Re: Losartan, muscle repair and Lyme/cfs

[Guest guest]

a

I feel all these come with there own bits of danger. I just don't

think these are the miracle drug some people make them out to be.I

would definately feel it may be used on a short term basis just to

correct immediate threats, but on an ongoing basis flatteniong your

blood pressure and some other side effects, ain't worth the risk when

your already struggling to feed your cells and clean debris from your

body due to bad blood flows.Also resistance occurs as in many drugs

from what it did to to what it now does.My experience with benicar

and the other 4 drugs in the group.

>

> " Losartan was approved for use as a blood pressure medication in

1995

> by the Food and Drug Administration. It is known to block a protein

> known as TGF-beta.

> Excessive activity by TGF-beta is associated with reduced muscle

> generation and repair... "

>

> Would Benicar work better? Does it block TGF-beta? I am thinking

that

> losartan might work to restore normal muscle function in cfs.

> Losartan is what Moskowitz is using to treat Lyme patients.

>

> Thanks for any comments. - a Carnes

>

>

>

> http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MUSCULAR_DYSTROPHY_DRUG?

> SITE=NVLAS & SECTION=HOME & TEMPLATE=DEFAULT & CTIME=2007-01-21-17-32-32

>

> Jan 21, 5:32 PM EST

>

>

> Drug Helps Mice With Muscular Dystrophy

>

> By RANDOLPH E. SCHMID

> AP Science Writer

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> WASHINGTON (AP) -- A widely used blood-pressure drug reduced muscle

> damage in mice with the most common form of muscular dystrophy,

> researchers report.

>

> A team at s Hopkins University found the drug losartan seemed

to

> improve muscle regeneration in mice with a rare condition known as

> Marfan syndrome and in mice with Duchenne muscular dystrophy - the

> most common form in children.

>

> " The results are very intriguing and certainly worthy of further

> investigation, " said Dr. Cwik, medical director of the

> Muscular Dystrophy Association.

>

> While noting that it is only a single study, Cwik said the drug is

> currently used in children and has a good safety profile.

>

> The only current treatment for Duchenne has side effects, so it is

> worth investigating whether this can offer an alternative, said

Cwik,

> who was not part of the research team.

>

> In Marfan mice treated with the drug, the aorta was strengthened,

> reducing the chance of an aneurism in which this major blood vessel

> bursts.

>

> " In addition to the aortic defect, children with severe Marfan

> syndrome often have very small, weak muscles, and adults with

Marfan

> often can't gain muscle mass despite adequate nutrition and

> exercise, " Dr. Harry C. Dietz of s Hopkins, the lead

researcher,

> said in a statement.

>

> In Marfan mice, treatment with losartan " completely restored muscle

> architecture " and vastly improved strength, according to Dietz. He

is

> planning a test in people with Marfan syndrome.

>

> Researchers wondered whether the muscle response was specific to

> Marfan or if they had discovered something basic about muscle

> biology. So they then tested the drug in mice with Duchenne

muscular

> dystrophy.

>

> After six months of treatment, the mice showed a significant

> reduction in muscle damage. The mice showed increased grip strength

> in their fore- and hind-limbs and experienced less fatigue in

> repetitive tests, the researchers reported in Monday's online issue

> of the journal Nature Medicine.

>

> Losartan was approved for use as a blood pressure medication in

1995

> by the Food and Drug Administration. It is known to block a protein

> known as TGF-beta.

>

> Excessive activity by TGF-beta is associated with reduced muscle

> generation and repair, leading Dietz's team to test it against

Marfan

> and then muscular dystrophy.

>

> Duchenne muscular dystrophy is a muscle-wasting genetic disorder

that

> affects only boys. It occurs in about 1 in every 3,500 male births.

> It is the most severe and most common childhood form of muscular

> dystrophy and the best-known.

>

> Marfan is a genetic disorder that affects about 1 in 5,000 to

10,000

> individuals.

>

[Guest guest]

Such conflicting reports. Some say ARBs (like Benicar and Losartan) CAUSE muscle damage. Now they're saying they REPAIR muscle damage. I guess all we can say for sure is that something must be happening to the muscles when you're on these drugs. I can tell you that I really felt weakness in my Quads after starting Benicar. At a certain point that went away. But then many months later, perhaps more than a year later, my right Quad was feeling messed up (sore) all the time. It was one of my concerns about having taken Benicar for so long. When I finally stopped the Benicar, that quad problem cleared up really quickly, which was a big relief knowing that the damage didn't seem to be permanent. So yes, I definitely beleive my muscle weakness/soreness was somehow related to Benicar although I can't say for sure it was caused by Benicar. Coinicidentally, while my quad was affected, my knee improved

quite a bit. Shortly after going off the Benicar, I developed some kind of hip strain, which I'm still recoving from, very, very slowly. Whether this was related to being on or off the Benicar I can't say. But all my muscular and ligament type problems are always on the right side (even my shoulder) and I can't believe that this right sided situation was caused solely by benicar although it may have been exacerbated, or conversely, helped. It's hard to tell for sure since I've seen improvements and problems all at the same time. Leading me back to the original point, Benicar seems to affect muscles but whether good or bad, I don't really know. pennydumbaussie2000 <dumbaussie2000@...> wrote: aI feel all these come with there own bits of danger. I just don't think these are the miracle drug some people make them out to be.I would definately feel it may be used on a short term basis just to correct immediate threats, but on an ongoing basis flatteniong your blood pressure and some other side effects, ain't worth the risk when your already struggling to feed your cells and clean debris from your body due to bad blood flows.Also resistance occurs as in many drugs from what it did to to what it now does.My experience with benicar and the other 4 drugs in the group.>> "Losartan was approved for use as a blood pressure medication in 1995 > by the Food and Drug Administration. It is known to block a protein > known as TGF-beta.> Excessive activity by TGF-beta is associated with reduced muscle > generation and repair..."> > Would Benicar work better? Does it block TGF-beta? I am thinking that > losartan might work to restore normal muscle function in cfs. > Losartan is what Moskowitz is using to treat Lyme patients.> > Thanks for any comments. - a Carnes> > > > http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MUSCULAR_DYSTROPHY_DRUG?>

SITE=NVLAS & SECTION=HOME & TEMPLATE=DEFAULT & CTIME=2007-01-21-17-32-32> > Jan 21, 5:32 PM EST> > > Drug Helps Mice With Muscular Dystrophy > > By RANDOLPH E. SCHMID > AP Science Writer> > > > > > > > > > WASHINGTON (AP) -- A widely used blood-pressure drug reduced muscle > damage in mice with the most common form of muscular dystrophy, > researchers report.> > A team at s Hopkins University found the drug losartan seemed to > improve muscle regeneration in mice with a rare condition known as > Marfan syndrome and in mice with Duchenne muscular dystrophy - the > most common form in children.> > "The results are very intriguing and certainly worthy of further > investigation," said Dr. Cwik, medical director of the > Muscular

Dystrophy Association.> > While noting that it is only a single study, Cwik said the drug is > currently used in children and has a good safety profile.> > The only current treatment for Duchenne has side effects, so it is > worth investigating whether this can offer an alternative, said Cwik, > who was not part of the research team.> > In Marfan mice treated with the drug, the aorta was strengthened, > reducing the chance of an aneurism in which this major blood vessel > bursts.> > "In addition to the aortic defect, children with severe Marfan > syndrome often have very small, weak muscles, and adults with Marfan > often can't gain muscle mass despite adequate nutrition and > exercise," Dr. Harry C. Dietz of s Hopkins, the lead researcher, > said in a statement.> > In Marfan mice, treatment with losartan "completely restored

muscle > architecture" and vastly improved strength, according to Dietz. He is > planning a test in people with Marfan syndrome.> > Researchers wondered whether the muscle response was specific to > Marfan or if they had discovered something basic about muscle > biology. So they then tested the drug in mice with Duchenne muscular > dystrophy.> > After six months of treatment, the mice showed a significant > reduction in muscle damage. The mice showed increased grip strength > in their fore- and hind-limbs and experienced less fatigue in > repetitive tests, the researchers reported in Monday's online issue > of the journal Nature Medicine.> > Losartan was approved for use as a blood pressure medication in 1995 > by the Food and Drug Administration. It is known to block a protein > known as TGF-beta.> > Excessive activity by

TGF-beta is associated with reduced muscle > generation and repair, leading Dietz's team to test it against Marfan > and then muscular dystrophy.> > Duchenne muscular dystrophy is a muscle-wasting genetic disorder that > affects only boys. It occurs in about 1 in every 3,500 male births. > It is the most severe and most common childhood form of muscular > dystrophy and the best-known.> > Marfan is a genetic disorder that affects about 1 in 5,000 to 10,000 > individuals.>

[Guest guest]

Penny,

I am not sure my earlier post was very clear. What I meant to say was that some sartans and some anti-parasitic drugs are in the same chemical class, benzimidazoles.

Nelly

Re: [infections] Re: Losartan, muscle repair and Lyme/cfs

Such conflicting reports. Some say ARBs (like Benicar and Losartan) CAUSE muscle damage. Now they're saying they REPAIR muscle damage. I guess all we can say for sure is that something must be happening to the muscles when you're on these drugs.

I can tell you that I really felt weakness in my Quads after starting Benicar. At a certain point that went away. But then many months later, perhaps more than a year later, my right Quad was feeling messed up (sore) all the time. It was one of my concerns about having taken Benicar for so long. When I finally stopped the Benicar, that quad problem cleared up really quickly, which was a big relief knowing that the damage didn't seem to be permanent.

So yes, I definitely beleive my muscle weakness/soreness was somehow related to Benicar although I can't say for sure it was caused by Benicar. Coinicidentally, while my quad was affected, my knee improved quite a bit. Shortly after going off the Benicar, I developed some kind of hip strain, which I'm still recoving from, very, very slowly. Whether this was related to being on or off the Benicar I can't say. But all my muscular and ligament type problems are always on the right side (even my shoulder) and I can't believe that this right sided situation was caused solely by benicar although it may have been exacerbated, or conversely, helped. It's hard to tell for sure since I've seen improvements and problems all at the same time. Leading me back to the original point, Benicar seems to affect muscles but whether good or bad, I don't really know.

pennydumbaussie2000 <dumbaussie2000 .au> wrote:

aI feel all these come with there own bits of danger. I just don't think these are the miracle drug some people make them out to be.I would definately feel it may be used on a short term basis just to correct immediate threats, but on an ongoing basis flatteniong your blood pressure and some other side effects, ain't worth the risk when your already struggling to feed your cells and clean debris from your body due to bad blood flows.Also resistance occurs as in many drugs from what it did to to what it now does.My experience with benicar and the other 4 drugs in the group.>> "Losartan was approved for use as a blood pressure medication in 1995 > by the Food and Drug Administration. It is known to block a protein > known as TGF-beta.> Excessive activity by TGF-beta is associated with reduced muscle > generation and repair..."> > Would Benicar work better? Does it block TGF-beta? I am thinking that > losartan might work to restore normal muscle function in cfs. > Losartan is what Moskowitz is using to treat Lyme patients.> > Thanks for any comments. - a Carnes> > > > http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MUSCULAR_DYSTROPHY_DRUG?> SITE=NVLAS & SECTION=HOME & TEMPLATE=DEFAULT & CTIME=2007-01-21-17-32-32> > Jan 21, 5:32 PM EST> > > Drug Helps Mice With Muscular Dystrophy > > By RANDOLPH E. SCHMID > AP Science Writer> > > > > > > > > > WASHINGTON (AP) -- A widely used blood-pressure drug reduced muscle > damage in mice with the most common form of muscular dystrophy, > researchers report.> > A team at s Hopkins University found the drug losartan seemed to > improve muscle regeneration in mice with a rare condition known as > Marfan syndrome and in mice with Duchenne muscular dystrophy - the > most common form in children.> > "The results are very intriguing and certainly worthy of further > investigation," said Dr. Cwik, medical director of the > Muscular Dystrophy Association.> > While noting that it is only a single study, Cwik said the drug is > currently used in children and has a good safety profile.> > The only current treatment for Duchenne has side effects, so it is > worth investigating whether this can offer an alternative, said Cwik, > who was not part of the research team.> > In Marfan mice treated with the drug, the aorta was strengthened, > reducing the chance of an aneurism in which this major blood vessel > bursts.> > "In addition to the aortic defect, children with severe Marfan > syndrome often have very small, weak muscles, and adults with Marfan > often can't gain muscle mass despite adequate nutrition and > exercise," Dr. Harry C. Dietz of s Hopkins, the lead researcher, > said in a statement.> > In Marfan mice, treatment with losartan "completely restored muscle > architecture" and vastly improved strength, according to Dietz. He is > planning a test in people with Marfan syndrome.> > Researchers wondered whether the muscle response was specific to > Marfan or if they had discovered something basic about muscle > biology. So they then tested the drug in mice with Duchenne muscular > dystrophy.> > After six months of treatment, the mice showed a significant > reduction in muscle damage. The mice showed increased grip strength > in their fore- and hind-limbs and experienced less fatigue in > repetitive tests, the researchers reported in Monday's online issue > of the journal Nature Medicine.> > Losartan was approved for use as a blood pressure medication in 1995 > by the Food and Drug Administration. It is known to block a protein > known as TGF-beta.> > Excessive activity by TGF-beta is associated with reduced muscle > generation and repair, leading Dietz's team to test it against Marfan > and then muscular dystrophy.> > Duchenne muscular dystrophy is a muscle-wasting genetic disorder that > affects only boys. It occurs in about 1 in every 3,500 male births. > It is the most severe and most common childhood form of muscular > dystrophy and the best-known.> > Marfan is a genetic disorder that affects about 1 in 5,000 to 10,000 > individuals.>

[Guest guest]

Hi Nelly,

I'm slow. Would Benicar and Cozaar both be in the benizimidazole

category? You said " some sartans. " I don't even know how to look this

up.

Like Penny, I find my own situation so complex it seems unsolvable.

-no pain in tendon tissue before quinolones

-some initial improvement in pain on Benicar but then after 9 months

severe tendon and muscle weakness developed gradually

-tendon and muscle weakness improved on Recuperation plus gentle

balance exercises strengthened tendons

-current question, would losartan help strengthen tendons or muscles -

would it cause further pain attributed to die-off of parasites -

would Benicar or losartan be better?

a

>

> Penny,

>

> I am not sure my earlier post was very clear. What I meant to say

was that some sartans and some anti-parasitic drugs are in the same

chemical class, benzimidazoles.

>

> Nelly

> Re: [infections] Re: Losartan, muscle

repair and Lyme/cfs

>

>

>

> Such conflicting reports. Some say ARBs (like Benicar and

Losartan) CAUSE muscle damage. Now they're saying they REPAIR muscle

damage. I guess all we can say for sure is that something must be

happening to the muscles when you're on these drugs.

>

> I can tell you that I really felt weakness in my Quads after

starting Benicar. At a certain point that went away. But then many

months later, perhaps more than a year later, my right Quad was

feeling messed up (sore) all the time. It was one of my concerns

about having taken Benicar for so long. When I finally stopped the

Benicar, that quad problem cleared up really quickly, which was a big

relief knowing that the damage didn't seem to be permanent.

>

> So yes, I definitely beleive my muscle weakness/soreness was

somehow related to Benicar although I can't say for sure it was

caused by Benicar. Coinicidentally, while my quad was affected, my

knee improved quite a bit. Shortly after going off the Benicar, I

developed some kind of hip strain, which I'm still recoving from,

very, very slowly. Whether this was related to being on or off the

Benicar I can't say. But all my muscular and ligament type problems

are always on the right side (even my shoulder) and I can't believe

that this right sided situation was caused solely by benicar although

it may have been exacerbated, or conversely, helped. It's hard to

tell for sure since I've seen improvements and problems all at the

same time. Leading me back to the original point, Benicar seems to

affect muscles but whether good or bad, I don't really know.

>

> penny

>

> dumbaussie2000 <dumbaussie2000@...> wrote:

> a

> I feel all these come with there own bits of danger. I just

don't

> think these are the miracle drug some people make them out to

be.I

> would definately feel it may be used on a short term basis just

to

> correct immediate threats, but on an ongoing basis flatteniong

your

> blood pressure and some other side effects, ain't worth the

risk when

> your already struggling to feed your cells and clean debris

from your

> body due to bad blood flows.Also resistance occurs as in many

drugs

> from what it did to to what it now does.My experience with

benicar

> and the other 4 drugs in the group.

>

>

> >

> > " Losartan was approved for use as a blood pressure medication

in

> 1995

> > by the Food and Drug Administration. It is known to block a

protein

> > known as TGF-beta.

> > Excessive activity by TGF-beta is associated with reduced

muscle

> > generation and repair... "

> >

> > Would Benicar work better? Does it block TGF-beta? I am

thinking

> that

> > losartan might work to restore normal muscle function in cfs.

> > Losartan is what Moskowitz is using to treat Lyme patients.

> >

> > Thanks for any comments. - a Carnes

> >

> >

> >

> >

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MUSCULAR_DYSTROPHY_DRUG?

> > SITE=NVLAS & SECTION=HOME & TEMPLATE=DEFAULT & CTIME=2007-01-21-17-

32-32

> >

> > Jan 21, 5:32 PM EST

> >

> >

> > Drug Helps Mice With Muscular Dystrophy

> >

> > By RANDOLPH E. SCHMID

> > AP Science Writer

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > WASHINGTON (AP) -- A widely used blood-pressure drug reduced

muscle

> > damage in mice with the most common form of muscular

dystrophy,

> > researchers report.

> >

> > A team at s Hopkins University found the drug losartan

seemed

> to

> > improve muscle regeneration in mice with a rare condition

known as

> > Marfan syndrome and in mice with Duchenne muscular dystrophy -

the

> > most common form in children.

> >

> > " The results are very intriguing and certainly worthy of

further

> > investigation, " said Dr. Cwik, medical director of

the

> > Muscular Dystrophy Association.

> >

> > While noting that it is only a single study, Cwik said the

drug is

> > currently used in children and has a good safety profile.

> >

> > The only current treatment for Duchenne has side effects, so

it is

> > worth investigating whether this can offer an alternative,

said

> Cwik,

> > who was not part of the research team.

> >

> > In Marfan mice treated with the drug, the aorta was

strengthened,

> > reducing the chance of an aneurism in which this major blood

vessel

> > bursts.

> >

> > " In addition to the aortic defect, children with severe

Marfan

> > syndrome often have very small, weak muscles, and adults with

> Marfan

> > often can't gain muscle mass despite adequate nutrition and

> > exercise, " Dr. Harry C. Dietz of s Hopkins, the lead

> researcher,

> > said in a statement.

> >

> > In Marfan mice, treatment with losartan " completely restored

muscle

> > architecture " and vastly improved strength, according to

Dietz. He

> is

> > planning a test in people with Marfan syndrome.

> >

> > Researchers wondered whether the muscle response was specific

to

> > Marfan or if they had discovered something basic about muscle

> > biology. So they then tested the drug in mice with Duchenne

> muscular

> > dystrophy.

> >

> > After six months of treatment, the mice showed a significant

> > reduction in muscle damage. The mice showed increased grip

strength

> > in their fore- and hind-limbs and experienced less fatigue in

> > repetitive tests, the researchers reported in Monday's online

issue

> > of the journal Nature Medicine.

> >

> > Losartan was approved for use as a blood pressure medication

in

> 1995

> > by the Food and Drug Administration. It is known to block a

protein

> > known as TGF-beta.

> >

> > Excessive activity by TGF-beta is associated with reduced

muscle

> > generation and repair, leading Dietz's team to test it

against

> Marfan

> > and then muscular dystrophy.

> >

> > Duchenne muscular dystrophy is a muscle-wasting genetic

disorder

> that

> > affects only boys. It occurs in about 1 in every 3,500 male

births.

> > It is the most severe and most common childhood form of

muscular

> > dystrophy and the best-known.

> >

> > Marfan is a genetic disorder that affects about 1 in 5,000 to

> 10,000

> > individuals.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

a,

No idea! )

All I know is that Benicar (olmesartan) is in the benzimidazole chemical class, and that anti-helminthic agents (albendazole, thialbendazole, mebendazole) that treat parasitic infections that have a larval stage that infect muscles.

Don't know any more, and I am not drawing any conclusions.

Nelly

[infections] Re: Losartan, muscle repair and Lyme/cfs

Hi Nelly,I'm slow. Would Benicar and Cozaar both be in the benizimidazole category? You said "some sartans." I don't even know how to look this up.Like Penny, I find my own situation so complex it seems unsolvable.-no pain in tendon tissue before quinolones-some initial improvement in pain on Benicar but then after 9 months severe tendon and muscle weakness developed gradually-tendon and muscle weakness improved on Recuperation plus gentle balance exercises strengthened tendons-current question, would losartan help strengthen tendons or muscles -would it cause further pain attributed to die-off of parasites - would Benicar or losartan be better?a

[Guest guest]

a,

No idea! )

All I know is that Benicar (olmesartan) is in the benzimidazole chemical class, and that anti-helminthic agents (albendazole, thialbendazole, mebendazole) that treat parasitic infections that have a larval stage that infect muscles.

Don't know any more, and I am not drawing any conclusions.

Nelly

[infections] Re: Losartan, muscle repair and Lyme/cfs

Hi Nelly,I'm slow. Would Benicar and Cozaar both be in the benizimidazole category? You said "some sartans." I don't even know how to look this up.Like Penny, I find my own situation so complex it seems unsolvable.-no pain in tendon tissue before quinolones-some initial improvement in pain on Benicar but then after 9 months severe tendon and muscle weakness developed gradually-tendon and muscle weakness improved on Recuperation plus gentle balance exercises strengthened tendons-current question, would losartan help strengthen tendons or muscles -would it cause further pain attributed to die-off of parasites - would Benicar or losartan be better?a