Re: Chelation - Everyone I talk to in the mainstream is against it.

September 22, 2008

----- Original Message -----

From: thegeekwiththetrick

Now the situation is like so:I have 7 different experts, doctors, academics / chemists / Scientistswho are against doing chelation, Cutler protocol or other, they sayit's dangerous, and no one really knows what it does to the brain. Howthe brain works etc. They basically say, no one has a clue, you betterwait and continue the speech therapy / music therapy etc, (which wewill do anyway chelation or not).

===>Ask them what heavy metals do to the brain; lead and cadmium lower IQ's, mercury cause seizures, create lots of Bipolar kids at adolescence and cause oxidative stress. These are just a few of the things caused by keeping the heavy metals in the brain.

Ask them what heavy metals do to the body; Multiple Sclerosis, Parkinson's disease, Anorexia, CANCER, Lou Gerig's disease and Diabetes to name a few.

Chelation is dangerous when done by most drs who don't know what they are doing, true of most Dans!

We chelated our little one starting at 3.5 years and she is now 7.5. She is in a typical second grade, starting her third year in a typical classroom without support. Her Reading and Math skills test at the 9th grade level so I can't see where her brain might have been hurt or if it has held her back, we're grateful. Her school awards Social skills and she has been picked Twice, once for the Kindness Award in First Grade, this year for the Responsibility Award. Only one child from each class is rewarded.

She's funny, spontaneous and has plenty of friends to choose from.

She was headed for a lifetime of Special Ed and social isolation, save for chelation. If that's brain damage, we'll take it.

September 22, 2008

Hi Ron

Where in the UK are you located? Which parents do you know on this list

already? Are you working with a practitioner? Have you tested for heavy

metals and your child is toxic? Sorry for all the questions. I have not

chelated my child but I do know she is high in metals. She also has

bowel problems and we have helped that quite a bit with diet and

biomed, conventional drugs too. As you say its difficult to know, maybe

we never do know what would happen with or without interventions. I am

interested in your answers. If I sound a bit reticent sorry it would

just be nice to know some more about your experiences to date. Sorry if

you have already said this, I am not on here a great deal these days.

Lots of luck with your child.

Kind Wishes

Caroline

September 22, 2008

Our NHS paediatrician was not against it, she just didn't think it

would help. Nobody mainstream has ever told us that chelation per se

is dangerous. the NHS chelates people with lead and mercury poisoning

using the same chemical chelators that Andy et al use, although I

think they use more IV and less regular-dose oral.

It's the need to chelate that is contentious I think, not chelation

itself in many cases. In fact it's the less mainstream people (people

like Andy Cutler) who warn against chelation - in his case he would

warn you off it unless you were following the low dose, very regular

protocol. That's not how the NHS chelates I am pretty certain

>

> (Just a repost to what I wrote in the Autism-Mercury group, Looking

> for UK parents who walked this path)

>

> Our situation is complex I guess all the parents here go through the a

> similar path. I came to this group after a fellow parent introduced me

> to the Amalgam problem and I knew our 19 month old was exposed

> to mercury / Amalgam when she was 5 months old.

>

> Now the situation is like so:

>

> I have 7 different experts, doctors, academics / chemists / Scientists

> who are against doing chelation, Cutler protocol or other, they say

> it's dangerous, and no one really knows what it does to the brain. How

> the brain works etc. They basically say, no one has a clue, you better

> wait and continue the speech therapy / music therapy etc, (which we

> will do anyway chelation or not).

>

> And I have this forum, where I read some success stories and

> encouraging words and people who put lots of time and effort to help

> each other, and tell me I should be doing chelation now !

>

> Our girl is moving forward and does make progress, very slowly but she

> does move ahead and learn new things. And I would only be able to know

> the outcome of my choices at the end of the road. So my gut feeling

> says 'do it'.

>

> I am not trying to get a %100 assurances, but I wish I had some more

> information on success / failure stories to show the sceptics,

>

> -- What age did you start doing chelation ?

> -- How long did it take ?

> -- What where the problems before chelation ?

> -- What got much better / Worse after doing it ?

> -- What other therapies were you doing at the time ?

> -- How do you know chelation is what made the big difference ?

>

> Anyone in UK who would be happy to meet us to try and show us a

> success story ? Please write to me, We would be really happy to meet

> and travel to learn from your experience.

>

> Thanks

>

> Ron

>

September 22, 2008

There is some research (on rats) which suggests that unnecessary

chelation lowers IQ. Natasa mentioned it a few days ago. It's probably

the reason why the autism/chelation research proposed in the States has

been abandoned.

Sally

stephaniesirr wrote:

>

> Our NHS paediatrician was not against it, she just didn't think it

> would help. Nobody mainstream has ever told us that chelation per se

> is dangerous. the NHS chelates people with lead and mercury poisoning

> using the same chemical chelators that Andy et al use, although I

> think they use more IV and less regular-dose oral.

>

> It's the need to chelate that is contentious I think, not chelation

> itself in many cases. In fact it's the less mainstream people (people

> like Andy Cutler) who warn against chelation - in his case he would

> warn you off it unless you were following the low dose, very regular

> protocol. That's not how the NHS chelates I am pretty certain

>

> >

> > (Just a repost to what I wrote in the Autism-Mercury group, Looking

> > for UK parents who walked this path)

> >

> > Our situation is complex I guess all the parents here go through the a

> > similar path. I came to this group after a fellow parent introduced me

> > to the Amalgam problem and I knew our 19 month old was exposed

> > to mercury / Amalgam when she was 5 months old.

> >

> > Now the situation is like so:

> >

> > I have 7 different experts, doctors, academics / chemists / Scientists

> > who are against doing chelation, Cutler protocol or other, they say

> > it's dangerous, and no one really knows what it does to the brain. How

> > the brain works etc. They basically say, no one has a clue, you better

> > wait and continue the speech therapy / music therapy etc, (which we

> > will do anyway chelation or not).

> >

> > And I have this forum, where I read some success stories and

> > encouraging words and people who put lots of time and effort to help

> > each other, and tell me I should be doing chelation now !

> >

> > Our girl is moving forward and does make progress, very slowly but she

> > does move ahead and learn new things. And I would only be able to know

> > the outcome of my choices at the end of the road. So my gut feeling

> > says 'do it'.

> >

> > I am not trying to get a %100 assurances, but I wish I had some more

> > information on success / failure stories to show the sceptics,

> >

> > -- What age did you start doing chelation ?

> > -- How long did it take ?

> > -- What where the problems before chelation ?

> > -- What got much better / Worse after doing it ?

> > -- What other therapies were you doing at the time ?

> > -- How do you know chelation is what made the big difference ?

> >

> > Anyone in UK who would be happy to meet us to try and show us a

> > success story ? Please write to me, We would be really happy to meet

> > and travel to learn from your experience.

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > Ron

> >

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release Date: 21/09/2008

10:10

>

September 22, 2008

----- Original Message -----

From: Eva family

There is some research (on rats) which suggests that unnecessary chelation lowers IQ. Natasa mentioned it a few days ago. It's probably the reason why the autism/chelation research proposed in the States has been abandoned.

===>Yes, chelation where they gave the rats, huge doses of DMSA , twice a day. Really designed to cause as much brain damage as possible, that's the study and those are the results. Dans! should really read those things, as should we all.

Sallystephaniesirr wrote:>> Our NHS paediatrician was not against it, she just didn't think it> would help. Nobody mainstream has ever told us that chelation per se> is dangerous. the NHS chelates people with lead and mercury poisoning> using the same chemical chelators that Andy et al use, although I> think they use more IV and less regular-dose oral.>> It's the need to chelate that is contentious I think, not chelation> itself in many cases. In fact it's the less mainstream people (people> like Andy Cutler) who warn against chelation - in his case he would> warn you off it unless you were following the low dose, very regular> protocol. That's not how the NHS chelates I am pretty certain>> > >> > (Just a repost to what I wrote in the Autism-Mercury group, Looking> > for UK parents who walked this path)> >> > Our situation is complex I guess all the parents here go through the a> > similar path. I came to this group after a fellow parent introduced me> > to the Amalgam problem and I knew our 19 month old was exposed> > to mercury / Amalgam when she was 5 months old.> >> > Now the situation is like so:> >> > I have 7 different experts, doctors, academics / chemists / Scientists> > who are against doing chelation, Cutler protocol or other, they say> > it's dangerous, and no one really knows what it does to the brain. How> > the brain works etc. They basically say, no one has a clue, you better> > wait and continue the speech therapy / music therapy etc, (which we> > will do anyway chelation or not).> >> > And I have this forum, where I read some success stories and> > encouraging words and people who put lots of time and effort to help> > each other, and tell me I should be doing chelation now !> >> > Our girl is moving forward and does make progress, very slowly but she> > does move ahead and learn new things. And I would only be able to know> > the outcome of my choices at the end of the road. So my gut feeling> > says 'do it'.> >> > I am not trying to get a %100 assurances, but I wish I had some more> > information on success / failure stories to show the sceptics,> >> > -- What age did you start doing chelation ?> > -- How long did it take ?> > -- What where the problems before chelation ?> > -- What got much better / Worse after doing it ?> > -- What other therapies were you doing at the time ?> > -- How do you know chelation is what made the big difference ?> >> > Anyone in UK who would be happy to meet us to try and show us a> > success story ? Please write to me, We would be really happy to meet> > and travel to learn from your experience.> >> > Thanks> >> > Ron> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------->>> No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release Date: 21/09/2008 10:10>>

September 22, 2008

Could you post the link to the study ? I've lost it

Sally

Ladyshrink111@... wrote:

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> *From:* Eva family

>

> There is some research (on rats) which suggests that unnecessary

> chelation lowers IQ. Natasa mentioned it a few days ago. It's

> probably

> the reason why the autism/chelation research proposed in the

> States has

> been abandoned.

>

> ===>Yes, chelation where they gave the rats, huge doses of DMSA ,

> twice a day. Really designed to cause as much brain damage as

> possible, that's the study and those are the results. Dans!

> should really read those things, as should we all.

>

> Sally

>

> stephaniesirr wrote:

> >

> > Our NHS paediatrician was not against it, she just didn't think it

> > would help. Nobody mainstream has ever told us that chelation per se

> > is dangerous. the NHS chelates people with lead and mercury

> poisoning

> > using the same chemical chelators that Andy et al use, although I

> > think they use more IV and less regular-dose oral.

> >

> > It's the need to chelate that is contentious I think, not chelation

> > itself in many cases. In fact it's the less mainstream people

> (people

> > like Andy Cutler) who warn against chelation - in his case he would

> > warn you off it unless you were following the low dose, very regular

> > protocol. That's not how the NHS chelates I am pretty certain

> >

> > >

> > > (Just a repost to what I wrote in the Autism-Mercury group,

> Looking

> > > for UK parents who walked this path)

> > >

> > > Our situation is complex I guess all the parents here go

> through the a

> > > similar path. I came to this group after a fellow parent

> introduced me

> > > to the Amalgam problem and I knew our 19 month old was

> exposed

> > > to mercury / Amalgam when she was 5 months old.

> > >

> > > Now the situation is like so:

> > >

> > > I have 7 different experts, doctors, academics / chemists /

> Scientists

> > > who are against doing chelation, Cutler protocol or other,

> they say

> > > it's dangerous, and no one really knows what it does to the

> brain. How

> > > the brain works etc. They basically say, no one has a clue,

> you better

> > > wait and continue the speech therapy / music therapy etc,

> (which we

> > > will do anyway chelation or not).

> > >

> > > And I have this forum, where I read some success stories and

> > > encouraging words and people who put lots of time and effort

> to help

> > > each other, and tell me I should be doing chelation now !

> > >

> > > Our girl is moving forward and does make progress, very slowly

> but she

> > > does move ahead and learn new things. And I would only be able

> to know

> > > the outcome of my choices at the end of the road. So my gut

> feeling

> > > says 'do it'.

> > >

> > > I am not trying to get a %100 assurances, but I wish I had

> some more

> > > information on success / failure stories to show the sceptics,

> > >

> > > -- What age did you start doing chelation ?

> > > -- How long did it take ?

> > > -- What where the problems before chelation ?

> > > -- What got much better / Worse after doing it ?

> > > -- What other therapies were you doing at the time ?

> > > -- How do you know chelation is what made the big difference ?

> > >

> > > Anyone in UK who would be happy to meet us to try and show us a

> > > success story ? Please write to me, We would be really happy

> to meet

> > > and travel to learn from your experience.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > > Ron

> > >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>

> > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release Date:

> 21/09/2008 10:10

> >

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release Date: 21/09/2008

10:10

>

September 22, 2008

----- Original Message -----

From: Eva family

It's probably the reason why the autism/chelation research proposed in the States has been abandoned.

===>It's been abandoned for political reasons. And personally, I'm glad as the HUGE/INFREQUENT Dan! doses would find a fair number of kids getting worse.

But that's not why it was cancelled, and it wasn't out of concern for the children or of DMSA either as the kids who were going to be chelated were tested and found to have high levels of metals.

There is 50 years of research for lead chelation with children, nothing dangerous there, it's a standard allopathic treatment condoned by the AMA.

It was cancelled out of fear that if successful there would be those who would rightly make the connection that removing heavy metals would ameliorate Autistic traints. We could not have that.

Sallystephaniesirr wrote:>> Our NHS paediatrician was not against it, she just didn't think it> would help. Nobody mainstream has ever told us that chelation per se> is dangerous. the NHS chelates people with lead and mercury poisoning> using the same chemical chelators that Andy et al use, although I> think they use more IV and less regular-dose oral.>> It's the need to chelate that is contentious I think, not chelation> itself in many cases. In fact it's the less mainstream people (people> like Andy Cutler) who warn against chelation - in his case he would> warn you off it unless you were following the low dose, very regular> protocol. That's not how the NHS chelates I am pretty certain>> > >> > (Just a repost to what I wrote in the Autism-Mercury group, Looking> > for UK parents who walked this path)> >> > Our situation is complex I guess all the parents here go through the a> > similar path. I came to this group after a fellow parent introduced me> > to the Amalgam problem and I knew our 19 month old was exposed> > to mercury / Amalgam when she was 5 months old.> >> > Now the situation is like so:> >> > I have 7 different experts, doctors, academics / chemists / Scientists> > who are against doing chelation, Cutler protocol or other, they say> > it's dangerous, and no one really knows what it does to the brain. How> > the brain works etc. They basically say, no one has a clue, you better> > wait and continue the speech therapy / music therapy etc, (which we> > will do anyway chelation or not).> >> > And I have this forum, where I read some success stories and> > encouraging words and people who put lots of time and effort to help> > each other, and tell me I should be doing chelation now !> >> > Our girl is moving forward and does make progress, very slowly but she> > does move ahead and learn new things. And I would only be able to know> > the outcome of my choices at the end of the road. So my gut feeling> > says 'do it'.> >> > I am not trying to get a %100 assurances, but I wish I had some more> > information on success / failure stories to show the sceptics,> >> > -- What age did you start doing chelation ?> > -- How long did it take ?> > -- What where the problems before chelation ?> > -- What got much better / Worse after doing it ?> > -- What other therapies were you doing at the time ?> > -- How do you know chelation is what made the big difference ?> >> > Anyone in UK who would be happy to meet us to try and show us a> > success story ? Please write to me, We would be really happy to meet> > and travel to learn from your experience.> >> > Thanks> >> > Ron> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------->>> No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release Date: 21/09/2008 10:10>>

September 22, 2008

the rats that had high levels of lead did very well on that protocol

nx

----- Original Message -----

There is some research (on rats) which suggests that unnecessary

chelation lowers IQ. Natasa mentioned it a few days ago. It's probably

the reason why the autism/chelation research proposed in the States has

been abandoned.

===>Yes, chelation where they gave the rats, huge doses of DMSA , twice a day. Really designed to cause as much brain damage as possible, that's the study and those are the results. Dans! should really read those things, as should we all.

Sally

stephaniesirr wrote:

>

> Our NHS paediatrician was not against it, she just didn't think it

> would help. Nobody mainstream has ever told us that chelation per se

> is dangerous. the NHS chelates people with lead and mercury poisoning

> using the same chemical chelators that Andy et al use, although I

> think they use more IV and less regular-dose oral.

>

> It's the need to chelate that is contentious I think, not chelation

> itself in many cases. In fact it's the less mainstream people (people

> like Andy Cutler) who warn against chelation - in his case he would

> warn you off it unless you were following the low dose, very regular

> protocol. That's not how the NHS chelates I am pretty certain

>

> >

> > (Just a repost to what I wrote in the Autism-Mercury group, Looking

> > for UK parents who walked this path)

> >

> > Our situation is complex I guess all the parents here go through the a

> > similar path. I came to this group after a fellow parent introduced me

> > to the Amalgam problem and I knew our 19 month old was exposed

> > to mercury / Amalgam when she was 5 months old.

> >

> > Now the situation is like so:

> >

> > I have 7 different experts, doctors, academics / chemists / Scientists

> > who are against doing chelation, Cutler protocol or other, they say

> > it's dangerous, and no one really knows what it does to the brain. How

> > the brain works etc. They basically say, no one has a clue, you better

> > wait and continue the speech therapy / music therapy etc, (which we

> > will do anyway chelation or not).

> >

> > And I have this forum, where I read some success stories and

> > encouraging words and people who put lots of time and effort to help

> > each other, and tell me I should be doing chelation now !

> >

> > Our girl is moving forward and does make progress, very slowly but she

> > does move ahead and learn new things. And I would only be able to know

> > the outcome of my choices at the end of the road. So my gut feeling

> > says 'do it'.

> >

> > I am not trying to get a %100 assurances, but I wish I had some more

> > information on success / failure stories to show the sceptics,

> >

> > -- What age did you start doing chelation ?

> > -- How long did it take ?

> > -- What where the problems before chelation ?

> > -- What got much better / Worse after doing it ?

> > -- What other therapies were you doing at the time ?

> > -- How do you know chelation is what made the big difference ?

> >

> > Anyone in UK who would be happy to meet us to try and show us a

> > success story ? Please write to me, We would be really happy to meet

> > and travel to learn from your experience.

> >

> > Thanks

> >

> > Ron

> >

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release Date: 21/09/2008 10:10

>

September 22, 2008

I know, what I'm pointing out is that the rats that didn't have high

levels of lead did badly. Sometimes people are advised to do chelation

even if tests do not indicate any metal poisoning. The study showed that

rats without lead poisoning were damaged by the chelation. I would have

thought it un wise to claim the support of half a study. If you use the

bit that shows that the rats with high lead levels did well, you cannot

claim that the apparent damage to the rats without high lead levels (in

the same experiment) is meaningless.

Or rather, you can make that claim but I think that it may not bear much

weight

Sally

Neno/Natasa wrote:

>

> the rats that had high levels of lead did very well on that protocol

>

> nx

>

> ----- Original Message -----

>

> *From:* Eva family

>

> There is some research (on rats) which suggests that unnecessary

> chelation lowers IQ. Natasa mentioned it a few days ago. It's

> probably

> the reason why the autism/chelation research proposed in the

> States has

> been abandoned.

>

> ===>Yes, chelation where they gave the rats, huge doses of

> DMSA , twice a day. Really designed to cause as much brain

> damage as possible, that's the study and those are the

> results. Dans! should really read those things, as should we

> all.

>

> Sally

>

> stephaniesirr wrote:

> >

> > Our NHS paediatrician was not against it, she just didn't

> think it

> > would help. Nobody mainstream has ever told us that

> chelation per se

> > is dangerous. the NHS chelates people with lead and mercury

> poisoning

> > using the same chemical chelators that Andy et al use,

> although I

> > think they use more IV and less regular-dose oral.

> >

> > It's the need to chelate that is contentious I think, not

> chelation

> > itself in many cases. In fact it's the less mainstream

> people (people

> > like Andy Cutler) who warn against chelation - in his case

> he would

> > warn you off it unless you were following the low dose, very

> regular

> > protocol. That's not how the NHS chelates I am pretty certain

> >

> > >

> > > (Just a repost to what I wrote in the Autism-Mercury

> group, Looking

> > > for UK parents who walked this path)

> > >

> > > Our situation is complex I guess all the parents here go

> through the a

> > > similar path. I came to this group after a fellow parent

> introduced me

> > > to the Amalgam problem and I knew our 19 month old

> was exposed

> > > to mercury / Amalgam when she was 5 months old.

> > >

> > > Now the situation is like so:

> > >

> > > I have 7 different experts, doctors, academics / chemists

> / Scientists

> > > who are against doing chelation, Cutler protocol or other,

> they say

> > > it's dangerous, and no one really knows what it does to

> the brain. How

> > > the brain works etc. They basically say, no one has a

> clue, you better

> > > wait and continue the speech therapy / music therapy etc,

> (which we

> > > will do anyway chelation or not).

> > >

> > > And I have this forum, where I read some success stories and

> > > encouraging words and people who put lots of time and

> effort to help

> > > each other, and tell me I should be doing chelation now !

> > >

> > > Our girl is moving forward and does make progress, very

> slowly but she

> > > does move ahead and learn new things. And I would only be

> able to know

> > > the outcome of my choices at the end of the road. So my

> gut feeling

> > > says 'do it'.

> > >

> > > I am not trying to get a %100 assurances, but I wish I had

> some more

> > > information on success / failure stories to show the sceptics,

> > >

> > > -- What age did you start doing chelation ?

> > > -- How long did it take ?

> > > -- What where the problems before chelation ?

> > > -- What got much better / Worse after doing it ?

> > > -- What other therapies were you doing at the time ?

> > > -- How do you know chelation is what made the big difference ?

> > >

> > > Anyone in UK who would be happy to meet us to try and show

> us a

> > > success story ? Please write to me, We would be really

> happy to meet

> > > and travel to learn from your experience.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > > Ron

> > >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>

> > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release

> Date: 21/09/2008 10:10

> >

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release Date: 21/09/2008

10:10

>

September 22, 2008

Re: Re: Chelation - Everyone I talk to in the mainstream is against it.

I know, what I'm pointing out is that the rats that didn't have high levels of lead did badly. Sometimes people are advised to do chelation even if tests do not indicate any metal poisoning.

===>You may have a good point here. People are advised to do low/frequent dose chelation sometimes without evidence, but not the high/twice a day dosing. So yes and no.

The study showed that rats without lead poisoning were damaged by the chelation. I would have thought it un wise to claim the support of half a study. If you use the bit that shows that the rats with high lead levels did well, you cannot claim that the apparent damage to the rats without high lead levels (in the same experiment) is meaningless.Or rather, you can make that claim but I think that it may not bear much weightSallyNeno/Natasa wrote:>>> the rats that had high levels of lead did very well on that protocol>> nx>> >>> ----- Original Message -----> > *From:* Eva family <mailto:bobsallyevantlworld>> <mailto:bobsallyevantlworld> > > > >> > >> There is some research (on rats) which suggests that unnecessary > chelation lowers IQ. Natasa mentioned it a few days ago. It's> probably > the reason why the autism/chelation research proposed in the> States has > been abandoned.> >> ===>Yes, chelation where they gave the rats, huge doses of> DMSA , twice a day. Really designed to cause as much brain> damage as possible, that's the study and those are the> results. Dans! should really read those things, as should we> all.> >> > >> > > > > >>> Sally>> stephaniesirr wrote:> >> > Our NHS paediatrician was not against it, she just didn't> think it> > would help. Nobody mainstream has ever told us that> chelation per se> > is dangerous. the NHS chelates people with lead and mercury> poisoning> > using the same chemical chelators that Andy et al use,> although I> > think they use more IV and less regular-dose oral.> >> > It's the need to chelate that is contentious I think, not> chelation> > itself in many cases. In fact it's the less mainstream> people (people> > like Andy Cutler) who warn against chelation - in his case> he would> > warn you off it unless you were following the low dose, very> regular> > protocol. That's not how the NHS chelates I am pretty certain> >> > > > >> > > (Just a repost to what I wrote in the Autism-Mercury> group, Looking> > > for UK parents who walked this path)> > >> > > Our situation is complex I guess all the parents here go> through the a> > > similar path. I came to this group after a fellow parent> introduced me> > > to the Amalgam problem and I knew our 19 month old > was exposed> > > to mercury / Amalgam when she was 5 months old.> > >> > > Now the situation is like so:> > >> > > I have 7 different experts, doctors, academics / chemists> / Scientists> > > who are against doing chelation, Cutler protocol or other,> they say> > > it's dangerous, and no one really knows what it does to> the brain. How> > > the brain works etc. They basically say, no one has a> clue, you better> > > wait and continue the speech therapy / music therapy etc,> (which we> > > will do anyway chelation or not).> > >> > > And I have this forum, where I read some success stories and> > > encouraging words and people who put lots of time and> effort to help> > > each other, and tell me I should be doing chelation now !> > >> > > Our girl is moving forward and does make progress, very> slowly but she> > > does move ahead and learn new things. And I would only be> able to know> > > the outcome of my choices at the end of the road. So my> gut feeling> > > says 'do it'.> > >> > > I am not trying to get a %100 assurances, but I wish I had> some more> > > information on success / failure stories to show the sceptics,> > >> > > -- What age did you start doing chelation ?> > > -- How long did it take ?> > > -- What where the problems before chelation ?> > > -- What got much better / Worse after doing it ?> > > -- What other therapies were you doing at the time ?> > > -- How do you know chelation is what made the big difference ?> > >> > > Anyone in UK who would be happy to meet us to try and show> us a> > > success story ? Please write to me, We would be really> happy to meet> > > and travel to learn from your experience.> > >> > > Thanks> > >> > > Ron> > >> >> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------> >> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>> > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release> Date: 21/09/2008 10:10> >> >>>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------->>> No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release Date: 21/09/2008 10:10>>

September 22, 2008

----- Original Message -----

From: JULIE GRIFFITHS

Rats have differeent detox paths. I wonder at all if this study is useful. They use much less of sulphation (might be relevant as sulfur binds with arsenic, lead, mercury and cadmium) and more of another method (starts with 'g' and I can't remember the full name at the mo'.. ) If someone can remind me later, I'll upload the relevant stuff later next week..

===>You also might have a point here with the difference between people and rats being rats blood/brain/barrier is much thinner than is people's. You do have to take that into account when you interpret studies.

Sue Owens might be the best to weigh in on this.Eva family schrieb:>> I know, what I'm pointing out is that the rats that didn't have high> levels of lead did badly. Sometimes people are advised to do chelation> even if tests do not indicate any metal poisoning. The study showed that> rats without lead poisoning were damaged by the chelation. I would have> thought it un wise to claim the support of half a study. If you use the> bit that shows that the rats with high lead levels did well, you cannot> claim that the apparent damage to the rats without high lead levels (in> the same experiment) is meaningless.>> Or rather, you can make that claim but I think that it may not bear much> weight>> Sally>> Neno/Natasa wrote:> >> >> > the rats that had high levels of lead did very well on that protocol> >> > nx> >> >> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----> >> > *From:* Eva family <mailto:bobsallyevantlworld > <mailto:bobsallyeva%40ntlworld.com>>> > <mailto:bobsallyevantlworld <mailto:bobsallyeva%40ntlworld.com>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > There is some research (on rats) which suggests that unnecessary> > chelation lowers IQ. Natasa mentioned it a few days ago. It's> > probably> > the reason why the autism/chelation research proposed in the> > States has> > been abandoned.> >> >> > ===>Yes, chelation where they gave the rats, huge doses of> > DMSA , twice a day. Really designed to cause as much brain> > damage as possible, that's the study and those are the> > results. Dans! should really read those things, as should we> > all.> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Sally> >> > stephaniesirr wrote:> > >> > > Our NHS paediatrician was not against it, she just didn't> > think it> > > would help. Nobody mainstream has ever told us that> > chelation per se> > > is dangerous. the NHS chelates people with lead and mercury> > poisoning> > > using the same chemical chelators that Andy et al use,> > although I> > > think they use more IV and less regular-dose oral.> > >> > > It's the need to chelate that is contentious I think, not> > chelation> > > itself in many cases. In fact it's the less mainstream> > people (people> > > like Andy Cutler) who warn against chelation - in his case> > he would> > > warn you off it unless you were following the low dose, very> > regular> > > protocol. That's not how the NHS chelates I am pretty certain> > >> > > > > > >> > > > (Just a repost to what I wrote in the Autism-Mercury> > group, Looking> > > > for UK parents who walked this path)> > > >> > > > Our situation is complex I guess all the parents here go> > through the a> > > > similar path. I came to this group after a fellow parent> > introduced me> > > > to the Amalgam problem and I knew our 19 month old > > was exposed> > > > to mercury / Amalgam when she was 5 months old.> > > >> > > > Now the situation is like so:> > > >> > > > I have 7 different experts, doctors, academics / chemists> > / Scientists> > > > who are against doing chelation, Cutler protocol or other,> > they say> > > > it's dangerous, and no one really knows what it does to> > the brain. How> > > > the brain works etc. They basically say, no one has a> > clue, you better> > > > wait and continue the speech therapy / music therapy etc,> > (which we> > > > will do anyway chelation or not).> > > >> > > > And I have this forum, where I read some success stories and> > > > encouraging words and people who put lots of time and> > effort to help> > > > each other, and tell me I should be doing chelation now !> > > >> > > > Our girl is moving forward and does make progress, very> > slowly but she> > > > does move ahead and learn new things. And I would only be> > able to know> > > > the outcome of my choices at the end of the road. So my> > gut feeling> > > > says 'do it'.> > > >> > > > I am not trying to get a %100 assurances, but I wish I had> > some more> > > > information on success / failure stories to show the sceptics,> > > >> > > > -- What age did you start doing chelation ?> > > > -- How long did it take ?> > > > -- What where the problems before chelation ?> > > > -- What got much better / Worse after doing it ?> > > > -- What other therapies were you doing at the time ?> > > > -- How do you know chelation is what made the big difference ?> > > >> > > > Anyone in UK who would be happy to meet us to try and show> > us a> > > > success story ? Please write to me, We would be really> > happy to meet> > > > and travel to learn from your experience.> > > >> > > > Thanks> > > >> > > > Ron> > > >> > >> > >> > > ----------------------------------------------------------> > >> > >> > > No virus found in this incoming message.> > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> > <http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>>> > > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release> > Date: 21/09/2008 10:10> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------> >> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>> > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release Date: > 21/09/2008 10:10> >> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------->> No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release Date: 21/09/2008 10:10>

September 22, 2008

Conclusions. These are the first data, to our knowledge, to show that treatment with any chelating agent can alleviate cognitive deficits due to Pb exposure. These findings suggest that it may be possible to identify a succimer treatment protocol that improves cognitive outcomes in Pb-exposed children. However, they also suggest that succimer treatment should be strongly discouraged for children who do not have elevated tissue levels of Pb or other heavy metals.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed & pubmedid=17384765

September 22, 2008

That was my point actually, but wrote in rush...

I know, what I'm pointing out is that the rats that didn't have high

levels of lead did badly. Sometimes people are advised to do chelation

even if tests do not indicate any metal poisoning. The study showed that

rats without lead poisoning were damaged by the chelation. I would have

thought it un wise to claim the support of half a study. If you use the

bit that shows that the rats with high lead levels did well, you cannot

claim that the apparent damage to the rats without high lead levels (in

the same experiment) is meaningless.

Or rather, you can make that claim but I think that it may not bear much

weight

Sally

Neno/Natasa wrote:

>

> the rats that had high levels of lead did very well on that protocol

>

> nx

>

> ----- Original Message -----

>

> *From:* Eva family <mailto:bobsallyeva@... <mailto:bobsallyeva%40ntlworld.com> >

> <mailto:bobsallyeva@... <mailto:bobsallyeva%40ntlworld.com> >

>

> There is some research (on rats) which suggests that unnecessary

> chelation lowers IQ. Natasa mentioned it a few days ago. It's

> probably

> the reason why the autism/chelation research proposed in the

> States has

> been abandoned.

>

> ===>Yes, chelation where they gave the rats, huge doses of

> DMSA , twice a day. Really designed to cause as much brain

> damage as possible, that's the study and those are the

> results. Dans! should really read those things, as should we

> all.

>

> Sally

>

> stephaniesirr wrote:

> >

> > Our NHS paediatrician was not against it, she just didn't

> think it

> > would help. Nobody mainstream has ever told us that

> chelation per se

> > is dangerous. the NHS chelates people with lead and mercury

> poisoning

> > using the same chemical chelators that Andy et al use,

> although I

> > think they use more IV and less regular-dose oral.

> >

> > It's the need to chelate that is contentious I think, not

> chelation

> > itself in many cases. In fact it's the less mainstream

> people (people

> > like Andy Cutler) who warn against chelation - in his case

> he would

> > warn you off it unless you were following the low dose, very

> regular

> > protocol. That's not how the NHS chelates I am pretty certain

> >

> > >

> > > (Just a repost to what I wrote in the Autism-Mercury

> group, Looking

> > > for UK parents who walked this path)

> > >

> > > Our situation is complex I guess all the parents here go

> through the a

> > > similar path. I came to this group after a fellow parent

> introduced me

> > > to the Amalgam problem and I knew our 19 month old

> was exposed

> > > to mercury / Amalgam when she was 5 months old.

> > >

> > > Now the situation is like so:

> > >

> > > I have 7 different experts, doctors, academics / chemists

> / Scientists

> > > who are against doing chelation, Cutler protocol or other,

> they say

> > > it's dangerous, and no one really knows what it does to

> the brain. How

> > > the brain works etc. They basically say, no one has a

> clue, you better

> > > wait and continue the speech therapy / music therapy etc,

> (which we

> > > will do anyway chelation or not).

> > >

> > > And I have this forum, where I read some success stories and

> > > encouraging words and people who put lots of time and

> effort to help

> > > each other, and tell me I should be doing chelation now !

> > >

> > > Our girl is moving forward and does make progress, very

> slowly but she

> > > does move ahead and learn new things. And I would only be

> able to know

> > > the outcome of my choices at the end of the road. So my

> gut feeling

> > > says 'do it'.

> > >

> > > I am not trying to get a %100 assurances, but I wish I had

> some more

> > > information on success / failure stories to show the sceptics,

> > >

> > > -- What age did you start doing chelation ?

> > > -- How long did it take ?

> > > -- What where the problems before chelation ?

> > > -- What got much better / Worse after doing it ?

> > > -- What other therapies were you doing at the time ?

> > > -- How do you know chelation is what made the big difference ?

> > >

> > > Anyone in UK who would be happy to meet us to try and show

> us a

> > > success story ? Please write to me, We would be really

> happy to meet

> > > and travel to learn from your experience.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > >

> > > Ron

> > >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>

> > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release

> Date: 21/09/2008 10:10

> >

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release Date: 21/09/2008 10:10

>

September 22, 2008

Hi Ron

Just to say - we are unable to do chemical chelation with our son

because he freaks out at the sight of a needle.....and regular blood

tests are needed if doing chemical chelation.

You can do chelation using natural products - Micheal Lang of

Brainchild Nutritionals has a protocol on his site, for exapmle.

I'm sure its a lot weaker than chemical chelation but imho for those

of us who cant do chemical - its better than nothing!!

Zoe

>

> (Just a repost to what I wrote in the Autism-Mercury group, Looking

> for UK parents who walked this path)

>

> Our situation is complex I guess all the parents here go through

the a

> similar path. I came to this group after a fellow parent

introduced me

> to the Amalgam problem and I knew our 19 month old was

exposed

> to mercury / Amalgam when she was 5 months old.

>

> Now the situation is like so:

>

> I have 7 different experts, doctors, academics / chemists /

Scientists

> who are against doing chelation, Cutler protocol or other, they say

> it's dangerous, and no one really knows what it does to the brain.

How

> the brain works etc. They basically say, no one has a clue, you

better

> wait and continue the speech therapy / music therapy etc, (which we

> will do anyway chelation or not).

>

> And I have this forum, where I read some success stories and

> encouraging words and people who put lots of time and effort to

help

> each other, and tell me I should be doing chelation now !

>

> Our girl is moving forward and does make progress, very slowly but

she

> does move ahead and learn new things. And I would only be able to

know

> the outcome of my choices at the end of the road. So my gut feeling

> says 'do it'.

>

> I am not trying to get a %100 assurances, but I wish I had some

more

> information on success / failure stories to show the sceptics,

>

> -- What age did you start doing chelation ?

> -- How long did it take ?

> -- What where the problems before chelation ?

> -- What got much better / Worse after doing it ?

> -- What other therapies were you doing at the time ?

> -- How do you know chelation is what made the big difference ?

>

> Anyone in UK who would be happy to meet us to try and show us a

> success story ? Please write to me, We would be really happy to

meet

> and travel to learn from your experience.

>

> Thanks

>

> Ron

>

September 22, 2008

thanks Natasa. You are much better organised than me.

Sally

Neno/Natasa wrote:

>

> Conclusions. These are the first data, to our knowledge, to show that

> treatment with any chelating agent can alleviate cognitive deficits

> due to Pb exposure. These findings suggest that it may be possible to

> identify a succimer treatment protocol that improves cognitive

> outcomes in Pb-exposed children. However, they also suggest that

> *succimer treatment should be strongly discouraged for children who do

> not have elevated tissue levels of Pb or other heavy metals.

> *

>

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed & pubmedid=1738476\

5

>

<http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed & pubmedid=173847\

65>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release Date: 21/09/2008

10:10

>

September 22, 2008

The authors of this study are trying to make a connection between rats with no exposure to lead and Autistic children who do no longer show high lead serum levels.

Evidently they are not educated to the point where they know that lead only stays in the blood for so long and then if not excreted, goes into the brain and bone.

They gave the rats 50 mgs/kg, which for our J-Kate would be 1000 mgs twice a day. Based on her reaction to 10 mgs of DMSA every 4 hours, 1000 mgs x a day would have wiped her off the face of the map. Surprising the rats didn't die.

This in no way would compare to using the starting dose of 5 mgs per whole weight of child, for 5 or so rounds, which is the recommendation.

Re: Re: Chelation - Everyone I talk to in the mainstream is against it.

----- Original Message -----

From: Eva family

I know, what I'm pointing out is that the rats that didn't have high levels of lead did badly.

===>No, the rats with NO, NONE lead exposure did worse. So the moral of the study is if your child has NEVER been exposed to Lead, don't chelate them, who would?

You can't use this study to say that chelation is harmful to rats with low, moderate or high levels. You can use it to say chelation is harmful to rats who have NO exposure or body/brain stores of DMSA.

If you use the bit that shows that the rats with high lead levels did well

===>The rats with HIGH lead exposure did not do well, they improved on two measures, and there was no improvement on the rest of the measures of behavior or learning. The rats with MODERATE lead levels did the best upon treatment with DMSA.

, you cannot claim that the apparent damage to the rats without high lead levels (in the same experiment) is meaningless.

===>The MODERATE Lead exposed rats did the best of all of them.Neno/Natasa wrote:>>> the rats that had high levels of lead did very well on that protocol

====>Wrong, the rats that had the HIGH levels, did not improve but on one or two of the 7 or so tests. The rats with MODERATE levels, improved greatly, upon treatment with DMSA.

Btw, anecdotal evidence here, ours had NO Lead, none, just a ton of mercury and some bismuth. We used DMSA and she has done fabulously, again a beginning second grade student with ninth grade level of work.

>> nx>> >>> ----- Original Message -----> > *From:* Eva family <mailto:bobsallyevantlworld>> <mailto:bobsallyevantlworld> > > > >> > >> There is some research (on rats) which suggests that unnecessary > chelation lowers IQ. Natasa mentioned it a few days ago. It's> probably > the reason why the autism/chelation research proposed in the> States has > been abandoned.> >> ===>Yes, chelation where they gave the rats, huge doses of> DMSA , twice a day. Really designed to cause as much brain> damage as possible, that's the study and those are the> results. Dans! should really read those things, as should we> all.> >> > >> > > > > >>> Sally>> stephaniesirr wrote:> >> > Our NHS paediatrician was not against it, she just didn't> think it> > would help. Nobody mainstream has ever told us that> chelation per se> > is dangerous. the NHS chelates people with lead and mercury> poisoning> > using the same chemical chelators that Andy et al use,> although I> > think they use more IV and less regular-dose oral.> >> > It's the need to chelate that is contentious I think, not> chelation> > itself in many cases. In fact it's the less mainstream> people (people> > like Andy Cutler) who warn against chelation - in his case> he would> > warn you off it unless you were following the low dose, very> regular> > protocol. That's not how the NHS chelates I am pretty certain> >> > > > >> > > (Just a repost to what I wrote in the Autism-Mercury> group, Looking> > > for UK parents who walked this path)> > >> > > Our situation is complex I guess all the parents here go> through the a> > > similar path. I came to this group after a fellow parent> introduced me> > > to the Amalgam problem and I knew our 19 month old > was exposed> > > to mercury / Amalgam when she was 5 months old.> > >> > > Now the situation is like so:> > >> > > I have 7 different experts, doctors, academics / chemists> / Scientists> > > who are against doing chelation, Cutler protocol or other,> they say> > > it's dangerous, and no one really knows what it does to> the brain. How> > > the brain works etc. They basically say, no one has a> clue, you better> > > wait and continue the speech therapy / music therapy etc,> (which we> > > will do anyway chelation or not).> > >> > > And I have this forum, where I read some success stories and> > > encouraging words and people who put lots of time and> effort to help> > > each other, and tell me I should be doing chelation now !> > >> > > Our girl is moving forward and does make progress, very> slowly but she> > > does move ahead and learn new things. And I would only be> able to know> > > the outcome of my choices at the end of the road. So my> gut feeling> > > says 'do it'.> > >> > > I am not trying to get a %100 assurances, but I wish I had> some more> > > information on success / failure stories to show the sceptics,> > >> > > -- What age did you start doing chelation ?> > > -- How long did it take ?> > > -- What where the problems before chelation ?> > > -- What got much better / Worse after doing it ?> > > -- What other therapies were you doing at the time ?> > > -- How do you know chelation is what made the big difference ?> > >> > > Anyone in UK who would be happy to meet us to try and show> us a> > > success story ? Please write to me, We would be really> happy to meet> > > and travel to learn from your experience.> > >> > > Thanks> > >> > > Ron> > >> >> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------> >> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>> > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release> Date: 21/09/2008 10:10> >> >>>> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------->>> No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release Date: 21/09/2008 10:10>>

September 22, 2008

Lead, when ingested, only stays in the blood for a short time. Some

is excreted and some is stored. You can have a high level of stored

lead Iin bones and brain) but unless it's recently acquired, it won't

show up in the blood, except at a very much lower level.I have an old

article from the lancet about this, from its pre-electronic days.

I also have a paper somewhere which was a bout blood lead and body

burden in rats. Pregnant rats were given lead in their drinking water

and this continued for varying periods during lactation. The babies

had high lead levels in their blood but a few days after the lead was

taken out pf the mother's drinking water, the babies' blood level

dropped right down. However, when the baby rats were killed and a

post-mortem exam performed, it was found that their brains were full

of lead.

Margaret

> >>>> > > >

> >>>> > > > (Just a repost to what I wrote in the Autism-

Mercury

> >> > group, Looking

> >>>> > > > for UK parents who walked this path)

> >>>> > > >

> >>>> > > > Our situation is complex I guess all the

parents here go

> >> > through the a

> >>>> > > > similar path. I came to this group after a

fellow parent

> >> > introduced me

> >>>> > > > to the Amalgam problem and I knew our 19 month

old

> >> > was exposed

> >>>> > > > to mercury / Amalgam when she was 5 months old.

> >>>> > > >

> >>>> > > > Now the situation is like so:

> >>>> > > >

> >>>> > > > I have 7 different experts, doctors,

academics / chemists

> >> > / Scientists

> >>>> > > > who are against doing chelation, Cutler

protocol or other,

> >> > they say

> >>>> > > > it's dangerous, and no one really knows what it

does to

> >> > the brain. How

> >>>> > > > the brain works etc. They basically say, no one

has a

> >> > clue, you better

> >>>> > > > wait and continue the speech therapy / music

therapy etc,

> >> > (which we

> >>>> > > > will do anyway chelation or not).

> >>>> > > >

> >>>> > > > And I have this forum, where I read some

success stories and

> >>>> > > > encouraging words and people who put lots of

time and

> >> > effort to help

> >>>> > > > each other, and tell me I should be doing

chelation now !

> >>>> > > >

> >>>> > > > Our girl is moving forward and does make

progress, very

> >> > slowly but she

> >>>> > > > does move ahead and learn new things. And I

would only be

> >> > able to know

> >>>> > > > the outcome of my choices at the end of the

road. So my

> >> > gut feeling

> >>>> > > > says 'do it'.

> >>>> > > >

> >>>> > > > I am not trying to get a %100 assurances, but I

wish I had

> >> > some more

> >>>> > > > information on success / failure stories to

show the

> sceptics,

> >>>> > > >

> >>>> > > > -- What age did you start doing chelation ?

> >>>> > > > -- How long did it take ?

> >>>> > > > -- What where the problems before chelation ?

> >>>> > > > -- What got much better / Worse after doing it ?

> >>>> > > > -- What other therapies were you doing at the

time ?

> >>>> > > > -- How do you know chelation is what made the

big difference

> ?

> >>>> > > >

> >>>> > > > Anyone in UK who would be happy to meet us to

try and show

> >> > us a

> >>>> > > > success story ? Please write to me, We would be

really

> >> > happy to meet

> >>>> > > > and travel to learn from your experience.

> >>>> > > >

> >>>> > > > Thanks

> >>>> > > >

> >>>> > > > Ron

> >>>> > > >

> >>> > >

> >>> > > ---------------------------------------------------

-------

> >>> > >

> >>> > > No virus found in this incoming message.

> >>> > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

<http://www.avg.com>

> >>> > > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 -

Release

> >> > Date: 21/09/2008 10:10

> >>> > >

> >> >

> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> >> >

> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> >> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> >> > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release

Date: 21/09/2008

> >> 10:10

> >> >

> >

>

September 23, 2008

I know the body squirrels it away (and then mobilises it in pregnancy

) but I think there is some sort of equilibrium in the blood and so

there should be some in the blood all the time if it is in the bones.

The chelators can only be taking it from the blood and then allowing

more to come out of the major organs. So if there is really none in the

blood then maybe there is none.

I think what worries me about some of this is not taking No for an

answer. If there is no reliable accepted test for lead poisoning then

people will chelate without the assurance that chelation is necessary --

and perhaps do damage if it is not. Saying that there is no accepted

test to prove a negative may mean that what can be a dangerous

proceedure is carried out unnecessarily.

Sally

mcollins2001uk wrote:

>

> Sally

> I think it's very hard to be sure how much is there, because you

> can't do a brain biopsy. Other tests give some kind of indication

> only.

> Margaret

>

> >

> > I think the key point is " if the metals were there in the first

> place " .

> > The rats study showed benefits " if the metals were there in the

> first

> > place " . So be sure that they are there and then chelate taking into

> account

> >

> > *Sally*

> > >

> > > ----------------------------------------------------------

> ------

> > >

> > > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>

> > > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release Date:

> 21/09/2008 10:10

> > >

> >

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1685 - Release Date: 22/09/2008

16:08

>

September 23, 2008

So all we need to do is trick the body into thinking it is pregnant.

Hey Presto new chelator !

> > >

> > > I think the key point is " if the metals were there in the first

> > place " .

> > > The rats study showed benefits " if the metals were there in the

> > first

> > > place " . So be sure that they are there and then chelate taking

into

> > account

> > >

> > > *Sally*

> > > >

> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------

> > ------

> > > >

> > > > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>

> > > > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release

Date:

> > 21/09/2008 10:10

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------

------

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1685 - Release Date:

22/09/2008 16:08

> >

>

September 23, 2008

----- Original Message -----

From: Neno/Natasa

No, I meant study under discussion...

===>Ever since this thread has started I have thought back over the last 4 years I have been on the boards to see if I could remember any pattern of kids who had chelated for a long while and then lost skills. Because I care more about children than I do about this conversation, I would honestly report it, if I did notice, but there are no reports out there like that.

Mostly people chelate until there are no further issues, and then they don't. People are of course, allowed to leave their child Autistic, and many do.

If I thought like this, our beautiful 7 year old J-Kate would still be Autistic and not sitting in a typical classroom with all the other children, attending birthday parties, having sleepovers, going to Girl Scouts, learning how to horseback ride and participating in the school play.

If we all thought like this we would do NO interventions; certainly not any of the medications we use; antivirals, antifungals; supplements, etc. None of these things are tested on children and/or anyone and there are many negative side effects reported with antiviral drugs.

My main point is that you are ignoring the glaring differences between this study and real life situations. There are few, if any, children who have never been exposed to lead. There are few, if any, even crazy Dan! drs who would dose DMSA at these levels.

what I really meant was.... Imho whilst we can assume that everyone will have some level of toxicity, previous exposures etc, as sally said it is hard/impossible to know when a chelator stops being a chelator (i.e. Nothing left to chelate) and turns into damaging agent.for as long as there is no reliable tests indicators of tissue levels of toxins we can only rely on intuition really .... As parents that is ok, you know you child well, you observe, you take breaks between rounds, compare with others etc etc. this whole thread started as a criticism of decision to shelf the study of dmsa in autism – frankly I see where they are coming from. Not to say there wasn’t politics involved behind the scenes, but if I was amongst them I would not fight the decision to abandon the study.As researchers these people cannot just go out and assume that all kids are toxic and that dmsa will not be doing damage after a while, like it DID in rats. They may even believe in private that all kids are toxic and that they won’t encounter such problems, but there was no way they could ever justify to overlook this study and say ‘go for it anyway’. Has the attachment been stripped off?SallyNeno/Natasa wrote:>>> Why all the worry about chelation? >>>>> this study for example?>> >> * New Members> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Biomedical-Europe/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNHZnYmdqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzNzc3ODYzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MTEwNARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjIyMTcyNTE2>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Biomedical-Europe/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNHZnYmdqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzNzc3ODYzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MTEwNARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjIyMTcyNTE2>>> *>> *>>> * 10> *>> * New Photos> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Biomedical-Europe/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJnaHVtanJiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzNzc3ODYzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MTEwNARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjIyMTcyNTE2>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Biomedical-Europe/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJnaHVtanJiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzNzc3ODYzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MTEwNARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjIyMTcyNTE2>>> *>> Visit Your Group> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Biomedical-Europe;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcGRtdmZqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzNzc3ODYzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MTEwNARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEyMjIxNzI1MTY->> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Biomedical-Europe;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcGRtdmZqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzNzc3ODYzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MTEwNARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEyMjIxNzI1MTY->> > > > > Yahoo! Health> >> Asthma Triggers> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13rftgse6/M=493064.12016303.12582636.9706571/D=grphealth/S=1705061104:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1222179716/L=/B=2MYMLELaX9A-/J=1222172516713368/A=5191949/R=0/SIG=12teb63n5/*http://health.yahoo.com/asthma-overview/identifying-asthma-trigge>> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13rftgse6/M=493064.12016303.12582636.9706571/D=grphealth/S=1705061104:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1222179716/L=/B=2MYMLELaX9A-/J=1222172516713368/A=5191949/R=0/SIG=12teb63n5/*http://health.yahoo.com/asthma-overview/identifying-asthma-trigge>>> >> How you can> >> identify them.> > > > Meditation and> >> Lovingkindness> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13rmvikgd/M=493064.12016231.12582634.9706571/D=grphealth/S=1705061104:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1222179716/L=/B=2cYMLELaX9A-/J=1222172516713368/A=5191951/R=0/SIG=11iiaadso/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/giftoflovingkindness>> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13rmvikgd/M=493064.12016231.12582634.9706571/D=grphealth/S=1705061104:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1222179716/L=/B=2cYMLELaX9A-/J=1222172516713368/A=5191951/R=0/SIG=11iiaadso/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/giftoflovingkindness>>> >> A Yahoo! Group> >> to share and learn.> > > > Yahoo! Groups> >> Join a program> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13rr47f23/M=493064.12016238.12823558.8674578/D=grphealth/S=1705061104:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1222179716/L=/B=2sYMLELaX9A-/J=1222172516713368/A=5286675/R=0/SIG=11in3uvr5/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/planforabalancedlife>> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13rr47f23/M=493064.12016238.12823558.8674578/D=grphealth/S=1705061104:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1222179716/L=/B=2sYMLELaX9A-/J=1222172516713368/A=5286675/R=0/SIG=11in3uvr5/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/planforabalancedlife>>> >> to help you find> >> balance in your life.> > > > > .> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------->>> No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1685 - Release Date: 22/09/2008 16:08>>

September 23, 2008

I'm not ignoring any real life situations (if I did I would not be here). I'm just defending NIH decision to pull the study on the basis they did.

nx

----- Original Message -----

No, I meant study under discussion...

===>Ever since this thread has started I have thought back over the last 4 years I have been on the boards to see if I could remember any pattern of kids who had chelated for a long while and then lost skills. Because I care more about children than I do about this conversation, I would honestly report it, if I did notice, but there are no reports out there like that.

Mostly people chelate until there are no further issues, and then they don't. People are of course, allowed to leave their child Autistic, and many do.

If I thought like this, our beautiful 7 year old J-Kate would still be Autistic and not sitting in a typical classroom with all the other children, attending birthday parties, having sleepovers, going to Girl Scouts, learning how to horseback ride and participating in the school play.

If we all thought like this we would do NO interventions; certainly not any of the medications we use; antivirals, antifungals; supplements, etc. None of these things are tested on children and/or anyone and there are many negative side effects reported with antiviral drugs.

My main point is that you are ignoring the glaring differences between this study and real life situations. There are few, if any, children who have never been exposed to lead. There are few, if any, even crazy Dan! drs who would dose DMSA at these levels.

what I really meant was.... Imho whilst we can assume that everyone will have some level of toxicity, previous exposures etc, as sally said it is hard/impossible to know when a chelator stops being a chelator (i.e. Nothing left to chelate) and turns into damaging agent.

for as long as there is no reliable tests indicators of tissue levels of toxins we can only rely on intuition really .... As parents that is ok, you know you child well, you observe, you take breaks between rounds, compare with others etc etc.

this whole thread started as a criticism of decision to shelf the study of dmsa in autism – frankly I see where they are coming from. Not to say there wasn’t politics involved behind the scenes, but if I was amongst them I would not fight the decision to abandon the study.

As researchers these people cannot just go out and assume that all kids are toxic and that dmsa will not be doing damage after a while, like it DID in rats. They may even believe in private that all kids are toxic and that they won’t encounter such problems, but there was no way they could ever justify to overlook this study and say ‘go for it anyway’.

Has the attachment been stripped off?

Sally

Neno/Natasa wrote:

>

> Why all the worry about chelation?

>

> this study for example?

>

> * New Members

> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Biomedical-Europe/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNHZnYmdqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzNzc3ODYzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MTEwNARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjIyMTcyNTE2>

>

> *

>

> *

>

> * 10

> *

>

> * New Photos

> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Biomedical-Europe/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJnaHVtanJiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzNzc3ODYzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MTEwNARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjIyMTcyNTE2>

>

> *

>

> Visit Your Group

> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Biomedical-Europe;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcGRtdmZqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzNzc3ODYzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MTEwNARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEyMjIxNzI1MTY->

>

> Yahoo! Health

>

> Asthma Triggers

> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13rftgse6/M=493064.12016303.12582636.9706571/D=grphealth/S=1705061104:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1222179716/L=/B=2MYMLELaX9A-/J=1222172516713368/A=5191949/R=0/SIG=12teb63n5/*http://health.yahoo.com/asthma-overview/identifying-asthma-trigge>

>

> How you can

>

> identify them.

>

> Meditation and

>

> Lovingkindness

> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13rmvikgd/M=493064.12016231.12582634.9706571/D=grphealth/S=1705061104:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1222179716/L=/B=2cYMLELaX9A-/J=1222172516713368/A=5191951/R=0/SIG=11iiaadso/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/giftoflovingkindness>

>

> A Yahoo! Group

>

> to share and learn.

>

> Yahoo! Groups

>

> Join a program

> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13rr47f23/M=493064.12016238.12823558.8674578/D=grphealth/S=1705061104:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1222179716/L=/B=2sYMLELaX9A-/J=1222172516713368/A=5286675/R=0/SIG=11in3uvr5/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/planforabalancedlife>

>

> to help you find

>

> balance in your life.

>

> .

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1685 - Release Date: 22/09/2008 16:08

>

September 24, 2008

I for one am quite happy they canned this study. I don't think it

would have done any good for our community. However, I don't think

we can pretend that this was simply an ethical decision based on the

fear that harm would come to kids. Really, if that was the case,

American doctors wouldn't be prescribing Ritalin to kids like it was

candy and injecting them with mercury. They do these harmful things

because they believe good comes of it. If there was any belief that

good would come of removing lead from kids, the study would have gone

ahead, risks and all.

As far as blood levels go, they don't necessarily show lead, even if

lead is present. My son has been peeing lead, pooping lead,

excreting lead through his hair, but I stopped asking his ped to

blood test lead because it wouldn't show. Historically, my son

would have lead. I have had tons of exposure. It is a fact that if

you have lead, your kid will. Also a fact that the average human--

including kids--has 1000 times more lead in their bones at autopsy

than people did I believe 700 or so years ago (can't remember the

dates right now).

Finding a kid without lead these days--any kid, not just ASD--would

be like finding a needle in a haystack. Having said that though, the

levels of chelator used in this study would damage anyone, IMO. I've

used 50 mgs of DMSA on myself, every 4 hours, and I felt like

absolute shit. That level was too much for me, a perfectly

functioning 150 pound adult with lead problems.

Of course we have to be careful with every intervention. But I would

really, really hate to have people frightened off chelation by a

study that really doesn't tell us much at all, other than giving

anyone really high doses of any drug is bound to have some negative

consequences. Not much news in that.

Chelation is one of the few things that have been shown to be

curative. That needs to be kept uppermost in our minds, IMO.

Anita

-- In Autism-Biomedical-Europe , Eva family

wrote:

>

> I know the body squirrels it away (and then mobilises it in

pregnancy

> ) but I think there is some sort of equilibrium in the blood and so

> there should be some in the blood all the time if it is in the

bones.

> The chelators can only be taking it from the blood and then

allowing

> more to come out of the major organs. So if there is really none in

the

> blood then maybe there is none.

>

September 24, 2008

Well it seems that DMSA has lost a bit of his reputation as many report

increased stimming

and side effects. the cause would be that's it's interfering with the Krebs

cycle and as you

put it a chelator should not interfere with anything but just bind to those

metals and leave

asap. So this is for the negative....

on the other hand chelation along with the rest of biomed has clearly saved my

child's life

(EDTA and DMPS are used), so maybe it's just worth trying...we can still read

the scientific

proof in a couple of years, in the meantime your kid keeps growing.

Senta

> >> >

> >> > Why all the worry about chelation?

> >> >

> >> > this study for example?

> >> >

> >> > * New Members

> >> >

> >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Biomedical-

Europe/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJn

> >>

NHZnYmdqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzNzc3ODYzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MTEw

NARzZWMDd

> >> nRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjIyMTcyNTE2>

> >> >

> >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Biomedical-

Europe/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJn

> >>

NHZnYmdqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzNzc3ODYzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MTEw

NARzZWMDd

> >> nRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjIyMTcyNTE2>

> >> >

> >> > *

> >> >

> >> > *

> >> >

> >> > * 10

> >> > *

> >> >

> >> > * New Photos

> >> >

> >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Biomedical-

Europe/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJnaH

> >>

VtanJiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzNzc3ODYzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MTEwNARz

ZWMDdnR

> >> sBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjIyMTcyNTE2>

> >> >

> >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Biomedical-

Europe/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJnaH

> >>

VtanJiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzNzc3ODYzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MTEwNARz

ZWMDdnR

> >> sBHNsawN2cGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjIyMTcyNTE2>

> >> >

> >> > *

> >> >

> >> > Visit Your Group

> >> >

> >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Biomedical-

Europe;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcGRtdmZq

> >>

BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzNzc3ODYzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MTEwNARzZWMD

dnRsBHNsa

> >> wN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEyMjIxNzI1MTY->

> >> >

> >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Biomedical-

Europe;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcGRtdmZq

> >>

BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzNzc3ODYzBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MTEwNARzZWMD

dnRsBHNsa

> >> wN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEyMjIxNzI1MTY->

> >> >

> >> > Yahoo! Health

> >> >

> >> > Asthma Triggers

> >> >

> >>

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13rftgse6/M=493064.12016303.12582636.9706571/D=

g

> >> rphealth/S=1705061104:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1222179716/L=/B=2MYMLELaX9A-

/J=122217251

> >> 6713368/A=5191949/R=0/SIG=12teb63n5/*http://health.yahoo.com/asthma-

overview/

> >> identifying-asthma-trigge>

> >> >

> >>

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13rftgse6/M=493064.12016303.12582636.9706571/D=

g

> >> rphealth/S=1705061104:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1222179716/L=/B=2MYMLELaX9A-

/J=122217251

> >> 6713368/A=5191949/R=0/SIG=12teb63n5/*http://health.yahoo.com/asthma-

overview/

> >> identifying-asthma-trigge>

> >> >

> >> > How you can

> >> >

> >> > identify them.

> >> >

> >> > Meditation and

> >> >

> >> > Lovingkindness

> >> >

> >>

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13rmvikgd/M=493064.12016231.12582634.9706571/D

=g

> >> rphealth/S=1705061104:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1222179716/L=/B=2cYMLELaX9A-

/J=122217251

> >>

6713368/A=5191951/R=0/SIG=11iiaadso/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/giftofloving

> >> kindness>

> >> >

> >>

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13rmvikgd/M=493064.12016231.12582634.9706571/D

=g

> >> rphealth/S=1705061104:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1222179716/L=/B=2cYMLELaX9A-

/J=122217251

> >>

6713368/A=5191951/R=0/SIG=11iiaadso/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/giftofloving

> >> kindness>

> >> >

> >> > A Yahoo! Group

> >> >

> >> > to share and learn.

> >> >

> >> > Yahoo! Groups

> >> >

> >> > Join a program

> >> >

> >>

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13rr47f23/M=493064.12016238.12823558.8674578/D=

g

> >> rphealth/S=1705061104:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1222179716/L=/B=2sYMLELaX9A-

/J=122217251

> >>

6713368/A=5286675/R=0/SIG=11in3uvr5/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/planforabala

> >> ncedlife>

> >> >

> >>

<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13rr47f23/M=493064.12016238.12823558.8674578/D=

g

> >> rphealth/S=1705061104:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1222179716/L=/B=2sYMLELaX9A-

/J=122217251

> >>

6713368/A=5286675/R=0/SIG=11in3uvr5/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/planforabala

> >> ncedlife>

> >> >

> >> > to help you find

> >> >

> >> > balance in your life.

> >> >

> >> > .

> >> >

> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> >> >

> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> >> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> >> > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1685 - Release Date:

22/09/2008

> >> 16:08

> >> >

> >

>

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Re: Chelation - Everyone I talk to in the mainstream is against it.

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