Guest guest Posted June 11, 2007 Report Share Posted June 11, 2007 I am considering Yasko's basic protocol via Rich V. However, since I started thinking about it I found my blood B levels were off the chart high just on Nature's Way B50. This included folic acid and B 12. What is wrong with this picture. Rich says it may be my cells aren't using what is available, but I am scared of further supplementation of any B vitamins in any form. Since then I came across this article - it does not look good for supplementation of folic acid. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19052484/ MSNBC.com Folic acid may hike colon polyp risk FDA should not increase levels of vitamin in fortified foods, scientists say The Associated Press Updated: 2:27 p.m. PT June 5, 2007 CHICAGO - High doses of folic acid do not prevent precancerous colon polyps in people prone to them and may actually increase the risk of developing the growths, a new study finds. It's the latest evidence that taking too many vitamins may be harmful. Last month, a study linked heavy vitamin use to fatal prostate cancer, and other research has shown beta-carotene pills can heighten smokers' risk of lung cancer. The results surprised scientists. Previous studies showed diets low in folic acid led to a higher risk of colon cancer. Now researchers speculate that some folic acid helps - as long as the colon is free of microscopic cancer cells. But once cancer starts, folic acid may feed its growth. Some scientists who reviewed the new findings said folic acid fortification, now required in some U.S. foods, should not be increased and that other nations considering fortification should be cautious. The new findings, appearing in Wednesday's Journal of the American Medical Association, are based on data from 987 adults with a history of precancerous colon polyps. Those who took folic acid developed more growths, or adenomas, several years later than the people who took dummy pills. " You really should not take folic acid to prevent colorectal adenomas. It's ineffective for that purpose, " said study co-author Bernard Cole of Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center. Folic acid is an artificial version of folate, a B vitamin found in leafy vegetables, citrus fruit and beans. It prevents birth defects and is needed for the production of red blood cells. Foods fortified with folic acid In the study, participants randomly were assigned to take either folic acid or a dummy pill. Researchers followed them for about six years. Participants got screening colonoscopies a few years into the study and 44.1 percent of the folic-acid takers had precancerous polyps. That compared to 42.4 percent of the dummy-pill group. The difference was not statistically significant, but the results of a second round of colonoscopies a few years later were more troubling. Among the folic-acid takers, 11.6 percent had advanced adenomas while 6.9 percent of the dummy-pill group did. And folic acid more than doubled the risk of having three or more precancerous polyps. For those who got the real vitamin, the daily dose was 1 milligram, more than double the recommended daily allowance for folic acid. All participants consumed even more folic acid than the researchers had in mind because the Food and Drug Administration began requiring enriched grains to be fortified with folic acid in 1998, several years after the study began. The FDA adopted the fortification policy to prevent birth defects, and some health advocates want even higher levels of folic acid in foods. But fortification may have unintended effects on people at risk of cancer, said Dr. Mason, an expert on folate and cancer prevention at Tufts University in Boston who was not involved in the new study. " Right now it would not be appropriate to blindly go forth and further increase the levels of folic acid without better understanding the potential risks, " Mason said. " And whether we continue folic acid fortification should be an open debate over the next few years. " Mason said he believes folic acid someday may earn a role in cancer prevention, perhaps at smaller doses than given in the study. No cancer rate difference Cancer patients should discuss taking vitamins with their doctors, and anyone over 50 who takes vitamins should have a colorectal screening test, said Cornelia Ulrich of Seattle's Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, who co-wrote an accompanying editorial. " Older individuals often have abnormalities in the colon and folic acid may promote their growth, " Ulrich said. Researchers did not see any real difference in rates of colon cancer, just in the precancerous colon growths. Some of the participants also took aspirin as part of the study. The aspirin seemed to protect the colon against the harms of folic acid. The study was not designed to look at prostate cancer, but more men who took folic acid developed prostate cancer than did the other men (7.3 percent vs. 2.8 percent). Grants from the National Institutes of Health funded the study. Some of the researchers reported financial ties to drug companies, such as consulting work and research support. C 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19052484/ MSN Privacy . Legal C 2007 MSNBC.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Thanks for posting this. It sent me running upstairs to count mcg of Folic Acid. If somebody is only taking the 1/4 recommended tab of Folapro, that is well under the dose taken in the study you cited. However, some other Yasko supplements have Folic acid in them, so it's probably wise for anybody doing Yasko to add up their total and see what it is. Some people doing Yasko don't have to take Folapro -- it depends on your specific genetics whether or not you can process regular Folic acid or not. Er, I should be specifying the specific forms of it but I forgot again what they are! The question is, if one has a lot of unused folic acid in their blood, supposedly because of an impaired methylation cycle, might it not be better to try to fix the methylation cycle than just live with the known excess? Presumably if you get the cycle working better, there won't be so much unused folic acid in the bloodstream. It sure would be nice to see results from a big study.... - Kate On Jun 11, 2007, at 5:17 PM, pjeanneus wrote: > I am considering Yasko's basic protocol via Rich V. However, since I > started thinking about it I found my blood B levels were off the > chart high just on Nature's Way B50. This included folic acid and B > 12. What is wrong with this picture. Rich says it may be my cells > aren't using what is available, but I am scared of further > supplementation of any B vitamins in any form. > > Since then I came across this article - it does not look good for > supplementation of folic acid. > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19052484/ > > MSNBC.com > > Folic acid may hike colon polyp risk > FDA should not increase levels of vitamin in fortified foods, > scientists say The Associated Press > Updated: 2:27 p.m. PT June 5, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Or maybe Yasko is dead wrong. I do not think I want to be the guinea pig anymore - not on supplements. I was hardly taking any folic acid at all in B 50 by Nature's Way - mostly B 6 and it was high too, and it causes nerve damage in excess. How does anyone know if my mythelation cycle isn't working and that is what caused me to store all that folic acid in my blood? B vitamins are not peppermint pills. I think it is creepy. a > > Thanks for posting this. It sent me running upstairs to count mcg of > Folic Acid. If somebody is only taking the 1/4 recommended tab of > Folapro, that is well under the dose taken in the study you cited. > However, some other Yasko supplements have Folic acid in them, so > it's probably wise for anybody doing Yasko to add up their total and > see what it is. Some people doing Yasko don't have to take Folapro - - > it depends on your specific genetics whether or not you can process > regular Folic acid or not. Er, I should be specifying the specific > forms of it but I forgot again what they are! > > The question is, if one has a lot of unused folic acid in their > blood, supposedly because of an impaired methylation cycle, might it > not be better to try to fix the methylation cycle than just live with > the known excess? Presumably if you get the cycle working better, > there won't be so much unused folic acid in the bloodstream. It sure > would be nice to see results from a big study.... > > - Kate > > On Jun 11, 2007, at 5:17 PM, pjeanneus wrote: > > I am considering Yasko's basic protocol via Rich V. However, since I > > started thinking about it I found my blood B levels were off the > > chart high just on Nature's Way B50. This included folic acid and B > > 12. What is wrong with this picture. Rich says it may be my cells > > aren't using what is available, but I am scared of further > > supplementation of any B vitamins in any form. > > > > Since then I came across this article - it does not look good for > > supplementation of folic acid. > > > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19052484/ > > > > MSNBC.com > > > > Folic acid may hike colon polyp risk > > FDA should not increase levels of vitamin in fortified foods, > > scientists say The Associated Press > > Updated: 2:27 p.m. PT June 5, 2007 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2007 Report Share Posted June 12, 2007 Hi, a. I think that the problem here is that people who come from a background with the drug treatment paradigm are accustomed to looking at the effects of one substance (usually a drug) in isolation. This makes no sense when you are dealing with essential nutrients, because the natural biochemical system of the body operates by means of cycles and pathways. If you want to assist the natural biochemistry, you must consider entire cycles or pathways, and give them all the nutrients they need. Giving just one nutrient in excess does not help, and in some cases can do harm. They just aren't approaching the subject properly. And of course, it's always a good idea to look into who did the work and who paid for it. There is a large commercial interest in downplaying the benefits of nonpatentable, natural substances, because they are in competition with drugs, which are patented and sold at high prices, making them much more profitable. Getting back to your case, as I said before, I think it is very likely that your body is not able to make use of folate, because your methylation cycle is blocked. That can certainly account for a high measured folate value in the blood. Blood serum folate is primarily 5-methyltetrahydrofolate. This is the form that builds up when a person is in the so-called " folate trap " situation. That's what happens when the enzyme methionine synthase is blocked, producing a methylation cycle block. In this situation, piling on more folate alone is not the best answer. That's why the treatment approach I have suggested involves more than a single supplement. The entire cycle and related pathways must be supported to break the logjam. I think that there's a good chance that the current version of the simplified treatment approach based on the glutathione depletion-- methylation cycle block hypothesis would help you. Incidentally, the number of people who have notified me that they are trying this treatment currently stands at forty-three and is climbing. Reports continue to come in of improvement in CFS symptoms beginning even one or two days into the treatment, and continuing as the treatment is continued. Early observations from several people now are that sleep is improved starting the first night, body temperature is restored to normal within a few days, and thyroid function returns to normal as early as one day into the treatment. Pain goes down, energy goes up, and brain fog clears. As more people read these reports, more of them are climbing aboard. If you want to track this, join the ImmuneSupport FM/CFS discussion board, where the majority of these people are reporting. It's really getting exciting! Rich > > I am considering Yasko's basic protocol via Rich V. However, since I > started thinking about it I found my blood B levels were off the > chart high just on Nature's Way B50. This included folic acid and B > 12. What is wrong with this picture. Rich says it may be my cells > aren't using what is available, but I am scared of further > supplementation of any B vitamins in any form. > > Since then I came across this article - it does not look good for > supplementation of folic acid. > > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19052484/ > > > MSNBC.com > > > Folic acid may hike colon polyp risk > FDA should not increase levels of vitamin in fortified foods, > scientists say The Associated Press > Updated: 2:27 p.m. PT June 5, 2007 > > CHICAGO - High doses of folic acid do not prevent precancerous colon > polyps in people prone to them and may actually increase the risk of > developing the growths, a new study finds. > > It's the latest evidence that taking too many vitamins may be > harmful. Last month, a study linked heavy vitamin use to fatal > prostate cancer, and other research has shown beta-carotene pills can > heighten smokers' risk of lung cancer. > > The results surprised scientists. Previous studies showed diets low > in folic acid led to a higher risk of colon cancer. > > Now researchers speculate that some folic acid helps - as long as the > colon is free of microscopic cancer cells. But once cancer starts, > folic acid may feed its growth. > > Some scientists who reviewed the new findings said folic acid > fortification, now required in some U.S. foods, should not be > increased and that other nations considering fortification should be > cautious. > > The new findings, appearing in Wednesday's Journal of the American > Medical Association, are based on data from 987 adults with a history > of precancerous colon polyps. Those who took folic acid developed > more growths, or adenomas, several years later than the people who > took dummy pills. > > " You really should not take folic acid to prevent colorectal > adenomas. It's ineffective for that purpose, " said study co-author > Bernard Cole of Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center. > > Folic acid is an artificial version of folate, a B vitamin found in > leafy vegetables, citrus fruit and beans. It prevents birth defects > and is needed for the production of red blood cells. > > Foods fortified with folic acid > In the study, participants randomly were assigned to take either > folic acid or a dummy pill. Researchers followed them for about six > years. > > Participants got screening colonoscopies a few years into the study > and 44.1 percent of the folic-acid takers had precancerous polyps. > That compared to > 42.4 percent of the dummy-pill group. > > The difference was not statistically significant, but the results of > a second round of colonoscopies a few years later were more > troubling. Among the folic-acid takers, 11.6 percent had advanced > adenomas while 6.9 percent of the dummy-pill group did. And folic > acid more than doubled the risk of having three or more precancerous > polyps. > > For those who got the real vitamin, the daily dose was 1 milligram, > more than double the recommended daily allowance for folic acid. All > participants consumed even more folic acid than the researchers had > in mind because the Food and Drug Administration began requiring > enriched grains to be fortified with folic acid in 1998, several > years after the study began. > > The FDA adopted the fortification policy to prevent birth defects, > and some health advocates want even higher levels of folic acid in > foods. But fortification may have unintended effects on people at > risk of cancer, said Dr. Mason, an expert on folate and cancer > prevention at Tufts University in Boston who was not involved in the > new study. > > " Right now it would not be appropriate to blindly go forth and > further increase the levels of folic acid without better > understanding the potential risks, " Mason said. " And whether we > continue folic acid fortification should be an open debate over the > next few years. " > > Mason said he believes folic acid someday may earn a role in cancer > prevention, perhaps at smaller doses than given in the study. > > No cancer rate difference > Cancer patients should discuss taking vitamins with their doctors, > and anyone over 50 who takes vitamins should have a colorectal > screening test, said Cornelia Ulrich of Seattle's Fred Hutchinson > Cancer Research Center, who co-wrote an accompanying editorial. > > " Older individuals often have abnormalities in the colon and folic > acid may promote their growth, " Ulrich said. > > Researchers did not see any real difference in rates of colon cancer, > just in the precancerous colon growths. > > > Some of the participants also took aspirin as part of the study. The > aspirin seemed to protect the colon against the harms of folic acid. > > The study was not designed to look at prostate cancer, but more men > who took folic acid developed prostate cancer than did the other men > (7.3 percent vs. > 2.8 percent). > > Grants from the National Institutes of Health funded the study. Some > of the researchers reported financial ties to drug companies, such as > consulting work and research support. > > > C 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may > not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. > URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19052484/ > > > MSN Privacy . Legal > C 2007 MSNBC.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 I guess that's why Medicine is a Science and Healing is an Art. I really do not understand why Drs. can't have a list of extensive blood tests to run (blood contents of vits/mins.. and EVERYTHING else you can measure from blood)to find out the baseline of the person not feeling well... it's like data is collected helter skelter - or not collected and complied at all- it's not looked at- and everyone just guesses at everything and charges an arm and a leg. a's a perfect example of this - and my RA friend another - her DOc has never looked at the blood levels of B even though the skin'll slough off her gums (and other mucous membranes) when she takes certain meds- this is corrected by LARGE doses of folic acid.. makes me wonder if she's absorbing it in the first place. Barb > > > I am considering Yasko's basic protocol via Rich V. However, > since I > > > started thinking about it I found my blood B levels were off the > > > chart high just on Nature's Way B50. This included folic acid and > B > > > 12. What is wrong with this picture. Rich says it may be my cells > > > aren't using what is available, but I am scared of further > > > supplementation of any B vitamins in any form. > > > > > > Since then I came across this article - it does not look good for > > > supplementation of folic acid. > > > > > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19052484/ > > > > > > MSNBC.com > > > > > > Folic acid may hike colon polyp risk > > > FDA should not increase levels of vitamin in fortified foods, > > > scientists say The Associated Press > > > Updated: 2:27 p.m. PT June 5, 2007 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 I so agree. Doing baseline blood testing, then observing changes as they relate to symptoms would be one of the easiest things in the world and would be such a helpful diagnostic & treatment aid. ... Not to mention a means for early recognition and prevention of all kinds of future illnesses. penny Barb Peck <egroups1bp@...> wrote: I guess that's why Medicine is a Science and Healing is an Art.I really do not understand why Drs. can't have a list of extensive blood tests to run (blood contents of vits/mins.. and EVERYTHING else you can measure from blood)to find out the baseline of the person not feeling well... it's like data is collected helter skelter - or not collected and complied at all- it's not looked at- and everyone just guesses at everything and charges an arm and a leg.a's a perfect example of this - and my RA friend another - her DOc has never looked at the blood levels of B even though the skin'll slough off her gums (and other mucous membranes) when she takes certain meds- this is corrected by LARGE doses of folic acid.. makes me wonder if she's absorbing it in the first place.Barb> > > I am considering Yasko's basic protocol via Rich V. However, > since I> > > started thinking about it I found my blood B levels were off the> > > chart high just on Nature's Way B50. This included folic acid and > B> > > 12. What is wrong with this picture. Rich says it may be my cells> > > aren't using what is available, but I am scared of further> > > supplementation of any B vitamins in any form.> > >> > > Since then I came across this article - it does not look good for> > > supplementation of folic acid.> > >> > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19052484/> > >> > > MSNBC.com> > >> > > Folic acid may hike colon polyp risk> > > FDA should not increase levels of vitamin in fortified foods,> > > scientists say The Associated Press> > > Updated: 2:27 p.m. PT June 5, 2007> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Has your friend tried the other forms of folic acid that are available? Maybe her body could use them more efficiently. Yes, the (lack of) testing is very frustrating. I don't think most docs know much about vits and minerals, or they don't pay much attention anyway. - Kate On Jun 14, 2007, at 9:56 AM, Barb Peck wrote: > I guess that's why Medicine is a Science and Healing is an Art. > > I really do not understand why Drs. can't have a list of extensive > blood tests to run (blood contents of vits/mins.. and EVERYTHING else > you can measure from blood)to find out the baseline of the person not > feeling well... it's like data is collected helter skelter - or not > collected and complied at all- it's not looked at- and everyone just > guesses at everything and charges an arm and a leg. > > a's a perfect example of this - and my RA friend another - her > DOc has never looked at the blood levels of B even though the skin'll > slough off her gums (and other mucous membranes) when she takes > certain meds- this is corrected by LARGE doses of folic acid.. makes > me wonder if she's absorbing it in the first place. > > Barb > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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