RE: Re: MS from Bioms in Vancouver, BC

[Guest guest]

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the reply and the links. With my first

excursion into HRT the levels were taken very high to replicate pregnancy to a

degree, and without benefit. However, of course the product was a

synthetic oestradiol, rather than a natural oestriol, which I imagine could

make all the difference in the world?

I too have had elevated ANA titre which is not relevant to

Lupus. All seems to link.

Interestingly though the benefits accrued in pregnancy were not

lost immediately and continued for almost 2 years; I put my decline and relapse

thereafter largely down to having a daughter who basically refused to

sleep for the first two years of her life!

Rosie

Rosie

I think prolactin is generally considered pro-inflammatory, not anti-

inflammatory. There's plenty of papers cited on PubMed discussing

autoimmunity in the context of elevated prolactin (e.g.,

hyperprolactinemia). Some autoimmune diseases (e.g., MS and RA but

not lupus) tend to remit during pregnancy with relapse postpartum.

I think prolactin surges postpartum, not during pregnancy generally.

The remission of some autoimmune diseases during pregnancy is one of

the most important clues into the nature of autoimmunity and I think

more should be done to figure this out. Immunesupport.com has

plenty of posts by women whose fibro remitted during pregnancy. If

that isn't a critical clue into the nature of fibro, then what is?

You said that HRT made you worse. But that doesn't mean that

estrogen isn't a major player in your pregancy remissions.

Estrogen's effects on the immune system are viewed by some to be

biphasic--women have more estrogen than men, and that estrogen (if

memory serves) increases still further during pregnancy. The normal

levels of estrogen in women may be pro-inflammatory and this may

help to explain, in part, why women are more prone to autoimmunity.

But high doses of estrogen (as seen in pregnancy) appears to be anti-

inflammatory. Here are a couple of papers referring to the biphasic

effects of estrogen on the immune system:

http://tinyurl.com/3dadqh

http://tinyurl.com/3csrcx

To understand these abstracts you need to know that IL-10 is immune

suppressive, TGFb is essentially immune suppressive in the absence

of IL-6 but pro-inflammatory in the presence of IL-6, IFNg is

produced by Th1 cells (though it looks like Th17 cells, not Th1

cells, may drive much of autoimmunity and in fact Th1 cells can

suppress Th17 cells so Th1 cells may actually be beneficial), IL-4

may promote antibody production but is generally viewed not to drive

MS or RA (but may drive lupus) and, most importantly, TNFa is

produced by the proinflammatory Th17 cells. It is TNF that they are

saying shows the biphasic effect of estrogen (i.e., estradiol).

I'm really glad you reported your experience with HRT and

pregnancy. They seem perfectly in line with the apparent biphasic

effects of estrogen on inflammation (I'm assuming that HRT restores

estrogen to pre-menopausal levels, instead of recapitulating the

very high levels seen during pregnancy).

Matt

>

>

>

> Hi,

>

> I'm `de-lurking' again for a moment as I find this thread very

interesting.

>

> I noted earlier in the year that work on mice has found that

prolactin can

> re-myelinate. Given that pwme seem to show UBO's which may mean

> de-myelination, and given my profound remissions during my two

pregnancies –

> couldn't all this add up to some type of treatment for at least a

subset of

> us with ME?

>

> I would have to add that I realise there may be other parameters

than

> increased prolactin levels in pregnancy which could be attributed

for the

> remission;

>

> Hormonal changes, increased blood volume, increased cortisol,

changes in

> immune suppression etc. To this end I have tried HRT twice – to

no avail

> and both times making me very much worse, so I think (for me ) I

can

> discount oestradiol, progesterone (and in my second attempt,

testosterone)

> as having any impact on my condition, but I do find the

> prolactin/re-myelination link a thought provoking one, but few

people seem

> to have the same enthusiasm for it. Am I deluded in thinking that

there

> could be a link here?

>

> Rosie (normally lurking ;-) )

>

> I wrote this summary in 2004 - don't know how this product is

doing

> currently.

>

> BIOMS MEDICAL (MS.TO) publicly traded

> : 780-413-7152

> f: 780-408-3040

> www.biomsmedical.com

> The visionary who started this company wanted to treat his wife

who

> had severe nonremitting MS. She is currently doing great! MBP8298

is

> synthetic myelin basic protein. This protein is the coating around

> nerves which is attacked in multiple sclerosis. Injecting

synthetic

> MBP supersaturates the body with MBP and causes the inflamatory

attack

> on nerve lining to stop. Patients with primary and secondary MS

have

> experienced remission given one injection every six months. This

> product is in Phase II trials.

>