Re: I dropped into Church last week.

[Guest guest]

Yes I agree 100% this is not a battle and that thought never entered my mind, this is about getting the facts out there about how to defeat 4s with healthy debating so people don't waste their precious time on wild goose chases as I would hate to think I contributed to leading someone down a lengthy dead end. Also I'd hate to be the reason that someone missed out on an opportunity for improvement.

I therefore must respond as the link that I posted could be misconstrued into leading someone down that path either way of help or no help at all.

The use of the word "significance" in this article can only imply that there were people in the prayer control group that did have an improvement, but the experimant was unable to say whether these same people would have improved without the prayer so basically they had to use the word "significant" even if only one out of three hundred people in the prayer group had improved.

Yes the study mentions anomalies which show that prayer "may" help. They could only use the word "may" as I have explained with 'significant", even if one person improved.

Another reason for this was in response to the idea that the prayer had improved the patients readiness for death which is another type of healing. No doubt which would never have been uttered had the prayer worked on the whole control group, nor the idea that "prayer isn't a penny in a slot machine," one doesn't have to be an Einstein to know that had the experiment worked in favour of Prayer, they would have all jumped on the bandwagon promoting it's success. Although true it works both ways as the way I perceive the experimant to be a success of some sorts. To be fair here is another take

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3193902.stm

The experiment fails to mention the idea that it's quite possible that people who improve speedily after a heart problems are inclined to already be the praying type, rather than the other way around.

Let's agree to disagree on some things, that I can agree to, like I have said before I believe that our 4s has given us an increased ability for empathy. So I will just have to disagree that I think some things ought not to be censored, especially when it comes to younger people who haven't the experience to make wise decisions and they take things on face value, such as the idea that the prayer experiment in some quarters has been promoted a total success in favour of prayer, which is a completely false statement.

I want help and I want to help people, I have suggested here that people cut out caffeine and stimulants, only because it works for me, but I will never say that it just plain works, because it is only a matter of personal experience.

For those that think a religious experience will help, then provided it's not a band-aid solution then I say go for it, on the other side of the coin, for those that are religious and have been praying all their life, look into the idea that there might be no God and you might be set free, catapulting your mind into another direction.

Let's all help each other, the operative word being "Help"

From: andra Ruiz <alexandrara@ yahoo.com>Subject: Re: Re: I dropped into Church last week.To: Soundsensitivity@ yahoogroups. comReceived: Saturday, 6 December, 2008, 8:08 AM

Thank You Val )I admire you for being so open and honest. I believe that prayer can be very powerful...here' s some interesting info on the scientific benefits today and how studies show prayer can help people to overcome illness:

The Scientific Benefits of Prayer

Did you know that 79 of the country's 125 medical schools now offer classes on prayer and medicine? Perhaps this is due in part to the over 100 studies that have shown prayer helps in the prevention and treatment of disease, according to Larry Dossey, MD.

For instance, one study conducted at the Duke University Medical Center showed that heart patients who were prayed for, by prayer gatherings of people from around the world, were more likely to recover with fewer complications than those who were not prayed for at all. Interestingly enough, the patients didn't have to know they were being prayed for to benefit from the prayers and according to Dossey, the power of prayer worked across all religions and systems of belief. Even plants, bacteria and mice respond beneficially to prayer in these various studies. The

most important factor was the empathy, love and compassion felt and projected by the person doing the praying.

But prayer is not just good medicine for others. It is also a powerful health and energy booster for us. Research suggests that those with a strong spiritual faith live longer and happier lives, are more likely to overcome adversity, are better able to deal with physical pain and recover faster and stronger from heart and hip surgeries. Prayer is the ultimate energizer and like everything in the universe it is a form of energy that we give, direct and receive.

So what can you do to experience the scientific benefits of prayer? Simply take time each day to pray for others and pray for yourself. Just remember to not only say the words but also feel the empathy, love and compassion in your heart. When we do this, we benefit and the world benefits together. All the best,andra

To: Soundsensitivity@ yahoogroups. comSent: Friday, December 5, 2008 10:45:43 PMSubject: Re: I dropped into Church last week.

I make it a point not to compartmentalize my faith. I want God in all parts of my life, not just when it's politically correct. I do not want to offend anyone either, but if this is a group where we exchange truthfully about our successes and failures, I would be wrong not to share this with you. I hope more of us will pray for help. Prayer works. I would hate to think we can discuss such personal problems with each other yet not share what is working because of reactions. I have been wanting to talk about this for a while but wasn't sure how to bring it up. With three little ones at home with me I never took the time to sit and write about it and I regret that. I am glad this can of worms has been opened.

I am Roman Catholic. Lately, I have been praying more specifically for God to help me with this "Thorn in my side." I have been asking Him to heal me and to help me carry my cross if that's what's best for me. I have been praying for ALL of US who suffer with this problem. God loves us all.

Lastly, through therapy, I have begun to unravel MY version of this complex problem. And I am doing better! In my case, it seems to have been "brought on" as a pre-teen living in a very stressful home with little regard for my personal dignity. I also have several family members with OCD and have been told that this problem falls within the OCD spectrum (in my case). So, between the stress and shame I felt and the tendency towards OCD this problem grew.

I hope I am not being misconstrued as "holier than thou." I just want to share what I know and help us all towards true peace. I am feeling so much better these days and I wish the same for all of you... "believers" or not.

God Bless,

Val

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[Guest guest]

How did it go with the peanut butter? ;o)

Re: I dropped into Church last week.

I make it a point not to compartmentalize my faith. I want God in all parts of my life, not just when it's politically correct. I do not want to offend anyone either, but if this is a group where we exchange truthfully about our successes and failures, I would be wrong not to share this with you. I hope more of us will pray for help. Prayer works. I would hate to think we can discuss such personal problems with each other yet not share what is working because of reactions. I have been wanting to talk about this for a while but wasn't sure how to bring it up. With three little ones at home with me I never took the time to sit and write about it and I regret that. I am glad this can of worms has been opened.

I am Roman Catholic. Lately, I have been praying more specifically for God to help me with this "Thorn in my side." I have been asking Him to heal me and to help me carry my cross if that's what's best for me. I have been praying for ALL of US who suffer with this problem. God loves us all.

Lastly, through therapy, I have begun to unravel MY version of this complex problem. And I am doing better! In my case, it seems to have been "brought on" as a pre-teen living in a very stressful home with little regard for my personal dignity. I also have several family members with OCD and have been told that this problem falls within the OCD spectrum (in my case). So, between the stress and shame I felt and the tendency towards OCD this problem grew.

I hope I am not being misconstrued as "holier than thou." I just want to share what I know and help us all towards true peace. I am feeling so much better these days and I wish the same for all of you... "believers" or not.

God Bless,

Val

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[Guest guest]

Vicky, are you apologising for expressing your feelings?

We are here to discuss and sometimes debate ideas and yes argue, but I say argue in the logical non-heated sense. We already feel bad about having 4s, but to say you feel like a dirt bag makes me despondant. Your input was expressed in a non-threatening fashion and I happen to agree with you.

We come here to get away from that feeling that we need to apologise for being who we are when it comes to the 4s.

I wish to ask, is this group a place where we come simply for medical answers, or is it a place we can come and feel supported and express our feelings in an environment where there are others that understand that hell we go through every day. I'm supposing the latter as when some of us merely vent it is not removed. This group has had many arguments about all topics that link to our 4s including racism, sexism and prejudice of other kinds, yet we always get passed it. The reason we get passed is because of people like yourself who make peace, I wish you didn't say sorry but I know exactly why you did, I admire your humbleness.

I was at a party tonight but I couldn't socialise as there was a man there cleaning his teeth with his tongue making those ugly sucking noises, I could have said to him "Shuut uuup" but then I would have got the "What's wrong with you look", then I would have to apologise, but who would have been wrong, him or me?

Vicky, you are not a dirt bag, that is a fact and anytime you need to say something that you might think is not clearly thought out, send it to me personally, my response will be rid of any guilt projection that you might otherwise feel

Subject: Re: Re: I dropped into Church last week.To: Soundsensitivity Received: Friday, 5 December, 2008, 6:44 AM

OK, I feel like kind of a dirt bag for saying I didn't want religion on here. I really just didn't want people arguing. I'm happy for anyone that can find "peace" with whatever.Sorry for my input that wasn't clearly thought out!!

From: lsalin <lsalinyahoo (DOT) com>To: Soundsensitivity@ yahoogroups. comSent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 9:26:14 AMSubject: Re: I dropped into Church last week.

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[Guest guest]

Peanut Butter, no good

I'm going for the Vegemite next

Subject: Re: Re: I dropped into Church last week.To: soundsensitivity Received: Saturday, 6 December, 2008, 8:45 PM

How did it go with the peanut butter?-

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[Guest guest]

I agree completely with lclifton - and I don't want to leave this group either.My problem is mainly with the Christian text being reproduced here. I think it is really inappropriate, and I would ask you to consider this:-Imagine how we would feel if members here reproduced literature from other religions or doctrines. It wouldn't be OK, and I don't think we would find comfort in being told to simply use the delete key. There is an important line to be drawn here to ensure all people with 4S feel welcome here.It would feel really different if someone just shared about a part of a religious text that was helpful to themselves, I'd be happy to hear about that, and it would remind me not to forget to engage in my own spiritual practices. But reproducing the whole text, quoting long slabs of the bible smacks of evangalism and recruiting as lclifton point out.But I think there is another issue here too. Religions, including Christianity are not a benign thing for so many people. Christians in particular need to be aware that many people in the western world (who are the majority of members in this group) have experienced real harm, distress even trauma, through their involvement with Christian institutions.I am sorry but if this becomes a regular topic, as much as I love this group, I am leaving. I hated the condesending remark about how we should just 'delete the topics that have church in them' and to not 'take the time to indirectly say how we feel about religion'. Here is as direct as I can get.. Keep your religion out of my face!!I want support for my hearing issues! It's not like people don't know that churches and bibles exist! Why don't you start a religious 4S group and spare the rest of us?I am angry at and hurt by christianity, it's not harmless. I will not make my case for that statement because this is not the appropriate place for that. Who cares about an occasional God Bless or whatever, but quoting the Bible? THE REST OF THE WORLD IS NOT ALL CHRISTIAN and this is not the place to 'share the gosphel' and do your recruiting!> > > > >> > > > > From: xl_cheese24 <xl_cheese24@ yahoo.com>> > > > > Subject: I dropped into Church last week.> > > > > To: Soundsensitivity@ yahoogroups. com> > > > > Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 8:44 AM> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > I went in years past, but never opened up to it. For whatever> > > > reason> > > > > it all seems to make sense now. I will say that all my> > reactions to> > > > > triggers sounds have been GREATLY reduced. I can still recognize> > > > the> > > > > sounds, but the negative thoughts and feelings pass very quick> > now.> > > > > I feel like I've been reset to a point to where I still have the> > > > > problem, but all the psychological junk attached to it has been> > > > > greatly suppressed.> > > > >> > > > > 1 Corinthians 10:13 (King Version)> > > > >> > > > > 13There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to> > man:> > > > > but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above> > > > that> > > > > ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to> > > > escape,> > > > > that ye may be able to bear it.> > > > >> > > > > 2 Corinthians 12:7-10 (King Version)> > > > >> > > > > 7And lest I should be exalted above measure through the> > abundance> > > > of> > > > > the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the> > > > > messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above> > > > > measure.> > > > > 8For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart> > > > > from me.> > > > > 9And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my> > > > > strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore> > will I> > > > > rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may> > rest> > > > > upon me.> > > > > 10Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in> > > > > necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake:> > for> > > > > when I am weak, then am I strong.> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite > > sites in one place.Try it now.> >> >>

[Guest guest]

Again, I have been feeling much better and attribute the improvement to asking God through prayer to help me with this problem. I believe that any of the great people in this group would do the same if they were being helped by a medication, meditation, or therapy. I am not going to say that prayer "might" work if I know it does. I am just being honest. I am sincerely sorry that anyone has been hurt by Christianity. I have only had wonderful experiences with the Catholic Church. The more I learn about it the more I love Catholicism. I realize this is not the forum for this discussion in its entirety and don't want to further upset anyone. Rather, I just wanted to share what is working for me and hope that all of you will find peace. If anyone wants to discuss this with me outside of this forum, you are welcome to contact me by email.

Val

[Guest guest]

I really liked your email. It is sad that it's not "appropriate" to discuss this kind of experience. Some of us started a prayer email (non denominational) group a while back. You can email me directly anything to do with church--because if 4s is ever going to get a cure I feel it is only because of prayer.

So email me directly. With so many different beliefs here, it's easy to offend others.

Thanks,

Kathy Howe

I dropped into Church last week.> To: Soundsensitivity@ yahoogroups. com> Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 8:44 AM> > > I went in years past, but never opened up to it. For whatever reason > it all seems to make sense now. I will say that all my reactions to > triggers sounds have been GREATLY reduced. I can still recognize the > sounds, but the negative thoughts and feelings pass very quick now. > I feel like I've been reset to a point to where I still have the > problem, but all the psychological junk attached to it has been > greatly suppressed.> > 1 Corinthians 10:13 (King Version)> > 13There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: > but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that > ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, > that ye may be able to bear it.> > 2 Corinthians 12:7-10 (King Version)> > 7And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of > the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the > messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above > measure. > 8For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart > from me. > 9And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my > strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I > rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest > upon me. > 10Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in > necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for > when I am weak, then am I strong.>

[Guest guest]

That was very well said Kathy. Thanks for your email )How is your daughter doing?andraTo: Soundsensitivity Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2008 4:47:11 AMSubject: RE: Re: I dropped into

Church last week.

I really liked your email. It is sad that it's not "appropriate" to discuss this kind of experience. Some of us started a prayer email (non denominational) group a while back. You can email me directly anything to do with church--because if 4s is ever going to get a cure I feel it is only because of prayer.

So email me directly. With so many different beliefs here, it's easy to offend others.

Thanks,

Kathy Howe

I dropped into Church last week.> To: Soundsensitivity@ yahoogroups. com> Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 8:44 AM> > > I went in years past, but never opened up to it. For whatever reason > it all seems to make sense now. I will say that all my reactions to > triggers sounds have been GREATLY reduced. I can still recognize the > sounds, but the negative thoughts and feelings pass very quick now. > I feel like I've been reset to a point to where I still have the > problem, but all the psychological junk attached to it has been > greatly suppressed.> > 1 Corinthians 10:13 (King Version)> > 13There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: > but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that > ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, > that ye may be able to bear it.> > 2 Corinthians 12:7-10 (King Version)> > 7And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of > the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the > messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above > measure. > 8For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart > from me. > 9And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my > strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I > rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest > upon me. > 10Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in > necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for > when I am weak, then am I strong.>

[Guest guest]

It is sad that it's not " appropriate " to discuss

> this kind of experience.

Hi Kathy,

I was the one who first used the words " not appropriate " in this

thread. But I only meant that it is not appropriate to reproduce

*religious texts* here.

I agree prayer is helpful; my own spiritual beliefs have helped me

cope with living with 4S, and although my beliefs have things in

common with many other religions, I don't want to come to the group

one day and find slabs of The Koran, The Bible, etc etc here.

There has also been a lot of media coverage of people have been

traumatised through their participation in the church; I believe this

problem is quite widespread, so it doesn't hurt to be mindful of it.

Ingrid.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I agree that it is sad we can

share a CD or device or person who helped us personally but cannot

share that prayer has helped. I would like to hear of people's

experiences with prayer myself so thank you for sharing. As with all

of the other experiences people share, I can decide if it will help

me or not.

>

> Again, I have been feeling much better and attribute the

improvement to asking God through prayer to help me with this

problem. I believe that any of the great people in this group would

do the same if they were being helped by a medication, meditation, or

therapy. I am not going to say that prayer " might " work if I know

it does. I am just being honest. I am sincerely sorry that anyone

has been hurt by Christianity. I have only had wonderful experiences

with the Catholic Church. The more I learn about it the more I love

Catholicism. I realize this is not the forum for this discussion in

its entirety and don't want to further upset anyone. Rather, I just

wanted to share what is working for me and hope that all of you will

find peace. If anyone wants to discuss this with me outside of this

forum, you are welcome to contact me by email.

>

> Val

>

[Guest guest]

I agree. And it is very sad that religion has caused so much suffering.

Thanks,

Kathy

-----Original Message-----From: Soundsensitivity [mailto:Soundsensitivity ]On Behalf Of ingrid.spielmanSent: Monday, December 08, 2008 6:00 PMTo: Soundsensitivity Subject: Re: I dropped into Church last week.

It is sad that it's not "appropriate" to discuss> this kind of experience. Hi Kathy,I was the one who first used the words "not appropriate" in thisthread. But I only meant that it is not appropriate to reproduce*religious texts* here.I agree prayer is helpful; my own spiritual beliefs have helped mecope with living with 4S, and although my beliefs have things incommon with many other religions, I don't want to come to the groupone day and find slabs of The Koran, The Bible, etc etc here. There has also been a lot of media coverage of people have beentraumatised through their participation in the church; I believe thisproblem is quite widespread, so it doesn't hurt to be mindful of it.Ingrid.

[Guest guest]

While I have been fairly noisy in this thread it's obvious that there are people that do not get what my point is, our brains are on a totally different wave length. After all that I have said I'm sure it would surprise people to know that I actually go to church alot and still play the organ for the church choir every two weeks. I even still attend bible studies and I am not trouble maker but rather someone that poses topics of interesting discussion on knowing what you believe and why. I reiterate that when I stopped praying my 4s improved because of my different attitude and clearer mind so I know "this" works for me. But like I said which people don't listen to, some things are merely personal experience and not factually appropriate for everyone. I must say that I meditate alot, this also helps my 4s, while I call it meditation the religious

call it centering prayer, so maybe some things are just a label when in essence they could be exactly the same thing

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