go together, too... And poor

insulation seems as if it tends to create a mold friendly situation,

especially if humidity is not aggressively managed at the sources.

So, I keep thinking, another alternative would be purchasing a small

HRV, strapping it to a decent filter, and keeping it and all the

ducting both to and from it as simple and clean (and cleanable, which

means smooth) as possible.

That seems like a much more common sense solution (a dilution

solution) because filters only remove a subset of indoor air

contaminants (particulates) and that often not well.

Charcoal filters don't last very long if they are used continuously.

Heat recovery ventilators are preferable to energy recovery

ventilators for mold sensitive people, I think, because of the

aluminum cores are easy to clean and don't inherently grow mold..

The other alternative is leaving two windows slightly open all day

long, whenever its not raining or snowing outside.. one low and one

high. That is expensive.. though.. in both winter and summer.. But it

keeps a constant flow of fresh air exchange..

In the long run, a cheap HRV would be far cheaper..

Panasonic has one that I have seen on Ebay for around $325.

Its shaped like a bathroom vent fan except that it has two 4 duct

connections instead of one..

[Guest guest]

An HRV would be a great solution in a dry climate like Arizona or Southern California. How would you factor in the humidity increase lets say on a southern coast line like Houston, New Orleans, or say Miami. An HRV would increase the likelihood of mold growth inside the trailer.

The only options I see is on future trailers being built find alternative building materials and construction methods to reduce the VOC levels. On existing trailers a recirculating air purification system would reduce the levels. We have tried to no avail to speak with FEMA on this subject and its like a VODO topic.

Subject: Re: Re: Something that has given me a great deal of reliefTo: iequality Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 10:39 AM

Trailers and formaldehyde often seem to go together, too... And poorinsulation seems as if it tends to create a mold friendly situation,especially if humidity is not aggressively managed at the sources.So, I keep thinking, another alternative would be purchasing a smallHRV, strapping it to a decent filter, and keeping it and all theducting both to and from it as simple and clean (and cleanable, whichmeans smooth) as possible.That seems like a much more common sense solution (a dilutionsolution) because filters only remove a subset of indoor aircontaminants (particulates) and that often not well.Charcoal filters don't last very long if they are used continuously.Heat recovery ventilators are preferable to energy recoveryventilators for mold sensitive people, I think, because of thealuminum cores are easy to clean and don't inherently grow mold..The other alternative is

leaving two windows slightly open all daylong, whenever its not raining or snowing outside.. one low and onehigh. That is expensive.. though.. in both winter and summer.. But itkeeps a constant flow of fresh air exchange..In the long run, a cheap HRV would be far cheaper..Panasonic has one that I have seen on Ebay for around $325.Its shaped like a bathroom vent fan except that it has two 4 ductconnections instead of one..

[Guest guest]

Thank you, yes, yes yes..that is a very good point. But, although its an additional upfront cost if you didn't have one already (we did) once you have it all set up, it just works.Our home is tiny so its all very low key and low tech..

Even with the theoretically higher cost of having our dehumidifier run a bit more on some days of the year,I would say we have saved a lot of money overall with the HRV, because the AC runs less- much less.

We will see with the winter, but my gut feeling is that it wont add much, if anything to our heating cost, and the ability to have pre-warmed fresh air all the time is priceless for me.. Its typically only on for a percentage of the time.. when it is its basically almost inaudible.



Live Simply

In many climates (where outdoor air has a high Dew Point Temperature & Moisture Content) you will need a dehumidifier in operation for a part of the year if you regularly ventilate; an HRV tends to have a higher total more air movement than just opening windows.

For a healthy home you need continuous ventilation, for a number of reasons. You may also need dehumidification.

Jim H. White SSC

Re: Re: Something that has given me a great deal of relief

Trailers and formaldehyde often seem to go together, too... And poorinsulation seems as if it tends to create a mold friendly situation,especially if humidity is not aggressively managed at the sources.So, I keep thinking, another alternative would be purchasing a smallHRV, strapping it to a decent filter, and keeping it and all theducting both to and from it as simple and clean (and cleanable, whichmeans smooth) as possible.That seems like a much more common sense solution (a dilutionsolution) because filters only remove a subset of indoor aircontaminants (particulates) and that often not well.Charcoal filters don't last very long if they are used continuously.Heat recovery ventilators are preferable to energy recoveryventilators for mold sensitive people, I think, because of thealuminum cores are easy to clean and don't inherently grow mold..The other alternative is leaving two windows slightly open all daylong, whenever its not raining or snowing outside.. one low and onehigh. That is expensive.. though.. in both winter and summer.. But itkeeps a constant flow of fresh air exchange..In the long run, a cheap HRV would be far cheaper..Panasonic has one that I have seen on Ebay for around $325.Its shaped like a bathroom vent fan except that it has two 4 ductconnections instead of one..

[Guest guest]

Dehumidification is a more likely solution to the problem and also provides much better comfort in warm or hot conditions. Our primary cooling mechanism is evaporation so keeping the indoor RH low allows us to be comfortable at much higher dry bulb temperatures.

Jim H. White SSC

Re: Re: Something that has given me a great deal of reliefTo: iequality Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 10:39 AM

Trailers and formaldehyde often seem to go together, too... And poorinsulation seems as if it tends to create a mold friendly situation,especially if humidity is not aggressively managed at the sources.So, I keep thinking, another alternative would be purchasing a smallHRV, strapping it to a decent filter, and keeping it and all theducting both to and from it as simple and clean (and cleanable, whichmeans smooth) as possible.That seems like a much more common sense solution (a dilutionsolution) because filters only remove a subset of indoor aircontaminants (particulates) and that often not well.Charcoal filters don't last very long if they are used continuously.Heat recovery ventilators are preferable to energy recoveryventilators for mold sensitive people, I think, because of thealuminum cores are easy to clean and don't inherently grow mold..The other alternative is leaving two windows slightly open all daylong, whenever its not raining or snowing outside.. one low and onehigh. That is expensive.. though.. in both winter and summer.. But itkeeps a constant flow of fresh air exchange..In the long run, a cheap HRV would be far cheaper..Panasonic has one that I have seen on Ebay for around $325.Its shaped like a bathroom vent fan except that it has two 4 ductconnections instead of one..