Re: Montoya's study and mold relevance/IgM

[Guest guest]

Can anyone tell me the

significance of being told that I seem to have a consistently elevated IgM

(plus up-reg ANA)?

Rosie

Have you read Montoya's study on EBV and HHV6?

Looks like viruses, at

least these two, are players. It also looks like healthy people do

not have extremely evlevated IgG titres either. Not to say we don't

all have EBV, just that in some of us it becomes reactivated even

without IgM being high. This link is the complete study done by

Montoya. Everyone on this list should read it.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/6/741817/MontoyaRevised(edited%

29.pdf

Shoemaker has done extensive testing of patients who react to mold -

they have specific genes - the ones who are sick. I have these genes.

My husband has the same staph colonization I do. He never reacts to

moldy buildings. He does have Lyme disease, but no problems with

mold. Neither of us have sinus infections.

a

>

>

> a

> EBV is the most connected time and time again viral infection

> associated with cfs-Yet every researcher and there dog can't place

> this in the cfs jigsaw puzzle, basically because as strange as it

> seems you have high ebv titers and someone perfectly healthy

> alongside you has even higher ebv titers without asnything in his

> anatomy missing a beat.

> So if you want to travel down the path most travelled in this

> condition your not very switched on I'm afraid to say.

>

> On your other complaint YOU REACT TO TOXIC MOLD..what is the

> difference between you and others that stay in a hotel that don't

> react?Maybe it's the bugs in your head/sinus jumping at the threat

> another assault of sorts is on it's way?Do you see how even this

> symptom is IN YOUR HEAD ..Can you observe there's a procession that

> takes place by the bacteria when they are challenged and this

> procession only takes place in the CO2 zones of your body. Or do

you

> think your immune system became jumpy and got all screwed up.. I

> personally no longer have a problem stepping into a dusty used

> bookstore by having addressed my sinus bugs, I think you'd be

> foolish to feel you are in the 4% that don't have some sort of

sinus

> problem if you react like you claim..

> tony

>

>

>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So what infection would dilate veins? I

got this

> pressure

> > > > > > headache,

> > > > > > > > damaged vestibular nerves and vertigo

following a

fever

> > and

> > > > > what

> > > > > > > > looked like a minor viral illness. Now

I have a huge

> > level

> > > of

> > > > > IgG

> > > > > > > > EBV - did I get reactivated mono from

the vocal cord

> exam?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > a in Wonderland

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > My migraines are only helped

through

vasoconstrictors

> > > > > (although

> > > > > > > > vasoconstrictors like Immitrex &

pseudophedrine also

> make

> > > my

> > > > > > heart

> > > > > > > > feel very iffy). But narcotics don't

work at all for

> me.

> > > > Since

> > > > > > > > vasoconstriction helps, that indicates

that increased

> > blood

> > > > > > volume

> > > > > > > > and the resulting pressure on nerves is

one major

cause

> > of

> > > > > > > migraines.

> > > > > > > > Other things may also increase pressure

on those

nerves

> > > (like

> > > > > > > > elevated or fluctuating cerebrospinal

fluid).

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I read recently that a very large

percentage of

> > people

> > > > who

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > surgical forehead lifts suddenly stop

having

migraines.

> > > > Theory

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > that perhaps it desensitizes the nerves

somehow, but

> they

> > > > don't

> > > > > > > > really know.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The other big breakthrough in

migraines was the

> > recent

> > > > > study

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > showed that repairing a small hole

between the

chambers

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > heart

> > > > > > > > (to prevent heart attacks) had the

startling side

> effect

> > of

> > > > > > curing

> > > > > > > > almost everyone who had suffered from

migraines up to

> > that

> > > > > point.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Obviously, migraines (and some

other headaches)

> must

> > be

> > > > > > caused

> > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > vascular problems which cause enough

> > swelling/inflammation

> > > to

> > > > > > cause

> > > > > > > > nerve irritation. For some reason, most

people don't

> > > suffer,

> > > > so

> > > > > > > > either their nerves aren't as sensitive

or apparently

> > their

> > > > > > bodies

> > > > > > > > adapt better to increased intracranial

pressure?

> Perhaps

> > > it's

> > > > > > > people

> > > > > > > > who already have increased csf levels

who are the

ones

> > who

> > > > are

> > > > > > > overly

> > > > > > > > sensitive to headaches as they can't

effectively cope

> > with

> > > > any

> > > > > > > > further increase in pressure whether

vascular,

> hormonal,

> > > > > > > atmospheric

> > > > > > > > or...?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > penny

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Rosie,

IgM is a test run for specific infections. Which infection was being

tested?

Generally a high IgM means you have an acute infection - one you just

got which is making you sick right now. Sometimes folks with chronic

lyme will have positive IgMs for years though. And sometimes people

like me with active Epstein Barr have negative IgMs. Montoya says

negative IgM is meaningless when it comes to EBV.

So what was your test for and did you have some new viral/bacterial

symptoms at the time?

a

>

> Can anyone tell me the significance of being told that I seem to

have a

> consistently elevated IgM (plus up-reg ANA)?

>

> Rosie

>

> Have you read Montoya's study on EBV and HHV6? Looks like viruses,

at

> least these two, are players. It also looks like healthy people do

> not have extremely evlevated IgG titres either. Not to say we don't

> all have EBV, just that in some of us it becomes reactivated even

> without IgM being high. This link is the complete study done by

> Montoya. Everyone on this list should read it.

> http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/6/741817/MontoyaRevised(edited%

> 29.pdf

>

> Shoemaker has done extensive testing of patients who react to mold -

> they have specific genes - the ones who are sick. I have these

genes.

> My husband has the same staph colonization I do. He never reacts to

> moldy buildings. He does have Lyme disease, but no problems with

> mold. Neither of us have sinus infections.

>

> a

>

> >

> >

> > a

> > EBV is the most connected time and time again viral infection

> > associated with cfs-Yet every researcher and there dog can't

place

> > this in the cfs jigsaw puzzle, basically because as strange as it

> > seems you have high ebv titers and someone perfectly healthy

> > alongside you has even higher ebv titers without asnything in his

> > anatomy missing a beat.

> > So if you want to travel down the path most travelled in this

> > condition your not very switched on I'm afraid to say.

> >

> > On your other complaint YOU REACT TO TOXIC MOLD..what is the

> > difference between you and others that stay in a hotel that don't

> > react?Maybe it's the bugs in your head/sinus jumping at the

threat

> > another assault of sorts is on it's way?Do you see how even this

> > symptom is IN YOUR HEAD ..Can you observe there's a procession

that

> > takes place by the bacteria when they are challenged and this

> > procession only takes place in the CO2 zones of your body. Or do

> you

> > think your immune system became jumpy and got all screwed up.. I

> > personally no longer have a problem stepping into a dusty used

> > bookstore by having addressed my sinus bugs, I think you'd be

> > foolish to feel you are in the 4% that don't have some sort of

> sinus

> > problem if you react like you claim..

> > tony

> >

> >

> >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > So what infection would dilate veins? I got this

> > pressure

> > > > > > > headache,

> > > > > > > > > damaged vestibular nerves and vertigo following a

> fever

> > > and

> > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > > looked like a minor viral illness. Now I have a

huge

> > > level

> > > > of

> > > > > > IgG

> > > > > > > > > EBV - did I get reactivated mono from the vocal

cord

> > exam?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > a in Wonderland

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > My migraines are only helped through

> vasoconstrictors

> > > > > > (although

> > > > > > > > > vasoconstrictors like Immitrex & pseudophedrine

also

> > make

> > > > my

> > > > > > > heart

> > > > > > > > > feel very iffy). But narcotics don't work at all

for

> > me.

> > > > > Since

> > > > > > > > > vasoconstriction helps, that indicates that

increased

> > > blood

> > > > > > > volume

> > > > > > > > > and the resulting pressure on nerves is one major

> cause

> > > of

> > > > > > > > migraines.

> > > > > > > > > Other things may also increase pressure on those

> nerves

> > > > (like

> > > > > > > > > elevated or fluctuating cerebrospinal fluid).

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I read recently that a very large percentage of

> > > people

> > > > > who

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > surgical forehead lifts suddenly stop having

> migraines.

> > > > > Theory

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > that perhaps it desensitizes the nerves somehow,

but

> > they

> > > > > don't

> > > > > > > > > really know.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The other big breakthrough in migraines was the

> > > recent

> > > > > > study

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > showed that repairing a small hole between the

> chambers

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > heart

> > > > > > > > > (to prevent heart attacks) had the startling side

> > effect

> > > of

> > > > > > > curing

> > > > > > > > > almost everyone who had suffered from migraines up

to

> > > that

> > > > > > point.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Obviously, migraines (and some other headaches)

> > must

> > > be

> > > > > > > caused

> > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > vascular problems which cause enough

> > > swelling/inflammation

> > > > to

> > > > > > > cause

> > > > > > > > > nerve irritation. For some reason, most people

don't

> > > > suffer,

> > > > > so

> > > > > > > > > either their nerves aren't as sensitive or

apparently

> > > their

> > > > > > > bodies

> > > > > > > > > adapt better to increased intracranial pressure?

> > Perhaps

> > > > it's

> > > > > > > > people

> > > > > > > > > who already have increased csf levels who are the

> ones

> > > who

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > > overly

> > > > > > > > > sensitive to headaches as they can't effectively

cope

> > > with

> > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > further increase in pressure whether vascular,

> > hormonal,

> > > > > > > > atmospheric

> > > > > > > > > or...?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > penny

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

But I think there is also a measurement of IgM, period, that can be

made... with no specificity involved. It measures every IgM you have

all at once, en masse.

> Rosie,

> IgM is a test run for specific infections. Which infection was being

> tested?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi a,

Ah well.. that's the problem - who knows. I was part of those people

attending the 'CFS' clinic at the Heath Hospital in Cardiff so who

knows what they were really trying to prove, and I was simply told I

had raised IgM but not related to anything specific (in other words

they didn't really want to look). I was very hopefully wondering if

therefore it might be related to HHV-6 and therefore fit in with

Montoya's work (wishful thinking I suspect), but I have tried a 3

month course of Isoprinosine (back in 2000) to no benefit (not too

much in the way of side-effects either which was a plus) but I

suspect Isoprinosine is not in quite the same league as Valcyte?

Rosie

>

> Rosie,

> IgM is a test run for specific infections. Which infection was

being

> tested?

>

> Generally a high IgM means you have an acute infection - one you

just

> got which is making you sick right now. Sometimes folks with

chronic

> lyme will have positive IgMs for years though. And sometimes people

> like me with active Epstein Barr have negative IgMs. Montoya says

> negative IgM is meaningless when it comes to EBV.

>

> So what was your test for and did you have some new viral/bacterial

> symptoms at the time?

>

> a

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh right..interesting. If that were the test, and I to my knowledge,

had a raised IgM knowingly for the decade (almost) that I attended

the clinic, does this say anything..other than low grade infection

perhaps?

Rosie

>

>

> But I think there is also a measurement of IgM, period, that can be

> made... with no specificity involved. It measures every IgM you have

> all at once, en masse.

>

>

> > Rosie,

> > IgM is a test run for specific infections. Which infection was

being

> > tested?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Rosie,

suggested that there is a general IgM test of some sort. I don't

know what that would mean.

No, I don't think isoprinosone would equate with Valcyte either in

effect or risk. I was surprised to read recently that ImmunoPro RX is

also a product that reduces viral load. Interesting.

As I recall in the full length Montoya summary of his study both IgM

to EBV and IgM to HHV6 could be negative and still the patients

responded to Valcyte. Looks like maybe the IgM is not a good marker.

BTW this could be part of the reason so many on this list want to

rule out viruses as key players - the YEARS of studies re viruses

have been inconclusive. I see this as another reason why borrelia and

mycoplasma get minimized too - poor tests, not understanding what

synergistic role they all play, not considering that some people are

genetically able to fight off the infections or maybe just healthier.

Lots of questions to answer...

a

>

> Hi a,

>

> Ah well.. that's the problem - who knows. I was part of those

people

> attending the 'CFS' clinic at the Heath Hospital in Cardiff so who

> knows what they were really trying to prove, and I was simply told

I

> had raised IgM but not related to anything specific (in other words

> they didn't really want to look). I was very hopefully wondering

if

> therefore it might be related to HHV-6 and therefore fit in with

> Montoya's work (wishful thinking I suspect), but I have tried a 3

> month course of Isoprinosine (back in 2000) to no benefit (not too

> much in the way of side-effects either which was a plus) but I

> suspect Isoprinosine is not in quite the same league as Valcyte?

> Rosie

>

>

> >

> > Rosie,

> > IgM is a test run for specific infections. Which infection was

> being

> > tested?

> >

> > Generally a high IgM means you have an acute infection - one you

> just

> > got which is making you sick right now. Sometimes folks with

> chronic

> > lyme will have positive IgMs for years though. And sometimes

people

> > like me with active Epstein Barr have negative IgMs. Montoya says

> > negative IgM is meaningless when it comes to EBV.

> >

> > So what was your test for and did you have some new

viral/bacterial

> > symptoms at the time?

> >

> > a

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

a

Why would Anyone want to twist anything on these conditions- I

basically run with the facts. FACT ONE FOR ME WAS-I felt absolutely

back to normal whenever I used the right antibiotic, yet the

infection seems to alway's come back.. therefore early in the piece

I discovered that severe infections don't go away with pee shooter

therapies.. I then followed closely and found people are constantly

plastered with abx after abx for re-occuring urinary tract infections

and other infections that keep refestering- basically because a

retarded one size fits all approach is used in the management of all

types of infections.

Facts on disseminated infections similar in nature to malaria need

serious diagnostics not Igenex positives for borrelia which can be

obtained by anyone, so we keep harping about not being comfortable

with that type of diagnosis. I basically come from a city of 4

million that have the same percentage of cfs sickies that any city

in the US suffers from- yet in my 50 years on the planet I haven't

heard anyone or seen anyone in my city remove, discuss, or have

anything to do with ticks.

The facts on what most people associate with a thing they did before

becoming ill in a questionaire of many thousands was that they took

antibiotics ..This is people being asked 20 or so questions- tipping

over to cfs involved antibiotic use months earlier in many...so how

do you fit in the mono (NO VIRUS IDENTIFIED, OR TREATMENT OFFERED

SCENARIO) by non scientific observation.

tony

> > >

> > > Rosie,

> > > IgM is a test run for specific infections. Which infection was

> > being

> > > tested?

> > >

> > > Generally a high IgM means you have an acute infection - one

you

> > just

> > > got which is making you sick right now. Sometimes folks with

> > chronic

> > > lyme will have positive IgMs for years though. And sometimes

> people

> > > like me with active Epstein Barr have negative IgMs. Montoya

says

> > > negative IgM is meaningless when it comes to EBV.

> > >

> > > So what was your test for and did you have some new

> viral/bacterial

> > > symptoms at the time?

> > >

> > > a

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> If that were the test, and I to my knowledge,

had a raised IgM knowingly for the decade (almost) that I attended

the clinic, does this say anything..other than low grade infection

perhaps?

I'm not sure if it implies infection, or anything really... I don't

really know anything about it.

> Rosie,

> suggested that there is a general IgM test of some sort.

Bear in mind, I'm not totally sure about that. Rosie, maybe you should

check out the test records if you have any to see what the test is titled?

> BTW this could be part of the reason so many on this list want to

> rule out viruses as key players - the YEARS of studies re viruses

> have been inconclusive.

Well, them and everything else...