Guest guest Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Diane, the opium poppy, called Papaver somniferum L. elite, contains 92% morphine, codeine, and thebaine. Morphine is made into heroin and also used as is, Thebain is made in to oxycodone, oxymorphone, and hydromorphone, which are the narcotic ingredient in oxycontin, percocet, opana,dilaudid, and vicodin and lortab. I can personally attest to how very very different these drugs are. Even two of the drugs from the same alkaloid are very different. The straw of the poppy is made in to an opoid agonist called naltrexone, and that is also used for pain as well. There are some which are more synthetic, and less natural, like methadone, but unless Terry has used all of these and found none of them to be of any use, then I know of nothing else on earth that can stop the pain signal as well. If it existed, Sharon and I would have tried it. We went to a pain doctor as a last resort. I started taking narcotics like the frog in the boiling water. I started with an ever so tiny dose, and told him I just was not interested in an around the clock medication. That changed, after the pain reacted to the small small dose. The pain in my liver and spleen increased until I could hardly breath, and I finally relented, and live fairly comfortable now. One thing I must stress is that these medicines take some getting used to. Sharon had a tough time at first, and cried at every meal for 6 months, because the drugs made her feel sick. She lost a lot of weight. Until my pain doctor finally found something that works for me, I was having nausea every single day, and hardly any pain relief, and a terrible " high " feeling that I now believe is what people will sell grandma's china for, but now I feel nothing at all except for pain when it's time for another pill. Just remember codeine and it's derivatives are not identical to morphine and it's derivatives, and also thebain and it's derivatives. These three alkaloids come from the same plant, but to me they are totally different as far as side effects, but they are extremely effective at controlling pain. Good luck. Please let us know how it works out. Our doctor had to try several drugs on Sharon until he found what worked. They by law had to witness each other flush the unused portion down the toilet. long life, old age, everything good-Apache prayer ________________________________ To: livercirrhosissupport Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 4:26:52 PM Subject: Re: Re: Watts Bobby, would they be able to offer something besides anything in the morphine family? Morphine produces halucinations in Terry. I'm definitely going to call the doctor tomorrow, if we make it through the night without going to the ER. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: " robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com " <robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com> To: Livercirrhosissuppo rt <livercirrhosissuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com> Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 4:35:06 PM Subject: Re: Re: Watts That being the case a small dose of a pure opoid would not be unreasonable at this point either.. He is hospice eligible, and you can bet your bottom dollar that by now hospice would be assressing his nausea, but even more aggresivly addressing his pain. For them, pain is a no no. Unfortunately these drugs have been so demonized that even I had a kinpshun fit about Ardis taking them when she was switched over to hospice status, but still in the nursing home. They did give her roxynol which is like liquid morphine and it took her pain away. I am so used to the medicine now that there isn't much in the way of drowsyness, but whatever side effects are far outweighed by being able to function a little better. I'm out andf about today, but with out medicine, I'd be in bed. Good luck. Love Bobby Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile Re: Watts how are you doing diane ?? > > > > It is with great sadness that I have to inform you that 's > > husband, , passed away earlier this evening. of > course, > > and her children, are broken hearted. Please pray for them that > the > > Lord will give them encouragement and strength to face the days > ahead. > > > > I expect to hear from her again tomorrow. As soon as I know more, > I > > will post again. > > > > In case I never get the chance to say it again, I am so thankful > for > > each of you and for the love and support I have found in this > group. I > > love you all and I pray for each of your needs daily. Thank you > for > > being a friend and for always being here when I need you. > > > > Love and hugs........ . > > Diane > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 I take a morphine drug ( MS contin) for my constant pain. I take 30mg twice a day. It works for my pain levels...I can function much better now, but we think it has taken a toll on my stomach....that and years of other pain killers- oxycontin,vicoden,percocet etc. When I had my EGD Friday, he found my stomach lining is inflamed with several red patches. He did a few biopsies. I still feel nauseated alot and have stomach pain.This has gone on for months...don't eat much because I'm afraid it will make my stomach hurt. It all boils down to a Catch 22....if I don't take the morphine the pain is terrible, but if I do take it, it's wrecking my stomach. I'm now on Protonox to try to calm my stomach down. I'd like to start feeling better soon! Love,Jill We don't remember days, we remember moments. Life is not measured by the breaths we take,but by the moments that take our breath away. Subject: Re: pain relief for Terry To: livercirrhosissupport Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:55 PM Diane, the opium poppy, called Papaver somniferum L. elite, contains 92% morphine, codeine, and thebaine. Morphine is made into heroin and also used as is, Thebain is made in to oxycodone, oxymorphone, and hydromorphone, which are the narcotic ingredient in oxycontin, percocet, opana,dilaudid, and vicodin and lortab. I can personally attest to how very very different these drugs are. Even two of the drugs from the same alkaloid are very different. The straw of the poppy is made in to an opoid agonist called naltrexone, and that is also used for pain as well. There are some which are more synthetic, and less natural, like methadone, but unless Terry has used all of these and found none of them to be of any use, then I know of nothing else on earth that can stop the pain signal as well. If it existed, Sharon and I would have tried it. We went to a pain doctor as a last resort. I started taking narcotics like the frog in the boiling water. I started with an ever so tiny dose, and told him I just was not interested in an around the clock medication. That changed, after the pain reacted to the small small dose. The pain in my liver and spleen increased until I could hardly breath, and I finally relented, and live fairly comfortable now. One thing I must stress is that these medicines take some getting used to. Sharon had a tough time at first, and cried at every meal for 6 months, because the drugs made her feel sick. She lost a lot of weight. Until my pain doctor finally found something that works for me, I was having nausea every single day, and hardly any pain relief, and a terrible " high " feeling that I now believe is what people will sell grandma's china for, but now I feel nothing at all except for pain when it's time for another pill. Just remember codeine and it's derivatives are not identical to morphine and it's derivatives, and also thebain and it's derivatives. These three alkaloids come from the same plant, but to me they are totally different as far as side effects, but they are extremely effective at controlling pain. Good luck. Please let us know how it works out. Our doctor had to try several drugs on Sharon until he found what worked. They by law had to witness each other flush the unused portion down the toilet. long life, old age, everything good-Apache prayer ____________ _________ _________ __ From: diane chandler <dianechandler@ att.net> To: livercirrhosissuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 4:26:52 PM Subject: Re: Re: Watts Bobby, would they be able to offer something besides anything in the morphine family? Morphine produces halucinations in Terry. I'm definitely going to call the doctor tomorrow, if we make it through the night without going to the ER. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: " robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com " <robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com> To: Livercirrhosissuppo rt <livercirrhosissupp o rtyahoogroups (DOT) com> Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 4:35:06 PM Subject: Re: Re: Watts That being the case a small dose of a pure opoid would not be unreasonable at this point either.. He is hospice eligible, and you can bet your bottom dollar that by now hospice would be assressing his nausea, but even more aggresivly addressing his pain. For them, pain is a no no. Unfortunately these drugs have been so demonized that even I had a kinpshun fit about Ardis taking them when she was switched over to hospice status, but still in the nursing home. They did give her roxynol which is like liquid morphine and it took her pain away. I am so used to the medicine now that there isn't much in the way of drowsyness, but whatever side effects are far outweighed by being able to function a little better. I'm out andf about today, but with out medicine, I'd be in bed. Good luck. Love Bobby Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile Re: Watts how are you doing diane ?? > > > > It is with great sadness that I have to inform you that 's > > husband, , passed away earlier this evening. of > course, > > and her children, are broken hearted. Please pray for them that > the > > Lord will give them encouragement and strength to face the days > ahead. > > > > I expect to hear from her again tomorrow. As soon as I know more, > I > > will post again. > > > > In case I never get the chance to say it again, I am so thankful > for > > each of you and for the love and support I have found in this > group. I > > love you all and I pray for each of your needs daily. Thank you > for > > being a friend and for always being here when I need you. > > > > Love and hugs........ . > > Diane > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Bobby, thank you so much for all the information. I am so uneducated about pain control. It has never been a problem for Terry until now. He is having such terrible pain in his back that it is causing him to have trouble getting up and down and even walking. I so much appreciate you for sharing with me. Hugs........... Diane ________________________________ To: livercirrhosissupport Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 8:55:00 PM Subject: Re: pain relief for Terry Diane, the opium poppy, called Papaver somniferum L. elite, contains 92% morphine, codeine, and thebaine. Morphine is made into heroin and also used as is, Thebain is made in to oxycodone, oxymorphone, and hydromorphone, which are the narcotic ingredient in oxycontin, percocet, opana,dilaudid, and vicodin and lortab. I can personally attest to how very very different these drugs are. Even two of the drugs from the same alkaloid are very different. The straw of the poppy is made in to an opoid agonist called naltrexone, and that is also used for pain as well. There are some which are more synthetic, and less natural, like methadone, but unless Terry has used all of these and found none of them to be of any use, then I know of nothing else on earth that can stop the pain signal as well. If it existed, Sharon and I would have tried it. We went to a pain doctor as a last resort. I started taking narcotics like the frog in the boiling water. I started with an ever so tiny dose, and told him I just was not interested in an around the clock medication. That changed, after the pain reacted to the small small dose. The pain in my liver and spleen increased until I could hardly breath, and I finally relented, and live fairly comfortable now. One thing I must stress is that these medicines take some getting used to. Sharon had a tough time at first, and cried at every meal for 6 months, because the drugs made her feel sick. She lost a lot of weight. Until my pain doctor finally found something that works for me, I was having nausea every single day, and hardly any pain relief, and a terrible " high " feeling that I now believe is what people will sell grandma's china for, but now I feel nothing at all except for pain when it's time for another pill. Just remember codeine and it's derivatives are not identical to morphine and it's derivatives, and also thebain and it's derivatives. These three alkaloids come from the same plant, but to me they are totally different as far as side effects, but they are extremely effective at controlling pain. Good luck. Please let us know how it works out. Our doctor had to try several drugs on Sharon until he found what worked. They by law had to witness each other flush the unused portion down the toilet. long life, old age, everything good-Apache prayer ____________ _________ _________ __ From: diane chandler <dianechandler@ att.net> To: livercirrhosissuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 4:26:52 PM Subject: Re: Re: Watts Bobby, would they be able to offer something besides anything in the morphine family? Morphine produces halucinations in Terry. I'm definitely going to call the doctor tomorrow, if we make it through the night without going to the ER. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: " robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com " <robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com> To: Livercirrhosissuppo rt <livercirrhosissupp o rtyahoogroups (DOT) com> Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 4:35:06 PM Subject: Re: Re: Watts That being the case a small dose of a pure opoid would not be unreasonable at this point either.. He is hospice eligible, and you can bet your bottom dollar that by now hospice would be assressing his nausea, but even more aggresivly addressing his pain. For them, pain is a no no. Unfortunately these drugs have been so demonized that even I had a kinpshun fit about Ardis taking them when she was switched over to hospice status, but still in the nursing home. They did give her roxynol which is like liquid morphine and it took her pain away. I am so used to the medicine now that there isn't much in the way of drowsyness, but whatever side effects are far outweighed by being able to function a little better. I'm out andf about today, but with out medicine, I'd be in bed. Good luck. Love Bobby Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile Re: Watts how are you doing diane ?? > > > > It is with great sadness that I have to inform you that 's > > husband, , passed away earlier this evening. of > course, > > and her children, are broken hearted. Please pray for them that > the > > Lord will give them encouragement and strength to face the days > ahead. > > > > I expect to hear from her again tomorrow. As soon as I know more, > I > > will post again. > > > > In case I never get the chance to say it again, I am so thankful > for > > each of you and for the love and support I have found in this > group. I > > love you all and I pray for each of your needs daily. Thank you > for > > being a friend and for always being here when I need you. > > > > Love and hugs........ . > > Diane > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Jill, I'm glad they found out what's going on with your tummy. I'm glad it hadn't turned into ulcers yet. Hopefully the Protonix will fix it up. I was wondering, can they deliver your pain meds through a transdermal patch? I don't remember what the medication was, but I used to take a certain type that highly irritated my stomach and they gave me the patches. They worked great and no tummy upset! It was a win-win for me. Just a thought. ________________________________ To: livercirrhosissupport Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 9:05:45 PM Subject: Re: pain relief for Terry I take a morphine drug ( MS contin) for my constant pain. I take 30mg twice a day. It works for my pain levels...I can function much better now, but we think it has taken a toll on my stomach....that and years of other pain killers- oxycontin,vicoden, percocet etc. When I had my EGD Friday, he found my stomach lining is inflamed with several red patches. He did a few biopsies. I still feel nauseated alot and have stomach pain.This has gone on for months...don' t eat much because I'm afraid it will make my stomach hurt. It all boils down to a Catch 22....if I don't take the morphine the pain is terrible, but if I do take it, it's wrecking my stomach. I'm now on Protonox to try to calm my stomach down. I'd like to start feeling better soon! Love,Jill We don't remember days, we remember moments. Life is not measured by the breaths we take,but by the moments that take our breath away. From: Bob Aragon <robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: pain relief for Terry To: livercirrhosissuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:55 PM Diane, the opium poppy, called Papaver somniferum L. elite, contains 92% morphine, codeine, and thebaine. Morphine is made into heroin and also used as is, Thebain is made in to oxycodone, oxymorphone, and hydromorphone, which are the narcotic ingredient in oxycontin, percocet, opana,dilaudid, and vicodin and lortab. I can personally attest to how very very different these drugs are. Even two of the drugs from the same alkaloid are very different. The straw of the poppy is made in to an opoid agonist called naltrexone, and that is also used for pain as well. There are some which are more synthetic, and less natural, like methadone, but unless Terry has used all of these and found none of them to be of any use, then I know of nothing else on earth that can stop the pain signal as well. If it existed, Sharon and I would have tried it. We went to a pain doctor as a last resort. I started taking narcotics like the frog in the boiling water. I started with an ever so tiny dose, and told him I just was not interested in an around the clock medication. That changed, after the pain reacted to the small small dose. The pain in my liver and spleen increased until I could hardly breath, and I finally relented, and live fairly comfortable now. One thing I must stress is that these medicines take some getting used to. Sharon had a tough time at first, and cried at every meal for 6 months, because the drugs made her feel sick. She lost a lot of weight. Until my pain doctor finally found something that works for me, I was having nausea every single day, and hardly any pain relief, and a terrible " high " feeling that I now believe is what people will sell grandma's china for, but now I feel nothing at all except for pain when it's time for another pill. Just remember codeine and it's derivatives are not identical to morphine and it's derivatives, and also thebain and it's derivatives. These three alkaloids come from the same plant, but to me they are totally different as far as side effects, but they are extremely effective at controlling pain. Good luck. Please let us know how it works out. Our doctor had to try several drugs on Sharon until he found what worked. They by law had to witness each other flush the unused portion down the toilet. long life, old age, everything good-Apache prayer ____________ _________ _________ __ From: diane chandler <dianechandler@ att.net> To: livercirrhosissuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 4:26:52 PM Subject: Re: Re: Watts Bobby, would they be able to offer something besides anything in the morphine family? Morphine produces halucinations in Terry. I'm definitely going to call the doctor tomorrow, if we make it through the night without going to the ER. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: " robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com " <robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com> To: Livercirrhosissuppo rt <livercirrhosissupp o rtyahoogroups (DOT) com> Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 4:35:06 PM Subject: Re: Re: Watts That being the case a small dose of a pure opoid would not be unreasonable at this point either.. He is hospice eligible, and you can bet your bottom dollar that by now hospice would be assressing his nausea, but even more aggresivly addressing his pain. For them, pain is a no no. Unfortunately these drugs have been so demonized that even I had a kinpshun fit about Ardis taking them when she was switched over to hospice status, but still in the nursing home. They did give her roxynol which is like liquid morphine and it took her pain away. I am so used to the medicine now that there isn't much in the way of drowsyness, but whatever side effects are far outweighed by being able to function a little better. I'm out andf about today, but with out medicine, I'd be in bed. Good luck. Love Bobby Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile Re: Watts how are you doing diane ?? > > > > It is with great sadness that I have to inform you that 's > > husband, , passed away earlier this evening. of > course, > > and her children, are broken hearted. Please pray for them that > the > > Lord will give them encouragement and strength to face the days > ahead. > > > > I expect to hear from her again tomorrow. As soon as I know more, > I > > will post again. > > > > In case I never get the chance to say it again, I am so thankful > for > > each of you and for the love and support I have found in this > group. I > > love you all and I pray for each of your needs daily. Thank you > for > > being a friend and for always being here when I need you. > > > > Love and hugs........ . > > Diane > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Jill, I hope the new meds calm your tummy and you are able to eat and take the necessary pai meds! Pamela From: Bob Aragon <robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: pain relief for Terry To: livercirrhosissuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:55 PM Diane, the opium poppy, called Papaver somniferum L. elite, contains 92% morphine, codeine, and thebaine. Morphine is made into heroin and also used as is, Thebain is made in to oxycodone, oxymorphone, and hydromorphone, which are the narcotic ingredient in oxycontin, percocet, opana,dilaudid, and vicodin and lortab. I can personally attest to how very very different these drugs are. Even two of the drugs from the same alkaloid are very different. The straw of the poppy is made in to an opoid agonist called naltrexone, and that is also used for pain as well. There are some which are more synthetic, and less natural, like methadone, but unless Terry has used all of these and found none of them to be of any use, then I know of nothing else on earth that can stop the pain signal as well. If it existed, Sharon and I would have tried it. We went to a pain doctor as a last resort. I started taking narcotics like the frog in the boiling water. I started with an ever so tiny dose, and told him I just was not interested in an around the clock medication. That changed, after the pain reacted to the small small dose. The pain in my liver and spleen increased until I could hardly breath, and I finally relented, and live fairly comfortable now. One thing I must stress is that these medicines take some getting used to. Sharon had a tough time at first, and cried at every meal for 6 months, because the drugs made her feel sick. She lost a lot of weight. Until my pain doctor finally found something that works for me, I was having nausea every single day, and hardly any pain relief, and a terrible " high " feeling that I now believe is what people will sell grandma's china for, but now I feel nothing at all except for pain when it's time for another pill. Just remember codeine and it's derivatives are not identical to morphine and it's derivatives, and also thebain and it's derivatives. These three alkaloids come from the same plant, but to me they are totally different as far as side effects, but they are extremely effective at controlling pain. Good luck. Please let us know how it works out. Our doctor had to try several drugs on Sharon until he found what worked.. They by law had to witness each other flush the unused portion down the toilet. long life, old age, everything good-Apache prayer ____________ _________ _________ __ From: diane chandler <dianechandler@ att.net> To: livercirrhosissuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 4:26:52 PM Subject: Re: Re: Watts Bobby, would they be able to offer something besides anything in the morphine family? Morphine produces halucinations in Terry. I'm definitely going to call the doctor tomorrow, if we make it through the night without going to the ER. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: " robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com " <robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com> To: Livercirrhosissuppo rt <livercirrhosissupp o rtyahoogroups (DOT) com> Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 4:35:06 PM Subject: Re: Re: Watts That being the case a small dose of a pure opoid would not be unreasonable at this point either.. He is hospice eligible, and you can bet your bottom dollar that by now hospice would be assressing his nausea, but even more aggresivly addressing his pain. For them, pain is a no no. Unfortunately these drugs have been so demonized that even I had a kinpshun fit about Ardis taking them when she was switched over to hospice status, but still in the nursing home. They did give her roxynol which is like liquid morphine and it took her pain away. I am so used to the medicine now that there isn't much in the way of drowsyness, but whatever side effects are far outweighed by being able to function a little better. I'm out andf about today, but with out medicine, I'd be in bed. Good luck. Love Bobby Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile Re: Watts how are you doing diane ?? > > > > It is with great sadness that I have to inform you that 's > > husband, , passed away earlier this evening. of > course, > > and her children, are broken hearted. Please pray for them that > the > > Lord will give them encouragement and strength to face the days > ahead. > > > > I expect to hear from her again tomorrow. As soon as I know more, > I > > will post again. > > > > In case I never get the chance to say it again, I am so thankful > for > > each of you and for the love and support I have found in this > group. I > > love you all and I pray for each of your needs daily. Thank you > for > > being a friend and for always being here when I need you. > > > > Love and hugs........ . > > Diane > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Oh that would be great! I'll ask. Love,Jill We don't remember days, we remember moments. Life is not measured by the breaths we take,but by the moments that take our breath away. From: Bob Aragon <robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: pain relief for Terry To: livercirrhosissuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:55 PM Diane, the opium poppy, called Papaver somniferum L. elite, contains 92% morphine, codeine, and thebaine. Morphine is made into heroin and also used as is, Thebain is made in to oxycodone, oxymorphone, and hydromorphone, which are the narcotic ingredient in oxycontin, percocet, opana,dilaudid, and vicodin and lortab. I can personally attest to how very very different these drugs are. Even two of the drugs from the same alkaloid are very different. The straw of the poppy is made in to an opoid agonist called naltrexone, and that is also used for pain as well. There are some which are more synthetic, and less natural, like methadone, but unless Terry has used all of these and found none of them to be of any use, then I know of nothing else on earth that can stop the pain signal as well. If it existed, Sharon and I would have tried it. We went to a pain doctor as a last resort. I started taking narcotics like the frog in the boiling water. I started with an ever so tiny dose, and told him I just was not interested in an around the clock medication. That changed, after the pain reacted to the small small dose. The pain in my liver and spleen increased until I could hardly breath, and I finally relented, and live fairly comfortable now. One thing I must stress is that these medicines take some getting used to. Sharon had a tough time at first, and cried at every meal for 6 months, because the drugs made her feel sick. She lost a lot of weight. Until my pain doctor finally found something that works for me, I was having nausea every single day, and hardly any pain relief, and a terrible " high " feeling that I now believe is what people will sell grandma's china for, but now I feel nothing at all except for pain when it's time for another pill. Just remember codeine and it's derivatives are not identical to morphine and it's derivatives, and also thebain and it's derivatives. These three alkaloids come from the same plant, but to me they are totally different as far as side effects, but they are extremely effective at controlling pain. Good luck. Please let us know how it works out. Our doctor had to try several drugs on Sharon until he found what worked. They by law had to witness each other flush the unused portion down the toilet. long life, old age, everything good-Apache prayer ____________ _________ _________ __ From: diane chandler <dianechandler@ att.net> To: livercirrhosissuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 4:26:52 PM Subject: Re: Re: Watts Bobby, would they be able to offer something besides anything in the morphine family? Morphine produces halucinations in Terry. I'm definitely going to call the doctor tomorrow, if we make it through the night without going to the ER. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: " robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com " <robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com> To: Livercirrhosissuppo rt <livercirrhosissupp o rtyahoogroups (DOT) com> Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 4:35:06 PM Subject: Re: Re: Watts That being the case a small dose of a pure opoid would not be unreasonable at this point either.. He is hospice eligible, and you can bet your bottom dollar that by now hospice would be assressing his nausea, but even more aggresivly addressing his pain. For them, pain is a no no. Unfortunately these drugs have been so demonized that even I had a kinpshun fit about Ardis taking them when she was switched over to hospice status, but still in the nursing home. They did give her roxynol which is like liquid morphine and it took her pain away. I am so used to the medicine now that there isn't much in the way of drowsyness, but whatever side effects are far outweighed by being able to function a little better. I'm out andf about today, but with out medicine, I'd be in bed. Good luck. Love Bobby Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile Re: Watts how are you doing diane ?? > > > > It is with great sadness that I have to inform you that 's > > husband, , passed away earlier this evening. of > course, > > and her children, are broken hearted. Please pray for them that > the > > Lord will give them encouragement and strength to face the days > ahead. > > > > I expect to hear from her again tomorrow. As soon as I know more, > I > > will post again. > > > > In case I never get the chance to say it again, I am so thankful > for > > each of you and for the love and support I have found in this > group. I > > love you all and I pray for each of your needs daily. Thank you > for > > being a friend and for always being here when I need you. > > > > Love and hugs........ . > > Diane > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Keep in mind Jill that certain narcotic pain relievers have destructive ingredients, but some that you mention do not. Vicodin and percocet both have the toxic drug acetaminophen, the active ingredient in Tylenol, while MS contin is a mostly pure, natural substance. The little balls in the MS Contin have additives that slow the rate of absorption, but thats about it. The studies I read about how long term use at high rates of intake (like that of a heroin user) show that the opioids do have a toxic effect after a very long time and at huge amounts, but at the normal amount such as in a prescription, they do not. I would suspect something else in causing the stomach inflamation, is what I am saying. I only say this because even though we are all different in how we react to things, we have asked the doctor and tried to learn as much as possible for Sharon's sake, because she will be on these then rest of her life. have they ruled out H-pylori? hope fully he will find out. Love, Bobby long life, old age, everything good-Apache prayer ________________________________ To: livercirrhosissupport Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 8:05:45 PM Subject: Re: pain relief for Terry I take a morphine drug ( MS contin) for my constant pain. I take 30mg twice a day. It works for my pain levels...I can function much better now, but we think it has taken a toll on my stomach....that and years of other pain killers- oxycontin,vicoden, percocet etc. When I had my EGD Friday, he found my stomach lining is inflamed with several red patches. He did a few biopsies. I still feel nauseated alot and have stomach pain.This has gone on for months...don' t eat much because I'm afraid it will make my stomach hurt. It all boils down to a Catch 22....if I don't take the morphine the pain is terrible, but if I do take it, it's wrecking my stomach. I'm now on Protonox to try to calm my stomach down. I'd like to start feeling better soon! Love,Jill We don't remember days, we remember moments. Life is not measured by the breaths we take,but by the moments that take our breath away. From: Bob Aragon <robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: pain relief for Terry To: livercirrhosissuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:55 PM Diane, the opium poppy, called Papaver somniferum L. elite, contains 92% morphine, codeine, and thebaine. Morphine is made into heroin and also used as is, Thebain is made in to oxycodone, oxymorphone, and hydromorphone, which are the narcotic ingredient in oxycontin, percocet, opana,dilaudid, and vicodin and lortab. I can personally attest to how very very different these drugs are. Even two of the drugs from the same alkaloid are very different. The straw of the poppy is made in to an opoid agonist called naltrexone, and that is also used for pain as well. There are some which are more synthetic, and less natural, like methadone, but unless Terry has used all of these and found none of them to be of any use, then I know of nothing else on earth that can stop the pain signal as well. If it existed, Sharon and I would have tried it. We went to a pain doctor as a last resort. I started taking narcotics like the frog in the boiling water. I started with an ever so tiny dose, and told him I just was not interested in an around the clock medication. That changed, after the pain reacted to the small small dose. The pain in my liver and spleen increased until I could hardly breath, and I finally relented, and live fairly comfortable now. One thing I must stress is that these medicines take some getting used to. Sharon had a tough time at first, and cried at every meal for 6 months, because the drugs made her feel sick. She lost a lot of weight. Until my pain doctor finally found something that works for me, I was having nausea every single day, and hardly any pain relief, and a terrible " high " feeling that I now believe is what people will sell grandma's china for, but now I feel nothing at all except for pain when it's time for another pill. Just remember codeine and it's derivatives are not identical to morphine and it's derivatives, and also thebain and it's derivatives. These three alkaloids come from the same plant, but to me they are totally different as far as side effects, but they are extremely effective at controlling pain. Good luck. Please let us know how it works out. Our doctor had to try several drugs on Sharon until he found what worked. They by law had to witness each other flush the unused portion down the toilet. long life, old age, everything good-Apache prayer ____________ _________ _________ __ From: diane chandler <dianechandler@ att.net> To: livercirrhosissuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 4:26:52 PM Subject: Re: Re: Watts Bobby, would they be able to offer something besides anything in the morphine family? Morphine produces halucinations in Terry. I'm definitely going to call the doctor tomorrow, if we make it through the night without going to the ER. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: " robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com " <robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com> To: Livercirrhosissuppo rt <livercirrhosissupp o rtyahoogroups (DOT) com> Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 4:35:06 PM Subject: Re: Re: Watts That being the case a small dose of a pure opoid would not be unreasonable at this point either.. He is hospice eligible, and you can bet your bottom dollar that by now hospice would be assressing his nausea, but even more aggresivly addressing his pain. For them, pain is a no no. Unfortunately these drugs have been so demonized that even I had a kinpshun fit about Ardis taking them when she was switched over to hospice status, but still in the nursing home. They did give her roxynol which is like liquid morphine and it took her pain away. I am so used to the medicine now that there isn't much in the way of drowsyness, but whatever side effects are far outweighed by being able to function a little better. I'm out andf about today, but with out medicine, I'd be in bed. Good luck. Love Bobby Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile Re: Watts how are you doing diane ?? > > > > It is with great sadness that I have to inform you that 's > > husband, , passed away earlier this evening. of > course, > > and her children, are broken hearted. Please pray for them that > the > > Lord will give them encouragement and strength to face the days > ahead. > > > > I expect to hear from her again tomorrow. As soon as I know more, > I > > will post again. > > > > In case I never get the chance to say it again, I am so thankful > for > > each of you and for the love and support I have found in this > group. I > > love you all and I pray for each of your needs daily. Thank you > for > > being a friend and for always being here when I need you. > > > > Love and hugs........ . > > Diane > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Yeah! Thats what I couldnt remember. There are several ways to deliver pain medication. Patches, lollipops, suppositories, internal pumps, sub lingual, and mucosal. Sharon was given a sample of fentynyl which melts between your cheek and gum. Talk to your doctor, and if you don't have a specialist who can prescribe these, you might want to find one. Love, B long life, old age, everything good-Apache prayer ________________________________ To: livercirrhosissupport Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 10:45:46 PM Subject: Re: pain relief for Terry Jill, I'm glad they found out what's going on with your tummy. I'm glad it hadn't turned into ulcers yet. Hopefully the Protonix will fix it up. I was wondering, can they deliver your pain meds through a transdermal patch? I don't remember what the medication was, but I used to take a certain type that highly irritated my stomach and they gave me the patches. They worked great and no tummy upset! It was a win-win for me. Just a thought. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Jill <jillkstewart@ yahoo.com> To: livercirrhosissuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 9:05:45 PM Subject: Re: pain relief for Terry I take a morphine drug ( MS contin) for my constant pain. I take 30mg twice a day. It works for my pain levels...I can function much better now, but we think it has taken a toll on my stomach....that and years of other pain killers- oxycontin,vicoden, percocet etc. When I had my EGD Friday, he found my stomach lining is inflamed with several red patches. He did a few biopsies. I still feel nauseated alot and have stomach pain.This has gone on for months...don' t eat much because I'm afraid it will make my stomach hurt. It all boils down to a Catch 22....if I don't take the morphine the pain is terrible, but if I do take it, it's wrecking my stomach. I'm now on Protonox to try to calm my stomach down. I'd like to start feeling better soon! Love,Jill We don't remember days, we remember moments. Life is not measured by the breaths we take,but by the moments that take our breath away. From: Bob Aragon <robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: pain relief for Terry To: livercirrhosissuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:55 PM Diane, the opium poppy, called Papaver somniferum L. elite, contains 92% morphine, codeine, and thebaine. Morphine is made into heroin and also used as is, Thebain is made in to oxycodone, oxymorphone, and hydromorphone, which are the narcotic ingredient in oxycontin, percocet, opana,dilaudid, and vicodin and lortab. I can personally attest to how very very different these drugs are. Even two of the drugs from the same alkaloid are very different. The straw of the poppy is made in to an opoid agonist called naltrexone, and that is also used for pain as well. There are some which are more synthetic, and less natural, like methadone, but unless Terry has used all of these and found none of them to be of any use, then I know of nothing else on earth that can stop the pain signal as well. If it existed, Sharon and I would have tried it. We went to a pain doctor as a last resort. I started taking narcotics like the frog in the boiling water. I started with an ever so tiny dose, and told him I just was not interested in an around the clock medication. That changed, after the pain reacted to the small small dose. The pain in my liver and spleen increased until I could hardly breath, and I finally relented, and live fairly comfortable now. One thing I must stress is that these medicines take some getting used to. Sharon had a tough time at first, and cried at every meal for 6 months, because the drugs made her feel sick. She lost a lot of weight. Until my pain doctor finally found something that works for me, I was having nausea every single day, and hardly any pain relief, and a terrible " high " feeling that I now believe is what people will sell grandma's china for, but now I feel nothing at all except for pain when it's time for another pill. Just remember codeine and it's derivatives are not identical to morphine and it's derivatives, and also thebain and it's derivatives. These three alkaloids come from the same plant, but to me they are totally different as far as side effects, but they are extremely effective at controlling pain. Good luck. Please let us know how it works out. Our doctor had to try several drugs on Sharon until he found what worked. They by law had to witness each other flush the unused portion down the toilet. long life, old age, everything good-Apache prayer ____________ _________ _________ __ From: diane chandler <dianechandler@ att.net> To: livercirrhosissuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 4:26:52 PM Subject: Re: Re: Watts Bobby, would they be able to offer something besides anything in the morphine family? Morphine produces halucinations in Terry. I'm definitely going to call the doctor tomorrow, if we make it through the night without going to the ER. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: " robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com " <robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com> To: Livercirrhosissuppo rt <livercirrhosissupp o rtyahoogroups (DOT) com> Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 4:35:06 PM Subject: Re: Re: Watts That being the case a small dose of a pure opoid would not be unreasonable at this point either.. He is hospice eligible, and you can bet your bottom dollar that by now hospice would be assressing his nausea, but even more aggresivly addressing his pain. For them, pain is a no no. Unfortunately these drugs have been so demonized that even I had a kinpshun fit about Ardis taking them when she was switched over to hospice status, but still in the nursing home. They did give her roxynol which is like liquid morphine and it took her pain away. I am so used to the medicine now that there isn't much in the way of drowsyness, but whatever side effects are far outweighed by being able to function a little better. I'm out andf about today, but with out medicine, I'd be in bed. Good luck. Love Bobby Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile Re: Watts how are you doing diane ?? > > > > It is with great sadness that I have to inform you that 's > > husband, , passed away earlier this evening. of > course, > > and her children, are broken hearted. Please pray for them that > the > > Lord will give them encouragement and strength to face the days > ahead. > > > > I expect to hear from her again tomorrow. As soon as I know more, > I > > will post again. > > > > In case I never get the chance to say it again, I am so thankful > for > > each of you and for the love and support I have found in this > group. I > > love you all and I pray for each of your needs daily. Thank you > for > > being a friend and for always being here when I need you. > > > > Love and hugs........ . > > Diane > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 No he hasn't ruled out H-pylori. I think he wants to wait for the biopsy reports and then we'll talk more I'll keep you all posted. Thanks for the info. I didn't think I took enough MS contin to cause that much damage....so we'll see. It would be nice not to be nauseated!! LOL. On another note, I just talked with Diane on the phone. She hasn't been on line all day and I was worried. She said to tell you all that Terry is much better today...lucid , no fever and was able to eat some. What a relief. She said the Lord is good to them and they are doing okay. They are having thunderstorms all day and she gets no satellite reception when that happens and consequently no Internet either. She said she hates being disconnected! Love,Jill We don't remember days, we remember moments. Life is not measured by the breaths we take,but by the moments that take our breath away. From: Bob Aragon <robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: pain relief for Terry To: livercirrhosissuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:55 PM Diane, the opium poppy, called Papaver somniferum L. elite, contains 92% morphine, codeine, and thebaine. Morphine is made into heroin and also used as is, Thebain is made in to oxycodone, oxymorphone, and hydromorphone, which are the narcotic ingredient in oxycontin, percocet, opana,dilaudid, and vicodin and lortab. I can personally attest to how very very different these drugs are. Even two of the drugs from the same alkaloid are very different. The straw of the poppy is made in to an opoid agonist called naltrexone, and that is also used for pain as well. There are some which are more synthetic, and less natural, like methadone, but unless Terry has used all of these and found none of them to be of any use, then I know of nothing else on earth that can stop the pain signal as well. If it existed, Sharon and I would have tried it. We went to a pain doctor as a last resort. I started taking narcotics like the frog in the boiling water. I started with an ever so tiny dose, and told him I just was not interested in an around the clock medication. That changed, after the pain reacted to the small small dose. The pain in my liver and spleen increased until I could hardly breath, and I finally relented, and live fairly comfortable now. One thing I must stress is that these medicines take some getting used to. Sharon had a tough time at first, and cried at every meal for 6 months, because the drugs made her feel sick. She lost a lot of weight. Until my pain doctor finally found something that works for me, I was having nausea every single day, and hardly any pain relief, and a terrible " high " feeling that I now believe is what people will sell grandma's china for, but now I feel nothing at all except for pain when it's time for another pill. Just remember codeine and it's derivatives are not identical to morphine and it's derivatives, and also thebain and it's derivatives. These three alkaloids come from the same plant, but to me they are totally different as far as side effects, but they are extremely effective at controlling pain. Good luck. Please let us know how it works out. Our doctor had to try several drugs on Sharon until he found what worked. They by law had to witness each other flush the unused portion down the toilet. long life, old age, everything good-Apache prayer ____________ _________ _________ __ From: diane chandler <dianechandler@ att.net> To: livercirrhosissuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 4:26:52 PM Subject: Re: Re: Watts Bobby, would they be able to offer something besides anything in the morphine family? Morphine produces halucinations in Terry. I'm definitely going to call the doctor tomorrow, if we make it through the night without going to the ER. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: " robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com " <robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com> To: Livercirrhosissuppo rt <livercirrhosissupp o rtyahoogroups (DOT) com> Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 4:35:06 PM Subject: Re: Re: Watts That being the case a small dose of a pure opoid would not be unreasonable at this point either.. He is hospice eligible, and you can bet your bottom dollar that by now hospice would be assressing his nausea, but even more aggresivly addressing his pain. For them, pain is a no no. Unfortunately these drugs have been so demonized that even I had a kinpshun fit about Ardis taking them when she was switched over to hospice status, but still in the nursing home. They did give her roxynol which is like liquid morphine and it took her pain away. I am so used to the medicine now that there isn't much in the way of drowsyness, but whatever side effects are far outweighed by being able to function a little better. I'm out andf about today, but with out medicine, I'd be in bed. Good luck. Love Bobby Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile Re: Watts how are you doing diane ?? > > > > It is with great sadness that I have to inform you that 's > > husband, , passed away earlier this evening. of > course, > > and her children, are broken hearted. Please pray for them that > the > > Lord will give them encouragement and strength to face the days > ahead. > > > > I expect to hear from her again tomorrow. As soon as I know more, > I > > will post again. > > > > In case I never get the chance to say it again, I am so thankful > for > > each of you and for the love and support I have found in this > group. I > > love you all and I pray for each of your needs daily. Thank you > for > > being a friend and for always being here when I need you. > > > > Love and hugs........ . > > Diane > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 okay....thank is for the info. I'm printing these posts about the suggested alternative pain med deliveries and keeping them in my purse for my next doctor visit!! Love,Jill We don't remember days, we remember moments. Life is not measured by the breaths we take,but by the moments that take our breath away. From: Bob Aragon <robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: pain relief for Terry To: livercirrhosissuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:55 PM Diane, the opium poppy, called Papaver somniferum L. elite, contains 92% morphine, codeine, and thebaine. Morphine is made into heroin and also used as is, Thebain is made in to oxycodone, oxymorphone, and hydromorphone, which are the narcotic ingredient in oxycontin, percocet, opana,dilaudid, and vicodin and lortab. I can personally attest to how very very different these drugs are. Even two of the drugs from the same alkaloid are very different. The straw of the poppy is made in to an opoid agonist called naltrexone, and that is also used for pain as well. There are some which are more synthetic, and less natural, like methadone, but unless Terry has used all of these and found none of them to be of any use, then I know of nothing else on earth that can stop the pain signal as well. If it existed, Sharon and I would have tried it. We went to a pain doctor as a last resort. I started taking narcotics like the frog in the boiling water. I started with an ever so tiny dose, and told him I just was not interested in an around the clock medication. That changed, after the pain reacted to the small small dose. The pain in my liver and spleen increased until I could hardly breath, and I finally relented, and live fairly comfortable now. One thing I must stress is that these medicines take some getting used to. Sharon had a tough time at first, and cried at every meal for 6 months, because the drugs made her feel sick. She lost a lot of weight. Until my pain doctor finally found something that works for me, I was having nausea every single day, and hardly any pain relief, and a terrible " high " feeling that I now believe is what people will sell grandma's china for, but now I feel nothing at all except for pain when it's time for another pill. Just remember codeine and it's derivatives are not identical to morphine and it's derivatives, and also thebain and it's derivatives. These three alkaloids come from the same plant, but to me they are totally different as far as side effects, but they are extremely effective at controlling pain. Good luck. Please let us know how it works out. Our doctor had to try several drugs on Sharon until he found what worked. They by law had to witness each other flush the unused portion down the toilet. long life, old age, everything good-Apache prayer ____________ _________ _________ __ From: diane chandler <dianechandler@ att.net> To: livercirrhosissuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 4:26:52 PM Subject: Re: Re: Watts Bobby, would they be able to offer something besides anything in the morphine family? Morphine produces halucinations in Terry. I'm definitely going to call the doctor tomorrow, if we make it through the night without going to the ER. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: " robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com " <robwalkingeagle@ yahoo.com> To: Livercirrhosissuppo rt <livercirrhosissupp o rtyahoogroups (DOT) com> Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 4:35:06 PM Subject: Re: Re: Watts That being the case a small dose of a pure opoid would not be unreasonable at this point either.. He is hospice eligible, and you can bet your bottom dollar that by now hospice would be assressing his nausea, but even more aggresivly addressing his pain. For them, pain is a no no. Unfortunately these drugs have been so demonized that even I had a kinpshun fit about Ardis taking them when she was switched over to hospice status, but still in the nursing home. They did give her roxynol which is like liquid morphine and it took her pain away. I am so used to the medicine now that there isn't much in the way of drowsyness, but whatever side effects are far outweighed by being able to function a little better. I'm out andf about today, but with out medicine, I'd be in bed. Good luck. Love Bobby Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile Re: Watts how are you doing diane ?? > > > > It is with great sadness that I have to inform you that 's > > husband, , passed away earlier this evening. of > course, > > and her children, are broken hearted. Please pray for them that > the > > Lord will give them encouragement and strength to face the days > ahead. > > > > I expect to hear from her again tomorrow. As soon as I know more, > I > > will post again. > > > > In case I never get the chance to say it again, I am so thankful > for > > each of you and for the love and support I have found in this > group. I > > love you all and I pray for each of your needs daily. Thank you > for > > being a friend and for always being here when I need you. > > > > Love and hugs........ . > > Diane > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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