Re: Tony does not BELIEVE in ticks!!!

[Guest guest]

If Tony's such an idiot, why is he healthier now than before he got sick? As usual, people focus on the wrong thing. Ticks or no ticks is not the point. The point we need to focus on is chronic infections in general. How to identify them correctly and then how to treat them properly. Plus, the other point is that we need to stop being satisfied with the first diagnosis we get from a lab that admittedly has an incredibly high rate of positive tests (like Igenex) and consider that we may have other pathogens that are flying under the radar that are keeping us sick. It's like Shoemaker keeps telling us...we can't overcome mold sensitivities if we don't clear up our staph colonizations first. How many other problems will clear up if we address those staph colonizations? Even people like a, who's actually been dx'd with staph and has so many symptoms of a head infection, still wants to ignore that something so ordinary and common can be keeping her sick. But do people ask themselves why Staph is so ordinary and common and even deadly? Because it's incredibly hard to kill! That's what we need to be focusing on. How to actually kill the organisms that are so hard to kill, whether it's staph or lyme or whatever. Shoemaker's on the right track. His only problem is he hasn't gotten aggressive enough to truly deal with the staph. Once you get rid of the staph, the body is able to take care of many of our other problems. I've seen this happen time and again. MCS disappears. Allergies disappear. Inflammation disappears. Fatigue disappears. So why not focus for a change on getting rid of the nastiest, most intractable bugs, and see what happens?

Some people manage this by treating lyme so agressively that it kills the staph in the process as well. That's great. But also lucky since most people don't treat lyme that agressively. Clearly, if you don't treat agressively, or correctly identify your organisms to begin with to know which drugs to use, you are making the battle even more impossible to win. penny Nelly Pointis <janel@...> wrote: > yet in my 50 years on the planet I haven't >heard anyone or seen anyone in my city remove, discuss, or have >anything to do with ticks. Tony, If you had been able to get your elbow unstuck from the bar of that Melbourne pub of yours you might have!!! You're forever trying to straighten up people who gobble up whatever garbage is dished up to them and yet you're the biggest idiot of them all!!!!!!!! I lived in Sydney for about 20 years and I HAVE

encountered ticks in Australia MANY MANY TIMES and so have MOST of MY friends. In fact I encountered ticks every time I set foot outside Bondi Beach (the sandy part that is!), I certainly got some walking around in parks in Northen Sydney. Nelly

[Guest guest]

Nelly, it just occurred to me why your post bugged me so much. At first I thought of a tattle tail on the playground, but then I realized that it's just like the media that finds a juicy sound bite to turn into a headline, ignoring the real point for the sake of sensationalism. penny Nelly Pointis <janel@...> wrote: > yet in my 50 years on the planet I haven't

>heard anyone or seen anyone in my city remove, discuss, or have >anything to do with ticks. Tony, If you had been able to get your elbow unstuck from the bar of that Melbourne pub of yours you might have!!! You're forever trying to straighten up people who gobble up whatever garbage is dished up to them and yet you're the biggest idiot of them all!!!!!!!! I lived in Sydney for about 20 years and I HAVE encountered ticks in Australia MANY MANY TIMES and so have MOST of MY friends. In fact I encountered ticks every time I set

foot outside Bondi Beach (the sandy part that is!), I certainly got some walking around in parks in Northen Sydney. Nelly

[Guest guest]

Nelly

Why doesn't someone start a questionaire when they go to seminars to

work out how relevant the tick bourne aspect of these diseases is..

If you come up with an absolute fail safe approach to a questionaire

you may be able to answer the viral/tickbourne and some other aspects

of these ilnesses..

I would consider it absolutely rediculous to think someone could

develop fibromyalgia after a whiplash injury and thinking I ran into

the back of this car and got bitten by a tick, or even a virus got

me.Or I fell ill after sinus surgery because I got bitten by the

fleas the previous person left on the sofa in the waiting room.

The beauty of getting to talk to people over the phone when your

passionate about understandinmg what went wrong- you find that they

had a foot of intestine removed, sinus surgery,

endometreosis/historectomy and then due to internet conspiracy

theories claim black and blue it's sexually transmitted lyme or a

tick got them in someones backyard-completely oblivious to the

underlying, unanswered health challenges they faced in there not too

distant past.

Penny I know your sick of PAula this and PAula that but it's more a

topic that's being brought up because it's relevant to evryone.. A

huge dialogue of what kicked things off in many is possably one of

the best answers we can produce for all our members to put alot of

this into perspective..

I personally think PAula being a teacher was exposed to a lot of kids

and there antibiotic usage combined with dust filled buildings that

are vectors for sinus carrying bacteria. an egs. of this is that I

can enter someones room and the dust in the environemnt would land me

there sinus bacteria..imagine multiplying that by 100 or a 1000 and

you eventually land the king of the hill species or multiples wanting

to dominate there new domain.

tony

>

> > yet in my 50 years on the planet I haven't

> >heard anyone or seen anyone in my city remove, discuss, or have

> >anything to do with ticks.

>

> Tony,

>

> If you had been able to get your elbow unstuck from the bar of that

Melbourne pub of yours you might have!!!

>

> You're forever trying to straighten up people who gobble up

whatever garbage is dished up to them and yet you're the biggest

idiot of them all!!!!!!!!

>

> I lived in Sydney for about 20 years and I HAVE encountered ticks

in Australia MANY MANY TIMES and so have MOST of MY friends. In fact

I encountered ticks every time I set foot outside Bondi Beach (the

sandy part that is!), I certainly got some walking around in parks in

Northen Sydney.

>

> Nelly

>

[Guest guest]

>>>>>>>>I lived in Sydney for about 20 years and I HAVE encountered

ticks in Australia MANY MANY TIMES and so have MOST of MY friends. In

fact I encountered ticks every time I set foot outside Bondi Beach

(the sandy part that is!), I certainly got some walking around in

parks in Northen Sydney.<<<<<<<<<<<

Nelly why isn't a scientific link being established between people

working in this environment and the prelevance of this disease

process. It's really sucks to believe you've an ilness that people

with a 1000 times more exposure to, don't suffer from ...You can't

win in court, nor congress, nor scientific circles without beating

the COMMONSENSE ASPECT OF YOUR ILLNESS CLAIMS and I'm afraid Igenex

has a lot to answer for to put these thoughts in your heads IMO.

tony

> > yet in my 50 years on the planet I haven't

> >heard anyone or seen anyone in my city remove, discuss, or have

> >anything to do with ticks.

>

> Tony,

>

> If you had been able to get your elbow unstuck from the bar of

that Melbourne pub of yours you might have!!!

>

> You're forever trying to straighten up people who gobble up

whatever garbage is dished up to them and yet you're the biggest

idiot of them all!!!!!!!!

>

> I lived in Sydney for about 20 years and I HAVE encountered ticks

in Australia MANY MANY TIMES and so have MOST of MY friends. In fact

I encountered ticks every time I set foot outside Bondi Beach (the

sandy part that is!), I certainly got some walking around in parks in

Northen Sydney.

>

> Nelly

>

[Guest guest]

Penny,

>If Tony's such an idiot, why is he healthier now than before he got sick?

I know loads of healthy idiots, don't you? And some of them were sick and aren't sick any longer, does that make them smart?

That being said, you know full well I totally think SERIOUS bacterial infections are at the root of all these fatiguing, on-going illnesses. And nobody better than me has tried all the big guns serious abx and combos thereof and for a long time. AND I never poo-pooed the notion of various infection soups being responsable for our demise, including the ones Tony knows. But I just keep getting sick and tired of Tony NOT being aware of the serious and incredibly persisting nature of some infections he just has not looked into, and I am sick and tired of the fact that he keeps on pouring shit on them.

I have recently taken an antiparasitic drug and I sprung 3 beautiful crops of several EM rashes. I had not had a skin manifestation since my very first EM rash in 1982. I strongly suspect that borrelia were released from the dying parasites. Very impressive, I have the photos if you're interested.

I have wanted to get to the bottom of my infections but it is not the easy slap dash job that Tony keeps claiming it is.

Nelly

Re: [infections] Tony does not BELIEVE in ticks!!!

If Tony's such an idiot, why is he healthier now than before he got sick?

As usual, people focus on the wrong thing. Ticks or no ticks is not the point. The point we need to focus on is chronic infections in general. How to identify them correctly and then how to treat them properly.

Plus, the other point is that we need to stop being satisfied with the first diagnosis we get from a lab that admittedly has an incredibly high rate of positive tests (like Igenex) and consider that we may have other pathogens that are flying under the radar that are keeping us sick.

It's like Shoemaker keeps telling us...we can't overcome mold sensitivities if we don't clear up our staph colonizations first. How many other problems will clear up if we address those staph colonizations?

Even people like a, who's actually been dx'd with staph and has so many symptoms of a head infection, still wants to ignore that something so ordinary and common can be keeping her sick. But do people ask themselves why Staph is so ordinary and common and even deadly? Because it's incredibly hard to kill!

That's what we need to be focusing on. How to actually kill the organisms that are so hard to kill, whether it's staph or lyme or whatever. Shoemaker's on the right track. His only problem is he hasn't gotten aggressive enough to truly deal with the staph.

Once you get rid of the staph, the body is able to take care of many of our other problems. I've seen this happen time and again. MCS disappears. Allergies disappear. Inflammation disappears. Fatigue disappears. So why not focus for a change on getting rid of the nastiest, most intractable bugs, and see what happens? Some people manage this by treating lyme so agressively that it kills the staph in the process as well. That's great. But also lucky since most people don't treat lyme that agressively. Clearly, if you don't treat agressively, or correctly identify your organisms to begin with to know which drugs to use, you are making the battle even more impossible to win.

penny

Nelly Pointis <janel@...> wrote:

> yet in my 50 years on the planet I haven't >heard anyone or seen anyone in my city remove, discuss, or have >anything to do with ticks.

Tony,

If you had been able to get your elbow unstuck from the bar of that Melbourne pub of yours you might have!!!

You're forever trying to straighten up people who gobble up whatever garbage is dished up to them and yet you're the biggest idiot of them all!!!!!!!!

I lived in Sydney for about 20 years and I HAVE encountered ticks in Australia MANY MANY TIMES and so have MOST of MY friends. In fact I encountered ticks every time I set foot outside Bondi Beach (the sandy part that is!), I certainly got some walking around in parks in Northen Sydney.

Nelly

[Guest guest]

I think Tony's the LAST person to say it's an easy job. I think what he's saying is that people are overlooking a big part of the problem because they are fixated on a narrow aspect of the problem. It's like looking at space with a microscope instead of a telescope. I also get "SICK AND TIRED" of that, not to mention people constantly misinterpreting what Tony's saying in the first place. I could care less whether Tony "believes in ticks" or not. It's not important. a exemplifies the entire problem with her complete cluelessness about the organisisms other than borrelia that could easily be causing her symptoms, but instead she fixates on causes that are only remotely possible. pennyNelly Pointis <janel@...> wrote: Penny, >If Tony's such an idiot, why is he healthier now than before he got sick? I know loads of healthy idiots, don't you? And some of them were sick and aren't sick any longer, does that make them smart? That being said, you know full well I totally think SERIOUS bacterial infections are at the root of all these fatiguing, on-going illnesses. And nobody better than me has tried all the big guns serious abx and combos thereof and for a long time. AND I never poo-pooed the notion of various infection soups being responsable for our demise, including the ones Tony knows. But I just keep getting sick and tired of Tony NOT being aware of the serious and incredibly persisting nature of some infections he just has not looked into, and I am sick and tired of the fact that he keeps on pouring shit on them. I have recently taken an antiparasitic drug and I sprung 3 beautiful crops of several EM rashes. I had not had a skin manifestation since my very first EM rash in 1982. I strongly suspect that borrelia were released from the dying parasites. Very impressive, I have

the photos if you're interested. I have wanted to get to the bottom of my infections but it is not the easy slap dash job that Tony keeps claiming it is. Nelly Re: [infections] Tony does not BELIEVE in ticks!!! If Tony's such an idiot, why is he healthier now than before he got sick? As usual, people focus on the wrong thing. Ticks or no ticks is not the point. The point we need to focus on is chronic infections in general. How to identify them correctly and then how to treat them properly. Plus, the other point is that we need to stop being satisfied with the first diagnosis we get from a lab that admittedly has an incredibly high rate of positive tests (like Igenex) and consider that we may have other pathogens that

are flying under the radar that are keeping us sick. It's like Shoemaker keeps telling us...we can't overcome mold sensitivities if we don't clear up our staph colonizations first. How many other problems will clear up if we address those staph colonizations? Even people like a, who's actually been dx'd with staph and has so many symptoms of a head infection, still wants to ignore that something so ordinary and common can be keeping her sick. But do people ask themselves why Staph is so ordinary and common and even deadly? Because it's incredibly hard to kill! That's what we need to be focusing on. How to actually kill the organisms that are so hard to kill, whether it's staph or lyme or whatever. Shoemaker's on the right track. His only problem is he hasn't gotten aggressive enough to truly deal with the staph. Once you get rid of the staph, the body is able to take care of many of our other problems. I've seen this happen time and again. MCS disappears. Allergies disappear. Inflammation disappears. Fatigue disappears. So why not focus for a change on getting rid of the nastiest, most intractable bugs, and see what happens? Some people manage this by treating lyme so agressively that it kills the staph in the process as well. That's great. But also lucky since most people don't treat lyme that agressively. Clearly, if you don't treat agressively, or correctly identify your organisms to begin with to know which drugs to use, you are making the battle even more impossible to win. penny Nelly Pointis <janelpiedbauge (DOT) net> wrote: > yet in my 50 years on the planet I haven't >heard anyone or seen anyone in my city remove, discuss, or have >anything to do with ticks. Tony, If you had been able to get your elbow unstuck from the bar of that Melbourne pub of yours you might have!!! You're forever trying to straighten up people who gobble up whatever garbage is dished up to them and yet you're the biggest idiot of them all!!!!!!!! I lived in Sydney for about 20

years and I HAVE encountered ticks in Australia MANY MANY TIMES and so have MOST of MY friends. In fact I encountered ticks every time I set foot outside Bondi Beach (the sandy part that is!), I certainly got some walking around in parks in Northen Sydney. Nelly

[Guest guest]

Nelly,

Thanks for posting this. I also feel that Tony is minimizing what we

are up against. Just one example - MRSA. I have it, my husband has

it, we have both been treated for it. Assuming it is the cause of my

headache I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT WILL EFFECTIVELY TREAT IT AT THIS POINT,

NEITHER DOES SHOEMAKER. And we don't even know how in the world to

figure out if it IS the cause of my headache.

I could write more about borrelia, but I refuse to waste any more of

my time replying to Tony in Australia where rickettsia is rampant.

a Carnes who first got joint pains from flea bites, and then got

a bull's eye rash in South Carolina where Lyme disease " does not

exist " but did not crash until a few years later - probably stressed

by a molding building at that point. a Carnes whose entire family

is positive for borrelia, but that is not the key player, is it?

WHO IS GOING TO PUT THE PIECES TOGETHER??? TONY, RIGHT? OF COURSE,

RIGHT.

>

> Penny,

>

> >If Tony's such an idiot, why is he healthier now than before he

got sick?

>

> I know loads of healthy idiots, don't you? And some of them were

sick and aren't sick any longer, does that make them smart?

>

> That being said, you know full well I totally think SERIOUS

bacterial infections are at the root of all these fatiguing, on-going

illnesses. And nobody better than me has tried all the big guns

serious abx and combos thereof and for a long time. AND I never poo-

pooed the notion of various infection soups being responsable for our

demise, including the ones Tony knows. But I just keep getting sick

and tired of Tony NOT being aware of the serious and incredibly

persisting nature of some infections he just has not looked into, and

I am sick and tired of the fact that he keeps on pouring shit on them.

>

> I have recently taken an antiparasitic drug and I sprung 3

beautiful crops of several EM rashes. I had not had a skin

manifestation since my very first EM rash in 1982. I strongly suspect

that borrelia were released from the dying parasites. Very

impressive, I have the photos if you're interested.

>

> I have wanted to get to the bottom of my infections but it is not

the easy slap dash job that Tony keeps claiming it is.

>

> Nelly

>

>

> Re: [infections] Tony does not BELIEVE in

ticks!!!

>

>

> If Tony's such an idiot, why is he healthier now than before he

got sick?

>

> As usual, people focus on the wrong thing. Ticks or no ticks is

not the point. The point we need to focus on is chronic infections in

general. How to identify them correctly and then how to treat them

properly.

>

> Plus, the other point is that we need to stop being satisfied

with the first diagnosis we get from a lab that admittedly has an

incredibly high rate of positive tests (like Igenex) and consider

that we may have other pathogens that are flying under the radar that

are keeping us sick.

>

> It's like Shoemaker keeps telling us...we can't overcome mold

sensitivities if we don't clear up our staph colonizations first. How

many other problems will clear up if we address those staph

colonizations?

>

> Even people like a, who's actually been dx'd with staph and

has so many symptoms of a head infection, still wants to ignore that

something so ordinary and common can be keeping her sick. But do

people ask themselves why Staph is so ordinary and common and even

deadly? Because it's incredibly hard to kill!

>

> That's what we need to be focusing on. How to actually kill the

organisms that are so hard to kill, whether it's staph or lyme or

whatever. Shoemaker's on the right track. His only problem is he

hasn't gotten aggressive enough to truly deal with the staph.

>

> Once you get rid of the staph, the body is able to take care of

many of our other problems. I've seen this happen time and again. MCS

disappears. Allergies disappear. Inflammation disappears. Fatigue

disappears. So why not focus for a change on getting rid of the

nastiest, most intractable bugs, and see what happens? Some people

manage this by treating lyme so agressively that it kills the staph

in the process as well. That's great. But also lucky since most

people don't treat lyme that agressively. Clearly, if you don't treat

agressively, or correctly identify your organisms to begin with to

know which drugs to use, you are making the battle even more

impossible to win.

>

> penny

>

>

>

>

>

> Nelly Pointis <janel@...> wrote:

> > yet in my 50 years on the planet I haven't

> >heard anyone or seen anyone in my city remove, discuss, or

have

> >anything to do with ticks.

>

> Tony,

>

> If you had been able to get your elbow unstuck from the bar of

that Melbourne pub of yours you might have!!!

>

> You're forever trying to straighten up people who gobble up

whatever garbage is dished up to them and yet you're the biggest

idiot of them all!!!!!!!!

>

> I lived in Sydney for about 20 years and I HAVE encountered

ticks in Australia MANY MANY TIMES and so have MOST of MY friends. In

fact I encountered ticks every time I set foot outside Bondi Beach

(the sandy part that is!), I certainly got some walking around in

parks in Northen Sydney.

>

> Nelly

>

[Guest guest]

Minimizing? God a, that's one of the most unbelievably bizarre things I've heard. Tony was screaming about staph (MRSA isn't even the worst staph) long before Shoemaker showed up. Tony had it, identified it, then he cured it. If you'd pay attention you might have caught that. The issue is to stop ignoring it and get a grip and start figuring out how to fight it! sheesh! penny pjeanneus <pj7@...> wrote: Nelly,Thanks for posting this. I also feel that Tony is minimizing what we are up against. Just one example - MRSA. I have it, my husband has it, we have both been treated for it. Assuming it is the cause of my headache I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT WILL EFFECTIVELY TREAT IT AT THIS POINT, NEITHER DOES SHOEMAKER. And we don't even know how in the world to figure out if it IS the cause of my headache.I could write more about borrelia, but I refuse to waste any more of my time replying to Tony in Australia where rickettsia is rampant.a Carnes who first got joint pains from flea bites, and then got a bull's eye rash in South Carolina where Lyme disease "does not exist" but did not crash until a few years later - probably stressed by a molding building at that point. a Carnes whose entire family is positive for borrelia, but that is not the key player, is

it?WHO IS GOING TO PUT THE PIECES TOGETHER??? TONY, RIGHT? OF COURSE, RIGHT.>> Penny,> > >If Tony's such an idiot, why is he healthier now than before he got sick?> > I know loads of healthy idiots, don't you? And some of them were sick and aren't sick any longer, does that make them smart?> > That being said, you know full well I totally think SERIOUS bacterial infections are at the root of all these fatiguing, on-going illnesses. And nobody better than me has tried all the big guns serious abx and combos thereof and for a long time. AND I never poo-pooed the notion of various infection soups being responsable for our demise, including the ones Tony knows. But I just keep getting sick and tired of Tony NOT being aware of the serious and incredibly persisting nature of some infections he just has not looked into, and I am sick and tired of the fact that he

keeps on pouring shit on them.> > I have recently taken an antiparasitic drug and I sprung 3 beautiful crops of several EM rashes. I had not had a skin manifestation since my very first EM rash in 1982. I strongly suspect that borrelia were released from the dying parasites. Very impressive, I have the photos if you're interested. > > I have wanted to get to the bottom of my infections but it is not the easy slap dash job that Tony keeps claiming it is. > > Nelly> > > Re: [infections] Tony does not BELIEVE in ticks!!!> > > If Tony's such an idiot, why is he healthier now than before he got

sick?> > As usual, people focus on the wrong thing. Ticks or no ticks is not the point. The point we need to focus on is chronic infections in general. How to identify them correctly and then how to treat them properly. > > Plus, the other point is that we need to stop being satisfied with the first diagnosis we get from a lab that admittedly has an incredibly high rate of positive tests (like Igenex) and consider that we may have other pathogens that are flying under the radar that are keeping us sick. > > It's like Shoemaker keeps telling us...we can't overcome mold sensitivities if we don't clear up our staph colonizations first. How many other problems will clear up if we address those staph colonizations?> > Even people like a, who's actually been dx'd with staph and has so many symptoms of a head infection, still wants to ignore that something so ordinary and

common can be keeping her sick. But do people ask themselves why Staph is so ordinary and common and even deadly? Because it's incredibly hard to kill!> > That's what we need to be focusing on. How to actually kill the organisms that are so hard to kill, whether it's staph or lyme or whatever. Shoemaker's on the right track. His only problem is he hasn't gotten aggressive enough to truly deal with the staph. > > Once you get rid of the staph, the body is able to take care of many of our other problems. I've seen this happen time and again. MCS disappears. Allergies disappear. Inflammation disappears. Fatigue disappears. So why not focus for a change on getting rid of the nastiest, most intractable bugs, and see what happens? Some people manage this by treating lyme so agressively that it kills the staph in the process as well. That's great. But also lucky since most people don't treat lyme that

agressively. Clearly, if you don't treat agressively, or correctly identify your organisms to begin with to know which drugs to use, you are making the battle even more impossible to win.> > penny> > > > > > Nelly Pointis <janel@...> wrote:> > yet in my 50 years on the planet I haven't > >heard anyone or seen anyone in my city remove, discuss, or have > >anything to do with ticks.> > Tony,> > If you had been able to get your elbow unstuck from the bar of that Melbourne pub of yours you might have!!!> > You're forever trying to straighten up people who gobble up whatever garbage is dished up to them and yet you're the biggest idiot of them all!!!!!!!!> > I lived in Sydney for about 20 years and I HAVE encountered ticks in Australia MANY MANY TIMES and so have MOST of MY friends. In fact I

encountered ticks every time I set foot outside Bondi Beach (the sandy part that is!), I certainly got some walking around in parks in Northen Sydney.> > Nelly>

[Guest guest]

Why can't someone give me an explanation of what they beleive happens

to accident victims- whiplash then fibromyalgia?

Just think this one thru? Is it because many in society have got

oppurtunistic infections waiting to take a foothold?Is it possable

that when I purchase my culture plates they tell me the students are

no longer allowed them because when then common bacteria form decent

sized colonies they are dangerous.. Whats in that? You guys may have

spirochetes because there's 2 plus billion bacteria in your head,

mouth, throat- but jumping out of your skin for this conspiracy

theory when the people with constant exposure to ticks ain't coming

down ill in there droves- NEEDS A READJUSTMENT OF THINKING.

So as part of the bacterial soup you've got spiro's but NOT

NECESSARILY AND HIGHLY UNLIKELY THEY ARE BORRELIA BUGDAFORI..

Also nelly if you've been following the thread a needs a slap in

the ear because she got some unusual symptom which many others have

and know about, yet for her it's just UNBELIEVABLE to have

manifestations of ME!!!!

> > > yet in my 50 years on the planet I haven't

> > >heard anyone or seen anyone in my city remove, discuss, or

> have

> > >anything to do with ticks.

> >

> > Tony,

> >

> > If you had been able to get your elbow unstuck from the bar of

> that Melbourne pub of yours you might have!!!

> >

> > You're forever trying to straighten up people who gobble up

> whatever garbage is dished up to them and yet you're the biggest

> idiot of them all!!!!!!!!

> >

> > I lived in Sydney for about 20 years and I HAVE encountered

> ticks in Australia MANY MANY TIMES and so have MOST of MY friends.

In

> fact I encountered ticks every time I set foot outside Bondi Beach

> (the sandy part that is!), I certainly got some walking around in

> parks in Northen Sydney.

> >

> > Nelly

> >

>

[Guest guest]

a, do you realize that just because a staph is MRSA, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's not sensitive to other antibiotics? I've got MRSA, but whaddaya know, my staph still responds to penicillin, at least to some degree, not enough to completely eliminate it, but enough to keep it knocked down. My sinuses on the other hand, barely respond to penicillin, and perhaps that's because the pseudomonas, or actinomyces, or a different variety of staph laughs at penicillin. That's why I have to resort to salt and betadine and bleach to control my sinuses & the infections that flare up around my teeth, until I can find the thing that is going to eliminate these organisms once and for all. The point is, you've got an identified MRSA and you don't make the slightest effort whatsoever to learn about it or try to identify what it might be sensitive to. Or to find out if you have

any other staphs or organisms that are contributing to the mush in your head and which drugs they might be sensitive to. You'd rather speculate about possible viruses and conspiracy theories. You say you can't get tested where you are. Well I know dozens of people who could have said the same thing, including myself, but we kept pounding the pavement until we got tested and our organisms identified. If you wanted to, you could as well. That's what drives me nuts. You have all these red flags pointing at your head and you ignore them. This isn't the first time. I tried to warn you about other serious red flags and all it got me was involved in a ridiculous law suit. THEN you saw a flash of red for yourself. I've been hoping against hope you'll finally grasp something here as well. So forgive me if I'm exasperated with you, but that's just the way it is. My patience has worn

out. penny Penny Houle <pennyhoule@...> wrote: Minimizing? God a, that's one of the most unbelievably bizarre things I've heard. Tony was screaming about staph (MRSA isn't even the worst staph) long before Shoemaker showed up. Tony had it, identified it, then he cured it. If you'd pay attention you might have caught that. The issue is to

stop ignoring it and get a grip and start figuring out how to fight it! sheesh! penny pjeanneus <pj7@...> wrote: Nelly,Thanks for posting this. I also feel that Tony is minimizing what we are up against. Just one example - MRSA. I have it, my husband has it, we have both been treated for it. Assuming it is the cause of my headache I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT WILL EFFECTIVELY TREAT IT AT THIS POINT, NEITHER DOES SHOEMAKER. And we don't even know how in the world to figure out if it IS the cause of my headache.I could write more about borrelia, but I refuse to waste any more of my time replying to Tony in Australia where rickettsia is rampant.a Carnes who first got joint pains from

flea bites, and then got a bull's eye rash in South Carolina where Lyme disease "does not exist" but did not crash until a few years later - probably stressed by a molding building at that point. a Carnes whose entire family is positive for borrelia, but that is not the key player, is it?WHO IS GOING TO PUT THE PIECES TOGETHER??? TONY, RIGHT? OF COURSE, RIGHT.>> Penny,> > >If Tony's such an idiot, why is he healthier now than before he got sick?> > I know loads of healthy idiots, don't you? And some of them were sick and aren't sick any longer, does that make them smart?> > That being said, you know full well I totally think SERIOUS bacterial infections are at the root of all these fatiguing, on-going illnesses. And nobody better than me has tried all the big guns serious abx and combos thereof and for a long time. AND I never poo-pooed the notion of

various infection soups being responsable for our demise, including the ones Tony knows. But I just keep getting sick and tired of Tony NOT being aware of the serious and incredibly persisting nature of some infections he just has not looked into, and I am sick and tired of the fact that he keeps on pouring shit on them.> > I have recently taken an antiparasitic drug and I sprung 3 beautiful crops of several EM rashes. I had not had a skin manifestation since my very first EM rash in 1982. I strongly suspect that borrelia were released from the dying parasites. Very impressive, I have the photos if you're interested. > > I have wanted to get to the bottom of my infections but it is not the easy slap dash job that Tony keeps claiming it is. > > Nelly> > > Re: [infections] Tony does not BELIEVE in ticks!!!> > > If Tony's such an idiot, why is he healthier now than before he got sick?> > As usual, people focus on the wrong thing. Ticks or no ticks is not the point. The point we need to focus on is chronic infections in general. How to identify them correctly and then how to treat them properly. > > Plus, the other point is that we need to stop being satisfied with the first diagnosis we get from a lab that admittedly has an incredibly high rate of positive tests (like Igenex) and consider that we may have other pathogens that are flying under the radar that are keeping us sick. > > It's like Shoemaker keeps telling us...we can't overcome

mold sensitivities if we don't clear up our staph colonizations first. How many other problems will clear up if we address those staph colonizations?> > Even people like a, who's actually been dx'd with staph and has so many symptoms of a head infection, still wants to ignore that something so ordinary and common can be keeping her sick. But do people ask themselves why Staph is so ordinary and common and even deadly? Because it's incredibly hard to kill!> > That's what we need to be focusing on. How to actually kill the organisms that are so hard to kill, whether it's staph or lyme or whatever. Shoemaker's on the right track. His only problem is he hasn't gotten aggressive enough to truly deal with the staph. > > Once you get rid of the staph, the body is able to take care of many of our other problems. I've seen this happen time and again. MCS disappears. Allergies disappear.

Inflammation disappears. Fatigue disappears. So why not focus for a change on getting rid of the nastiest, most intractable bugs, and see what happens? Some people manage this by treating lyme so agressively that it kills the staph in the process as well. That's great. But also lucky since most people don't treat lyme that agressively. Clearly, if you don't treat agressively, or correctly identify your organisms to begin with to know which drugs to use, you are making the battle even more impossible to win.> > penny> > > > > > Nelly Pointis <janel@...> wrote:> > yet in my 50 years on the planet I haven't > >heard anyone or seen anyone in my city remove, discuss, or have > >anything to do with ticks.> > Tony,> > If you had been able to get your elbow unstuck from the bar of that Melbourne pub of yours you might

have!!!> > You're forever trying to straighten up people who gobble up whatever garbage is dished up to them and yet you're the biggest idiot of them all!!!!!!!!> > I lived in Sydney for about 20 years and I HAVE encountered ticks in Australia MANY MANY TIMES and so have MOST of MY friends. In fact I encountered ticks every time I set foot outside Bondi Beach (the sandy part that is!), I certainly got some walking around in parks in Northen Sydney.> > Nelly>

[Guest guest]

I forgot to add one other big reason why organisms may not be completely eliminated by a good abx and that's because even if they're sensitive to a drug, drugs can't always get to certain locations due to restricted blood flow to those areas. Or even if it gets there, it may not be able to penetrate the various kinds of defense mechanisms the organisms have, such as biofilms. If the blood can't even get the drugs there, it sure can't get its own immune system responses there either. That's why you need to be looking at the possibility of hypercoagulation and blood thinners. Especially with headaches. Migraines and cluster headaches often have a vascular basis, why not yours? Cluster headaches are often treated with blood thinners. Infection thickens your blood. See any kind of connection here? This is not my own fabrication which I've just felt like harping on for 2+ years. This comes from many

infectious disease docs and orthopedic docs who deal with similar kinds of infections on a daily basis. penny Penny Houle <pennyhoule@...> wrote: a, do you realize that just because a staph is MRSA, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's not sensitive to other antibiotics? I've got MRSA, but whaddaya know, my staph still responds to penicillin, at least to some degree, not enough to completely eliminate it, but

enough to keep it knocked down. My sinuses on the other hand, barely respond to penicillin, and perhaps that's because the pseudomonas, or actinomyces, or a different variety of staph laughs at penicillin. That's why I have to resort to salt and betadine and bleach to control my sinuses & the infections that flare up around my teeth, until I can find the thing that is going to eliminate these organisms once and for all. The point is, you've got an identified MRSA and you don't make the slightest effort whatsoever to learn about it or try to identify what it might be sensitive to. Or to find out if you have any other staphs or organisms that are contributing to the mush in your head and which drugs they might be sensitive to. You'd rather speculate about possible viruses and conspiracy theories. You say you can't get tested where you are. Well I know dozens of people who could

have said the same thing, including myself, but we kept pounding the pavement until we got tested and our organisms identified. If you wanted to, you could as well. That's what drives me nuts. You have all these red flags pointing at your head and you ignore them. This isn't the first time. I tried to warn you about other serious red flags and all it got me was involved in a ridiculous law suit. THEN you saw a flash of red for yourself. I've been hoping against hope you'll finally grasp something here as well. So forgive me if I'm exasperated with you, but that's just the way it is. My patience has worn out. penny Penny Houle <pennyhoule > wrote: Minimizing? God a, that's one of the most unbelievably bizarre things I've heard. Tony was screaming about staph (MRSA isn't even the worst staph) long before Shoemaker showed up. Tony had it, identified it, then he cured it. If you'd pay attention you might have caught that. The issue is to stop ignoring it and get a grip and start figuring out how to fight it! sheesh! penny pjeanneus <pj7@...> wrote: Nelly,Thanks for posting this. I also feel that Tony is minimizing what we are up against. Just one example - MRSA. I have it, my husband has it, we have both been treated for it. Assuming it is the cause of my headache I HAVE NO

CLUE WHAT WILL EFFECTIVELY TREAT IT AT THIS POINT, NEITHER DOES SHOEMAKER. And we don't even know how in the world to figure out if it IS the cause of my headache.I could write more about borrelia, but I refuse to waste any more of my time replying to Tony in Australia where rickettsia is rampant.a Carnes who first got joint pains from flea bites, and then got a bull's eye rash in South Carolina where Lyme disease "does not exist" but did not crash until a few years later - probably stressed by a molding building at that point. a Carnes whose entire family is positive for borrelia, but that is not the key player, is it?WHO IS GOING TO PUT THE PIECES TOGETHER??? TONY, RIGHT? OF COURSE, RIGHT.>> Penny,> > >If Tony's such an idiot, why is he healthier now than before he got sick?> > I know loads of healthy idiots, don't you? And some of them were sick and

aren't sick any longer, does that make them smart?> > That being said, you know full well I totally think SERIOUS bacterial infections are at the root of all these fatiguing, on-going illnesses. And nobody better than me has tried all the big guns serious abx and combos thereof and for a long time. AND I never poo-pooed the notion of various infection soups being responsable for our demise, including the ones Tony knows. But I just keep getting sick and tired of Tony NOT being aware of the serious and incredibly persisting nature of some infections he just has not looked into, and I am sick and tired of the fact that he keeps on pouring shit on them.> > I have recently taken an antiparasitic drug and I sprung 3 beautiful crops of several EM rashes. I had not had a skin manifestation since my very first EM rash in 1982. I strongly suspect that borrelia were released from the dying parasites. Very

impressive, I have the photos if you're interested. > > I have wanted to get to the bottom of my infections but it is not the easy slap dash job that Tony keeps claiming it is. > > Nelly> > > Re: [infections] Tony does not BELIEVE in ticks!!!> > > If Tony's such an idiot, why is he healthier now than before he got sick?> > As usual, people focus on the wrong thing. Ticks or no ticks is not the point. The point we need to focus on is chronic infections in general. How to identify them correctly and then how to treat them properly. > > Plus, the other point is that we need to stop being

satisfied with the first diagnosis we get from a lab that admittedly has an incredibly high rate of positive tests (like Igenex) and consider that we may have other pathogens that are flying under the radar that are keeping us sick. > > It's like Shoemaker keeps telling us...we can't overcome mold sensitivities if we don't clear up our staph colonizations first. How many other problems will clear up if we address those staph colonizations?> > Even people like a, who's actually been dx'd with staph and has so many symptoms of a head infection, still wants to ignore that something so ordinary and common can be keeping her sick. But do people ask themselves why Staph is so ordinary and common and even deadly? Because it's incredibly hard to kill!> > That's what we need to be focusing on. How to actually kill the organisms that are so hard to kill, whether it's staph or lyme or

whatever. Shoemaker's on the right track. His only problem is he hasn't gotten aggressive enough to truly deal with the staph. > > Once you get rid of the staph, the body is able to take care of many of our other problems. I've seen this happen time and again. MCS disappears. Allergies disappear. Inflammation disappears. Fatigue disappears. So why not focus for a change on getting rid of the nastiest, most intractable bugs, and see what happens? Some people manage this by treating lyme so agressively that it kills the staph in the process as well. That's great. But also lucky since most people don't treat lyme that agressively. Clearly, if you don't treat agressively, or correctly identify your organisms to begin with to know which drugs to use, you are making the battle even more impossible to win.> > penny> > > > > > Nelly Pointis <janel@...>

wrote:> > yet in my 50 years on the planet I haven't > >heard anyone or seen anyone in my city remove, discuss, or have > >anything to do with ticks.> > Tony,> > If you had been able to get your elbow unstuck from the bar of that Melbourne pub of yours you might have!!!> > You're forever trying to straighten up people who gobble up whatever garbage is dished up to them and yet you're the biggest idiot of them all!!!!!!!!> > I lived in Sydney for about 20 years and I HAVE encountered ticks in Australia MANY MANY TIMES and so have MOST of MY friends. In fact I encountered ticks every time I set foot outside Bondi Beach (the sandy part that is!), I certainly got some walking around in parks in Northen Sydney.> > Nelly>

[Guest guest]

Tony, your whiplash comment brings back memories of when I first met

you. Must have been over 6 years ago on those old CFS/FMS forums

(most of which you were eventually banned from :-). I was so brain

fogged & fatigued and you were so beligerent in your rants that I

couldn't understand more than 2% of what you were saying back then.

All you did was infuriate everyone with your talk of infections and

staph and slime (biofilms) and NewCastle and Tarello and getting

cultures & sensitivities and blood stains done. Not to mention

ranting about toxins being like battery acid running through our

veins! Most of the response was limited to people screaming at you

about what a rude bastard you were and how there was no way in hell

that infection was causing their CFS/FMS. Their main argument was

that CFS/FMS had no known cause...so there! lol!

But even through my brain fog, things you said kept ringing true to

me. At first I'd find your idea ludicrous, but then your predictions

about some person would be proved 100% right-on, or some months or

years later someone " reputable " would come along touting the same

thing you were saying much earlier but in more scientific terms (aka

toxins, hypercoagulation and biofilms). I saw it happen time and

again. Watching all this unfold finally got me to ditch my idiot

docs, clear the shelves of supplements and get myself into some

diagnosticians' chairs who could identify infectious causes for my

symptoms. One thing led to another, and what do I find but

irrefutable proof that I'd actually been walking around with

asymptomatic sinus and jaw infections for who knows how many years?

But anyway, what I really wanted to comment on was your mention of

whiplash and FMS. I remember so well how 5 or 6 years ago, many, many

people complained of acquiring FMS shortly after experiencing

whiplash, yet no one, except you, ever made any connection between

the two events.

Then there were all the people with blatantly obvious sinus and

dental infections (either current or past) on those same forums, who

wouldn't even for a second consider that those infections (or others)

might have allowed an opening, (just like the minute cracking of bone

and cartilage around the spine from whiplash), for the infection to

finally take hold and spread to more vulnerable areas of the body.

(It still cracks me up how the Guafenisen Protocols's moderate

success with FMS was touted for all kinds of reasons other than the

simplest ones ...it thins mucous & blood and has pain killing

properties.)

Almost everyone who suffers from these mysterious, undiagnosable

conditions will point to problems in their heads, and yet they won't

look any further into it to understand what's actually going on in

their heads that might be causing their " CFS " type diagnoses. They're

too hung up on researching their labels, rather than the causes of

their labels.

The other monstrous clue is joint inflammation. All these FMS

patients with reactive arthritis type symptoms. And yet they don't

seriously investigate the documented infectious causes of joint and

arthritic conditions despite there being citations all through the

medical journals. They'd rather get a lump dx of " FMS " and take some

mega supplements a la Dr. Franco. Dx's which docs are more than happy

to hand out, as the real problem is much too difficult to

contemplate, let alone cope with. So this goes on until eventually

the FMS patients do test positive for something identifiable like RA

or really nasty, like ALS. I've seen this happen time and again while

people and docs just sit by and wait for it to happen. Argh.

At least there's been a little progress. At least now there's finally

some degree of consideration & acceptance that infections in general

may be at least one basis of many of our illnesses. That's a start.

The big hurdle now is to get people to go further into understanding

the organisms themselves. How they avoid detection and use defenses

like biofilms. How amazingly adaptive they are. How they can change

from cell wall to cell wall deficient. How they communicate with each

other, signal each other, turn off and on, hibernate then come back

out. How when they get irritated they spew out toxins and step up

their production and how they overcome the Immune System's

inflammatory attempts to control them and even use our immune systems

against us by hijacking them. And especially why throwing a random

antibiotic at these organisms now and again is no more effective than

throwing a thimble full of water on a bonfire; actually it's more

like throwing on oil. And most damaging of all, spending more time

scrutinizing our immune systems' shortcoming than the invaders

themselves.

I know you get incredibly frustrated with the slowness of all this,

but the reality is, it takes a long time for people to come around.

Look at the poor guy who had to give himself ulcers, just to prove

his point. At least there's been a tiny amount of progress. This list

exists and at least some people are considering it.

penny

>

> Why can't someone give me an explanation of what they beleive

happens

> to accident victims- whiplash then fibromyalgia?

> Just think this one thru? Is it because many in society have got

> oppurtunistic infections waiting to take a foothold?Is it possable

> that when I purchase my culture plates they tell me the students

are

> no longer allowed them because when then common bacteria form

decent

> sized colonies they are dangerous..

[Guest guest]

It certainly hasn't been slap-dash for me either.

I think we all beleive pathogen burden is at the root of ALOT (maybe

all) disease. It certainly was the major killer before abx is is

STILL the major killer in developing countries.

ALong with becoming a developed nation - I think we in the USA also

developed a an underestimated view most of these bugs. EGO the root

cause there I think.

Barb

> > yet in my 50 years on the planet I haven't

> >heard anyone or seen anyone in my city remove, discuss, or

have

> >anything to do with ticks.

>

> Tony,

>

> If you had been able to get your elbow unstuck from the bar of

that Melbourne pub of yours you might have!!!

>

> You're forever trying to straighten up people who gobble up

whatever garbage is dished up to them and yet you're the biggest

idiot of them all!!!!!!!!

>

> I lived in Sydney for about 20 years and I HAVE encountered

ticks in Australia MANY MANY TIMES and so have MOST of MY friends.

In fact I encountered ticks every time I set foot outside Bondi

Beach (the sandy part that is!), I certainly got some walking around

in parks in Northen Sydney.

>

> Nelly

>