anyone else want to comment on this?

[Guest guest]

I am SO SICK of smug columnists, who do not have

ONE CLUE about what it is really like to have a child w/Ds, making all of their

“oh, a loving parent would abort a baby with Ds”

comments.

I wrote a comment (don’t see it posted yet, though)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/minette_marrin/article5258348.ece

[Guest guest]

She did make one very true statement/point-

"People who reject abortion as always wrong are consistent and one cannot

argue with them. But anyone who thinks abortion is acceptable under some

circumstances, and who yet disapproves of what’s emotionally seen as

“eugenic” abortion, is in an untenable position. After all, people accept

abortion for certain “social reasons”, .................... ( I obviously don't agree with her notion that people with DS lead such a horrible life though...) and what more powerful “social

reason” could there be for an abortion than the virtual certainty that the

foetus would be condemned to a life of frustration, disappointment,

dependence, serious illness and poverty, to the great sorrow and hardship of

its family? Carol in ILMom to , 8 DS My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me.Join our Down Syndrome information group - http://health. groups.yahoo. com/group/ DownSyndromeInfo Exchange/ http://downsyndromeinfoexchange.blogspot.com/Listen to oldest dd's music http://www.myspace.com/vennamusicFrom: Kathy Ratkiewicz

To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:30:04 PMSubject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] anyone else want to comment on this?

I am SO SICK of smug columnists, who do not have

ONE CLUE about what it is really like to have a child w/Ds, making all of their

“oh, a loving parent would abort a baby with Ds”

comments. I wrote a comment (don’t see it posted yet, though) http://www.timesonl ine.co.uk/ tol/comment/ columnists/ minette_marrin/ article5258348. ece

[Guest guest]

Okay. I normally don't take the time to respond to articles from ignorant

individuals. However, this one was over the line. I wrote twice.

Kim

Adulation is poison. - President Gordon B. Hinckley

>

> Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] anyone else want to comment on this?

> To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange

> Date: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 7:30 PM

> I am SO SICK of smug columnists, who do not have ONE CLUE

> about what it is

> really like to have a child w/Ds, making all of their

>

> " oh, a loving parent would abort a baby with Ds "

> comments.

>

> I wrote a comment (don't see it posted yet, though)

>

>

>

> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/minette_marrin/article52

> 58348.ece

[Guest guest]

I don't understand how someone who doesn't have any experience with Down syndrome can write an article about something they know nothing about. It's just ridiculous how she goes on about about all the health issues as if every child with DS will have ALL of them.

I posted a comment as well. It probably won't get published though.

Judy

Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] anyone else want to comment on this?To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange Date: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 5:30 PM

I am SO SICK of smug columnists, who do not have ONE CLUE about what it is really like to have a child w/Ds, making all of their

“oh, a loving parent would abort a baby with Ds” comments.

I wrote a comment (don’t see it posted yet, though)

http://www.timesonl ine.co.uk/ tol/comment/ columnists/ minette_marrin/ article5258348. ece

[Guest guest]

I just left a comment as well, but read that it may not be published due to the high volume of comments received already. Yeah, right...

smom

"Where there is passion and a fire burning in your heart, there is hope..."

"I cannot do everything, but still I can do something." Ms. Helen Keller

From: Kathy Ratkiewicz <Kathy_Rcomcast (DOT) net>Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoEx change] anyone else want to comment on this?To: DownSyndromeInfoExc hange@yahoogroup s.comDate: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 5:30 PM

I am SO SICK of smug columnists, who do not have ONE CLUE about what it is really like to have a child w/Ds, making all of their

“oh, a loving parent would abort a baby with Ds” comments.

I wrote a comment (don’t see it posted yet, though)

http://www.timesonl ine.co.uk/ tol/comment/ columnists/ minette_marrin/ article5258348. ece

[Guest guest]

Yeah, so far all I see are the two comments agreeing with her.

From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange

[mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of Judy

Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 11:14 PM

To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange

Subject: Re: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] anyone else want to comment on

this?

I don't understand how someone who doesn't have any

experience with Down syndrome can write an article about something they know

nothing about. It's just ridiculous how she goes on about about all the

health issues as if every child with DS will have ALL of them.

I posted a comment as well. It probably won't get

published though.

Judy

From: Kathy Ratkiewicz

Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] anyone else want to comment on this?

To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange

Date: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 5:30 PM

I

am SO SICK of smug columnists, who do not have ONE CLUE about

what it is really like to have a child w/Ds, making all of their

“oh,

a loving parent would abort a baby with Ds” comments.

I

wrote a comment (don’t see it posted yet, though)

http://www.timesonl ine.co.uk/ tol/comment/ columnists/

minette_marrin/ article5258348. ece

[Guest guest]

I'm definately not impressed with that article. I sent her a message. I have an article from TIMES Magazine that talked about Sujeet and Dasai, married, happy, and living on their own in New York city. What really got me about this article is that the writer assumes that individuals with Down Syndrome will never be able to take care of themselves, or hold a job. Despite what she says and her ignorance, I have to say that I am very surprised that this article was published, and the only reason it was, was because it was one of those topics that gets the world "going". If everyone that said they "knew someone" with a disability actually KNEW them, then these articles would not exist. Have a great weekend, Modisette wrote: Okay. I normally don't take the time to respond to articles from ignorant individuals. However, this one was over the line. I wrote twice. KimAdulation is poison. - President Gordon B. Hinckley> From: Kathy Ratkiewicz <Kathy_Rcomcast (DOT) net>> Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] anyone else want to comment on this?> To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange >

Date: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 7:30 PM> I am SO SICK of smug columnists, who do not have ONE CLUE> about what it is> really like to have a child w/Ds, making all of their > > "oh, a loving parent would abort a baby with Ds"> comments.> > I wrote a comment (don't see it posted yet, though)> > > > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/minette_marrin/article52> 58348.ece* What seems like the end may really be a new beginning** Be happy and thankful for all

that you have always....

[Guest guest]

I just posted too and it says that it might not be on the site because of a "high volume of traffic". LOL. Sure....Kathy Ratkiewicz wrote: Yeah, so far all I see are the two comments agreeing with her. From: DownSyndromeInfoExchange [mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of Judy Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 11:14 PMTo: DownSyndromeInfoExchange Subject: Re: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] anyone else want to comment on this? I don't understand how someone who doesn't have any experience with Down syndrome can write an article about something they know nothing about. It's just ridiculous how she goes on about about all the health issues as if every child with DS will have ALL of them. I posted a comment as well. It probably won't get published though. Judy From: Kathy Ratkiewicz <Kathy_Rcomcast (DOT) net>Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] anyone else want to comment on this?To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange Date: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 5:30 PM I am SO SICK of smug columnists, who do not have ONE CLUE about what it is really like to have a child w/Ds, making all of their “oh, a loving parent would abort a

baby with Ds” comments. I wrote a comment (don’t see it posted yet, though) http://www.timesonl ine.co.uk/ tol/comment/ columnists/ minette_marrin/ article5258348. ece * What seems like the end may really be a new beginning** Be happy and thankful for all that you

have always....

[Guest guest]

I don't see any of "our" comments, looks like they are trying to balance pro and con. Here's my comment:

How sad that society doesn't recognize eugenics when slapped in the face by it. Eugenics is the elimination of a group of people, such as people with Down syndrome. Who made us "normal" people God, to determine the worth of a person's life?

ette

-------------- Original message from "Kathy Ratkiewicz" : --------------

I am SO SICK of smug columnists, who do not have ONE CLUE about what it is really like to have a child w/Ds, making all of their

“oh, a loving parent would abort a baby with Ds†comments.

I wrote a comment (don’t see it posted yet, though)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/minette_marrin/article5258348.ece

[Guest guest]

Yes, that's my comment.....surprise, surprise!

Judy

From: Kathy Ratkiewicz <Kathy_Rcomcast (DOT) net>Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoEx change] anyone else want to comment on this?To: DownSyndromeInfoExc hange@yahoogroup s.comDate: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 5:30 PM

I am SO SICK of smug columnists, who do not have ONE CLUE about what it is really like to have a child w/Ds, making all of their

“oh, a loving parent would abort a baby with Ds” comments.

I wrote a comment (don’t see it posted yet, though)

http://www.timesonl ine.co.uk/ tol/comment/ columnists/ minette_marrin/ article5258348. ece

[Guest guest]

I just double checked a bit ago if my comment was yet posted...Nope and it probably won't be due to, what it read...may not be published due to the high volume of comments received...again I say, yeah right...Thats ok, I posted again...

smom

"Where there is passion and a fire burning in your heart, there is hope..."

"I cannot do everything, but still I can do something." Ms. Helen Keller

From: Kathy Ratkiewicz <Kathy_Rcomcast (DOT) net>Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoEx change] anyone else want to comment on this?To: DownSyndromeInfoExc hange@yahoogroup s.comDate: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 5:30 PM

I am SO SICK of smug columnists, who do not have ONE CLUE about what it is really like to have a child w/Ds, making all of their

“oh, a loving parent would abort a baby with Ds” comments.

I wrote a comment (don’t see it posted yet, though) http://www.timesonl ine.co.uk/ tol/comment/ columnists/ minette_marrin/ article5258348. ece

[Guest guest]

Well, her bio does say she's a fiction writer...guess that part's right... She probably thinks "spina bifida kids" shouldn't live either. GRRR Mattheiss, Executive DirectorLifeLine, Inc.Reaching Families of Those with Special Needs With Support, Education, and Respitewww.LifeLineFamilies.org-- "Kathy Ratkiewicz" wrote:

I am SO SICK of smug columnists, who do not have ONE CLUE about what it is really like to have a child w/Ds, making all of their

“oh, a loving parent would abort a baby with Ds” comments.

I wrote a comment (don’t see it posted yet, though)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/minette_marrin/article5258348.ece

____________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Very well said, Hope. And yeah…not much chance that it will get

published;-(

From:

DownSyndromeInfoExchange

[mailto:DownSyndromeInfoExchange ] On Behalf Of Hope

Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:44 AM

To: DownSyndromeInfoExchange

Subject: [DownSyndromeInfoExchange] Re:anyone else want to comment on

this?

There are about a dozen replies posted now but

I still did not see one

that I thought was from anyone here. I did like these two.

A callousness about the value of human life permeates Marrin's

viewpoint, because if abortion ends up as eugenics, then whether any

foetus comes to birth depends upon the preferences of the woman. How can

anyone determine the worth and quality of another's life before it is

even lived?

Lee, Birmingham,

Let me get this straight: you think babies with Down Syndrome should be

aborted because they might not have a great sex life? Many people--with

all the correct bits and pieces--have unfortunate romantic and sexual

lives, Marilyn Monroe and Princess , for two.

Cohen, Los Angeles, USA

This is my reply. It probably won't be posted.

The issue is one of life itself, not the quality of the life. Just like

the general population, some people with Down syndrome will have a great

quality of life and some will not. But that is by the judgment of fallen

human nature. Who are we to deem the value of another human being? The

way of the world is to be successful and happy at all cost. It's all

about image, power and prestige. Look out for number one. If you don't

who will? But the way of God is much different. His measurement of

greatness is much different than ours. His estimation of suffering is

much different than ours. It cost God much to pour out and reveal His

mercy, chiefly in the suffering and agonizing death of His Son. What

will it cost us to show the same? The question most expectant mothers

with a prenatal dx ask themselves is what will it cost me? What will I

have to sacrifice to bring this child into the world? Obviously from the

91% termination rate the answer of most is that the cost or possible

cost is too high. It's about the mother and " her " choice. She never

once

considers the choice of the life inside of her or the giver of that life.

Hope