Re: mental

[Guest guest]

Daily I feel "mental".....now I would broadcast myself anywhere if we could just find a cure!!!

To: Soundsensitivity Sent: Monday, November 3, 2008 12:10:37 PMSubject: mental

I find it interesting that so many of us (including ME) say the exact same things upon finding this group. 1) I'm so relieved to find out that I'm not the only one with this problem. And 2) I'm so happy to know that I'm NOT crazy.Well, the more I think about it, share stories, try treatments, and experience my own daily dilemmas and horrors invoked by 4S, I think that the cause of 4S is not likely "purely physical." And by that, I mean, non-psychological. In fact, I'm starting to think it could quite possibly be a mental disorder. I keep thinking -- if it was just physical, reactionary, involuntary and not programmed or behavioral, why would we not feel the same rage when we make the noise and when only certain noises are made? It's obviously an association thing. We associate certain noises made by OTHERS with lack of control, and the bad feelings that come along with that. These noises

might trigger underlying bad memories, etc. Who knows? But here's a little reality check:------------ ---------Mental disorders are common in the United States and internationally. An estimated 26.2 percent of Americans ages 18 and older — about one in four adults — suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year. When applied to the 2004 U.S. Census residential population estimate for ages 18 and older, this figure translates to 57.7 million people. Even though mental disorders are widespread in the population, the main burden of illness is concentrated in a much smaller proportion — about 6 percent, or 1 in 17 — who suffer from a serious mental illness. In addition, mental disorders are the leading cause of disability in the U.S. and Canada for ages 15-44. Many people suffer from more than one mental disorder at a given time. Nearly half (45 percent) of those with any mental

disorder meet criteria for 2 or more disorders, with severity strongly related to comorbidity.------------ --------- --You can find the full article at: www.nimh.nih. gov/health/ topics/statistic s.After reading this paragraph, I can't help but ask the question: If millions and millions of people suffer from mental illness, isn't it possible that all 800+ of us in this group ARE actually suffering from some form of mental illness? I know that some of us are willing to consider that. I know I am. I just want answers, no matter what they entail.I don't mean to be a downer or anything, but I did think it was worth mentioning. Even though no one can diagnose us with any "existing" mental illness, that doesn't mean it isn't a mental illness. Because of the stupid stigma attached to mental illness, no one wants to even consider that our brains might be affected, that we might actually

one day be classified as "mentally ill." But if we are, and we can find some treatment for it, I would embrace that fully, even if it means being the bearer of such misguided monikers as bonkers, nutcase, psycho, etc.I think this condition is complicated, and we all know it has something to do with the wiring of our brains. Let's just keep our minds open to all possibilities and not be afraid if it really does turn out to be a "mental illness." I love you all, and I love myself, and I love my nephew who has schizophrenia. But I've seen the way he has been treated throughout his life because of his illness. And while I don't want that for any of us, I do want to keep our eyes open so we can find a treatment. To me,the name "mental illness" is just another "physical illness," but affects the brain instead of another organ in our bodies. In being honest and straight about what might be

causing this, accept the eventual diagnosis without shame or judgment of each other and embrace the cure, perhaps we can approach that hurdle of discovery and remove the stigma of mental illness once and for all.Sorry, I know I probably went on and on here, but I truly felt this needed to be said. I hope I haven't offended anyone or bummed anyone out. I know that together, along with any professionals we can interest in helping us, the media, etc., we ARE going to figure out the cause of 4S and find a cure.

[Guest guest]

Carri , I think you are absolutely right I have asked the ? here about it being part of or linked to ocd, but did not get much response from anyone. My daughter is 11 and suffers from adhd and now ocd with 4's coming into the picture around the time ocd started. On top of that I too have ocd and 4's but much milder then my daughter but I am on medicine for my ocd witch I think takes the edge off of the 4's. I am considering trying her on ocd meds, but trying everything else first like white noise she can use on her I Pod in class when it gets to much for her. But I am not shutting the door to meds if it is going to damage her life any more greatly than it already has. And yes they are finding out that most mental illness also has cormorbit component then realized and I really can see it in my daughter and myself, when you read about the siptomes of different disorders it like, ya a little of this and a little of that describes me. Thank you so much for bring this out here because I feel the same way that no one wants to look at this as a mental disorder which I absolutely think it is. Thanks da

I find it interesting that so many of us (including ME) say the exact same things upon finding this group. 1) I'm so relieved to find out that I'm not the only one with this problem. And 2) I'm so happy to

know that I'm NOT crazy.Well, the more I think about it, share stories, try treatments, and experience my own daily dilemmas and horrors invoked by 4S, I think that the cause of 4S is not likely " purely physical. " And by that, I

mean, non-psychological. In fact, I'm starting to think it could quite possibly be a mental disorder. I keep thinking -- if it was just physical, reactionary, involuntary and not programmed or behavioral, why would we not feel the same rage when we make the

noise and when only certain noises are made? It's obviously an association thing. We associate certain noises made by OTHERS with lack of control, and the bad feelings that come along with that. These noises might trigger underlying bad memories, etc. Who knows?

But here's a little reality check:---------------------Mental disorders are common in the United States and internationally. An estimated 26.2 percent of Americans ages 18 and older — about one in four adults — suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given

year. When applied to the 2004 U.S. Census residential population estimate for ages 18 and older, this figure translates to 57.7 million people. Even though mental disorders are widespread in the population, the main burden of illness is concentrated in a much

smaller proportion — about 6 percent, or 1 in 17 — who suffer from a serious mental illness. In addition, mental disorders are the leading cause of disability in the U.S. and Canada for ages 15-44. Many people suffer from more than one mental disorder at a given time.

Nearly half (45 percent) of those with any mental disorder meet criteria for 2 or more disorders, with severity strongly related to comorbidity.-----------------------You can find the full article at:

www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/statistics.After reading this paragraph, I can't help but ask the question: If millions and millions of people suffer from mental illness, isn't it

possible that all 800+ of us in this group ARE actually suffering from some form of mental illness? I know that some of us are willing to consider that. I know I am. I just want answers, no matter what they entail.

I don't mean to be a downer or anything, but I did think it was worth mentioning. Even though no one can diagnose us with any " existing " mental illness, that doesn't mean it isn't a mental illness. Because

of the stupid stigma attached to mental illness, no one wants to even consider that our brains might be affected, that we might actually one day be classified as " mentally ill. " But if we are, and we can

find some treatment for it, I would embrace that fully, even if it means being the bearer of such misguided monikers as bonkers, nutcase, psycho, etc.I think this condition is complicated, and we all know it has

something to do with the wiring of our brains. Let's just keep our minds open to all possibilities and not be afraid if it really does turn out to be a " mental illness. " I love you all, and I love

myself, and I love my nephew who has schizophrenia. But I've seen the way he has been treated throughout his life because of his illness. And while I don't want that for any of us, I do want to keep our eyes open so we can find a treatment.

To me,the name " mental illness " is just another " physical illness, " but affects the brain instead of another organ in our bodies. In being honest and straight about what might be causing this, accept

the eventual diagnosis without shame or judgment of each other and embrace the cure, perhaps we can approach that hurdle of discovery and remove the stigma of mental illness once and for all.Sorry, I know I probably went on and on here, but I truly felt this

needed to be said. I hope I haven't offended anyone or bummed anyone out. I know that together, along with any professionals we can interest in helping us, the media, etc., we ARE going to figure out the cause of 4S and find a cure.

[Guest guest]

The way I see it is this: I think of mental problems as being psychological. And I think something is psychological if it was a response to one's environment, whether conscious or unconscious. These would be learned responses from experiences in life.

The problem with 4s being called a psychological problem just doesn't make sense to me. Why does it seem to come on at the same age, and also seem to be genetic?

But if you think of it as being a malfunction within the brain like an OCD, then it would be considered neurological, not psychological. This would be a physical problem. I think that most OCDs are a neurological malfunction, however some can be brought on by psychological reasons. For instance, my friend's car was broken into and her purse was stolen. Now she has to always check her car door several times to make sure it is locked. She has developed a mild OCD because of her experience. But many OCDs that are genetic are not a learned response, they are the malfunctioning within the firing of neurons in the brain.

So I think it is all semantics: If you call neurological problems "mental problems," then you would consider 4s to be a "mental problem." But I would consider neurological problems to be a physical problem with the brain. I guess it is just how you think of it.

I don't care what people call it, as long as they find out what is causing it, and find a treatment for it.

But I definitely don't think that my daughter "learned" this response to her environment. Otherwise, someone who has been in psychotherapy for many years would have figured out a way to "unlearn" it. I definitely think that 4s is a malfunction either in the auditory system, or neurological system, but I think that with many years of trying to cope with it you start to have a lot of psychological responses that form because of it. So it becomes so tangled together that it's hard to figure out the root. But I think that once you find the core problem, then you can start to cope with all the other overlaid problems.

[Guest guest]

But aren't most mental illnesses (OCD, bi-polar, schizophrenia) now seen as

largely

neurological in origin? Even the word often used to describe such behavior -

neurotic -

has its roots there. Obviously there are cases of " situational " mental illness

brought on by

extreme trauma (sexual abuse, eg) - but there are genetic links with most of

these so-

called " psychological " problems. I definitely think that 4S is " related " in

some way to OCD,

claustrophobia, maybe autism and Tourette's as well. Somewhere on that enormous

spectrum of neurological disorders is our own little 4S corner. . . I think that

finding out

we have company there is what most people are responding to when they express

relief

here at " not being crazy. "

Kate in NY

>

>

> The way I see it is this: I think of mental problems as being

> psychological. And I think something is psychological if it was a response

> to one's environment, whether conscious or unconscious. These would be

> learned responses from experiences in life.

>

> The problem with 4s being called a psychological problem just doesn't make

> sense to me. Why does it seem to come on at the same age, and also seem to

> be genetic?

>

> But if you think of it as being a malfunction within the brain like an

> OCD, then it would be considered neurological, not psychological. This

> would be a physical problem. I think that most OCDs are a neurological

> malfunction, however some can be brought on by psychological reasons. For

> instance, my friend's car was broken into and her purse was stolen. Now she

> has to always check her car door several times to make sure it is locked.

> She has developed a mild OCD because of her experience. But many OCDs that

> are genetic are not a learned response, they are the malfunctioning within

> the firing of neurons in the brain.

>

> So I think it is all semantics: If you call neurological problems " mental

> problems, " then you would consider 4s to be a " mental problem. " But I would

> consider neurological problems to be a physical problem with the brain. I

> guess it is just how you think of it.

>

> I don't care what people call it, as long as they find out what is causing

> it, and find a treatment for it.

>

> But I definitely don't think that my daughter " learned " this response to

> her environment. Otherwise, someone who has been in psychotherapy for many

> years would have figured out a way to " unlearn " it. I definitely think that

> 4s is a malfunction either in the auditory system, or neurological system,

> but I think that with many years of trying to cope with it you start to have

> a lot of psychological responses that form because of it. So it becomes so

> tangled together that it's hard to figure out the root. But I think that

> once you find the core problem, then you can start to cope with all the

> other overlaid problems.

>

[Guest guest]

Kathy:

Well said! I agree with you about how we develop psychological

and/or behavioral problems as a result of the constant onslaught of

4S-related noise triggers. Over time there is this tightly woven web

surrounding what causes this and it becomes difficult to see the root

cause.

BTW, from what I've read, the average onset of many mental illnesses

occurs at certain ages. Some mental illnesses show themselves from

birth, but others show their first symptoms at specific ages: Manic

depression (early 20's), schizophrenia (men 18 / women 25), OCD (boys

6-15/girls 20-30), etc.

And genetics is becoming a huge factor in early diagnosis of all

illness, including mental illness. Researchers are finding more and

more links to certain genes for mental illness. That doesn't mean

that if one person in a family has bipolar disorder, so will the

others. But they've seen a " vulnerability " to certain mental illness

in a family. One person's symptoms may be full-blown while another

just might have the tendency but never show symptoms. It's something

worth being vigilant about. Just like if you knew that heart disease

ran in your family, you'd be more careful not to smoke and to get

more exercise, etc.

Brain disorders, like heart disease and diabetes, are legitimate

medical illnesses. Research shows there are genetic and biological

causes for psychiatric disorders, and they can be treated

effectively. Let's just hope they find one for 4S.

It's so great that we can all support each other and talk about the

in's and out's and experiences we've all had. Personally, I've

always been interested in the way mental illness is perceived, and

how is it really different from any other illness we suffer from...

>

>

> The way I see it is this: I think of mental problems as being

> psychological. And I think something is psychological if it was a

response

> to one's environment, whether conscious or unconscious. These

would be

> learned responses from experiences in life.

>

> The problem with 4s being called a psychological problem just

doesn't make

> sense to me. Why does it seem to come on at the same age, and also

seem to

> be genetic?

>

> But if you think of it as being a malfunction within the brain

like an

> OCD, then it would be considered neurological, not psychological.

This

> would be a physical problem. I think that most OCDs are a

neurological

> malfunction, however some can be brought on by psychological

reasons. For

> instance, my friend's car was broken into and her purse was

stolen. Now she

> has to always check her car door several times to make sure it is

locked.

> She has developed a mild OCD because of her experience. But many

OCDs that

> are genetic are not a learned response, they are the malfunctioning

within

> the firing of neurons in the brain.

>

> So I think it is all semantics: If you call neurological

problems " mental

> problems, " then you would consider 4s to be a " mental problem. "

But I would

> consider neurological problems to be a physical problem with the

brain. I

> guess it is just how you think of it.

>

> I don't care what people call it, as long as they find out what

is causing

> it, and find a treatment for it.

>

> But I definitely don't think that my daughter " learned " this

response to

> her environment. Otherwise, someone who has been in psychotherapy

for many

> years would have figured out a way to " unlearn " it. I definitely

think that

> 4s is a malfunction either in the auditory system, or neurological

system,

> but I think that with many years of trying to cope with it you

start to have

> a lot of psychological responses that form because of it. So it

becomes so

> tangled together that it's hard to figure out the root. But I

think that

> once you find the core problem, then you can start to cope with all

the

> other overlaid problems.

>

[Guest guest]

Kate:

Speaking of Tourette's syndrome -- I was just telling my boyfriend

that I thought 4S was similar in that both involve issues of

control. I watched a documentary on Tourette's recently which showed

how those afflicted with it HAD to react whenever they accidentally

touched something (ie. brushed against a side table).They felt an

overwhelming compulsion to punch or kick whatever it was

that " touched them, " as if to regain control or get back at it. I

immediately thought of the way we all feel when we want to or even DO

yell at someone making noise or mimic the sound they make to feel a

sense of control over our environment has been regained.

> >

> >

> > The way I see it is this: I think of mental problems as being

> > psychological. And I think something is psychological if it was

a response

> > to one's environment, whether conscious or unconscious. These

would be

> > learned responses from experiences in life.

> >

> > The problem with 4s being called a psychological problem just

doesn't make

> > sense to me. Why does it seem to come on at the same age, and

also seem to

> > be genetic?

> >

> > But if you think of it as being a malfunction within the brain

like an

> > OCD, then it would be considered neurological, not

psychological. This

> > would be a physical problem. I think that most OCDs are a

neurological

> > malfunction, however some can be brought on by psychological

reasons. For

> > instance, my friend's car was broken into and her purse was

stolen. Now she

> > has to always check her car door several times to make sure it is

locked.

> > She has developed a mild OCD because of her experience. But many

OCDs that

> > are genetic are not a learned response, they are the

malfunctioning within

> > the firing of neurons in the brain.

> >

> > So I think it is all semantics: If you call neurological

problems " mental

> > problems, " then you would consider 4s to be a " mental problem. "

But I would

> > consider neurological problems to be a physical problem with the

brain. I

> > guess it is just how you think of it.

> >

> > I don't care what people call it, as long as they find out what

is causing

> > it, and find a treatment for it.

> >

> > But I definitely don't think that my daughter " learned " this

response to

> > her environment. Otherwise, someone who has been in

psychotherapy for many

> > years would have figured out a way to " unlearn " it. I definitely

think that

> > 4s is a malfunction either in the auditory system, or

neurological system,

> > but I think that with many years of trying to cope with it you

start to have

> > a lot of psychological responses that form because of it. So it

becomes so

> > tangled together that it's hard to figure out the root. But I

think that

> > once you find the core problem, then you can start to cope with

all the

> > other overlaid problems.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with you that this is a neurological problem - something that is wired (miswired really) into our brains. I do not think the cause of 4s is psychological, although their are psychological ramifications due to suffering our symptoms. However mental illness usually does have to do with mis-wired brains and brain chemistry - depression and addiction are both good examples.An interesting example of why I strongly believe 4s is a predisposed neurological problem is as follows: When I was a young girl I would not let anyone look at my feet - a very adverse reaction if I was forced to bear my souls. My older son (the one who

also has 4s like me) has the same phobia with the feet. His problem started at a young age and he had no knowledge of my history with the feet. Strange coincidence or predisposition?Subject: RE: mentalTo: Soundsensitivity Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 3:09 PM

The way I see it is this: I think of mental problems as being psychological. And I think something is psychological if it was a response to one's environment, whether conscious or unconscious. These would be learned responses from experiences in life.

The problem with 4s being called a psychological problem just doesn't make sense to me. Why does it seem to come on at the same age, and also seem to be genetic?

But if you think of it as being a malfunction within the brain like an OCD, then it would be considered neurological, not psychological. This would be a physical problem. I think that most OCDs are a neurological malfunction, however some can be brought on by psychological reasons. For instance, my friend's car was broken into and her purse was stolen. Now she has to always check her car door several times to make sure it is locked. She has developed a mild OCD because of her experience. But many OCDs that are genetic are not a learned response, they are the malfunctioning within the firing of neurons in the brain.

So I think it is all semantics: If you call neurological problems "mental problems," then you would consider 4s to be a "mental problem." But I would consider neurological problems to be a physical problem with the brain. I guess it is just how you think of it.

I don't care what people call it, as long as they find out what is causing it, and find a treatment for it.

But I definitely don't think that my daughter "learned" this response to her environment. Otherwise, someone who has been in psychotherapy for many years would have figured out a way to "unlearn" it. I definitely think that 4s is a malfunction either in the auditory system, or neurological system, but I think that with many years of trying to cope with it you start to have a lot of psychological responses that form because of it. So it becomes so tangled together that it's hard to figure out the root. But I think that once you find the core problem, then you can start to cope with all the other overlaid problems.

[Guest guest]

>

> Subject: RE: mental

> To: Soundsensitivity

> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 3:09 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>  

>

> The

> way I see it is this:  I think of mental problems as being

> psychological.  And I think something is psychological if it was a

> response to one's environment, whether conscious or

> unconscious.  These would be learned responses from experiences

> in life.

>  

> The

> problem with 4s being called a psychological problem just doesn't make sense

> to me.  Why does it seem to come on at the same age, and also seem

> to be genetic?  

>  

> But

> if you think of it as being a malfunction within the brain like an OCD, then

> it would be considered neurological, not psychological.  This would be a

> physical problem.  I think that most OCDs are a neurological malfunction,

> however some can be brought on by psychological reasons.  For instance,

> my friend's car was broken into and her purse was stolen.  Now she has to

> always check her car door several times to make sure it is locked.  She

> has developed a mild OCD because of her experience.  But many OCDs

> that are genetic are not a learned response, they are the malfunctioning

> within the firing of neurons in the brain.  

>

> So I

> think it is all semantics:  If you call neurological problems

> " mental problems, " then you would consider 4s to be a " mental problem. "  

> But I would consider neurological problems to be a physical problem with

> the brain.  I guess it is just how you think of it.

>  

> I

> don't care what people call it, as long as they find out what is causing it,

> and find a treatment for it.

>  

> But

> I definitely don't think that my daughter " learned " this response to her

> environment.  Otherwise, someone who has been in psychotherapy for

> many years would have figured out a way to " unlearn " it.  I

> definitely think that 4s is a malfunction either in the auditory system,

> or neurological system, but I think that with many years of trying to cope

> with it you start to have a lot of psychological responses that form

> because of it.  So it becomes so tangled together that it's hard to

> figure out the root.  But I think that once you find the core problem,

> then you can start to cope with all the other overlaid

> problems.

>  

>  

>  

>  

>  

>

[Guest guest]

--

I like how you call it a "brain disorder." I think this is a better label for 4s than a "mental disorder." I think because mental disorders have the connotation that it is somehow caused by for instance a bad childhood experience. The doctor we saw for our referral letter said that she feels it is totally caused by an early childhood experience--she is totally a believer in Freud. I just think that is ridiculous. I don't think that all of you had some traumatic experience in your childhood or some kind of conditioning that caused your brain to not like certain sounds. I could understand if a child was beaten by an abuser who chewed gum all the time--this could definitely have adverse psychological ramifications. But 4s seems to be a genetic neurological "brain disorder" as you so well put it.

Anyone who hears "mental disorder" tends to think that it is something that psychiatry can help, which we have seen doesn't help--at least not significantly.

I would love to know if deep brain stimulation could block the rage response that 4sers experience. They use it to block the extreme OCD signals and it works amazingly well. I saw a 20/20 on a woman who could do nothing but check her stove over and over. She was held hostage to this task. But then they put an electrode into just the right spot of her brain and blocked the impulses that caused this desire, and she could lead a normal life. Plus, she could always tell when her battery was getting low because she started feeling the need to check her stove again. I think that is fascinating. If they could find the right spot to place the wire to block the response in 4s patients, I think it could work. The fact that they can do this in OCD patients just goes to show how physical these kinds of problems are. THE BRAIN IS BIZARRE!!

Thanks for the discussion.

Kathy

-----Original Message-----From: Soundsensitivity [mailto:Soundsensitivity ]On Behalf Of Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 4:36 PMTo: Soundsensitivity Subject: Re: mental

Kathy:Well said! I agree with you about how we develop psychological and/or behavioral problems as a result of the constant onslaught of 4S-related noise triggers. Over time there is this tightly woven web surrounding what causes this and it becomes difficult to see the root cause. BTW, from what I've read, the average onset of many mental illnesses occurs at certain ages. Some mental illnesses show themselves from birth, but others show their first symptoms at specific ages: Manic depression (early 20's), schizophrenia (men 18 / women 25), OCD (boys 6-15/girls 20-30), etc. And genetics is becoming a huge factor in early diagnosis of all illness, including mental illness. Researchers are finding more and more links to certain genes for mental illness. That doesn't mean that if one person in a family has bipolar disorder, so will the others. But they've seen a "vulnerability" to certain mental illness in a family. One person's symptoms may be full-blown while another just might have the tendency but never show symptoms. It's something worth being vigilant about. Just like if you knew that heart disease ran in your family, you'd be more careful not to smoke and to get more exercise, etc.Brain disorders, like heart disease and diabetes, are legitimate medical illnesses. Research shows there are genetic and biological causes for psychiatric disorders, and they can be treated effectively. Let's just hope they find one for 4S.It's so great that we can all support each other and talk about the in's and out's and experiences we've all had. Personally, I've always been interested in the way mental illness is perceived, and how is it really different from any other illness we suffer from...>> > The way I see it is this: I think of mental problems as being> psychological. And I think something is psychological if it was a response> to one's environment, whether conscious or unconscious. These would be> learned responses from experiences in life.> > The problem with 4s being called a psychological problem just doesn't make> sense to me. Why does it seem to come on at the same age, and also seem to> be genetic?> > But if you think of it as being a malfunction within the brain like an> OCD, then it would be considered neurological, not psychological. This> would be a physical problem. I think that most OCDs are a neurological> malfunction, however some can be brought on by psychological reasons. For> instance, my friend's car was broken into and her purse was stolen. Now she> has to always check her car door several times to make sure it is locked.> She has developed a mild OCD because of her experience. But many OCDs that> are genetic are not a learned response, they are the malfunctioning within> the firing of neurons in the brain.> > So I think it is all semantics: If you call neurological problems "mental> problems," then you would consider 4s to be a "mental problem." But I would> consider neurological problems to be a physical problem with the brain. I> guess it is just how you think of it.> > I don't care what people call it, as long as they find out what is causing> it, and find a treatment for it.> > But I definitely don't think that my daughter "learned" this response to> her environment. Otherwise, someone who has been in psychotherapy for many> years would have figured out a way to "unlearn" it. I definitely think that> 4s is a malfunction either in the auditory system, or neurological system,> but I think that with many years of trying to cope with it you start to have> a lot of psychological responses that form because of it. So it becomes so> tangled together that it's hard to figure out the root. But I think that> once you find the core problem, then you can start to cope with all the> other overlaid problems.>