Re: Re Anthroposophic Medicine

[Guest guest]

---http://www.newtrendspublishing.com/4Fold/index.html

There a couple of chapters of Tom Cowan's book the fourfoldpath to

healing. He is a follower of Steiner and member of the Weston price

foundation.

I like it but am bemused by the lack of any discussion of dental

issues, which I think is crucial. Why dont these people read Weston

Price!

Even the Price-Pottenger Foundation apparently never read his dental

works until 1992!

www.paracelsus.ch are influenced by Steiner but do consider dental

issues. They have an american network as well.

I have never read Steiner but believe his ideas do need to be

critically examined. I dont believe in hero worship or cults.

Purification is fine but you need to remove what is dead thus the

need for a dentist!

Sunny thoughts,

Wallace

In infections , Colourbleu

<colourbleu@...> wrote:

>

> Im a big steiner fan, but i did not go to a Steiner school, in fact

i

> went to one of the very worst, thus the admiration. However, given

what

> i know, id expect that the vast majority of bad Dr. I have seen

went to

> schools where they were also not taught to think. I would hope that

a

> Steiner trained Dr. would be more open to offering long term multi

abx,

> AF, if they had the knowledge and experience. Alas I see all too

many

> who are on the fringes of 'alternative' who have IMO mistakenly

cast

> the allopathic system in the same bucket as allopathic drugs, which

> clearly are not one and the same. For the allopathic systems

> institutional resistance to 'sound treatment' there have and are

some

> of the most important thinkers nestled in amongst this quagmire. In

the

> alternative world however, you are much more than likely to find

> 'Steiner kids' where there is little to offer except so-called

miracle

> cures that are more than likely snake oil salesmen in cloak.

>

> The problem I think is not a result of what one would expect,

rather it

> is caused by the endocrine system that contains the business world.

I

> am not a big fan of Ayn Rand and I realize all too well her faults,

but

> IMO she correctly depicted the cause of the travesties that we are

> victim. In her theory, the problem is caused by distortion in

markets

> (in this case by government sanctioned approval and license) of

Drs..

> In Ayn Rands perfect world 'lassie fair' capitalism (not to be

confused

> with the so-called capitalism that we are living in) given her idea

of

> 'lassie fair' meant in practice a world without government as we

know

> it, that respect and earned admiration would result in a class

system

> of Drs. who would be elevated by way of their success in the market

> rather than as is now, their ability to pass exams.

>

> bleu

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> On 21 Jun 2006, at 16:40, Penny Houle wrote:

>

> > Rudolph Steiner was the founder of the Waldorf

> > schools, wasn't he? Those are amazing schools, so it

> > makes sense that his approach to medicine would be the

> > same.

> >

> > penny

> >

> > --- Per Sjoholm <pts2grps@...>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > I have been treated at http://www.vidarkliniken.se/

> > > they practictise

> > > Anthroposophical Medicine as well as

> > > school med(EBM).

> > >

> > > ...outlined by Rudolf Steiner.

> > >

> > > The result is an integrated image of the whole human

> > > being in illness

> > > and in health. This makes it possible to have a

> > > holistic but also

> > > rational approach to physiology, pathology and

> > > therapy.

> > > /Per

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It doesn't seem that that experiment would be too hard to replicate.

Were other labs not able to duplicate his results- or did they just

scoff at it and not try?

Barb

> > > >

> > > > > I have been treated at http://www.vidarkliniken.se/

> > > > > they practictise

> > > > > Anthroposophical Medicine as well as

> > > > > school med(EBM).

> > > > >

> > > > > ...outlined by Rudolf Steiner.

> > > > >

> > > > > The result is an integrated image of the whole human

> > > > > being in illness

> > > > > and in health. This makes it possible to have a

> > > > > holistic but also

> > > > > rational approach to physiology, pathology and

> > > > > therapy.

> > > > > /Per

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Interesting thoughts Bleu. I'm getting to be a bit of a libertarian

myself, other than wanting govts to protect lots of unaltered land

(tho the ultimate road to conservation is population control, and

affluence seems to be what causes populations to flatline as the

native populations of USA and Europe have done).

I seem to vaguely recall that the history of licensure in medicine in

the USA anyway (incidentally are you from here or are you French?) is

shorter than one might think. I cant find anything on it in wiki

right now. Anyway, I think in the USA it was a jungle out there back

before licensure. There was definitely some BS. The price of any

libertarian reform is likely to be paid in large part by people who

get things wrong. But theres a certain naturalness to that and it

also might help train people to better instincts and behaviors.

Theres also tons of BS out there now anyway in spite of licensure.

<colourbleu@...> wrote:

>

> Im a big steiner fan, but i did not go to a Steiner school, in fact

i

> went to one of the very worst, thus the admiration. However, given

what

> i know, id expect that the vast majority of bad Dr. I have seen

went to

> schools where they were also not taught to think. I would hope that

a

> Steiner trained Dr. would be more open to offering long term multi

abx,

> AF, if they had the knowledge and experience. Alas I see all too

many

> who are on the fringes of 'alternative' who have IMO mistakenly

cast

> the allopathic system in the same bucket as allopathic drugs, which

> clearly are not one and the same. For the allopathic systems

> institutional resistance to 'sound treatment' there have and are

some

> of the most important thinkers nestled in amongst this quagmire. In

the

> alternative world however, you are much more than likely to find

> 'Steiner kids' where there is little to offer except so-called

miracle

> cures that are more than likely snake oil salesmen in cloak.

>

> The problem I think is not a result of what one would expect,

rather it

> is caused by the endocrine system that contains the business world.

I

> am not a big fan of Ayn Rand and I realize all too well her faults,

but

> IMO she correctly depicted the cause of the travesties that we are

> victim. In her theory, the problem is caused by distortion in

markets

> (in this case by government sanctioned approval and license) of

Drs..

> In Ayn Rands perfect world 'lassie fair' capitalism (not to be

confused

> with the so-called capitalism that we are living in) given her idea

of

> 'lassie fair' meant in practice a world without government as we

know

> it, that respect and earned admiration would result in a class

system

> of Drs. who would be elevated by way of their success in the market

> rather than as is now, their ability to pass exams.

>

> bleu

>

[Guest guest]

Is this written up in full detail somewhere?

>

> Dr. Price implanted the teeth under the skin on their backs. And they

developed the same illness symptoms of the humans who had the teeth

removed.

>

> penny

>

[Guest guest]

---A bacterial infection in your jaw requires surgery doesn't it?

However its noticable that Dr Issels, Klinghardt, Rau etc do other

things alongside surgery. Post surgical healing is obviously a

problem or the surgery eventually may need to be redone.

Even Weston Price gave patients Parathyroid,autogenous vaccine etc So

dental surgery is not a cure all in itself.

So few dentists can read a panoramic X ray that I do believe a

Cavitat scan is useful. But of course you have to discuss this with

the elusive good dentist. It will mean losing teeth in most cases.

Bad Surgery can spread the infection but doing nothing the infection

will gradually spread as well.

Of course there are bad stories out there, surgery is never pleasant

and some people change their minds half way through

The roots of disease by Kulacs/ Levy is worth reading.

sunny thoughts,

Wallace

In infections , Penny Houle

<pennyhoule@...> wrote:

>

> P.S. Part of the problem here is that the people who've paid

attention to Dr. Price's work actually don't understand bacteria all

that well either and think it can be treated with alternative

therapies like garlic and herbs. So they contribute to the

credibility problem more than they help.

>

> Mainstream dentistry has systematically denied the existence of

focal infections and it's only very recently that they have

acknowledged that bacteria can continue to live on the nutrients

inside the dentin of the teeth, even after disinfecting treatments.

Dentists continue to believe that " sterilizing " the tooth and root

canaling it is all that's needed. They ignore the evidence that not

only can bacteria survive quite nicely in the dentin, they can spread

through the tubules and gain access to other vulnerable parts of the

body. It's frustrating. Finding a dentist who subscribes to Price's

theories who will also treat appropriately with effective enough

antimicrobials is almost impossible.

>

> A friend of mine was a dentist himself who figured this all out

too late and died due to one of these infections going to his brain

after " cavitation " surgery. He couldn't get his peers to listen to

him and made the mistake of going to one of the famous quacks who

didn't treat properly. He put it all together too late. Tony was

actually the one pleading with us to do whatever we could to help

him, saying Dr. Odell was going to die if we didn't. It was a

travesty because he actually started doing better on the abx, his

seizures had all but stopped, but unfortunately he overdid it once he

started feeling better, and had one more seizure he died. What's

really crazy and maddening about this was how hard it was for Dr.

Odell, a well liked dentist himself, to get help from his mainstream

peers. If even a dentist can't get his own peers to treat him, it's

hard to imagine us getting better care.

>

> One of the things Dr. Price did was very clearly show how

resistant the 20 organisms he identified in teeth are to

antimicrobials. As Dr. Meinig says,

>

> " Your dentist may think that the disinfecting treatment he

uses during

> root canal therapy would cause the death of these bacteria.

Treatment

> does kill most bacteria in the root canal, but Price found that not

one

> of the over 100 disinfectants he studied was capable of penetrating

> the tubules. The same holds true for antibiotics today. "

>

> This is why knowing I have a dx'd bacterial infection in my jaw

is so disheartening. It seems pretty impossible to kill the bugs, and

until I do, a cure is pretty far fetched.

>

> penny

>

>

>

> Penny Houle <pennyhoule@...> wrote:

> You can search Weston Price and find tons of

references. His research is famous as the basis of Meinig's

book, " Root Canal Coverup " . It's a good read, written in lay terms.

Here's the first link that came up in a google search on Price, and

it seems to be a very good overview of his work in laymen's terms.

Also how his research, much of it very good and thorough, has been

systematically ignored and suppressed by a corrupt dental

establishment. Truly, if people realized how dangerous dentistry was

to our health, the ADA would be out of business.

>

> http://www.mizar5.com/coverup.htm

>

> penny

>

> <usenethod@...> wrote:

> Is this written up in full detail somewhere?

>

>

> >

> > Dr. Price implanted the teeth under the skin on their backs. And

they

> developed the same illness symptoms of the humans who had the teeth

> removed.

> >

> > penny

> >

>

[Guest guest]

-Hey I know its serious and there are no easy answers. But you know

Kulacs had successes as well as I do. Was your first surgery with

him?

You dont seem to have an alternative or are waiting for some super

abx to appear.....as the people on experimental are waiting for the

super supplement...

One tip I have is Voll's statement in the teeth and chi post that

the lower wisdom teeth should be removed first.

You seem to be saying this should be done but noone can do it right

well thats certainly an excuse for inaction. Sooner or later we

need to jump.

OS working within the alopathic context I think wont have a clue

about post-surgical healing. I agree about the team idea but my team

would include some like Klinghardt, Rau etc so we might

disagree on who we need.

Like yourself I am concerned about the failures in this area but

lets not pretend they aren't successes as well.

www.lumenphoton is a non surgical alternative, any views? I am not

convinced myself yet.

Obviously you have been a pioneer in this area, I wish things had

worked better for you.

Sunny thoughts,

wallace

P.S Maybe If Kulacz had also a Cavitat scan to show you, you would

have been more likely to give the say so?!! I would like to have

had as much as info as possible!

PPS By now I am sure the Cavitat has convinced Kulacs(4 years on

with the Generation 4 machine. Cavitat won that law suit by the way.

-- In infections , Penny Houle

<pennyhoule@...> wrote:

>

> Wallace,

>

> The cavitat? Please. My husband used to design medical imaging

devices for a Xeorox & Dupont joint venture (DXI aka DX Imaging).

The cavitat is very difficult to get reproducible results on. It's

basically using ultrasound for boney areas, not something

recommended for reliability. I know so many people who've had

completely different results from multiple cavitat images. Even with

the same doctor!

>

> You need very thorough, thin slices of a CT scan, because that's

the best thing out there right now, AND you need a REALLY good

radiologist. I know one in Arizona, if you need one.

>

> Do you know how many people I know who've had every tooth in

their head removed and are sicker than ever? A team of good doctors

is needed to deal with this illness, just like a diabetic with a

rotting foot bone needs a team of doctors.

>

> I know quite a few people who've been treated by Kulacs. He's

skilled at extracting with little trauma, that's true. I thought he

was doing pretty good for awhile (also hugely opposed to the

Cavitat, you might recall) until he kind of went off the deep end

before closing his practice. He looked at one murky panorama of my

jaw and said that if I didn't have most or all of my teeth removed

and my sinuses reamed that I'd die. Well, after getting much worse

after my own first surgery, and seeing my good friend who used to be

a vital and active person lose pretty much everything after an

overly aggressive surgery by another famous NICO doc. weakened her

facial bones to the point of collapse, not to mention the death of

my dentist friend after his surgery, I'm not too keen on any of

these docs. Just like my maxofacial specialist who says that in his

experience, this is the norm rather than the exception. It's

unfortunate because he too was originally supporting these guys. Not

> only was he upset by his patients coming back from all across

country worse off than before, he started becoming alarmed after

attending their conferences that the major motivator seemed to be

money above all. Have you seen where one of the big guys in the biz

lives? I'm telling you Wallace, if you have any comnpassion for

patients, you'd be careful recommending these guys so whole

heartedly. You should tell people to proceed with extreme caution

and find a good team. Not just any guy who bought a cavitat machine

and spends one day at a training session before opening shop with it.

>

> This is an extremely tricky place to have an infection. Trickier

to heal than spread.

>

> penny

>

>

>

> Wallace Kingston <wpswallace@...> wrote:

> ---A bacterial infection in your jaw requires surgery

doesn't it?

>

> However its noticable that Dr Issels, Klinghardt, Rau etc do other

> things alongside surgery. Post surgical healing is obviously a

> problem or the surgery eventually may need to be redone.

>

> Even Weston Price gave patients Parathyroid,autogenous vaccine etc

So

> dental surgery is not a cure all in itself.

>

> So few dentists can read a panoramic X ray that I do believe a

> Cavitat scan is useful. But of course you have to discuss this

with

> the elusive good dentist. It will mean losing teeth in most cases.

>

> Bad Surgery can spread the infection but doing nothing the

infection

> will gradually spread as well.

>

> Of course there are bad stories out there, surgery is never

pleasant

> and some people change their minds half way through

>

> The roots of disease by Kulacs/ Levy is worth reading.

>

> sunny thoughts,

> Wallace

>

> In infections , Penny Houle

> <pennyhoule@> wrote:

> >

> > P.S. Part of the problem here is that the people who've paid

> attention to Dr. Price's work actually don't understand bacteria

all

> that well either and think it can be treated with alternative

> therapies like garlic and herbs. So they contribute to the

> credibility problem more than they help.

> >

> > Mainstream dentistry has systematically denied the existence of

> focal infections and it's only very recently that they have

> acknowledged that bacteria can continue to live on the nutrients

> inside the dentin of the teeth, even after disinfecting

treatments.

> Dentists continue to believe that " sterilizing " the tooth and root

> canaling it is all that's needed. They ignore the evidence that

not

> only can bacteria survive quite nicely in the dentin, they can

spread

> through the tubules and gain access to other vulnerable parts of

the

> body. It's frustrating. Finding a dentist who subscribes to

Price's

> theories who will also treat appropriately with effective enough

> antimicrobials is almost impossible.

> >

> > A friend of mine was a dentist himself who figured this all out

> too late and died due to one of these infections going to his

brain

> after " cavitation " surgery. He couldn't get his peers to listen to

> him and made the mistake of going to one of the famous quacks who

> didn't treat properly. He put it all together too late. Tony was

> actually the one pleading with us to do whatever we could to help

> him, saying Dr. Odell was going to die if we didn't. It was a

> travesty because he actually started doing better on the abx, his

> seizures had all but stopped, but unfortunately he overdid it once

he

> started feeling better, and had one more seizure he died. What's

> really crazy and maddening about this was how hard it was for Dr.

> Odell, a well liked dentist himself, to get help from his

mainstream

> peers. If even a dentist can't get his own peers to treat him,

it's

> hard to imagine us getting better care.

> >

> > One of the things Dr. Price did was very clearly show how

> resistant the 20 organisms he identified in teeth are to

> antimicrobials. As Dr. Meinig says,

> >

> > " Your dentist may think that the disinfecting treatment he

> uses during

> > root canal therapy would cause the death of these bacteria.

> Treatment

> > does kill most bacteria in the root canal, but Price found that

not

> one

> > of the over 100 disinfectants he studied was capable of

penetrating

> > the tubules. The same holds true for antibiotics today. "

> >

> > This is why knowing I have a dx'd bacterial infection in my jaw

> is so disheartening. It seems pretty impossible to kill the bugs,

and

> until I do, a cure is pretty far fetched.

> >

> > penny

> >

> >

> >

> > Penny Houle <pennyhoule@> wrote:

> > You can search Weston Price and find tons of

> references. His research is famous as the basis of Meinig's

> book, " Root Canal Coverup " . It's a good read, written in lay

terms.

> Here's the first link that came up in a google search on Price,

and

> it seems to be a very good overview of his work in laymen's terms.

> Also how his research, much of it very good and thorough, has been

> systematically ignored and suppressed by a corrupt dental

> establishment. Truly, if people realized how dangerous dentistry

was

> to our health, the ADA would be out of business.

> >

> > http://www.mizar5.com/coverup.htm

> >

> > penny

> >

> > <usenethod@> wrote:

> > Is this written up in full detail somewhere?

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Dr. Price implanted the teeth under the skin on their backs.

And

> they

> > developed the same illness symptoms of the humans who had the

teeth

> > removed.

> > >

> > > penny

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wallace do you know if any of these success stories are recorded

anywhere in detail in the 1st person (ie directly from the patients)?