Re: excess folate and neurotoxicity

[Guest guest]

,

When I developed the severe headache and vestibular nerve damage, my

doc did a B blood level test. All my B levels were off the chart high.

I was only taking Nature's Way B 50 - no way a toxic dose. I have quit

all B vitamins for now. Rich V. is still telling me I should be taking

B 12 etc even though it was extremely high.

Is he right that I have high blood levels because I don't absorb it -

can't use it? I don't know, but I do know that I am now very skeptical

of the Yasko protocol and all the vitamin " information " that has been

thrown at us for years. Something is amiss.

a

>

> Dear All

> I've just got my last blood workups back, everything within the

normal range except for Cholesterol and triglycerides which have

been high all my life and unusually, B12 (about 4 times the

reference minimum) and folate (off the scale around 10 times the

reference minimum).

> The only things I have found so far suggest that excess folate is

neurotoxic ( associated with cognitive decline).

> Any bright ideas out in cyberspace? (verified by my exponentially

bad spelling and perhaps by peripheral neuritis)

> Regards

> Windsor

>

[Guest guest]

,

I can relate. I cannot imagine the mess I have been in for one year

going on for 23 years. And, yes, I understand that it is not easy to

get the ducs to consider all the issues. My MRI was done with no dye

either. I made the mistake of ordering a PCR for borrelia on the

spinal fluid only to learn later that was not an accurate test to run

on spinal fluid. At this point I doubt my health insurance will pick

up the tab on my ideas of further testing. Tony has these lovely

ideas about me getting some of my spinal fluid and a microscope - I

am more likely to have a miracle take place right here in Sin City.

What was your reaction to Diamox?

I seem to be a bit better taking Valtrex and Zithromax, but who

knows. The penicillin and diflucan didn't seem to be doing anything

after 3 months - so much for Schardt and borrelia or just plain old

fungal infections.

I am sorry, but what have you been diagnosed with in terms of

infection? What antibiotics have you taken? My son I mentioned

earlier had severe, unbearable headache and then vertigo and nausea

so bad he had to quit working and driving. The neuro he saw, since

retired, gave him the 4 months of some sort of cefdiner??? - don't

know the name as he can't recall - then he did Chinese herbs, still

does, and has been FINE ever since. Of course, he is young.

a

>

> Dear a

> I guess I was at the end of my tether when I wrote that. I had just

got the results of the CT scan which showed nothing . There was no

contrast agent used so I would expect that the chance of anything

showing would be minimal.

> Having slept on it, I realise that the duc failed to give enough

background to the radiologist to make an informed decision re

technique. I was too brain dead at the time to do anything about it.

> 23 years of unremitting headache

> postural edema

> postural tinnitus

> high risk factors for cerebrospinal pressure irregularities

> weird response to Diamox

> increasing parasthesias

> peripheral neuritis

> gait disturbance and falls

> Nothing wrong? Really?

> Regards

> R

>

[Guest guest]

Are these people (cfs patients you mention) taking B supplements? I

think the first assumption would be to find out if anyone absorbs

vitamin B, any vitamin B, or if it is even a good thing for most

people. I think we need a lot more studies of normal, healthy people

and cfs people to see what vitamin B supplements do.

a Carnes

>

>

> Well, you might want to consider reading Yasko's observations

about

> high B12 levels. There are quite a few PWCs with high blood levels

of

> B12. My own was twice the max the only time it has been measured.

I

> think Yasko and Rich are right -- our bodies aren't using the B12

so

> it's not coming out of the bloodstream. The methylation cycle is

> messed up. I had my sick son's genetics tested per Yasko and his

> genetic mutations are very much in line with her theories. I would

> like to test my own as well, but it's expensive.

>

> I don't know about excess folate. Staring at the folate cycle

> illustration in my Yasko book isn't helping because I forget which

> thing is folate. I see 5 methyl THF and 5, 10 methylene THF, and I

> know there's a folinic acid as well as folic, but I need to study

it

> a few million more times....

>

> - Kate

>

> On May 25, 2007, at 12:23 PM, pjeanneus wrote:

> > ,

> > When I developed the severe headache and vestibular nerve damage,

my

> > doc did a B blood level test. All my B levels were off the chart

high.

> > I was only taking Nature's Way B 50 - no way a toxic dose. I have

quit

> > all B vitamins for now. Rich V. is still telling me I should be

taking

> > B 12 etc even though it was extremely high.

> >

> > Is he right that I have high blood levels because I don't absorb

it -

> > can't use it? I don't know, but I do know that I am now very

skeptical

> > of the Yasko protocol and all the vitamin " information " that has

been

> > thrown at us for years. Something is amiss.

> >

> > a

> >

> > >

> > > Dear All

> > > I've just got my last blood workups back, everything within the

> > normal range except for Cholesterol and triglycerides which have

> > been high all my life and unusually, B12 (about 4 times the

> > reference minimum) and folate (off the scale around 10 times the

> > reference minimum).

> > > The only things I have found so far suggest that excess folate

is

> > neurotoxic ( associated with cognitive decline).

> > > Any bright ideas out in cyberspace? (verified by my

exponentially

> > bad spelling and perhaps by peripheral neuritis)

> > > Regards

> > > Windsor

> > >

>

[Guest guest]

One more comment - all my B levels were high - all of them - and I

wasn't even taking B12 by itself.

a

>

>

> Well, you might want to consider reading Yasko's observations

about

> high B12 levels. There are quite a few PWCs with high blood levels

of

> B12. My own was twice the max the only time it has been measured.

I

> think Yasko and Rich are right -- our bodies aren't using the B12

so

> it's not coming out of the bloodstream. The methylation cycle is

> messed up. I had my sick son's genetics tested per Yasko and his

> genetic mutations are very much in line with her theories. I would

> like to test my own as well, but it's expensive.

>

> I don't know about excess folate. Staring at the folate cycle

> illustration in my Yasko book isn't helping because I forget which

> thing is folate. I see 5 methyl THF and 5, 10 methylene THF, and I

> know there's a folinic acid as well as folic, but I need to study

it

> a few million more times....

>

> - Kate

>

> On May 25, 2007, at 12:23 PM, pjeanneus wrote:

> > ,

> > When I developed the severe headache and vestibular nerve damage,

my

> > doc did a B blood level test. All my B levels were off the chart

high.

> > I was only taking Nature's Way B 50 - no way a toxic dose. I have

quit

> > all B vitamins for now. Rich V. is still telling me I should be

taking

> > B 12 etc even though it was extremely high.

> >

> > Is he right that I have high blood levels because I don't absorb

it -

> > can't use it? I don't know, but I do know that I am now very

skeptical

> > of the Yasko protocol and all the vitamin " information " that has

been

> > thrown at us for years. Something is amiss.

> >

> > a

> >

> > >

> > > Dear All

> > > I've just got my last blood workups back, everything within the

> > normal range except for Cholesterol and triglycerides which have

> > been high all my life and unusually, B12 (about 4 times the

> > reference minimum) and folate (off the scale around 10 times the

> > reference minimum).

> > > The only things I have found so far suggest that excess folate

is

> > neurotoxic ( associated with cognitive decline).

> > > Any bright ideas out in cyberspace? (verified by my

exponentially

> > bad spelling and perhaps by peripheral neuritis)

> > > Regards

> > > Windsor

> > >

>

[Guest guest]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tony has these lovely

> ideas about me getting some of my spinal fluid and a microscope - I

> am more likely to have a miracle take place right here in Sin

City.<<<<<<<<<<

a I assume your a grown up? Firstly you gave spinal fluid and

emphasised you want it sent to IGENEX for borrellia testing..My lab

experience warns people to make sure there samples are REPORTED ON,

NOT AN ASSUMPTION TO BE MADE THAT A CONTAMINATION WAS EVIDENT and

not REPORTED on..So you carry on that you can't do one thing, yet you

did something every doctor in the hospital would consider a stupid

idea and never attempt.I think your going to have a long and lonely

journey in this disease process with your silly belief systems in

place unless you start looking at the amount of INFECTION/ROT

OCCURING IN YOUR HEAD.I think DAvid HAll come on here bragging and

not appreciating or sharing that he had taken care of a lot of huge

infection above his teeth when I grilled him last..

>

>

> ,

> I can relate. I cannot imagine the mess I have been in for one year

> going on for 23 years. And, yes, I understand that it is not easy

to

> get the ducs to consider all the issues. My MRI was done with no

dye

> either. I made the mistake of ordering a PCR for borrelia on the

> spinal fluid only to learn later that was not an accurate test to

run

> on spinal fluid. At this point I doubt my health insurance will

pick

> up the tab on my ideas of further testing. Tony has these lovely

> ideas about me getting some of my spinal fluid and a microscope - I

> am more likely to have a miracle take place right here in Sin City.

>

> What was your reaction to Diamox?

>

> I seem to be a bit better taking Valtrex and Zithromax, but who

> knows. The penicillin and diflucan didn't seem to be doing anything

> after 3 months - so much for Schardt and borrelia or just plain old

> fungal infections.

>

> I am sorry, but what have you been diagnosed with in terms of

> infection? What antibiotics have you taken? My son I mentioned

> earlier had severe, unbearable headache and then vertigo and nausea

> so bad he had to quit working and driving. The neuro he saw, since

> retired, gave him the 4 months of some sort of cefdiner??? - don't

> know the name as he can't recall - then he did Chinese herbs, still

> does, and has been FINE ever since. Of course, he is young.

>

> a

>

> >

> > Dear a

> > I guess I was at the end of my tether when I wrote that. I had

just

> got the results of the CT scan which showed nothing . There was no

> contrast agent used so I would expect that the chance of anything

> showing would be minimal.

> > Having slept on it, I realise that the duc failed to give enough

> background to the radiologist to make an informed decision re

> technique. I was too brain dead at the time to do anything about it.

> > 23 years of unremitting headache

> > postural edema

> > postural tinnitus

> > high risk factors for cerebrospinal pressure irregularities

> > weird response to Diamox

> > increasing parasthesias

> > peripheral neuritis

> > gait disturbance and falls

> > Nothing wrong? Really?

> > Regards

> > R

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Tony, I have no clue what you are talking about. What I did was that

I had spinal fluid sent to IgneX for a PCR. It was negative. I

learned later that spinal fluid PCRs are not the best choice of test.

IgeneX REPORTED THE NEGATIVE.

The doctor had many other tests run on the spinal fluid. They were

all negative. Maybe I should have brought one vial home and drank it,

then if I got sick I could figure it was contaminated. But maybe CSF

works like urine and kills germs, so it would have been good for me.

Have a nice weekend, buddy.

a

>

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tony has these lovely

> > ideas about me getting some of my spinal fluid and a microscope -

I

> > am more likely to have a miracle take place right here in Sin

> City.<<<<<<<<<<

>

> a I assume your a grown up? Firstly you gave spinal fluid and

> emphasised you want it sent to IGENEX for borrellia testing..My lab

> experience warns people to make sure there samples are REPORTED ON,

> NOT AN ASSUMPTION TO BE MADE THAT A CONTAMINATION WAS EVIDENT and

> not REPORTED on..So you carry on that you can't do one thing, yet

you

> did something every doctor in the hospital would consider a stupid

> idea and never attempt.I think your going to have a long and lonely

> journey in this disease process with your silly belief systems in

> place unless you start looking at the amount of INFECTION/ROT

> OCCURING IN YOUR HEAD.I think DAvid HAll come on here bragging and

> not appreciating or sharing that he had taken care of a lot of huge

> infection above his teeth when I grilled him last..

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > ,

> > I can relate. I cannot imagine the mess I have been in for one

year

> > going on for 23 years. And, yes, I understand that it is not easy

> to

> > get the ducs to consider all the issues. My MRI was done with no

> dye

> > either. I made the mistake of ordering a PCR for borrelia on the

> > spinal fluid only to learn later that was not an accurate test to

> run

> > on spinal fluid. At this point I doubt my health insurance will

> pick

> > up the tab on my ideas of further testing. Tony has these lovely

> > ideas about me getting some of my spinal fluid and a microscope -

I

> > am more likely to have a miracle take place right here in Sin

City.

> >

> > What was your reaction to Diamox?

> >

> > I seem to be a bit better taking Valtrex and Zithromax, but who

> > knows. The penicillin and diflucan didn't seem to be doing

anything

> > after 3 months - so much for Schardt and borrelia or just plain

old

> > fungal infections.

> >

> > I am sorry, but what have you been diagnosed with in terms of

> > infection? What antibiotics have you taken? My son I mentioned

> > earlier had severe, unbearable headache and then vertigo and

nausea

> > so bad he had to quit working and driving. The neuro he saw,

since

> > retired, gave him the 4 months of some sort of cefdiner??? -

don't

> > know the name as he can't recall - then he did Chinese herbs,

still

> > does, and has been FINE ever since. Of course, he is young.

> >

> > a

> >

> > >

> > > Dear a

> > > I guess I was at the end of my tether when I wrote that. I had

> just

> > got the results of the CT scan which showed nothing . There was

no

> > contrast agent used so I would expect that the chance of anything

> > showing would be minimal.

> > > Having slept on it, I realise that the duc failed to give

enough

> > background to the radiologist to make an informed decision re

> > technique. I was too brain dead at the time to do anything about

it.

> > > 23 years of unremitting headache

> > > postural edema

> > > postural tinnitus

> > > high risk factors for cerebrospinal pressure irregularities

> > > weird response to Diamox

> > > increasing parasthesias

> > > peripheral neuritis

> > > gait disturbance and falls

> > > Nothing wrong? Really?

> > > Regards

> > > R

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Kate,

If at some point you and/or your son get blood levels of B vitamins

tested WHILE TAKING YASKO'S SUGGESTED B VITAMINS I would be MOST

interested to see the results.

I am extremely skeptical that my off the chart high B levels would be

okay if I just switched my vitamins to her vitamins. I have stopped

all vitamins at this present time. I am taking ImmunoPro which seems

to me to be a natural food product in concentrated form.

I look forward to further input on this whole Yasko thing.

Thanks,

a

>

> , I forgot to mention that my son's genetic test came back

> with a MTHFr mutation that supposedly means he can't process

regular

> folic acid well. It is suggested that he supplement with 5-

> methyltetrahydrofolate, which is an intermediate in the folate

cycle.

> I don't know if his blood folate levels measure high because of

this

> though. Neither of us have had folate levels tested. If it can't

be

> converted though, maybe it does stick around in the blood. Did

your

> test give a chemical formula or just say " folate " ?

>

> Here's part of Yasko's explanation of the folate cycle:

> " This cycle involves the conversion of tetrahydrofolate (THF) into

> 5,10-methylenetetrahydrafolate which in turn gets converted to 5-

> methyltetrahydrofolate (MTHF). MTHF is then converted back into

THF.

> Dietary folate, or folic acid that you get from your foods, is

> converted into a product called dihydrafolate (DHF) in the

presence

> of Vitamin B3. DHF is then converted to THF, also with the aid of

B3.

> THF is converted to 5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate with help from

> Vitamin B6, P5P and Serine. Essentially THF gains a " methylene "

group

> (different from methyl group) from serine to become 5,10-

> methylenetetrahydrofolate. Alternatively folinic acid (5-

> formyltetrahydrofolate, different from folic acid) is also

converted

> to 5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate in a reaction occurring

> simultaneously. 5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate is then converted to

5-

> methyltetrahydrofolate (MTHF) aka " Folapro " by the enzyme

> methylenetetrahydrafolatereductase (MTHFr) with the aid of NADH,

B2

> and ATP. "

>

> And if the above isn't working right, it also leads to

inefficiency

> in the methylation cycle because the two cycles intersect.

>

> - Kate

>

> > I've just got my last blood workups back, everything within the

> > normal range except for Cholesterol and triglycerides which have

> > been high all my life and unusually, B12 (about 4 times the

> > reference minimum) and folate (off the scale around 10 times the

> > reference minimum).

> >

> > Windsor

>