Re: Is there a virus going on????

[Guest guest]

a,

I read somewhere that it's a big deal whether you're talking HHV6a or

HHV6b. I can never remember which is which, but they are different

enough that some feel they should have different designations rather

than just an appended suffix. Some research has studied HHV6 in

general without distinguishing subtypes, others have studied one or the

other, and it has produced much confusion and slowed down progress.

There are certainly folks who feel that HHV6 is a player in CFS. Sorry

but it's been something like 8 years since I focused on viral causes,

largely because there is so little that seems to be actionable about

viruses anyway ... especially for the chemically sensitive.

Gancyclovir and the like are hard on the liver and kidneys of healthy

people ... they are all the more risky for people with impaired detox

pathways.

--Bob

pjeanneus wrote:

Anybody here know much about HHV6a? Is it a player in cfs? Would

any

of you treat cfs with antivirals? What chance is there that there is

some "HIV" thing going on in the world that has not been discovered?

Think the lady in Philly who researched a virus, then no more was

heard, no money spent...

a Carnes

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.9/719 - Release Date: 3/12/2007 8:41 AM

[Guest guest]

a, it’s been widely accepted for

a number of years now that HHV6 is a player in CFS.  It’s the Roseola

virus that most people get exposed to in childhood & then it goes dormant,

but can reactivate later in life.  There’s some respected Dr.’s

using Transfer Factor (colostrum obtained from cows that have been inoculated w/a

number of viruses (EBV, HHv6, CMV, etc.) & then by taking the TF, it helps

your body recognize the virus & drive it back down into dormancy.  Many

people have had good luck w/this therapy.  Patrice

From: infections [mailto:infections ] On Behalf Of pjeanneus

Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 1:56

PM

infections

Subject: [infections]

Is there a virus going on????

Anybody here know much about HHV6a? Is it a player in

cfs? Would any

of you treat cfs with antivirals? What chance is there that there is

some " HIV " thing going on in the world that has not been discovered?

Think the lady in Philly who researched a virus, then no more was

heard, no money spent...

a Carnes

[Guest guest]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed

(Type in abstract number)

HIV-1 / HHV6 17209056

CCR5 / Borrelia 15885315

(Note neuroborreliosis)

CCR5 / Delta32 17331851

(It is the delta32 receptor that is applicable to studies of the

history of the Black Death in Europe, as well as Crimean Congo

Hemorrhagic Fever. The unknown virus that apprently caused the Black

Death travelled up the Nile [Rift Valley] to disseminate into the

eastern Mediterranean.)

HHV6 / Sophocarpines 11933118

Sophora / EF-1 / Matrine 17291488

(Active constituents from Sophora spp. have potent antiviral effects

in hepatitis B virus infections, and may be similar to heat-shock-

induced imino sugars from Morus (mulberry), which prevent viral

protein folding and maturation and thus, egress from the cell. These

imino-sugars are not synthesized in Morus until about the time of

the first frost and increasing during the course of a winter season;

they act as anti-pathogen compounds while the tree is in its

dormancy. Thus, when any herpesvirus first encounters the human

immune system, it 'hides' most usually in the trigeminal ganglia,

this mechanism is worthy of more study as it relates to secondary

plant compounds and dormancy.

EF-1 factor is relevant in schizophrenia. See my several-years-old

webpage:

http://aquaviva11.tripod.com

>

> a, it's been widely accepted for a number of years now that

HHV6 is a

> player in CFS. It's the Roseola virus that most people get

exposed to in

> childhood & then it goes dormant, but can reactivate later in

life. There's

> some respected Dr.'s using Transfer Factor (colostrum obtained

from cows

> that have been inoculated w/a number of viruses (EBV, HHv6, CMV,

etc.) &

> then by taking the TF, it helps your body recognize the virus &

drive it

> back down into dormancy. Many people have had good luck w/this

therapy.

> Patrice

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: infections

> [mailto:infections ] On Behalf Of

pjeanneus

> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 1:56 PM

> infections

> Subject: [infections] Is there a virus going on????

>

>

>

> Anybody here know much about HHV6a? Is it a player in cfs? Would

any

> of you treat cfs with antivirals? What chance is there that there

is

> some " HIV " thing going on in the world that has not been

discovered?

> Think the lady in Philly who researched a virus, then no more was

> heard, no money spent...

>

> a Carnes

>

[Guest guest]

Could you expound on this a little more? I don't understand. Black

death was a virus? Then you list an article on borrelia although you

didn't post the article contents. Why is that included in a list of

viruses?

Yes, I get it that a virus (s) is thought to cause schitzophrenia,

but does that mean we have any clue that cfs is caused by a virus?

a

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed

> (Type in abstract number)

>

> HIV-1 / HHV6 17209056

>

> CCR5 / Borrelia 15885315

> (Note neuroborreliosis)

>

> CCR5 / Delta32 17331851

> (It is the delta32 receptor that is applicable to studies of the

> history of the Black Death in Europe, as well as Crimean Congo

> Hemorrhagic Fever. The unknown virus that apprently caused the

Black

> Death travelled up the Nile [Rift Valley] to disseminate into the

> eastern Mediterranean.)

>

> HHV6 / Sophocarpines 11933118

>

> Sophora / EF-1 / Matrine 17291488

> (Active constituents from Sophora spp. have potent antiviral

effects

> in hepatitis B virus infections, and may be similar to heat-shock-

> induced imino sugars from Morus (mulberry), which prevent viral

> protein folding and maturation and thus, egress from the cell.

These

> imino-sugars are not synthesized in Morus until about the time of

> the first frost and increasing during the course of a winter

season;

> they act as anti-pathogen compounds while the tree is in its

> dormancy. Thus, when any herpesvirus first encounters the human

> immune system, it 'hides' most usually in the trigeminal ganglia,

> this mechanism is worthy of more study as it relates to secondary

> plant compounds and dormancy.

>

> EF-1 factor is relevant in schizophrenia. See my several-years-old

> webpage:

> http://aquaviva11.tripod.com

>

>

>

>

> >

> > a, it's been widely accepted for a number of years now that

> HHV6 is a

> > player in CFS. It's the Roseola virus that most people get

> exposed to in

> > childhood & then it goes dormant, but can reactivate later in

> life. There's

> > some respected Dr.'s using Transfer Factor (colostrum obtained

> from cows

> > that have been inoculated w/a number of viruses (EBV, HHv6, CMV,

> etc.) &

> > then by taking the TF, it helps your body recognize the virus &

> drive it

> > back down into dormancy. Many people have had good luck w/this

> therapy.

> > Patrice

> >

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: infections

> > [mailto:infections ] On Behalf Of

> pjeanneus

> > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 1:56 PM

> > infections

> > Subject: [infections] Is there a virus going on????

> >

> >

> >

> > Anybody here know much about HHV6a? Is it a player in cfs? Would

> any

> > of you treat cfs with antivirals? What chance is there that there

> is

> > some " HIV " thing going on in the world that has not been

> discovered?

> > Think the lady in Philly who researched a virus, then no more was

> > heard, no money spent...

> >

> > a Carnes

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Bob, the person who asked me about this was mentioning HHV6a, and I

have followed Knox and Carrigan's work, somewhat. I find myself

thinking that roseola is like EBV - reactivated because something

else is going on. But, hey, I could have it all backwards, and there

could still be ANOTHER virus we haven't even uncovered.

Like you, I tend to think that we know the bacteria such as

mycoplasma and borrelia is serious and potentially treatable. We

don't know if the antivirals will work for cfs, and they are much

risker.

I would welcome any more input on this topic from all.

a Carnes

>

> a,

>

> I read somewhere that it's a big deal whether you're talking HHV6a

or

> HHV6b. I can never remember which is which, but they are different

> enough that some feel they should have different designations

rather

> than just an appended suffix. Some research has studied HHV6 in

general

> without distinguishing subtypes, others have studied one or the

other,

> and it has produced much confusion and slowed down progress.

>

> There are certainly folks who feel that HHV6 is a player in CFS.

Sorry

> but it's been something like 8 years since I focused on viral

causes,

> largely because there is so little that seems to be actionable

about

> viruses anyway ... especially for the chemically sensitive.

Gancyclovir

> and the like are hard on the liver and kidneys of healthy

people ...

> they are all the more risky for people with impaired detox pathways.

>

> --Bob

>

> pjeanneus wrote:

> >

> > Anybody here know much about HHV6a? Is it a player in cfs? Would

any

> > of you treat cfs with antivirals? What chance is there that there

is

> > some " HIV " thing going on in the world that has not been

discovered?

> > Think the lady in Philly who researched a virus, then no more was

> > heard, no money spent...

> >

> > a Carnes

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------

------

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.9/719 - Release Date:

3/12/2007 8:41 AM

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear a

If the following media release coupled with Lloyd's comments is anything to go on, there could be an infinite number of pathogens (including Nanobacterium sanguineum).

Regards

Windsor

MEDIA RELEASE

Who's going to get chronic fatigue?

06 November 2006

Researchers from UNSW are able to predict who is going to develop chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), after acute infections such as glandular fever.“The sicker you are at the beginning of the infection, the more likely it is to result in a prolonged illness,” said UNSW Professor Lloyd, of the Centre for Infection and Inflammation Research, who leads the research team. “We have also shown that the fatigue has been triggered in ten percent of people, from the moment the acute infection starts,” he said. “It’s just that some of the other symptoms, such as fevers, sore throat, and swollen glands go away.”Since 1999, a team led by Professor Lloyd has been tracking the long-term health of individuals infected with Ross River virus (RRV), Q fever infection and Epstein-Barr virus, which causes glandular fever. The study is centred around the NSW city of Dubbo.“The further you go down the track in looking at people after the acute stage of these quite different infections, the more they merge into a uniform syndrome,” said Professor Lloyd.“These three different bugs trigger this fatigue from moment one, of day one, of the acute infection,” he said. “We are now looking at genetic factors to identify who might be most at risk.”CFS affects an estimated 100,000 Australians and is diagnosed when there is a disabling fatigue state that persists for six months or more, without any alternative medical or psychiatric explanation for the illness.Of the first 253 participants in the Dubbo Study, 28 (11 percent) met the diagnostic criteria for CFS.“Our research also overturns a lot of misconceptions about CFS,” said Professor Lloyd.“We looked at age, sex, education, personality style, and psychiatric health and it turns out that none of those things predict the outcome,” said Professor Lloyd of the team’s work, which has been published in the prestigious British Medical Journal. “This finding argues against the popular belief that CFS is a psychological disorder."Professor Lloyd said the positive news is that most people who suffer post-infective fatigue syndrome do get better without medical intervention. While ten percent of people have the condition at six months, only five percent have it at 12 months.“About 99 percent of people are better within a couple of years,” said Professor Lloyd. “While that’s still not good, there’s a notion in the community that people with CFS never get better. This work goes to disprove yet another myth about the condition.”The research team is comprised of scientists from UNSW and the University of Sydney. The study been funded by the National Health and Medical Research Council of Australia and the Centers for Disease Control, USA.Contact details: Susi Hamilton, UNSW Media unit, 9385 1583 or 0422 934 024

[infections] Re: Is there a virus going on????

Bob, the person who asked me about this was mentioning HHV6a, and I have followed Knox and Carrigan's work, somewhat. I find myself thinking that roseola is like EBV - reactivated because something else is going on. But, hey, I could have it all backwards, and there could still be ANOTHER virus we haven't even uncovered.Like you, I tend to think that we know the bacteria such as mycoplasma and borrelia is serious and potentially treatable. We don't know if the antivirals will work for cfs, and they are much risker.I would welcome any more input on this topic from all.a Carnes>> a,> > I read somewhere that it's a big deal whether you're talking HHV6a or > HHV6b. I can never remember which is which, but they are different > enough that some feel they should have different designations rather > than just an appended suffix. Some research has studied HHV6 in general > without distinguishing subtypes, others have studied one or the other, > and it has produced much confusion and slowed down progress.> > There are certainly folks who feel that HHV6 is a player in CFS. Sorry > but it's been something like 8 years since I focused on viral causes, > largely because there is so little that seems to be actionable about > viruses anyway ... especially for the chemically sensitive. Gancyclovir > and the like are hard on the liver and kidneys of healthy people ... > they are all the more risky for people with impaired detox pathways.> > --Bob> > pjeanneus wrote:> >> > Anybody here know much about HHV6a? Is it a player in cfs? Would any> > of you treat cfs with antivirals? What chance is there that there is> > some "HIV" thing going on in the world that has not been discovered?> > Think the lady in Philly who researched a virus, then no more was> > heard, no money spent...> >> > a Carnes> >> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.> > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.9/719 - Release Date: 3/12/2007 8:41 AM> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear a

I include a quote from Garth Nicolson

"We actually published a paper (Nicolson GL, Gan R, Haier J.Multiple co-infections (Mycoplasma, Chlamydia, Human Herpesvirus-6)in blood of chronic fatigue syndrome patients: association with signsand symptoms. Acta Pathol Microbiol Immunol Scand 2003; 111: 557-566 ) that came to similar conclusions with CFS patients who were tested for multiple co- infections. The number of bacterial or viral co-infections found (and we only looked for a few) in CFS patients correlated with the severity of signs and symptoms but not the type of infection.Thus a similar outcome would be expected independent of the infectiontype, if the infection caused morbidity in genetically susceptibleindividuals.The more infections found--the more severe the signs and symptoms or the more signs/symptoms found. I would guess that the more infections--the greater the oxidative stress (more ROS/RNS) and the lower the concentrations of the cellular antioxidants, such as glutathione and other antioxidants.When certain infections are present, and the list is growing, in CFSpatients, they need to be addressed and adequately suppressed in order to reduce and important source of oxidative stress.Oxidative stress is becoming more important than previously thoughtin a variety of chronic diseases, from type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular diseases to neurodegenerative diseases.Garth"

This is in agreement with the Dubbo study (Lloyd etc.) which found similar CFS sequellae in the three groups of patients studied two with vral illness and one bacterial. The upshot was that about 11% of patients with long standing infections developed CFS symptoms regardless of the infection. Lloyd inferred a genetic predisposition to CFS if I remember correctly.

Regards

R

[infections] Is there a virus going on????

Anybody here know much about HHV6a? Is it a player in cfs? Would any of you treat cfs with antivirals? What chance is there that there is some "HIV" thing going on in the world that has not been discovered? Think the lady in Philly who researched a virus, then no more was heard, no money spent...a Carnes

[Guest guest]

Yes, I test positive for several viruses and several

bacterial infections and 3 weeks ago I became

violently ill with veritgo, pain and vomiting and LOST

the hearing in my left ear. I am currently taking 1500

mg of Famvir ea day for 10 days = prednisone. The

veritgo is better but the prognosis for the deafness

is not good.

Marie

--- pjeanneus <pj7@...> wrote:

> Bob, the person who asked me about this was

> mentioning HHV6a, and I

> have followed Knox and Carrigan's work, somewhat. I

> find myself

> thinking that roseola is like EBV - reactivated

> because something

> else is going on. But, hey, I could have it all

> backwards, and there

> could still be ANOTHER virus we haven't even

> uncovered.

>

> Like you, I tend to think that we know the bacteria

> such as

> mycoplasma and borrelia is serious and potentially

> treatable. We

> don't know if the antivirals will work for cfs, and

> they are much

> risker.

>

> I would welcome any more input on this topic from

> all.

>

> a Carnes

>

> >

> > a,

> >

> > I read somewhere that it's a big deal whether

> you're talking HHV6a

> or

> > HHV6b. I can never remember which is which, but

> they are different

> > enough that some feel they should have different

> designations

> rather

> > than just an appended suffix. Some research has

> studied HHV6 in

> general

> > without distinguishing subtypes, others have

> studied one or the

> other,

> > and it has produced much confusion and slowed down

> progress.

> >

> > There are certainly folks who feel that HHV6 is a

> player in CFS.

> Sorry

> > but it's been something like 8 years since I

> focused on viral

> causes,

> > largely because there is so little that seems to

> be actionable

> about

> > viruses anyway ... especially for the chemically

> sensitive.

> Gancyclovir

> > and the like are hard on the liver and kidneys of

> healthy

> people ...

> > they are all the more risky for people with

> impaired detox pathways.

> >

> > --Bob

> >

> > pjeanneus wrote:

> > >

> > > Anybody here know much about HHV6a? Is it a

> player in cfs? Would

> any

> > > of you treat cfs with antivirals? What chance is

> there that there

> is

> > > some " HIV " thing going on in the world that has

> not been

> discovered?

> > > Think the lady in Philly who researched a virus,

> then no more was

> > > heard, no money spent...

> > >

> > > a Carnes

> > >

> > >

> > >

>

------------------------------------------------------------------

> ------

> > >

> > > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.9/719

> - Release Date:

> 3/12/2007 8:41 AM

> > >

> >

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

TV dinner still cooling?

Check out " Tonight's Picks " on TV.

http://tv./

[Guest guest]

Do you know why it hides in the trigeminal ganglia? And what else might be hiding there? Does everyone know where this nerve is? The trigeminal nerve is the largest nerve in the body and connects directly to the brain stem. It has 3 branches, the mandibular, which travels just under the jaw, the maxillary, which follows the upper jaw, and the opthalmic, which relates to the eyes. This is why I'm always so outraged by the medieval science known as dentistry. Where they go in and hack around as if they're tinkering on an old car. If herpes heads straight for those nerves, why wouldn't other organisms? Especially if introduced through the jaw? We already know that dentistry can cause heart disease via bacteria being introduced and travelling to the heart. When are people going to wake up and realize

that there's a lot more at risk than the heart? So many people are looking for hidden, latent forms of stealth viruses or faults with the immune system, while ignoring the common but deadly organisms that are introduced through our jaws and are now living the good life protected from the immune system...while we just get sicker and sicker. I'm not saying that every pwc is suffering from a jaw infection, but I'd wager my house that there are a lot more people than one could ever imagine. penny solntsepyati <solntsepyati@...> wrote: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed(Type in abstract number)HIV-1 / HHV6 17209056CCR5 / Borrelia 15885315(Note neuroborreliosis)CCR5 / Delta32 17331851(It is the delta32 receptor that is applicable to studies of the history of the Black Death in Europe, as well as Crimean Congo Hemorrhagic Fever. The unknown virus that apprently caused the Black Death travelled up the Nile [Rift Valley] to disseminate into the eastern Mediterranean.)HHV6 / Sophocarpines 11933118Sophora / EF-1 / Matrine 17291488(Active constituents from Sophora spp. have potent antiviral effects in hepatitis B virus infections, and

may be similar to heat-shock-induced imino sugars from Morus (mulberry), which prevent viral protein folding and maturation and thus, egress from the cell. These imino-sugars are not synthesized in Morus until about the time of the first frost and increasing during the course of a winter season; they act as anti-pathogen compounds while the tree is in its dormancy. Thus, when any herpesvirus first encounters the human immune system, it 'hides' most usually in the trigeminal ganglia, this mechanism is worthy of more study as it relates to secondary plant compounds and dormancy.EF-1 factor is relevant in schizophrenia. See my several-years-old webpage:http://aquaviva11.tripod.com--- In infections , "Patrice " <PKR527@...>

wrote:>> a, it's been widely accepted for a number of years now that HHV6 is a> player in CFS. It's the Roseola virus that most people get exposed to in> childhood & then it goes dormant, but can reactivate later in life. There's> some respected Dr.'s using Transfer Factor (colostrum obtained from cows> that have been inoculated w/a number of viruses (EBV, HHv6, CMV, etc.) & > then by taking the TF, it helps your body recognize the virus & drive it> back down into dormancy. Many people have had good luck w/this therapy.> Patrice> > > > _____ > > From: infections > [mailto:infections ] On Behalf Of

pjeanneus> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 1:56 PM> infections > Subject: [infections] Is there a virus going on????> > > > Anybody here know much about HHV6a? Is it a player in cfs? Would any > of you treat cfs with antivirals? What chance is there that there is > some "HIV" thing going on in the world that has not been discovered? > Think the lady in Philly who researched a virus, then no more was > heard, no money spent...> > a Carnes>

[Guest guest]

Marie,

Did they test you for a virus three weeks ago? Do they know if this is

viral or bacteria? I had something similar but not as bad 9 months

ago. My case responds to penicillin, but I even had a lumbar puncture

and NOTHING ever showed up.

a

>

> Yes, I test positive for several viruses and several

> bacterial infections and 3 weeks ago I became

> violently ill with veritgo, pain and vomiting and LOST

> the hearing in my left ear. I am currently taking 1500

> mg of Famvir ea day for 10 days = prednisone. The

> veritgo is better but the prognosis for the deafness

> is not good.

> Marie

[Guest guest]

Hi a,

No, I tested positive for HHV-6 and CMV several years

ago. I took Valtrex for a couple of years and then

after a big flare I started taking Famvir.

Three weeks ago I ended up in the ER with the room

spinned, vomiting violently and having lost my hearing

during the night. I was told I had Labyrinthitis or

possibly Menierres.Was given meds for vertigo and

nausea. Next I saw the PC who told me the same thing

but did not perscribe any meds. Played phone tag with

my ENT for 3 weeks. When I finally saw him he gave me

Famvir 500mg 3xs day and prednisone. The famvir gave

me severe reactions. I guess you can have toxic die

off from virus too. I first had siezure like activity

and panic attacks. Then I had vertigo and a feeling of

being drunk. Now after a week on meds I am not getting

the severe die off. I just get very tired. I am also

taking D3 for Cpn.

My vertigo is better although I still have some

trouble with balance. It comes and goes. The hearing

loss in my L ear is profound and probably irreversible

according to the audiologist.

Marie

--- pjeanneus <pj7@...> wrote:

> Marie,

> Did they test you for a virus three weeks ago? Do

> they know if this is

> viral or bacteria? I had something similar but not

> as bad 9 months

> ago. My case responds to penicillin, but I even had

> a lumbar puncture

> and NOTHING ever showed up.

>

> a

>

>

> >

> > Yes, I test positive for several viruses and

> several

> > bacterial infections and 3 weeks ago I became

> > violently ill with veritgo, pain and vomiting and

> LOST

> > the hearing in my left ear. I am currently taking

> 1500

> > mg of Famvir ea day for 10 days = prednisone. The

> > veritgo is better but the prognosis for the

> deafness

> > is not good.

> > Marie

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Need Mail bonding?

Go to the Q & A for great tips from Answers users.

http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396546091

[Guest guest]

Marie, I am sorry you are going through this. I was fortunate that

although both vestibular nerves were affected my hearing was not.

One thing became very clear - the docs have no clue how to diagnose

what causes any of this.

a

>

> Hi a,

> No, I tested positive for HHV-6 and CMV several years

> ago. I took Valtrex for a couple of years and then

> after a big flare I started taking Famvir.

>

> Three weeks ago I ended up in the ER with the room

> spinned, vomiting violently and having lost my hearing

> during the night. I was told I had Labyrinthitis or

> possibly Menierres.Was given meds for vertigo and

> nausea. Next I saw the PC who told me the same thing

> but did not perscribe any meds. Played phone tag with

> my ENT for 3 weeks. When I finally saw him he gave me

> Famvir 500mg 3xs day and prednisone. The famvir gave

> me severe reactions. I guess you can have toxic die

> off from virus too. I first had siezure like activity

> and panic attacks. Then I had vertigo and a feeling of

> being drunk. Now after a week on meds I am not getting

> the severe die off. I just get very tired. I am also

> taking D3 for Cpn.

> My vertigo is better although I still have some

> trouble with balance. It comes and goes. The hearing

> loss in my L ear is profound and probably irreversible

> according to the audiologist.

> Marie

> --- pjeanneus <pj7@...> wrote:

>

> > Marie,

> > Did they test you for a virus three weeks ago? Do

> > they know if this is

> > viral or bacteria? I had something similar but not

> > as bad 9 months

> > ago. My case responds to penicillin, but I even had

> > a lumbar puncture

> > and NOTHING ever showed up.

> >

> > a

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Yes, I test positive for several viruses and

> > several

> > > bacterial infections and 3 weeks ago I became

> > > violently ill with veritgo, pain and vomiting and

> > LOST

> > > the hearing in my left ear. I am currently taking

> > 1500

> > > mg of Famvir ea day for 10 days = prednisone. The

> > > veritgo is better but the prognosis for the

> > deafness

> > > is not good.

> > > Marie

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________

> Need Mail bonding?

> Go to the Q & A for great tips from Answers users.

> http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396546091

>

[Guest guest]

>>>>>>>>>>One thing became very clear - the docs have no clue how to

diagnose

what causes any of this.<<<<<<<<<<

a

I think we've been trying to tell everyone all along, that you have a

better chance of diagnosis by the " RINGLING BROTHERS " .Medicine and

the people in it are all about the MONEY, I have found a diagnosis is

a whole other matter whenever your trying to discover anything.And

the beauty of all this is they throw this stuff up 90 % of the time

with people seeking all myriads of a diagnosis for many conditions..

So again I warn people to make sure they are getting CUTTING EDGE

SCREENING with KNOWLEDGABLE PEOPLE, not the hacks thrown at you. The

hacks part of the system is jobs for the boys and referral money.

tony

> >

> > > Marie,

> > > Did they test you for a virus three weeks ago? Do

> > > they know if this is

> > > viral or bacteria? I had something similar but not

> > > as bad 9 months

> > > ago. My case responds to penicillin, but I even had

> > > a lumbar puncture

> > > and NOTHING ever showed up.

> > >

> > > a

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Yes, I test positive for several viruses and

> > > several

> > > > bacterial infections and 3 weeks ago I became

> > > > violently ill with veritgo, pain and vomiting and

> > > LOST

> > > > the hearing in my left ear. I am currently taking

> > > 1500

> > > > mg of Famvir ea day for 10 days = prednisone. The

> > > > veritgo is better but the prognosis for the

> > > deafness

> > > > is not good.

> > > > Marie

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

______________________________________________________________________

> ______________

> > Need Mail bonding?

> > Go to the Q & A for great tips from Answers

users.

> > http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396546091

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I know, I was very frustrated by the time I got

to my ENT. His dx is viral and I do believe it as I

had the flu like illness with it and felt like other

times when I have had extremely high HHV-6 titers.Also

because I am reacting so remarkably to the Famvir

therapy. Of course I don't know how much of it is

bacterial or if one exasperates the other. I was/am on

the Vanderbilt protocol for Cpn if you remember but my

reactions were so strong as to be intolerable at times

especially from the Flagyl. Now Dr. wants to try me on

high doses Vit D3 to build the immune system and maybe

then go back to antibiotics. The infection in my

sinuses has responded well to an inhaled compound of

Ketoconazol and Gentimiacyn since surgery but it did

flare up with this vertigo episode as well. ( Forgive

me if I have spelled the antibiotics wrong... don't

want to bother to look up spelling right now.

One thing that frustrated me was that before I went to

ENT I went to the dr. treating for CFS/FM and he

wouldn't perscribe anything for my ear. I asked him

for prednisone as I read online that sometimes the

hearing can be saved if prednisone is given within a

few days. He compartmentalized the ear thing. I wanted

to scream at him.... It is all related!!! Help me out

here. He has practically forced prednisone on me in

the past when my joints were screaming with pain. I

never wanted to take it. But to save my ear he refused

to treat.

Well, it's all in the past now but never the less

frustrating.

Marie

Marie

--- dumbaussie2000 <dumbaussie2000@...>

wrote:

>

> >>>>>>>>>>One thing became very clear - the docs

> have no clue how to

> diagnose

> what causes any of this.<<<<<<<<<<

>

> a

> I think we've been trying to tell everyone all

> along, that you have a

> better chance of diagnosis by the " RINGLING

> BROTHERS " .Medicine and

> the people in it are all about the MONEY, I have

> found a diagnosis is

> a whole other matter whenever your trying to

> discover anything.And

> the beauty of all this is they throw this stuff up

> 90 % of the time

> with people seeking all myriads of a diagnosis for

> many conditions..

>

> So again I warn people to make sure they are getting

> CUTTING EDGE

> SCREENING with KNOWLEDGABLE PEOPLE, not the hacks

> thrown at you. The

> hacks part of the system is jobs for the boys and

> referral money.

> tony

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > > Marie,

> > > > Did they test you for a virus three weeks ago?

> Do

> > > > they know if this is

> > > > viral or bacteria? I had something similar but

> not

> > > > as bad 9 months

> > > > ago. My case responds to penicillin, but I

> even had

> > > > a lumbar puncture

> > > > and NOTHING ever showed up.

> > > >

> > > > a

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, I test positive for several viruses and

> > > > several

> > > > > bacterial infections and 3 weeks ago I

> became

> > > > > violently ill with veritgo, pain and

> vomiting and

> > > > LOST

> > > > > the hearing in my left ear. I am currently

> taking

> > > > 1500

> > > > > mg of Famvir ea day for 10 days =

> prednisone. The

> > > > > veritgo is better but the prognosis for the

> > > > deafness

> > > > > is not good.

> > > > > Marie

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

______________________________________________________________________

> > ______________

> > > Need Mail bonding?

> > > Go to the Q & A for great tips from

> Answers

> users.

> > >

>

http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396546091

> > >

> >

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast

with the Search weather shortcut.

http://tools.search./shortcuts/#loc_weather

[Guest guest]

MArie

I find what your going thru extremely frustrating. 'I THINK it's

viral' isn't a good enough diagnosis to loose your hearing over.

Imagine a swab that reveals heavy growth of pseudonomas. Actually

better still send me a swab from your ear and it won't cost you a

thing, I would love to see the look on your lazy ass doctors face if

it's a heavy growth of pseudonomas from the sinus region that's

taking a huge toll on you.This 'I think' and 'it may be', is not

acceptable if your falling apart at the seams..viral cultures and

bacterial cultures GLEAM INFORMATION and offer the best possable

strategies to move someone forward- the strategies and stuff being

offered in your case is why I curse and scream...Antivirals also

interfere with bacterial growth so a good response means nothing.

Antivirals are also the drug taken before the virus establishes once

established they often don't do squat...Flagyl does early in an

infecxtion offer some help, but after IT " S GONE, all it does is

annoy your infection..Marie you also have to understand that the FDA

no longer approves pill antibiuotics in the treatment of ear

infections because they know the biofilms and colonies don't get

eradicated and the follow up onslaught is worse than the initial

infection..they also got sick of watching a 90 % failure rate by

modern medicine in the treatment of these conditions.The usual bull

is try antibiotics and add the ear tubes to supposedly fix young kids.

This is why you'll observe me curse and carry on, because often what

someone is actually going thru and the piss poor strategies being

offered or practised are so far removed from what the patient needs..

I get sick of reading about how a pill is supposed to carry away all

these toxins and heavy metals.I come from the show me the money camp

wherby like a business things have to run succesfully and positively-

I think, and maybe, and theories, don't come into play with me, I

want GRUNT, POSITIVE, NO NONSENSE STRATEGIES to satisfy my

understanding of what I've been thru and people are going thru..

> > > >

> > > > > Marie,

> > > > > Did they test you for a virus three weeks ago?

> > Do

> > > > > they know if this is

> > > > > viral or bacteria? I had something similar but

> > not

> > > > > as bad 9 months

> > > > > ago. My case responds to penicillin, but I

> > even had

> > > > > a lumbar puncture

> > > > > and NOTHING ever showed up.

> > > > >

> > > > > a

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes, I test positive for several viruses and

> > > > > several

> > > > > > bacterial infections and 3 weeks ago I

> > became

> > > > > > violently ill with veritgo, pain and

> > vomiting and

> > > > > LOST

> > > > > > the hearing in my left ear. I am currently

> > taking

> > > > > 1500

> > > > > > mg of Famvir ea day for 10 days =

> > prednisone. The

> > > > > > veritgo is better but the prognosis for the

> > > > > deafness

> > > > > > is not good.

> > > > > > Marie

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

______________________________________________________________________

> > > ______________

> > > > Need Mail bonding?

> > > > Go to the Q & A for great tips from

> > Answers

> > users.

> > > >

> >

> http://answers./dir/?link=list & sid=396546091

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________

> Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast

> with the Search weather shortcut.

> http://tools.search./shortcuts/#loc_weather

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Dear a

come on pj, you know i just bought my latest book -- now i figure you

out, you run around all these sites and stir up you know what.

Human herpesvirus-6 2nd edition by Krueger and Ablashi (of HHV-6

Foundation) who's group is doing the study with vgc=valganciclovir;

AND

you kick off this thread with a leading question like that??

The book is the book, yes 6a could kick this off, you know if you got

my link from the other site i left. For those who can't concentrate,

have hi EBV and 6b, then you need this. Buy this book so I can rap

with some people, as Ken refused to put this topic up. Say what? So

I leave the site, yes I leave the site. So I am here and one other

place till I decide where I like better. I need one group to dump

on, but I know how to clean up after myself too.

so, was on valcyte in '01 when it first came out, and now again for a

second time. does it work for me, yes. could somebody be getting

other co-infections as the years go by. sure. should you treat

everything you find yes.

you can get this book on amazon, make sure its the 2nd edition

though, and you will find some answers. just got it yesterday so

please give me a few minutes and you'll be getting some opinions. My

opinions on this that i have posted on the other site have so far

been dead bang on, as medicine makes sense-- because the guy who made

it makes sense.

Mike... don't ask. (80% better on vgc, acute onset CFS '01; currently

checking for other " Stuff " to beat up on too- but not people!). (;-)

I like winks, not smiles.

[Guest guest]

> >

6a and cfs: incidence 400/100,000

now believed subsets of cfs have active hhv6a infection

patnaik, et al 1995, ablashi et al 2000

pcr data show 35% of cfs pts w cognitive disorders have 6a active

although frequency detected is low due to inaccuracy of the pcr assay;

all + csf samples with hhv6 done in usa were 6a+

majority of plasma samples by pcr or taqman assay were 6a+

diluca study 1995 showed all his cfs pts were 6a+

" the specific serological assays to detect variant-specific

antibodies and more sensitive molecular probes for PCR would be

helpful in strengthening the association of HHV-6A and the

pathogenesis of CFS " .

These assays will probably come from the early IE genes which differ

between 6b and a, and should be available in the near future i would

think. Testing for 6a is being provided by Redlabs (recommended by

hhv-6 foundation, and wisconsin lab, knox/carrigan with dual nested

PCR test seems the most sensitive to pick it up).

Your choice of antivirals is vgc=valgancyclovir=valcyte= Montoya

protocol (ebv and 6b > 1:320) or cidofavir (which has more toxicity,

renal etc.)...these are the main guys. Sad thing is the people that

need to read this probably won't be able to...cognitive

deficits/confusion weigh heavily in the choice to go on these along

with the labs. If your ebv and 6b are up and fairly severe

cognitive= valcyte study. Roche has a pt assistance program for

those who can't afford it. cheapest source = canadadrugs.com

1400, 2000+/mo in US. 450 mg twice day, induction of 3 day for 7-10

days, monitor cbc, ptlt, alt/ast - main side effect bone marrow

suppression. never heard of it yet, and wouldn't let this stop me

from going on it. i take it. better.

from HHV-6 2nd ed. Krueger & Ablashi.

Eat more valcyte.

Not for everybody...but there are definitely subsets.

more to come...

[Guest guest]

Um, there used to be an old movie called " Gaslight. " Mike, are you

gaslighting me, or is my brain fried?

I don't remember what book you just got. Seriously.

a

> >

> > Dear a

> come on pj, you know i just bought my latest book -- now i figure

you

> out, you run around all these sites and stir up you know what.

>

> Human herpesvirus-6 2nd edition by Krueger and Ablashi (of HHV-6

> Foundation) who's group is doing the study with vgc=valganciclovir;

> AND

> you kick off this thread with a leading question like that??

>

> The book is the book, yes 6a could kick this off, you know if you

got

> my link from the other site i left. For those who can't

concentrate,

> have hi EBV and 6b, then you need this. Buy this book so I can rap

> with some people, as Ken refused to put this topic up. Say what?

So

> I leave the site, yes I leave the site. So I am here and one other

> place till I decide where I like better. I need one group to dump

> on, but I know how to clean up after myself too.

>

> so, was on valcyte in '01 when it first came out, and now again for

a

> second time. does it work for me, yes. could somebody be getting

> other co-infections as the years go by. sure. should you treat

> everything you find yes.

>

> you can get this book on amazon, make sure its the 2nd edition

> though, and you will find some answers. just got it yesterday so

> please give me a few minutes and you'll be getting some opinions.

My

> opinions on this that i have posted on the other site have so far

> been dead bang on, as medicine makes sense-- because the guy who

made

> it makes sense.

>

> Mike... don't ask. (80% better on vgc, acute onset CFS '01;

currently

> checking for other " Stuff " to beat up on too- but not people!). (;-

)

> I like winks, not smiles.

>

[Guest guest]

Okay, guys, you know me. I will ask the simple, stupid sixth grade

questions.

Why get tested for viruses when you know you have several severe

bacteria - 2 mycoplasmas, borrelia, babesia?

What if you just had a lumbar puncture, tested for most things known

to man, and all negative? Should you still get tested for viruses?

What if you injected Zadaxin for six months and a lot of money WITH

NO NOTICABLE IMPROVEMENT AT ALL?

K.I.S.S.

PJ

> >

> >

> > >

> 6a and cfs: incidence 400/100,000

> now believed subsets of cfs have active hhv6a infection

> patnaik, et al 1995, ablashi et al 2000

> pcr data show 35% of cfs pts w cognitive disorders have 6a active

> although frequency detected is low due to inaccuracy of the pcr

assay;

> all + csf samples with hhv6 done in usa were 6a+

> majority of plasma samples by pcr or taqman assay were 6a+

> diluca study 1995 showed all his cfs pts were 6a+

> " the specific serological assays to detect variant-specific

> antibodies and more sensitive molecular probes for PCR would be

> helpful in strengthening the association of HHV-6A and the

> pathogenesis of CFS " .

> These assays will probably come from the early IE genes which

differ

> between 6b and a, and should be available in the near future i

would

> think. Testing for 6a is being provided by Redlabs (recommended by

> hhv-6 foundation, and wisconsin lab, knox/carrigan with dual nested

> PCR test seems the most sensitive to pick it up).

>

> Your choice of antivirals is vgc=valgancyclovir=valcyte= Montoya

> protocol (ebv and 6b > 1:320) or cidofavir (which has more

toxicity,

> renal etc.)...these are the main guys. Sad thing is the people

that

> need to read this probably won't be able to...cognitive

> deficits/confusion weigh heavily in the choice to go on these along

> with the labs. If your ebv and 6b are up and fairly severe

> cognitive= valcyte study. Roche has a pt assistance program for

> those who can't afford it. cheapest source = canadadrugs.com

> 1400, 2000+/mo in US. 450 mg twice day, induction of 3 day for 7-

10

> days, monitor cbc, ptlt, alt/ast - main side effect bone marrow

> suppression. never heard of it yet, and wouldn't let this stop me

> from going on it. i take it. better.

>

> from HHV-6 2nd ed. Krueger & Ablashi.

> Eat more valcyte.

> Not for everybody...but there are definitely subsets.

> more to come...

>

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure what point rwindsor is trying to make exactly. If a viral cause could be pinpointed and I knew there was a treatment for it, seems like it would make sense to get tested. But personally, I KNOW I have bacteria in my bone that make me ill. They've been identifitied and so have the drugs they're resistant to and the drugs that kill them. Killing a good amount of them always results in my improvement. For me, a viral cause doesn't add up. But it might for someone else. We know viruses can make people very sick. I just have too much evidence in my own case to support a bacterial cause. penny pjeanneus <pj7@...> wrote: Okay, guys, you know me. I will ask the simple, stupid sixth grade questions. Why get tested for viruses when you know you have several severe bacteria - 2 mycoplasmas, borrelia, babesia?What if you just had a lumbar puncture, tested for most things known to man, and all negative? Should you still get tested for viruses?What if you injected Zadaxin for six months and a lot of money WITH NO NOTICABLE IMPROVEMENT AT ALL?K.I.S.S.PJ> >> > > > >> 6a and cfs: incidence 400/100,000> now believed subsets of cfs have active hhv6a infection > patnaik, et al 1995, ablashi et al 2000> pcr data show 35% of cfs pts w cognitive disorders have 6a active> although frequency detected is low due to inaccuracy of the pcr assay;> all + csf samples with hhv6 done in usa were 6a+> majority of plasma samples by pcr or taqman assay were 6a+> diluca study 1995 showed all his cfs pts were 6a+ > "the specific serological assays to detect variant-specific > antibodies and more sensitive molecular probes for PCR would be > helpful in strengthening the association of HHV-6A and the > pathogenesis of CFS". > These assays will probably come from the early IE genes which differ > between 6b and a, and should be available in the near future i would > think. Testing for 6a is being

provided by Redlabs (recommended by > hhv-6 foundation, and wisconsin lab, knox/carrigan with dual nested > PCR test seems the most sensitive to pick it up). > > Your choice of antivirals is vgc=valgancyclovir=valcyte= Montoya > protocol (ebv and 6b > 1:320) or cidofavir (which has more toxicity, > renal etc.)...these are the main guys. Sad thing is the people that > need to read this probably won't be able to...cognitive > deficits/confusion weigh heavily in the choice to go on these along > with the labs. If your ebv and 6b are up and fairly severe > cognitive= valcyte study. Roche has a pt assistance program for > those who can't afford it. cheapest source = canadadrugs.com > 1400, 2000+/mo in US. 450 mg twice day, induction of 3 day for 7-10 > days, monitor cbc, ptlt, alt/ast - main side effect bone marrow > suppression. never heard of it yet, and

wouldn't let this stop me > from going on it. i take it. better. > > from HHV-6 2nd ed. Krueger & Ablashi.> Eat more valcyte.> Not for everybody...but there are definitely subsets.> more to come...>

[Guest guest]

Dear Penny

The point I was attempting to make was both bacteria and viruses lead to CFS (Lloyd's Dubbo study) with equal frequency. This leads one to believe that the pathogen is not as important as the genetic predisposition and environment.

When I am old and grey and have managed to read a few more papers I will spring apon you all , my new theories, but until then, lets just say, Rickettsias and Lyme are associated with the onset of my CFS, Epstein Barr with the consolidation and maintenance and tick toxins with relapses.

Underlying all this is a neurological process which, at this stage, I cannot explain , but seems to be a marker for illness behaviour.

Regards

Windsor

Re: [infections] Re: Is there a virus going on????

I'm not sure what point rwindsor is trying to make exactly.

If a viral cause could be pinpointed and I knew there was a treatment for it, seems like it would make sense to get tested.

But personally, I KNOW I have bacteria in my bone that make me ill. They've been identifitied and so have the drugs they're resistant to and the drugs that kill them. Killing a good amount of them always results in my improvement. For me, a viral cause doesn't add up. But it might for someone else. We know viruses can make people very sick. I just have too much evidence in my own case to support a bacterial cause.

penny

pjeanneus <pj7@...> wrote:

Okay, guys, you know me. I will ask the simple, stupid sixth grade questions. Why get tested for viruses when you know you have several severe bacteria - 2 mycoplasmas, borrelia, babesia?What if you just had a lumbar puncture, tested for most things known to man, and all negative? Should you still get tested for viruses?What if you injected Zadaxin for six months and a lot of money WITH NO NOTICABLE IMPROVEMENT AT ALL?K.I.S.S.PJ> >> > > > >> 6a and cfs: incidence 400/100,000> now believed subsets of cfs have active hhv6a infection > patnaik, et al 1995, ablashi et al 2000> pcr data show 35% of cfs pts w cognitive disorders have 6a active> although frequency detected is low due to inaccuracy of the pcr assay;> all + csf samples with hhv6 done in usa were 6a+> majority of plasma samples by pcr or taqman assay were 6a+> diluca study 1995 showed all his cfs pts were 6a+ > "the specific serological assays to detect variant-specific > antibodies and more sensitive molecular probes for PCR would be > helpful in strengthening the association of HHV-6A and the > pathogenesis of CFS". > These assays will probably come from the early IE genes which differ > between 6b and a, and should be available in the near future i would > think. Testing for 6a is being provided by Redlabs (recommended by > hhv-6 foundation, and wisconsin lab, knox/carrigan with dual nested > PCR test seems the most sensitive to pick it up). > > Your choice of antivirals is vgc=valgancyclovir=valcyte= Montoya > protocol (ebv and 6b > 1:320) or cidofavir (which has more toxicity, > renal etc.)...these are the main guys. Sad thing is the people that > need to read this probably won't be able to...cognitive > deficits/confusion weigh heavily in the choice to go on these along > with the labs. If your ebv and 6b are up and fairly severe > cognitive= valcyte study. Roche has a pt assistance program for > those who can't afford it. cheapest source = canadadrugs.com > 1400, 2000+/mo in US. 450 mg twice day, induction of 3 day for 7-10 > days, monitor cbc, ptlt, alt/ast - main side effect bone marrow > suppression. never heard of it yet, an d wouldn't let this stop me > from going on it. i take it. better. > > from HHV-6 2nd ed. Krueger & Ablashi.> Eat more valcyte.> Not for everybody...but there are definitely subsets.> more to come...>

[Guest guest]

Illness behavior? While you're at it, be sure to study the hardiness of organisms and how they can build resistance to whatever attacks them. penny Windsor <rwindsor@...> wrote: Dear Penny The point I was attempting to make was both bacteria and viruses lead to CFS (Lloyd's Dubbo study) with equal frequency. This leads one to believe that the

pathogen is not as important as the genetic predisposition and environment. When I am old and grey and have managed to read a few more papers I will spring apon you all , my new theories, but until then, lets just say, Rickettsias and Lyme are associated with the onset of my CFS, Epstein Barr with the consolidation and maintenance and tick toxins with relapses. Underlying all this is a neurological process which, at this stage, I cannot explain , but seems to be a marker for illness behaviour. Regards Windsor Re: [infections] Re: Is there a virus going on???? I'm not sure what point rwindsor is trying to make exactly. If a viral cause could be pinpointed and I knew there was a treatment for it, seems like it would make sense to get tested. But personally, I KNOW I have bacteria in my bone that make me ill. They've been identifitied and so have the drugs they're resistant to and the drugs that kill them. Killing a good amount of them always results in my improvement. For me, a viral cause doesn't add up. But it

might for someone else. We know viruses can make people very sick. I just have too much evidence in my own case to support a bacterial cause. penny pjeanneus <pj7@...> wrote: Okay, guys, you know me. I will ask the simple, stupid sixth grade questions. Why get tested for viruses when you know you have several severe bacteria - 2 mycoplasmas, borrelia, babesia?What if you just had a lumbar puncture, tested for most things known to man, and all negative? Should you still get tested for viruses?What if you injected Zadaxin for six months and a lot of money WITH NO NOTICABLE IMPROVEMENT AT ALL?K.I.S.S.PJ> >> > > > >> 6a and cfs: incidence 400/100,000> now believed subsets of cfs have active hhv6a infection > patnaik, et al 1995, ablashi et al 2000> pcr data show 35% of cfs pts w cognitive disorders have 6a active> although frequency detected is low due to inaccuracy of the pcr assay;> all + csf samples with hhv6 done in usa were 6a+> majority of plasma samples by pcr or taqman assay were 6a+> diluca study 1995 showed all his cfs pts were 6a+ > "the specific serological assays to detect variant-specific > antibodies and more sensitive molecular probes for PCR would be > helpful in strengthening the association of HHV-6A and the > pathogenesis of CFS". > These assays will probably come from the early IE

genes which differ > between 6b and a, and should be available in the near future i would > think. Testing for 6a is being provided by Redlabs (recommended by > hhv-6 foundation, and wisconsin lab, knox/carrigan with dual nested > PCR test seems the most sensitive to pick it up). > > Your choice of antivirals is vgc=valgancyclovir=valcyte= Montoya > protocol (ebv and 6b > 1:320) or cidofavir (which has more toxicity, > renal etc.)...these are the main guys. Sad thing is the people that > need to read this probably won't be able to...cognitive > deficits/confusion weigh heavily in the choice to go on these along > with the labs. If your ebv and 6b are up and fairly severe > cognitive= valcyte study. Roche has a pt assistance program for > those who can't afford it. cheapest source = canadadrugs.com > 1400, 2000+/mo in US. 450 mg twice day, induction

of 3 day for 7-10 > days, monitor cbc, ptlt, alt/ast - main side effect bone marrow > suppression. never heard of it yet, an d wouldn't let this stop me > from going on it. i take it. better. > > from HHV-6 2nd ed. Krueger & Ablashi.> Eat more valcyte.> Not for everybody...but there are definitely subsets.> more to come...>

[Guest guest]

Dear Penny

Illness behaviour is the description of the bodies innate response to pathological challenge, not a "psychosocial construct" that the Wessellys of this world infer when talking about CBT etc.

In this light, illness behaviour is to do with the bodies changing immune response to the pathogens changing evasive response (among other things). These responses in the human body appear to be modulated by an, as yet, poorly recognised and undescribed , neurological mechanism.

Best I can do for the moment.

Regards

R

Re: [infections] Re: Is there a virus going on????

I'm not sure what point rwindsor is trying to make exactly.

If a viral cause could be pinpointed and I knew there was a treatment for it, seems like it would make sense to get tested.

But personally, I KNOW I have bacteria in my bone that make me ill. They've been identifitied and so have the drugs they're resistant to and the drugs that kill them. Killing a good amount of them always results in my improvement. For me, a viral cause doesn't add up. But it might for someone else. We know viruses can make people very sick. I just have too much evidence in my own case to support a bacterial cause.

penny

pjeanneus <pj7@...> wrote:

Okay, guys, you know me. I will ask the simple, stupid sixth grade questions. Why get tested for viruses when you know you have several severe bacteria - 2 mycoplasmas, borrelia, babesia?What if you just had a lumbar puncture, tested for most things known to man, and all negative? Should you still get tested for viruses?What if you injected Zadaxin for six months and a lot of money WITH NO NOTICABLE IMPROVEMENT AT ALL?K.I.S.S.PJ> >> > > > >> 6a and cfs: incidence 400/100,000> now believed subsets of cfs have active hhv6a infection > patnaik, et al 1995, ablashi et al 2000> pcr data show 35% of cfs pts w cognitive disorders have 6a active> although frequency detected is low due to inaccuracy of the pcr assay;> all + csf samples with hhv6 done in usa were 6a+> majority of plasma samples by pcr or taqman assay were 6a+> diluca study 1995 showed all his cfs pts were 6a+ > "the specific serological assays to detect variant-specific > antibodies and more sensitive molecular probes for PCR would be > helpful in strengthening the association of HHV-6A and the > pathogenesis of CFS". > These assays will probably come from the early IE genes which differ > between 6b and a, and should be available in the near future i would > think. Testing for 6a is being provided by Redlabs (recommended by > hhv-6 foundation, and wisconsin lab, knox/carrigan with dual nested > PCR test seems the most sensitive to pick it up). > > Your choice of antivirals is vgc=valgancyclovir=valcyte= Montoya > protocol (ebv and 6b > 1:320) or cidofavir (which has more toxicity, > renal etc.)...these are the main guys. Sad thing is the people that > need to read this probably won't be able to...cognitive > deficits/confusion weigh heavily in the choice to go on these along > with the labs. If your ebv and 6b are up and fairly severe > cognitive= valcyte study. Roche has a pt assistance program for > those who can't afford it. cheapest source = canadadrugs.com > 1400, 2000+/mo in US. 450 mg twice day, inducti on of 3 day for 7-10 > days, monitor cbc, ptlt, alt/ast - main side effect bone marrow > suppression. never heard of it yet, an d wouldn't let this stop me > from going on it. i take it. better. > > from HHV-6 2nd ed. Krueger & Ablashi.> Eat more valcyte.> Not for everybody...but there are definitely subsets.> more to come...>

[Guest guest]

Why is the body always at fault in a pwc and not the pathogen? Would we get this rationale if we had leprosy or TB or flesh eating bacteria? What about the huge increase in MRSA infections in children? Are everyone's immune systems failing at the same time or are the bugs perhaps becoming stronger? penny Windsor <rwindsor@...> wrote: Dear Penny Illness behaviour

is the description of the bodies innate response to pathological challenge, not a "psychosocial construct" that the Wessellys of this world infer when talking about CBT etc. In this light, illness behaviour is to do with the bodies changing immune response to the pathogens changing evasive response (among other things). These responses in the human body appear to be modulated by an, as yet, poorly recognised and undescribed , neurological mechanism. Best I can do for the moment. Regards R Re: [infections] Re: Is there a virus going on???? I'm not sure what point rwindsor is trying to make exactly. If a viral cause could be pinpointed and I knew there was a treatment for it, seems like it would make sense to get tested. But personally, I KNOW I have bacteria in my bone that make me ill. They've been identifitied and

so have the drugs they're resistant to and the drugs that kill them. Killing a good amount of them always results in my improvement. For me, a viral cause doesn't add up. But it might for someone else. We know viruses can make people very sick. I just have too much evidence in my own case to support a bacterial cause. penny pjeanneus <pj7@...> wrote: Okay, guys, you know me. I will ask the simple, stupid sixth grade questions. Why get tested for viruses when you know you have several severe bacteria - 2 mycoplasmas, borrelia, babesia?What if you just had a lumbar puncture, tested for most things known to man, and all negative? Should you still get tested for viruses?What if you injected Zadaxin for six

months and a lot of money WITH NO NOTICABLE IMPROVEMENT AT ALL?K.I.S.S.PJ> >> > > > >> 6a and cfs: incidence 400/100,000> now believed subsets of cfs have active hhv6a infection > patnaik, et al 1995, ablashi et al 2000> pcr data show 35% of cfs pts w cognitive disorders have 6a active> although frequency detected is low due to inaccuracy of the pcr assay;> all + csf samples with hhv6 done in usa were 6a+> majority of plasma samples by pcr or taqman assay were 6a+> diluca study 1995 showed all his cfs pts were 6a+ > "the specific serological assays to detect variant-specific > antibodies and more sensitive molecular probes for PCR would be > helpful in

strengthening the association of HHV-6A and the > pathogenesis of CFS". > These assays will probably come from the early IE genes which differ > between 6b and a, and should be available in the near future i would > think. Testing for 6a is being provided by Redlabs (recommended by > hhv-6 foundation, and wisconsin lab, knox/carrigan with dual nested > PCR test seems the most sensitive to pick it up). > > Your choice of antivirals is vgc=valgancyclovir=valcyte= Montoya > protocol (ebv and 6b > 1:320) or cidofavir (which has more toxicity, > renal etc.)...these are the main guys. Sad thing is the people that > need to read this probably won't be able to...cognitive > deficits/confusion weigh heavily in the choice to go on these along > with the labs. If your ebv and 6b are up and fairly severe > cognitive= valcyte study. Roche has a pt assistance program

for > those who can't afford it. cheapest source = canadadrugs.com > 1400, 2000+/mo in US. 450 mg twice day, inducti on of 3 day for 7-10 > days, monitor cbc, ptlt, alt/ast - main side effect bone marrow > suppression. never heard of it yet, an d wouldn't let this stop me > from going on it. i take it. better. > > from HHV-6 2nd ed. Krueger & Ablashi.> Eat more valcyte.> Not for everybody...but there are definitely subsets.> more to come...>

[Guest guest]

Dear Penny

Perhaps "Nature, red in tooth and claw" is having a little evolutionary fun. In reality, so far, humans look like being one of the less persistent species to have evolved on this planet.

If you are sufficiently dedicated and are able to wade through the 99% of Sturgeonal data to find the remaining 1% which may have validity, you may come to the conclusion that we are eating ourselves to death as a species. When you compare the nutritional balance of an historical Australian Aboriginal diet with some 6000 regularly consumed items with a modern diet comprising less than 20, you may assume there is little leeway to make up micronutrient shortfalls. I think that , here, Rich might be digging in the right patch of ground.(Look at Harold 's stuff)

If you then look at modern agriculture, you will find that all emphasis on nutritional quality has been subjugated by cosmetic appearance..

If it is true "You are what you eat" then we are well on the way out backwards.

As the immune system is very effectively regulated by nutritional status, a hard look at the basics of nutrition would show a correlation between depauperate diet and disrupted immune function.

Darwin may not have been completely right but as "nature abhors a vacuum" , as new ecological niches appear, newly mutated or derived organisms will seek to occupy those niches. Thus, if the immune system is less efficient at repelling invaders, the invaders, in their pursuit of a niche, become more adept at securing a viable environment.

There is no apportionment of "fault" in this system. Just cause and effect.

Regards

R

Re: [infections] Re: Is there a virus going on????

I'm not sure what point rwindsor is trying to make exactly.

If a viral cause could be pinpointed and I knew there was a treatment for it, seems like it would make sense to get tested.

But personally, I KNOW I have bacteria in my bone that make me ill. They've been identifitied and so have the drugs they're resistant to and the drugs that kill them. Killing a good amount of them always results in my improvement. For me, a viral cause doesn't add up. But it might for someone else. We know viruses can make people very sick. I just have too much evidence in my own case to support a bacterial cause.

penny

pjeanneus <pj7@...> wrote:

Okay, guys, you know me. I will ask the simple, stupid sixth grade questions. Why get tested for viruses when you know you have several severe bacteria - 2 mycoplasmas, borrelia, babesia?What if you just had a lumbar puncture, tested for most things known to man, and all negative? Should you still get tested for viruses?What if you injected Zadaxin for six months and a lot of money WITH NO NOTICABLE IMPROVEMENT AT ALL?K.I.S.S.PJ> >> > > > >> 6a and cfs: incidence 400/100,000> now believed subsets of cfs have active hhv6a infection > patnaik, et al 1995, ablashi et al 2000> pcr data show 35% of cfs pts w cognitive disorders have 6a active> although frequency detected is low due to inaccuracy of the pcr assay;> all + csf samples with hhv6 done in usa were 6a+> majority of plasma samples by pcr or taqman assay were 6a+> diluca study 1995 showed all his cfs pts were 6a+ > "the specific serological assays to detect variant-specific > antibodies and more sensitive molecular probes for PCR would be > helpful in strengthening the association of HHV-6A and the > pathogenesis of CFS". > These assays will probably come from the early IE genes which differ > between 6b and a, and should be available in the near future i would > think. Testing for 6a is being provided by Redlabs (recommended by > hhv-6 foundation, and wisconsin lab, knox/carrigan with dual nested > PCR test seems the most sensitive to pick it up). > > Your choice of antivirals is vgc=valgancyclovir=valcyte= Montoya > protocol (ebv and 6b > 1:320) or cidofavir (which has more toxicity, > renal etc.)...these are the main guys. Sad thing is the people that > need to read this probably won't be able to...cognitive > deficits/confusion weigh heavily in the choice to go on these along > with the labs. If your ebv and 6b are up and fairly severe > cognitive= valcyte study. Roche has a pt assistance program for > those who can't afford it. cheapest source = canadadrugs.com > 1400, 2000+/mo in US. 450 mg twice day, inducti on of 3 day for 7-10 > days, monitor cbc, ptlt, alt/ast - main side effect bone marrow > suppression. never heard of it yet, an d wouldn't let this stop me > from going on it. i take it. better. > > from HHV-6 2nd ed. Krueger & Ablashi.> Eat more valcyte.> Not for everybody...but there are definitely subsets.> more to come...>