Re: HELP!!!refusal to take Lactulose and paranoia

[Guest guest]

, I'm so sorry that this is happening to and to you.  My only

suggestion would be to call 911 and take him to the ER.  They should be able to

help you help him.  Prayinng for both of you.

Hugs............

Diane

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 5:20:47 PM

Subject: HELP!!!refusal to take Lactulose and paranoia

I am at my wits end. 's condition seems to be deteriorating quickly,

especially his symptoms of cirrhosis (he also has recurrent colon cancer

that has metastasized to his liver and elsewhere.

Where he had no noticeabble ascites 3 months ago, it is becoming pronounced,

and I can now see the enlarged veins beneath the skin of his abdomen. He has

been in varying degrees of encephalopathy for a week now. He has always

refused the lactulose becasue the surgery for the cancer left him with a

shortened rectum and the radiation made the rectum that is left not very

elastic, causing many accidents.

He all of a sudden thinks I am out to get him, doesn't see that he is acting

sifferently, or at least not enough so to be alarming...I am becomeing

afraid to be around him

Any suggestions?

Please?

------------------------------------

Group Email:    livercirrhosissupport

web address:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/livercirrhosissupport/

[Guest guest]

Call the doctor, ask for hospice evaluation, and if possible , transfer him to

an inpatient hospice. In an emergency, call 911. The ER is better than you

getting hurt !! You are not trained to care for him in this state. I myself was

afraid of Ardis at times because she was unattached from reality. In fact when

the paramedics rolled her stretcher in to the skilled nursing facility, I was

there in her room to meet her, and she came in cussing and ready to fight,. I

don;'t have to this day any idea what set her off, but she was saying " how

could do that to my dog? You f---er,! F-- you, go to h---! " and so on and so

on. I stepped out to give her a chance to cool off, and in fact when I came

back around dinner time, she greeted me with : " hello, my darling " . I asked her

if she remembered acting out, and she said " unfortunately , yes " . I asked her why

she was upset, and she couldn't say. If I were a woman, and she were a man,

this story would have had a

different ending. I would have not been able to care for her. At the time I was

6 feet, and weighed 350 lbs, and she was around 100 lbs. , I am worried

about your safety. This is heartbreaking, I realize, but you need some help. Ask

the doctor for advice to see if they say the same thing. Good luck, and please

let us know what happens. If worse comes to worse, call 911. Once he is in the

hospital, the social worker will help you figure this out. They can arrange the

hospice, and or skilled nursing facility. They can try a non absorbable

antibiotic called Rifaximin for the encephalopathy, and even give a lactulose

enema, they are trained and equipped to deal with poop. They might find another

reason for mental changes, like infection. Any time a patient like has

noticeable changes, he should be evaluated by professionals, there might be a

simple reason for it. Good luck, . Hug. Love, Bobby

long life, old age, everything good-Apache prayer

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 4:20:47 PM

Subject: HELP!!!refusal to take Lactulose and paranoia

I am at my wits end. 's condition seems to be deteriorating quickly,

especially his symptoms of cirrhosis (he also has recurrent colon cancer

that has metastasized to his liver and elsewhere.

Where he had no noticeabble ascites 3 months ago, it is becoming pronounced,

and I can now see the enlarged veins beneath the skin of his abdomen. He has

been in varying degrees of encephalopathy for a week now. He has always

refused the lactulose becasue the surgery for the cancer left him with a

shortened rectum and the radiation made the rectum that is left not very

elastic, causing many accidents.

He all of a sudden thinks I am out to get him, doesn't see that he is acting

sifferently, or at least not enough so to be alarming...I am becomeing

afraid to be around him

Any suggestions?

Please?

------------------------------------

Group Email: livercirrhosissupport

web address:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/livercirrhosissupport/

[Guest guest]

mary i wish you all the best honey, if things get crazy call for

help.o.k? i know when my husband starts acting out its the liver, hes

always been gentle and some days its like who is this man, it wounds

my sole but i cry silently and pray god will make it stop and he

always has so far.bobby glenn weighs a bit more than me and is very

strong still, so if it got real bad i too would be scared honey.i am

praying for both of you take care and keep us posted ,much love barby-

-- In livercirrhosissupport , Bob Aragon

wrote:

>

> Call the doctor, ask for hospice evaluation, and if possible ,

transfer him to an inpatient hospice. In an emergency, call 911. The

ER is better than you getting hurt !! You are not trained to care for

him in this state. I myself was afraid of Ardis at times because she

was unattached from reality. In fact when the paramedics rolled her

stretcher in to the skilled nursing facility, I was there in her room

to meet her, and she came in cussing and ready to fight,. I don;'t

have to this day any idea what set her off, but she was saying " how

could do that to my dog? You f---er,! F-- you, go to h---! " and so

on and so on. I stepped out to give her a chance to cool off, and in

fact when I came back around dinner time, she greeted me

with : " hello, my darling " . I asked her if she remembered acting out,

and she said " unfortunately , yes " . I asked her why she was upset, and

she couldn't say. If I were a woman, and she were a man, this story

would have had a

> different ending. I would have not been able to care for her. At

the time I was 6 feet, and weighed 350 lbs, and she was around 100

lbs. , I am worried about your safety. This is heartbreaking, I

realize, but you need some help. Ask the doctor for advice to see if

they say the same thing. Good luck, and please let us know what

happens. If worse comes to worse, call 911. Once he is in the

hospital, the social worker will help you figure this out. They can

arrange the hospice, and or skilled nursing facility. They can try a

non absorbable antibiotic called Rifaximin for the encephalopathy,

and even give a lactulose enema, they are trained and equipped to

deal with poop. They might find another reason for mental changes,

like infection. Any time a patient like has noticeable

changes, he should be evaluated by professionals, there might be a

simple reason for it. Good luck, . Hug. Love, Bobby

>

> long life, old age, everything good-Apache prayer

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: livercirrhosissupport

> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 4:20:47 PM

> Subject: HELP!!!refusal to take Lactulose

and paranoia

>

> I am at my wits end. 's condition seems to be deteriorating

quickly,

> especially his symptoms of cirrhosis (he also has recurrent colon

cancer

> that has metastasized to his liver and elsewhere.

> Where he had no noticeabble ascites 3 months ago, it is becoming

pronounced,

> and I can now see the enlarged veins beneath the skin of his

abdomen. He has

> been in varying degrees of encephalopathy for a week now. He has

always

> refused the lactulose becasue the surgery for the cancer left him

with a

> shortened rectum and the radiation made the rectum that is left not

very

> elastic, causing many accidents.

>

> He all of a sudden thinks I am out to get him, doesn't see that he

is acting

> sifferently, or at least not enough so to be alarming...I am

becomeing

> afraid to be around him

>

> Any suggestions?

> Please?

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Group Email: livercirrhosissupport

> web address:

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/livercirrhosissupport/

>

[Guest guest]

Bob Aragon said; Call the doctor, ask for hospice evaluation, and if possible

, transfer him to an inpatient hospice.

I wish it were that simple...the oncologist has offered him one more chance of

treatment. It wouldn't be curative, but could, if it works, give him a few extra

months, or as long as a year. The doctor is only giving the treatment a 20-25%

chance of doing any good, but without it, he said he has 6 months or less. I

don't know if the option of one last try at treatment will still be open in

light of 's recent mental decline, but I guess if it is treatable, it might

be.

The oncologist said if decided NOT to do the treatment he would set us up

with hospice, but it is my understanding that you have to have given up all

treatments directed towards prolonging life.

I had done some research and found that certain antibiotics would help the

encephalopathy. I wish the doctor had mentioned these before.

I think that it was an infection that precipitated these incidents:

My grandson and I had a cold, but caught it and was in bed for 2 weeks.

The bad encephalopathy started then, and it has waxed and waned since then.

Sometimes I will think he is back to normal and then he will do or say something

that lets me know he isn't.

I didn't even know he had these negative feelings towards me until my sister

in law, who had stayed with him Friday called to see how I was. She went home

before I got home and she said was Furious at me and wanted to know what he

had said to me when I got home....I told her nothing....He didn't start

expressing all this anger towards me directly until Saturday evening when he

realized I had taken his car keys.

I know that he is very angry that his life now appears to be significantly

ahortened, an perhaps he in turn feels some resentment towards me that I will

still be around to enjoy the grandchildren and the rest of life. Who knows.

I have gone through this to a lessor degree with my brother years back...he

didn't get mad at US, but he was sure all the hospital personel were spies and

he would see dinosaurs flying around his apartment.

This is SO not fun, as I am sure all of you are quite aware:-) Thanks for

listening!

[Guest guest]

ahhh mary honey you dont have to thank us for listening thats what we

are here for, we are all in this together babe. someday you will be

listening to me lol, and trust me i do the UGLY cry lol lol.just know

we are here for you sweetheart always here for you ,much love barby---

In livercirrhosissupport , " " wrote:

>

> Bob Aragon said; Call the doctor, ask for hospice evaluation, and

if possible , transfer him to an inpatient hospice.

> I wish it were that simple...the oncologist has offered him one

more chance of treatment. It wouldn't be curative, but could, if it

works, give him a few extra months, or as long as a year. The doctor

is only giving the treatment a 20-25% chance of doing any good, but

without it, he said he has 6 months or less. I don't know if the

option of one last try at treatment will still be open in light of

's recent mental decline, but I guess if it is treatable, it

might be.

>

> The oncologist said if decided NOT to do the treatment he

would set us up with hospice, but it is my understanding that you

have to have given up all treatments directed towards prolonging life.

>

> I had done some research and found that certain antibiotics

would help the encephalopathy. I wish the doctor had mentioned these

before.

>

> I think that it was an infection that precipitated these

incidents:

>

> My grandson and I had a cold, but caught it and was in bed

for 2 weeks. The bad encephalopathy started then, and it has waxed

and waned since then. Sometimes I will think he is back to normal and

then he will do or say something that lets me know he isn't.

>

> I didn't even know he had these negative feelings towards me

until my sister in law, who had stayed with him Friday called to see

how I was. She went home before I got home and she said was

Furious at me and wanted to know what he had said to me when I got

home....I told her nothing....He didn't start expressing all this

anger towards me directly until Saturday evening when he realized I

had taken his car keys.

> I know that he is very angry that his life now appears to be

significantly ahortened, an perhaps he in turn feels some resentment

towards me that I will still be around to enjoy the grandchildren and

the rest of life. Who knows.

>

> I have gone through this to a lessor degree with my brother years

back...he didn't get mad at US, but he was sure all the hospital

personel were spies and he would see dinosaurs flying around his

apartment.

>

> This is SO not fun, as I am sure all of you are quite aware:-)

Thanks for listening!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I am so very sorry for all you're going through.  No, it is definitely not

fun!  Please remember that, when is being ugly, it is not , it is his

liver and the attendant illness.  Anger is a common reaction to the kinds of

losses they suffer.  Combine that with the encephalopathy and you're sure to

have a volatile mix.  There are days when I don't know my husband at all

anymore, but I know that same wonderful man I married so many years ago is still

in there.  He just can't find his way out through all the muck that has planted

itself in his mind to confuse him.  Please don't misunderstand and think I'm

some sort of saint who never gets upset or angry or discouraged with all this! 

Nothing could be farther from the truth!  I have my days when I want to yank my

hair out by the roots and scream at the top of my lungs 'It's not fair! It's not

fair!', but I don't do it because I know it will do no good.  Please know I

understand what

you're going through and I'm always here if you need a friend.  I am praying

for you and for and for all the two of you are facing.  And, you're right,

Hospice is only for those who have decided on comfort care only; no more life

extending measures.  Whatever you do, just know you're doing the right thing for

you and that's the only thing that matters.  It doesn't matter what anyone but

you thinks of the decision you make.

Love and hugs............

Diane

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 7:39:35 PM

Subject: Re: HELP!!!refusal to take Lactulose and

paranoia

Bob Aragon said; Call the doctor, ask for hospice evaluation, and if possible ,

transfer him to an inpatient hospice.

I wish it were that simple...the oncologist has offered him one more chance of

treatment. It wouldn't be curative, but could, if it works, give him a few extra

months, or as long as a year. The doctor is only giving the treatment a 20-25%

chance of doing any good, but without it, he said he has 6 months or less. I

don't know if the option of one last try at treatment will still be open in

light of 's recent mental decline, but I guess if it is treatable, it might

be.

The oncologist said if decided NOT to do the treatment he would set us up

with hospice, but it is my understanding that you have to have given up all

treatments directed towards prolonging life.

I had done some research and found that certain antibiotics would help the

encephalopathy. I wish the doctor had mentioned these before.

I think that it was an infection that precipitated these incidents:

My grandson and I had a cold, but caught it and was in bed for 2 weeks. The

bad encephalopathy started then, and it has waxed and waned since then.

Sometimes I will think he is back to normal and then he will do or say something

that lets me know he isn't.

I didn't even know he had these negative feelings towards me until my sister in

law, who had stayed with him Friday called to see how I was. She went home

before I got home and she said was Furious at me and wanted to know what he

had said to me when I got home....I told her nothing....He didn't start

expressing all this anger towards me directly until Saturday evening when he

realized I had taken his car keys.

I know that he is very angry that his life now appears to be significantly

ahortened, an perhaps he in turn feels some resentment towards me that I will

still be around to enjoy the grandchildren and the rest of life. Who knows.

I have gone through this to a lessor degree with my brother years back...he

didn't get mad at US, but he was sure all the hospital personel were spies and

he would see dinosaurs flying around his apartment.

This is SO not fun, as I am sure all of you are quite aware:-) Thanks for

listening!

[Guest guest]

my dear i pray that since you posted this cry for help something changed

with john and you...If not then please protect your self and try any thing and

every thing you can to get help and did i say protect your self...love sandra

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 6:20:47 PM

Subject: HELP!!!refusal to take Lactulose and paranoia

I am at my wits end. 's condition seems to be deteriorating quickly,

especially his symptoms of cirrhosis (he also has recurrent colon cancer

that has metastasized to his liver and elsewhere.

Where he had no noticeabble ascites 3 months ago, it is becoming pronounced,

and I can now see the enlarged veins beneath the skin of his abdomen. He has

been in varying degrees of encephalopathy for a week now. He has always

refused the lactulose becasue the surgery for the cancer left him with a

shortened rectum and the radiation made the rectum that is left not very

elastic, causing many accidents.

He all of a sudden thinks I am out to get him, doesn't see that he is acting

sifferently, or at least not enough so to be alarming...I am becomeing

afraid to be around him

Any suggestions?

Please?

------------------------------------

Group Email:    livercirrhosissupport

web address:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/livercirrhosissupport/