....RE: OT Rapture...Re: Re:abortion, politics, b

[Guest guest]

Just curious… If words hurt, have you written to anyone

who has written harsh things about Palin and her religion? I would love to read

it, because she is getting beat up about this a lot more than Obama has, and it

would be nice to see comments objecting to that as well.

Do you realize how oppressive the comments that liberals make about

‘fundamentalists’ sound? How about all of the snide jokes about

Palin? Have you written any comments to censure those who say that Palin is

using her son with Ds as a political prop? I hope so. You are right…words

hurt, no matter what political party you belong to. ..but I don’t see

many people on the Left objecting to the way Palin has been abused.

KathyR

From:

DownSyndromeInfoExchange

[mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of

Iannone

Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 9:15 AM

To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange

Subject: Re:OT Rapture...Re: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] Re:abortion,

politics, b

Thanks ! I

don’t have time to write out an Obama-defending post so I’m glad

you took the time. It’s ironic b/c I’m finalizing my speech

before a middle school called “Words Can Hurt” (for DS awareness)

which is why I don’t have time to address how hurtful it is to turn

someone’s religion into a bad word. Of course it is my friend

Gamze’s religion I’m talking about not Obama’s.

Anti-christ? Christian nation? Do you even realize how oppressive

you sound? Are my friend Gamze and I not part of this nation because we

are not Christian? Or are we just OK to stay as long as we sit in the

back and stay quiet? Or do my husband & kids “count”

because they are Catholic but I’m just garbage? When I think of how

many people “get it” here about Down syndrome – inclusion,

respect, equality – but why is there such a problem transferring those

concepts to those of other faiths or no faith? Why would such an exclusionary

phrase as “Christian nation” be acceptable? Suppose I said, “Chromosomally

perfect nation”? Wouldn’t that phrase exclude our children,

even if they are in a minority? It would most certainly imply a

negativity towards those with an extra chromosome. I wish I could finish

these thoughts, but really I have to polish my speech telling middle-schoolers

to think about the impact their words have on those around them.

[Guest guest]

My sentiments exactly...

Just curious… If words hurt, have you written to anyone who has written harsh things about Palin and her religion? I would love to read it, because she is getting beat up about this a lot more than Obama has, and it would be nice to see comments objecting to that as well.

Do you realize how oppressive the comments that liberals make about 'fundamentalists' sound? How about all of the snide jokes about Palin? Have you written any comments to censure those who say that Palin is using her son with Ds as a political prop? I hope so. You are right…words hurt, no matter what political party you belong to. ..but I don't see many people on the Left objecting to the way Palin has been abused.

KathyR

From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of Iannone

Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 9:15 AMTo: DownSyndromeInfoExchange Subject: Re:OT Rapture...Re: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] Re:abortion, politics, b

Thanks ! I don't have time to write out an Obama-defending post so I'm glad you took the time. It's ironic b/c I'm finalizing my speech before a middle school called "Words Can Hurt" (for DS awareness) which is why I don't have time to address how hurtful it is to turn someone's religion into a bad word. Of course it is my friend Gamze's religion I'm talking about not Obama's. Anti-christ? Christian nation? Do you even realize how oppressive you sound? Are my friend Gamze and I not part of this nation because we are not Christian? Or are we just OK to stay as long as we sit in the back and stay quiet? Or do my husband & kids "count" because they are Catholic but I'm just garbage? When I think of how many people "get it" here about Down syndrome – inclusion, respect, equality – but why is there such a problem transferring those concepts to those of other faiths or no faith? Why would such an exclusionary phrase as "Christian nation" be acceptable? Suppose I said, "Chromosomally perfect nation"? Wouldn't that phrase exclude our children, even if they are in a minority? It would most certainly imply a negativity towards those with an extra chromosome. I wish I could finish these thoughts, but really I have to polish my speech telling middle-schoolers to think about the impact their words have on those around them.

[Guest guest]

Although I still cannot see how you can be pro-life and vote for Obama, I appreciate your post to Salon.com. It is very well written!

Shari

Yes, I've written MANY things defending SP, which is very difficult when I'm trying to stay away from the internet. I generally try to focus my energies on helping women with a prenatal diagnosis on the

DS pregnancy board. But of course there has been a TON of stuff from all over, and to be honest I've actually spent much more time defending SP than I have Obama despite the fact that he has my vote.

In defending SP the way I see it is I defend myself, as a woman, a mother of 4, a mother of a child with DS, a mom who received a prenatal diagnosis, a former working mom in a tough profession. I have defended her on all of these issues and along the way educated

some people about the best way to hold a baby with DS, why she would have been tested without a termination in mind, why she would have kept that private, how she can handle work and family, etc. I have not seen things attacking her religion (I mean on the boards I

frequent) but certainly I've seen other things and I try to focus on what I know (DS & the things I've said above) and educate. Honestly there are way too many posts for me to find them all (still not

finished my speech). As an example, at the bottom of this post is the the post I put on Salon.com (which I also posted on Pat Bauer's blog). That's my most " public " defense. All others are private on closed boards. I

do not go searching for controversy.Here is my comment from Salaon - I think September 5The ignorance of many doctors " We could ask, given that Palin had no doubts about seeing her

pregnancy through, why she bothered to take a genetic test. " And THIS is the question of a medical professional? I am horrified, but it certainly represents the attitudes of many medical professionals when it comes to prenatal testing.

Many women truly grappling with a decision to do invasive testing need to be aware of ALL of the pros and cons, not just the ones many doctors bring up. And if they would not terminate a pregnancy, they need to be emotionally prepared for the onslaught of termination

offers, comments, and sometimes intense pressure both internally and externally from family, friends, and medical professionals. Here is a list women who would not terminate can actually use:PRO:* settles the question

*better prenatal care (monthly growth scans; fetal echocardiogram; late-term non-stress tests; heightened sense of caution by docs); monitoring may pick up problems to be treated by bed rest, early delivery, or a change in the birth plan

*time to adjust, grieve now, happy when the baby is born (do not underestimate this)*time to learn (and there is a LOT to learn)*possibly rethink birthing plan & place of delivery ((hospital with

a NICU? Higher level hospital? near a children's hospital? induced delivery during the day before 40 weeks?)*prepare the family & friends (as much for them as for you so you can have their full support)

*better birth experience than if diagnosed at birth (Dr. Skotko's research)*make after-birth plans such as child-care, breastfeeding with DS in mind*check on quality of health insurance

CON:*risk of miscarriage (MUCH lower than thought in the past)* squeamishness over procedure itself* offers from doctors to terminate, possibly pressure (even if you assert your view ahead of time); possibly comments from friends &

family, possibly pressure* faced with possible termination decision (for many moms who are sure they won't terminate, this is not an issue; for others such thoughts take them by surprise, which can itself create feelings of

guilt and shame on top of the grief)*grief possibly complicated by not seeing the baby*possible emotional distance from pregnancy and thoughts of miscarriage*overwhelmed with info about potential medical issues, possibly out

of proportion to reality " Kids with special needs require and deserve intense therapies and attention to their needs. " This is a common over-simplistic generalization many women receive from medical professionals when

receiving a prenatal diagnosis.These children are INDIVIDUALS and as such their situations vary. As far as " intensive " therapies are concerned, for many this consists simply of PLAY THERAPY - something your child enjoys.

The " attention " may be the same level a typical child would receive, or more intensive attention. The simplistic over-generalization above in no way reflects the rainbow of experiences of parents with

children with Down syndrome, nor does it take into account the high levels of parental satisfaction and family stability shown in studies following families of a child with Down syndrome.Ms. Palin does not need your " admiration " for continuing her

pregnancy, nor do I and the many women I know who have had a prenatal diagnosis. Such admiration implies a burden greater than that taken on, and diminishes the many benefits in parenting one's child. What we as patients NEED from our doctors is support in a

decision to continue a pregnancy. The research, my personal experience with a leading obstetrical organization, and the personal stories of many of the women with whom I have spoken all lead me to the conclusion that doctors push terminations, either deliberately

or unintentionally, and are completely unaware of the cumulative, devastating emotional impact of repeated termination offers.Women need accurate information about the risks and benefits to testing that go beyond a simplistic " terminate or not " mentality.

Women facing a prenatal diagnosis of Down syndrome need accurate information, and doctors should have solid, accurate information, referrals to genetic and developmental experts, and parent groups. No parent should have to seek out referrals and parent groups on her

own. I have both experienced and heard many stories of mothers hearing termination information immediately after a diagnosis but having to struggle to get referrals, information, and contact information. Doctors often negatively over-simplify the experience

of the life of an individual with Down syndrome, are unaware of the progress this population has seen on so many levels in past decades, and are unaware of the current research on improving cognition for individuals with Down syndrome (see the DSRTF).

Regardless of a doctor's predispositions and prejudices, regardless of a woman's decision, women deserve accurate, balanced information, and non-judgmental counseling. If a woman (like me) tells her doctor

in advance she will not terminate a pregnancy, why do doctors feel they need to repeatedly bring it up? Why would a doctor NOT have available a list of resources, experts, parent support groups? I think a lot of that has to do with the opening sentence, along with

the high termination rates influencing the expectations of doctors. I also believe many more things are involved, including an idea in the minds of OBs that termination is within their area of practice and advice, while information about a child is another's area. While

that may be true, advances in prenatal testing have resulted in OBs being the gatekeepers of this information, and as such they have a responsibility to see that their patients are adequately informed and supported.

If a woman chooses termination, doctors need to be aware of the emotional impact of such a decision and have adequate information and support at the ready. Research reveals that many mothers who have had a termination for medical reasons experience symptoms of

post-traumatic stress, even years afterwards. As I remember that research, such symptoms were reduced if the mothers felt their decision was based on adequate information and not rushed. Mothers receiving a prenatal diagnosis, regardless of their decisions, are

benifitted by information, neutrality, and respect -- not assumptions, ignorance, or admiration.