Re: NTs, Trust, and Trauma...

[Guest guest]

Antryg Windrose dreamed lazily into the stars:

>I used to smoke tobacco but I never inhaled it and I would only smoke <5

>really thin rolled cigarettes a day.

Forgive me for being dense...but how do you smoke anything without inhaling it?

>...I was in psychiatric hospitals for so long where

>it is impossible to escape the stench of smoking...

They allow smoking in your hospitals? That's ridiculous...what a horrid

place to be.

>A few years ago I smoked marijuana as well and that badly effected my

>asthma. If you are such a severe asthmatic that the sedation of

>risperidone nearly killed you then I would say stay the hell away from

>cannabis or any other inhaled smoke.

Yep, I'm a nebulizer-puffing asthmatic...symptoms given me a break for a

while, but now that my area is reaching Fall, it's starting to come

back. :^P Risperdal not only triggered my asthma, but it sedated me to

the point that I didn't wake up when my breathing became bad. I woke up

many, many hours later barely able to breathe enough to even pant, and was

just able to flop one arm over to grab the mouthpiece by my bed & turn on

the machine. If I didn't keep a nebulizer by my bed, IMHO I would have died.

Oddly enough, not all smoke seems to set off my asthma -- mostly

just tobacco smoke. Wood smoke doesn't bother me too much, though it gives

me a sinus headache... I was thinking about trying cannabis, but given

what you said, it doesn't sound like a good idea. Any idea on whether

'hookah " smoking would be safe, or if I'd be risking disaster with that too?

mustang@... ~~ http://www.sonic.net/mustang/moggy

Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness.

-- Terry Pratchett: 'Men At Arms'

[Guest guest]

Re: NTs, Trust, and Trauma...

> I used to smoke tobacco but I never inhaled it and I would only smoke <5

> really thin rolled cigarettes a day. It screwed with my respiratory

> health badly but since I was in psychiatric hospitals for so long where

> it is impossible to escape the stench of smoking even if you are not

> doing it yourself and then when I got out of those places the air was

> much cleaner even with me " smoking " myself I did not notice how badly it

> had effected me until I quit earlier this year.

I might as well admit a weakness I endured on and off for 7 years. Addiction

to nicotine and yes I did inhale and reached 20 a day before. I had always

resisted all attempts by various " comrades " with whom I socialised to debate

hot political issues and obscure interpretations of Trotsky's musings to

coerce me into adopting the habit, then suddenly I noticed an urge. Was

because my mother smoked more than pack a day while she was expecting me.

Smoking is a very social habit. If you do it at the right time, in the right

place, with the right people and preferably in the right way, you gain

credibility, but in the States that must be increasingly hard. Smoking also

helped me think more clearly and to hell with the 10 or more years it would

knock off my life expectancy. I hated the stench in the house, so it was a

great excuse for a walk. But after a few bad coughs and a jobless spell in a

country with no unemployment benefit I gave up 11 years ago. It's not

something I'd recommend, but I just don't like all this high-minded

criminalisation of folk who have succumbed to a mass-marketed habit.

Neil

> A few years ago I smoked marijuana as well and that badly effected my

> asthma. If you are such a severe asthmatic that the sedation of

> risperidone nearly killed you then I would say stay the hell away from

> cannabis or any other inhaled smoke.

>

> CZ

>

>

>

> DeGraf wrote:

> > Handy dreamed lazily into the stars:

> >

> >>As I'm not currently on any prescribed meds, I

> >>occasionally self-medicate with cannabis to acheive

> >>the calming effect you speak of...it relaxes me, and

> >>eliminates the problem of frustration building to

> >>rage, as well.

> >

> >

> > I've considered going the same route, except I had no idea where I would

> > actually get any. Yes, despite living in California... :^/ I was

fairly

> > desperate for something to drop my anxiety levels last year, otherwise I

> > wouldn't have even considered requesting another medication after

Risperdal

> > set off a near-fatal asthma attack on the starter dose. I dropped my

> > psychopharmacologist as he wouldn't let me try anything other than

> > antipsychotics (Zyprexa, then Risperdal), was assigned to a nicer guy

and

> > told him upfront that I refuse to take anything with a sedative effect.

> >

> >

> >> Also helps me sleep more

> >>regularly...something I have a rather hard time

> >>with...my mind simply doesn't shut itself off, and my

> >>circadian rhythms have been extremely irregular for as

> >>long as I can remember.

> >

> >

> > I naturally doze in 2-hour increments with my mind still going at full

> > speed for days or weeks on end, then crash for a few days, only to begin

> > the cycle again. I fix it with medication once in a while as after a

few

> > weeks I start to feel quite a bit of neuro pain, but for the most part I

> > prefer to just let my body do what it feels like.

> >

> >

> >> Of course, this sort of self-medication is

> >>generally not medically advised, but in my opinion

> >>cannabis seems to have some of the same beneficial

> >>effects as some of the prescription meds without their

> >>side effects...and in the case of some of them, the

> >>risk seems to outweigh the potential benefit.

> >

> >

> > Yes, like the Risperdal that nearly killed me, the Zyprexa that did

little

> > other than keep me from standing up for myself... I won't touch

anything

> > like that again. I only accept Neurontin once in a while because it

> > doesn't do anything other than allow me to relax, much in the way I've

> > heard alcohol or cannabis might.

> >

> > I'm reminded by this conversation that I did have a few stims during the

20

> > years I was suppressing my natural ones... Instead of harmlessly

rocking

> > or pacing, I developed a tendency to remove all of the skin around my

> > fingernails/toenails, pull out hair, and strike myself. Yeah, great

> > improvement -- look totally normal around the NTs, then reduce my

cuticles

> > to a bloody mess as soon as I was alone.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Neil Gardner wrote:

> It's not

> something I'd recommend, but I just don't like all this high-minded

> criminalisation of folk who have succumbed to a mass-marketed habit.

It does not matter if it is mass-marketed. People are still responsible for

their own

actions, and if those actions cause others to be repulsed, to have an asthma

attack, or to

get any of the cancer that some say comes from second-hand smoke, then their

actions are

harmful, and they should be treated as such-- the fact that the cigarettes they

smoke are

mass-marketed is no excuse. They are mass-marketed to a lot of people, and

according to

the recent statistics, only one in four adults in the US now smokes regularly.

Mass

marketing is not forcing anyone to smoke, eat Mc's hamburgers, or anything

else.

Even the NTs, suggestible to advertising as they can be, reject cigarettes more

often than

succumb to the advertising.

[Guest guest]

DeGraf wrote:

> Antryg Windrose dreamed lazily into the stars:

>

>>I used to smoke tobacco but I never inhaled it and I would only smoke <5

>>really thin rolled cigarettes a day.

>

>

> Forgive me for being dense...but how do you smoke anything without inhaling

it?

Suck it into your mouth and then exhale without getting the smoke into

your lungs as much as most smokers do. A lot of people here call it

" bumsucking " and some ridicule it for not being real smoking.

>>...I was in psychiatric hospitals for so long where

>>it is impossible to escape the stench of smoking...

>

>

> They allow smoking in your hospitals? That's ridiculous...what a horrid

> place to be.

Not inside. But out in the courtyards in mental units yes. Most of the

clientelle of psychiatric hospitals smoke. Outside in the smoking areas

it smells and many of the patients smell when they are inside. Private

hospitals tend to smell and look better but I found them to have a much

more unhealthy effect on people (they are less interested in getting

people well and discharging them than in getting them dependant on all

those in-depth psychotherapy groups and long term inpatient stays).

>>A few years ago I smoked marijuana as well and that badly effected my

>>asthma. If you are such a severe asthmatic that the sedation of

>>risperidone nearly killed you then I would say stay the hell away from

>>cannabis or any other inhaled smoke.

>

>

> Yep, I'm a nebulizer-puffing asthmatic...symptoms given me a break for a

> while, but now that my area is reaching Fall, it's starting to come

> back. :^P Risperdal not only triggered my asthma, but it sedated me to

> the point that I didn't wake up when my breathing became bad. I woke up

> many, many hours later barely able to breathe enough to even pant, and was

> just able to flop one arm over to grab the mouthpiece by my bed & turn on

> the machine. If I didn't keep a nebulizer by my bed, IMHO I would have died.

I remember the first time I read you describe this. I have had many such

scares with my asthma and in 2000 I had to use subcutaneous adrenaline

14 times to start me breathing again. That year was terrible due to a

stinking revolting roommate who had cats and smoked 100-150 grams of

tobacco every 2 weeks (mostly indoors during 2000). After I banished the

smoking to outside and made her get rid of her cats (her other option

was to go and take them with her but she as I predicted did not do

that... " I can't find anywhere to rent that lets me have cats waa waa " )

my asthma improved markedly although it is still far less than good.

> Oddly enough, not all smoke seems to set off my asthma -- mostly

> just tobacco smoke. Wood smoke doesn't bother me too much, though it gives

> me a sinus headache... I was thinking about trying cannabis, but given

> what you said, it doesn't sound like a good idea. Any idea on whether

> 'hookah " smoking would be safe, or if I'd be risking disaster with that too?

You would be risking disaster and smoking damages the lungs so you would

also be increasing your chances of getting emphysema (which asthmatics

already have increased chances of getting to start with) and worsening

your baseline in the long term. If you were to sit there puffing on wood

smoke for stress relief it would affect your asthma and damage your lungs.

CZ

[Guest guest]

The only times I think smoking should be criminalised are when people

who do not want to smoke are unable to avoid it. I really object to

having to use damaging medications to control my asthma so that I can

walk down a hallway or outdoor walkway at university or wait for the

bus. I do not care who smokes or how much they do it as long as they do

not inflict it on other people. I hate seeing young mothers sitting at

the bus stop with a baby under one arm and a cigarette in the other hand

as well.

CZ

Neil Gardner wrote:

> Re: NTs, Trust, and Trauma...

>

>

>

>>I used to smoke tobacco but I never inhaled it and I would only smoke <5

>>really thin rolled cigarettes a day. It screwed with my respiratory

>>health badly but since I was in psychiatric hospitals for so long where

>>it is impossible to escape the stench of smoking even if you are not

>>doing it yourself and then when I got out of those places the air was

>>much cleaner even with me " smoking " myself I did not notice how badly it

>>had effected me until I quit earlier this year.

>

>

> I might as well admit a weakness I endured on and off for 7 years. Addiction

> to nicotine and yes I did inhale and reached 20 a day before. I had always

> resisted all attempts by various " comrades " with whom I socialised to debate

> hot political issues and obscure interpretations of Trotsky's musings to

> coerce me into adopting the habit, then suddenly I noticed an urge. Was

> because my mother smoked more than pack a day while she was expecting me.

> Smoking is a very social habit. If you do it at the right time, in the right

> place, with the right people and preferably in the right way, you gain

> credibility, but in the States that must be increasingly hard. Smoking also

> helped me think more clearly and to hell with the 10 or more years it would

> knock off my life expectancy. I hated the stench in the house, so it was a

> great excuse for a walk. But after a few bad coughs and a jobless spell in a

> country with no unemployment benefit I gave up 11 years ago. It's not

> something I'd recommend, but I just don't like all this high-minded

> criminalisation of folk who have succumbed to a mass-marketed habit.

>

> Neil

>

>

>>A few years ago I smoked marijuana as well and that badly effected my

>>asthma. If you are such a severe asthmatic that the sedation of

>>risperidone nearly killed you then I would say stay the hell away from

>>cannabis or any other inhaled smoke.

>>

>>CZ

>>

>>

>>

>> DeGraf wrote:

>>

>>> Handy dreamed lazily into the stars:

>>>

>>>

>>>>As I'm not currently on any prescribed meds, I

>>>>occasionally self-medicate with cannabis to acheive

>>>>the calming effect you speak of...it relaxes me, and

>>>>eliminates the problem of frustration building to

>>>>rage, as well.

>>>

>>>

>>>I've considered going the same route, except I had no idea where I would

>>>actually get any. Yes, despite living in California... :^/ I was

>>

> fairly

>

>>>desperate for something to drop my anxiety levels last year, otherwise I

>>>wouldn't have even considered requesting another medication after

>>

> Risperdal

>

>>>set off a near-fatal asthma attack on the starter dose. I dropped my

>>>psychopharmacologist as he wouldn't let me try anything other than

>>>antipsychotics (Zyprexa, then Risperdal), was assigned to a nicer guy

>>

> and

>

>>>told him upfront that I refuse to take anything with a sedative effect.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>>Also helps me sleep more

>>>>regularly...something I have a rather hard time

>>>>with...my mind simply doesn't shut itself off, and my

>>>>circadian rhythms have been extremely irregular for as

>>>>long as I can remember.

>>>

>>>

>>>I naturally doze in 2-hour increments with my mind still going at full

>>>speed for days or weeks on end, then crash for a few days, only to begin

>>>the cycle again. I fix it with medication once in a while as after a

>>

> few

>

>>>weeks I start to feel quite a bit of neuro pain, but for the most part I

>>>prefer to just let my body do what it feels like.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>> Of course, this sort of self-medication is

>>>>generally not medically advised, but in my opinion

>>>>cannabis seems to have some of the same beneficial

>>>>effects as some of the prescription meds without their

>>>>side effects...and in the case of some of them, the

>>>>risk seems to outweigh the potential benefit.

>>>

>>>

>>>Yes, like the Risperdal that nearly killed me, the Zyprexa that did

>>

> little

>

>>>other than keep me from standing up for myself... I won't touch

>>

> anything

>

>>>like that again. I only accept Neurontin once in a while because it

>>>doesn't do anything other than allow me to relax, much in the way I've

>>>heard alcohol or cannabis might.

>>>

>>>I'm reminded by this conversation that I did have a few stims during the

>>

> 20

>

>>>years I was suppressing my natural ones... Instead of harmlessly

>>

> rocking

>

>>>or pacing, I developed a tendency to remove all of the skin around my

>>>fingernails/toenails, pull out hair, and strike myself. Yeah, great

>>>improvement -- look totally normal around the NTs, then reduce my

>>

> cuticles

>

>>>to a bloody mess as soon as I was alone.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

[Guest guest]

tigger dreamed lazily into the stars:

> >stop being sheeple..?

>

> " Sheeple " ! I love this word.

>What does this mean?

Sheeple = people that act like sheep by blindly following what everyone

else is doing. (Sheep + people = sheep-le)

mustang@... ~~ http://www.sonic.net/mustang/moggy

Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness.

-- Terry Pratchett: 'Men At Arms'

[Guest guest]

What does this mean?

>stop being sheeple..?

" Sheeple " ! I love this word.

[Guest guest]

tigger dreamed lazily into the stars:

>I am confused by this discussion. I do not understand the reference to

> " NT-wannabe autistics " , nor " upper-spectrum NTs " . Can someone clarify? I

>am totally clueless (not typical for me on an autism list).

NT-wannabe autistics are aspies that don't believe in ever showing that

they are not totally " normal " even though they are not. Usually they are

harshly against anyone else showing it either.

Upper-spectrum NTs was a bit of a play on words... NTs tend to regard some

autistics as " upper " solely because they imitate being normal so well. I

thus used the idea of " upper-spectrum NT " to mean " a normal person that

demonstrates some of the beneficial autistic traits. "

mustang@... ~~ http://www.sonic.net/mustang/moggy

Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness.

-- Terry Pratchett: 'Men At Arms'

[Guest guest]

I am confused by this discussion. I do not understand the reference to

" NT-wannabe autistics " , nor " upper-spectrum NTs " . Can someone clarify? I am

totally clueless (not typical for me on an autism list).

thanks.

> Which leaves the perpetual question: we know this, but how do we convince

> the NTs or even the NT-wannabe autistics? That is, how can we convince the

> first group not to attack us and the second group to stop being

> sheeple..? Or should we merely set an example for others and hope our

> ranks grow?

>>Of course, I am generalizing, and whenever you generalize, there are always

going to be

>>exceptions. I know a number of NTs that think that upper-spectrum NTs are

fine... my

>>mother is my perennial example of this

[Guest guest]

tigger wrote:

> I am confused by this discussion. I do not understand the reference to

" NT-wannabe

> autistics " , nor " upper-spectrum NTs " . Can someone clarify? I am totally

clueless (not

> typical for me on an autism list).

The latter was an error on my part. I meant to write upper-spectrum ASDs, not

NTs.

liked my error and decided to apply that to someone (as she described).

>> Which leaves the perpetual question: we know this, but how do we convince

the NTs or

>> even the NT-wannabe autistics? That is, how can we convince the first group

not to

>> attack us and the second group to stop being sheeple..? Or should we merely

set an

>> example for others and hope our ranks grow?

>

>

>>> Of course, I am generalizing, and whenever you generalize, there are always

going

>>> to be exceptions. I know a number of NTs that think that upper-spectrum

NTs are

>>> fine... my mother is my perennial example of this

[Guest guest]

Thanks , for clarifying. Makes perfect sense now!

Re: NTs, Trust, and Trauma...

tigger wrote:

> I am confused by this discussion. I do not understand the reference to

" NT-wannabe

> autistics " , nor " upper-spectrum NTs " . Can someone clarify? I am totally

clueless (not

> typical for me on an autism list).

The latter was an error on my part. I meant to write upper-spectrum ASDs, not

NTs.

liked my error and decided to apply that to someone (as she described).

>> Which leaves the perpetual question: we know this, but how do we convince

the NTs or

>> even the NT-wannabe autistics? That is, how can we convince the first

group not to

>> attack us and the second group to stop being sheeple..? Or should we

merely set an

>> example for others and hope our ranks grow?

>

>

>>> Of course, I am generalizing, and whenever you generalize, there are

always going

>>> to be exceptions. I know a number of NTs that think that upper-spectrum

NTs are

>>> fine... my mother is my perennial example of this

[Guest guest]

Love it! I always just use 'Borg', but sheeple has a nice twist.

Re: NTs, Trust, and Trauma...

tigger dreamed lazily into the stars:

> >stop being sheeple..?

>

> " Sheeple " ! I love this word.

>What does this mean?

Sheeple = people that act like sheep by blindly following what everyone

else is doing. (Sheep + people = sheep-le)

mustang@... ~~ http://www.sonic.net/mustang/moggy

Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness.

-- Terry Pratchett: 'Men At Arms'