Re: tick...tock...tick...tock...TICK!!

[Guest guest]

It's good you got it out quickly. My daughter has been bitten by a few ticks, so I was encouraged when Oprah's t.v. doc talked about ticks and said the trick is to remove them as quickly as possible. He said the old ideas of the head partially remaining or irritating them into retreating are both wrong. According to him, infection occurs when the tick regurgitates the blood after feeding, and this happens when they get upset. So...if your wife was able to remove the body fairly quickly, you're most likely safe. Since it had basically just bitten you, sounds like you're especially in good shape. I sure hope so. I got ring worm as a child because I also just had to save a cat. Hopefully that will be the extent of your suffering and you'll continue with your good deeds. :-) penny geraldod

<geraldod@...> wrote: Well, its 3:52 am here and I was just awakened by feeling a tick drillinginto my shoulder blade. The wife got it out with tweezers, includingthe head.What a way to wake up, especially after spending years reading thisthread and all its posts on Lyme. We rescued a little dog about amonth ago that had ticks and now is being treated for ehrlichiosiswith doxy. She and our other two dogs had a frontline treatment a fewweeks ago, maybe that's why the tick jumped ship off of a dog

onto me.So we dumped some rubbing alcohol on the spot, and then applied someof Barb's famous recipe cream (triple antibiotic, antifungal andcorticosteroid combo). The only antibiotics I have is some ampicillin,so I took one 500mg pill, and will take one every 6 hours for the nextfew days but the 'experts' say the tick needs to be attached for 24hours or longer to transmit the lyme bugs. I suppose I could have'borrowed' some of the dog's doxy, but I didn't think about it until now.Any preventative recommendations from the Lyme experts on this listwould be appreciated.Last year we rescued a kitten and then both of us got ringworm, lol....No good deed goes unpunished!! Time to go back to sleep...Jerry

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info, Penny.

I was surprised that the bite woke me up...once awake I was itching

like crazy so I got up to find something to scratch my back with, and

soon could tell there was something hard that wouldn't release.

I didn't know you could feel the bite, I must have got the Jimmy

Durante of ticks.

Don't worry about the 'good deeds' stopping, I am just following my

wife's lead on that. We have 3 dogs and 3 cats, all rescued off the

streets when no one wanted or claimed them...and have adopted out a

bunch more over the years.

And now that I stop to think back on it, I was probably my wife's

first 'rescue'...so if THAT didn't discourage her, a few ticks and

worms sure won't!

Jerry

> Well, its 3:52 am here and I was just awakened by feeling

a tick drilling

> into my shoulder blade.

[Guest guest]

It's probably no matter, but I wouldn't have used any corticosteroids

for tickbite unless there were some intolerable reaction that required

them. The normal inflammation at the bite site probably evolved partly

to help mash any varmints that might have been conveyed by the bite.

<geraldod@...> wrote:

>

> Well, its 3:52 am here and I was just awakened by feeling a tick

drilling

> into my shoulder blade. The wife got it out with tweezers, including

> the head.

>

> What a way to wake up, especially after spending years reading this

> thread and all its posts on Lyme. We rescued a little dog about a

> month ago that had ticks and now is being treated for ehrlichiosis

> with doxy. She and our other two dogs had a frontline treatment a few

> weeks ago, maybe that's why the tick jumped ship off of a dog onto me.

>

> So we dumped some rubbing alcohol on the spot, and then applied some

> of Barb's famous recipe cream (triple antibiotic, antifungal and

> corticosteroid combo). The only antibiotics I have is some ampicillin,

> so I took one 500mg pill, and will take one every 6 hours for the next

> few days but the 'experts' say the tick needs to be attached for 24

> hours or longer to transmit the lyme bugs. I suppose I could have

> 'borrowed' some of the dog's doxy, but I didn't think about it until

now.

>

> Any preventative recommendations from the Lyme experts on this list

> would be appreciated.

>

> Last year we rescued a kitten and then both of us got ringworm, lol....

> No good deed goes unpunished!! Time to go back to sleep...

>

> Jerry

>

[Guest guest]

,

We already had that 'combo cream' handy, and when I googled 'tick

bite' I came up with this from the CDC:

" The bite should be cleaned with soap and water and treated with

antihistamine or corticosteroid cream. "

Why they say that I have no idea...but like you say, it's probably no

big deal.

Jerry

>

>

> It's probably no matter, but I wouldn't have used any corticosteroids

> for tickbite unless there were some intolerable reaction that required

> them. The normal inflammation at the bite site probably evolved partly

> to help mash any varmints that might have been conveyed by the bite.

>

[Guest guest]

Jerry,

There is no rational reason or decent research to think you did NOT

get infected. It is much more likely that you got infected with

something. You should absolutely get 4 weeks of doxycycline now. If

you are infected you may not show symptoms for a few years. Never

assume that the tick was not attached long enough or that you could

prevent the infection from spreading by putting a topical cream on

the bite.

a Carnes

all family members infected - never had a tick on me for more than a

couple of hours- no clue what the ticks in South Carolina carried

>

> Well, its 3:52 am here and I was just awakened by feeling a tick

drilling

> into my shoulder blade. The wife got it out with tweezers, including

> the head.

>

> What a way to wake up, especially after spending years reading this

> thread and all its posts on Lyme. We rescued a little dog about a

> month ago that had ticks and now is being treated for ehrlichiosis

> with doxy. She and our other two dogs had a frontline treatment a

few

> weeks ago, maybe that's why the tick jumped ship off of a dog onto

me.

>

> So we dumped some rubbing alcohol on the spot, and then applied some

> of Barb's famous recipe cream (triple antibiotic, antifungal and

> corticosteroid combo). The only antibiotics I have is some

ampicillin,

> so I took one 500mg pill, and will take one every 6 hours for the

next

> few days but the 'experts' say the tick needs to be attached for 24

> hours or longer to transmit the lyme bugs. I suppose I could have

> 'borrowed' some of the dog's doxy, but I didn't think about it

until now.

>

> Any preventative recommendations from the Lyme experts on this list

> would be appreciated.

>

> Last year we rescued a kitten and then both of us got ringworm,

lol....

> No good deed goes unpunished!! Time to go back to sleep...

>

> Jerry

>

[Guest guest]

Jerry,

Please do not follow any advice from the CDC regarding tick bites.

Here is a link to LymeNet's article on what to do if you get a tick

bite.

http://www.lymenet.org/help.shtml

I can only caution you that even their suggestions are very

conservative. Let me share again that everyone in my family have had

several tick bites. None of us ever got any symptoms of illness except

me. I got a bull's eye rash but was NOT SICK AT ALL. We ALL have

borrelia and who knows what else. Three of us have been very sick with

it but didn't get sick until years after the tick bite -read that

YEARS.

If I were in your shoes I would do whatever I could to at least get a

few weeks of a safe antibiotic. Read the link and read what Burrescano

recommends. Hope this is helpful.

a Carnes

>

> ,

> We already had that 'combo cream' handy, and when I googled 'tick

> bite' I came up with this from the CDC:

>

> " The bite should be cleaned with soap and water and treated with

> antihistamine or corticosteroid cream. "

>

> Why they say that I have no idea...but like you say, it's probably no

> big deal.

>

> Jerry

[Guest guest]

I found a crazy anti-bite cream. My daughter had a nasty, itchy bite and I had the idea to apply some ancient hemorrhoid cream we had laying around, since Preparation H is obviously good at relieving inflammation and itching. It worked immediately, swelling went away and the itching never came back. I was pretty proud of myself for thinking of this, but now I'm concerned that it might be interrupting the body's natural defenses :-( (which are a pain in the butt...no pun intended). pennygeraldod <geraldod@...> wrote: ,We already had that 'combo cream' handy, and when I googled 'tickbite' I came up with this from the CDC:"The bite should be cleaned with soap and water and treated withantihistamine or corticosteroid cream."Why they say that I have no idea...but like you say, it's probably nobig deal.Jerry>> > It's probably no matter, but I wouldn't have used any corticosteroids> for tickbite unless there were some intolerable reaction that required> them. The normal inflammation at the bite site probably evolved partly> to help mash any varmints that might have been conveyed by the bite.>

[Guest guest]

This is a good point. If you treat it early enough, you've got a much better chance at beating it permanently, than if you wait...well that's the conventional wisdom anyway. Who knows? pennypjeanneus <pj7@...> wrote: Jerry,There is no rational reason or decent research to think you did NOT get infected. It is much more likely that you got infected with something. You should absolutely get 4 weeks of doxycycline now. If you are infected you may not show symptoms for a

few years. Never assume that the tick was not attached long enough or that you could prevent the infection from spreading by putting a topical cream on the bite.a Carnesall family members infected - never had a tick on me for more than a couple of hours- no clue what the ticks in South Carolina carried >> Well, its 3:52 am here and I was just awakened by feeling a tick drilling> into my shoulder blade. The wife got it out with tweezers, including> the head.> > What a way to wake up, especially after spending years reading this> thread and all its posts on Lyme. We rescued a little dog about a> month ago that had ticks and now is being treated for ehrlichiosis> with doxy. She and our other two dogs had a frontline treatment a few> weeks ago, maybe that's why the tick jumped ship off of a dog onto me.> > So we dumped some rubbing alcohol on the

spot, and then applied some> of Barb's famous recipe cream (triple antibiotic, antifungal and> corticosteroid combo). The only antibiotics I have is some ampicillin,> so I took one 500mg pill, and will take one every 6 hours for the next> few days but the 'experts' say the tick needs to be attached for 24> hours or longer to transmit the lyme bugs. I suppose I could have> 'borrowed' some of the dog's doxy, but I didn't think about it until now.> > Any preventative recommendations from the Lyme experts on this list> would be appreciated.> > Last year we rescued a kitten and then both of us got ringworm, lol....> No good deed goes unpunished!! Time to go back to sleep...> > Jerry>

[Guest guest]

Thanks a,

When I said 'no big deal' it was just in reference to the use of

cortisone cream. And when we took our new dog to the vet about 5 weeks

ago, he took great pains to show and tell us not to ever even touch

ticks with our bare fingers.

I am sticking to the amoxicillin 1g every 6 hours. Seems like I

accidentally picked one of the recommended Burrascano treatments for

my circumstance. As a matter of fact, I might have set a record by

having taken my first amoxy within 10 minutes of being bitten, lol.

On page 19 of this pdf file:

http://www.ilads.org/files/burrascano_0905.pdf

he says " anecdotally, as little as four hours of attachment can

transmit pathogens " . If the amoxy provokes a reaction within the 48 to

72 hour period that indicates possible already existing infection I

will add the other 2 types to the combo therapy. This is not the first

time a tick has got me, but it has been almost 20 years since the last

one, and back then, thanks to Dr. Goldstein we jumped all over that

with 4 months of combo therapy too. But I was not able to start until

a few days after being bitten, and that tick had been on me for a

while I assumed (working in the garden back when we lived in So Cal).

Thanks again for the Burrascano lead,

Jerry

>

> Jerry,

> Please do not follow any advice from the CDC regarding tick bites.

> Here is a link to LymeNet's article on what to do if you get a tick

> bite.

>

> http://www.lymenet.org/help.shtml

>

> I can only caution you that even their suggestions are very

> conservative. Let me share again that everyone in my family have had

> several tick bites. None of us ever got any symptoms of illness except

> me. I got a bull's eye rash but was NOT SICK AT ALL. We ALL have

> borrelia and who knows what else. Three of us have been very sick with

> it but didn't get sick until years after the tick bite -read that

> YEARS.

>

> If I were in your shoes I would do whatever I could to at least get a

> few weeks of a safe antibiotic. Read the link and read what Burrescano

> recommends. Hope this is helpful.

>

> a Carnes

>

>

> >

> > ,

> > We already had that 'combo cream' handy, and when I googled 'tick

> > bite' I came up with this from the CDC:

> >

> > " The bite should be cleaned with soap and water and treated with

> > antihistamine or corticosteroid cream. "

> >

> > Why they say that I have no idea...but like you say, it's probably no

> > big deal.

> >

> > Jerry

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, Goldstein was saying that back then? That's pretty interesting. Am I thinking of the right Godstein? The neurosomatic guy? pennygeraldod <geraldod@...> wrote: Thanks a,When I said 'no big deal' it was just in reference to the use ofcortisone cream. And when we took our new dog to the vet about 5 weeksago, he took great pains to show and tell us not to ever even touchticks with our bare fingers. I am sticking to the amoxicillin 1g every 6

hours. Seems like Iaccidentally picked one of the recommended Burrascano treatments formy circumstance. As a matter of fact, I might have set a record byhaving taken my first amoxy within 10 minutes of being bitten, lol.On page 19 of this pdf file:http://www.ilads.org/files/burrascano_0905.pdf he says "anecdotally, as little as four hours of attachment cantransmit pathogens". If the amoxy provokes a reaction within the 48 to72 hour period that indicates possible already existing infection Iwill add the other 2 types to the combo therapy. This is not the firsttime a tick has got me, but it has been almost 20 years since the lastone, and back then, thanks to Dr. Goldstein we jumped all over thatwith 4 months of combo therapy too. But I was not able to start untila few days after being bitten, and that tick had been on me for awhile I assumed

(working in the garden back when we lived in So Cal).Thanks again for the Burrascano lead,Jerry >> Jerry,> Please do not follow any advice from the CDC regarding tick bites. > Here is a link to LymeNet's article on what to do if you get a tick > bite. > > http://www.lymenet.org/help.shtml> > I can only caution you that even their suggestions are very > conservative. Let me share again that everyone in my family have had > several tick bites. None of us ever got any symptoms of illness except > me. I got a bull's eye rash but was NOT SICK AT ALL. We ALL have > borrelia and who knows what else. Three of us have been very sick with > it but

didn't get sick until years after the tick bite -read that > YEARS.> > If I were in your shoes I would do whatever I could to at least get a > few weeks of a safe antibiotic. Read the link and read what Burrescano > recommends. Hope this is helpful.> > a Carnes> > > >> > ,> > We already had that 'combo cream' handy, and when I googled 'tick> > bite' I came up with this from the CDC:> > > > "The bite should be cleaned with soap and water and treated with> > antihistamine or corticosteroid cream."> > > > Why they say that I have no idea...but like you say, it's probably no> > big deal.> > > > Jerry>

[Guest guest]

I wish you the best, Jerry. Let's hope you didn't get babesia etc.

Aren't I encouraging?

I finally got a sense of direction to deal with my strange one year

headache. I got an appointment with a neuro-opthamologist who also

has infectious disease specialty - possibly the only such in the US.

He treats a lot of Lyme cases and actually wrote an article

describing my eye damage and its relationship to Lyme.

And he accepts Medicare. So I will be seeing him in a couple of

weeks. I'll post more once I have some clues. I get my second MRI

results back tomorrow. I am not expecting any news there, but you

never know.

More later,

a

>

>

> Thanks a,

>

> When I said 'no big deal' it was just in reference to the use of

> cortisone cream. And when we took our new dog to the vet about 5

weeks

> ago, he took great pains to show and tell us not to ever even touch

> ticks with our bare fingers.

>

> I am sticking to the amoxicillin 1g every 6 hours. Seems like I

> accidentally picked one of the recommended Burrascano treatments for

> my circumstance. As a matter of fact, I might have set a record by

> having taken my first amoxy within 10 minutes of being bitten, lol.

>

> On page 19 of this pdf file:

> http://www.ilads.org/files/burrascano_0905.pdf

> he says " anecdotally, as little as four hours of attachment can

> transmit pathogens " . If the amoxy provokes a reaction within the 48

to

> 72 hour period that indicates possible already existing infection I

> will add the other 2 types to the combo therapy. This is not the

first

> time a tick has got me, but it has been almost 20 years since the

last

> one, and back then, thanks to Dr. Goldstein we jumped all over that

> with 4 months of combo therapy too. But I was not able to start

until

> a few days after being bitten, and that tick had been on me for a

> while I assumed (working in the garden back when we lived in So

Cal).

>

> Thanks again for the Burrascano lead,

> Jerry

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Jerry,

> > Please do not follow any advice from the CDC regarding tick

bites.

> > Here is a link to LymeNet's article on what to do if you get a

tick

> > bite.

> >

> > http://www.lymenet.org/help.shtml

> >

> > I can only caution you that even their suggestions are very

> > conservative. Let me share again that everyone in my family have

had

> > several tick bites. None of us ever got any symptoms of illness

except

> > me. I got a bull's eye rash but was NOT SICK AT ALL. We ALL have

> > borrelia and who knows what else. Three of us have been very sick

with

> > it but didn't get sick until years after the tick bite -read that

> > YEARS.

> >

> > If I were in your shoes I would do whatever I could to at least

get a

> > few weeks of a safe antibiotic. Read the link and read what

Burrescano

> > recommends. Hope this is helpful.

> >

> > a Carnes

[Guest guest]

> Wow, Goldstein was saying that back then? That's pretty interesting.

Am I thinking of the right Godstein? The neurosomatic guy?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, Dr. Jay Goldstein. But this was more of a case where he knew ticks

were full of pathogens, and that the testing for said pathogens would

have been a real financial hardship for us, so he came up with a combo

intended to be antibacterial, antifungal and antiparasitic.

In his younger days, before starting to concentrate on the role of the

brain in CFS he was a scary smart general MD who took interest and

pride in solving cases that the other docs could not. He would listen

to your 'story' like a detective at a murder scene, and was open to

all possibilities. And also just very curious in the science of it all

too, he always would block one complete day a week just for 'research'

- and the top of his desk and bookcase would have stacks of journals

a few feet high.

His first book was:

" Could Your Doctor Be Wrong? How to tell when your symptoms are

misdiagnosed and what to do about it. "

Here is a brief summary of how he always checked for lyme disease in

new patients:

" (CFS)/fibromyalgia...is also associated with infections, particularly

viral. Bacterial, parasitic, and especially Borrelia infections should

also be considered... "

" ...I do order titers for Lyme disease and (sometimes) toxoplasmosis.

I will treat the patient with IgG and IgM antibody to Borrelia

burgdorferi on repeat testing even when there is no history of the

typical rash and no findings of arthritis. The morbidity of the

patients I see is so great, and the risk of oral or IV antibiotics so

small, that a therapeutic trial is often justified. Sometimes it

works, other times not. The issue is further confused by the fact that

patients with unequivocal Lyme disease can still have a CFS picture

after treatment which has cured their arthritis. The common neurologic

abnormalities in Lyme disease, radiculitis, meningitis and cranial

neuritis, are not frequently seen in a CFS patient. "

That was from page 8 of this PDF link to his guidelines for CFS

diagnosis, you can see quickly how through he was in his initial exams:

http://cndsinfo.net/publications/d1-goldsteinlimbic.pdf

And remember, that article was published in the early 90's, and yet he

has predicted the general areas of current treatment recommendations,

for example in this research paper that was dismissed by most of the

other CFS doc's, he sees evidence of impaired methylation:

" A New Zealand researcher reports abnormalities in red cell morphology

in CFS that could be associated with a low sedimentation rate.

Although these findings have been called artifactual by some, one of

the defects ( " cup forms " ) often responds to vitamin B12 injections,

which also are reported to relieve symptoms. This morphologic

abnormality suggests a membrane defect which may be resolved by a

methyl group donor. "

When I first was seeing him back in '83, he said that there would not

be a 'cure' for CFS until the time that doc's could check for genetic

abnormalities and take steps to correct them.

Starting in the mid to late 90's he streamlined everything and

concentrated on providing his palliative neurosomatic treatments. Part

of this was economic and part due to his own health struggles (imo);

he almost drove his practice into bankruptcy because he would treat

you whether you could afford it or not. He ended up having a nurse do

the screening to insure that in the least the new patients would have

enough cash to cover the first appointment.

I remember it really bothered him when the Hippocratic oath was

dropped as part of the MD graduation ceremony. Most of his treatments

would only work on 5 or 10% of the cfs population, but he had over 150

different treatments to try that had helped somebody in the past. And

he would never just hand out a script for the patient to try on his

own, you always tried something new right in his office waiting

room...in case of a bad reaction, he would have another drug to

reverse the effect of the first.

Most doc's with their egos would never attempt to treat patients in

that manner, it either the one treatment thats in their 'cookbook' or

you are dismissed as the problem.

Here is a list of his published research articles, the first two are

from when he was just a psychiatrist (down toward the middle you will

see one on psychogenic polydipsia, his treatment for that pulled my

mother in law out of a month long stay in the hospital...most of it in

intensive care. We are convinced he saved her life):

Goldstein, J.A. " Rapid relief of bizarre and delusional behavior. "

Psychotherapy 10(2): 159-162, 1973.

Goldstein, J.A. " Treatment for a trip. " Emergency Medicine February

1974, p.10.

Goldstein, J.A. " Therapeutic lessons from a family practitioner. "

Therapaeia Sept. 23, 1981, pp 73-84.

Goldstein, J.A. " Unconventional drug therapy. " Audio-Digest Family

Practice March, 1982.

Goldstein, J.A. " Possible therapy for snoring. " West. J. Med. 308(26):

270, 1983. Goldstein, J.A. " Protriptyline for snoring. " New Eng. J.

Med. 308(26): 1602, 1983.

Goldstein, J.A. " Lithium and DDAVP in ADD with depression. " J. Clin.

Psychiatry 44(9): 353, 1983.

Goldstein, J.A. " Cimetidine and mononucleosis. " Ann. Int. Med. 99(3):

410-411, 1983.

Goldstein, J.A. " Clonidine as an analgesic. " Biol. Psychiatry 18(11):

1339-40, 1983.

Goldstein, J.A. " Niacin and acute pychedelic psychosis. " Biol.

Psychiatry 19(2): 272-73, 1984.

Goldstein, J.A. " Calcium and neurotransmission. " Biol. Psychiatry

19(3): 465, 1984.

Goldstein, J.A. " Nitroglycerin therapy for asthma. " Chest 85(3): 449,

1984.

Goldstein, J.A. " Alpha-2 agonists as analgesics. " J. Clin. Psychiatry

45(1): 46, 1984.

Goldstein, J.A. " Hydroxychloroquine for asthma. " Am. Rev. Resp.

Disease 128 (6): 100-101, 1983.

Goldstein, J.A. " Calcium and neurotransmission. " Biol. Psychiatry

19(3): 466, 1984.

Goldstein, J.A. " Nifedipine treatment of Tourette's Syndrome. " J.

Clin. Psychiatry 45(8):360, 1984.

Goldstein, J.A. " Topical heparin for treatment of acute second degree

burns. " Ann. Emerg. Med. 13(3): 210, 1984.

Goldstein, J.A. " Methadone for depression. " Biol. Psychiatry 19(8):

1272-73, 1984.

Goldstein, J.A. " Melatonin as a depression marker. " Biol. Psychiatry

20: 584-585, 1985.

Goldstein, J.A. " Lithium treatment of central pain. " J. Clin.

Psychiatry 46(10): 453-454, 1985.

Goldstein, J.A. " Calcium channel blockers in the treatment of panic

disorder. " J. Clin. Psychiatry 46(12):546, 1985.

Goldstein, J.A. " Captopril in the treatment of psychogenic

polydipsia. " J. Clin. Psychiatry 47(2): 99, 1986.

Goldstein, J.A. " Danazol and the rapidly cycling affective patient. "

J. Clin. Psychiatry 47(3): 153-154, 1986.

Goldstein, J.A. " Anti-inflammatory drugs and panic disorder. J. Clin.

Psychiatry 47(5): 277, 1986.

Goldstein, J.A. " Cimetidine, ranitidine, and Epstein-Barr virus

infection. " Ann. Intern. Med. 105(1): 139, 1986.

Goldstein, J.A. " Erectile function and naltrexone. " Ann. Intern. Med.

105(5): 799, 1986.

Goldstein, J.A. " Carbamazepine treatment for stuttering. " J. Clin.

Psychiatry 48(1): 39, 1987.

Goldstein, J.A. " Treatment of chronic Epstein-Barr disease with H-2

blockers. " J. Clin. Psychiatry 47(11): 572, 1986.

, J.B., Akhanjee, L.K., Cooney, M.M., Goldstein, J., Tamayoshi,

S. and Sefal-Gidan, F. " Laser therapy for pain of rheumatoid

arthritis. " Clin. J. of Pain 3: 54-59, 1987.

, J.B., Akhanjee, L.K., Cooney, M.M., Goldstein, J., Tamayoshi,

S. and Sefal-Gidan, F. " Laser therapy for pain for pain of trigeminal

neuralgia. " Clin. J. of Pain 3: 183-187, 1987.

Goldstein, J.A. " Chronic fatigue syndrome. " The Female Patient 16(1):

39- 50, 1991.

Sandman C.A., Barron J.L., Nackoul K., Goldstein J., Fidler F. " Memory

deficits associated with chronic fatigue immune dysfunction syndrome

(CFIDS). " Biol. Psychiatry 33: 618-623, 1993.

Heuser G., Mena I., Goldstein J.A., C., Alamos F. " NeuroSPECT

findings in patients exposed to neurotoxic chemicals. " Clin. Nucl.

Med. 18(10): 923, 1993.

Goldstein J.A., Mena I., Yunus M.B. " Regional cerebral blood flow by

SPECT in chronic fatigue syndrome with and without fibromyalgia

syndrome. " Arthr. Rheum. 39(9) Suppl.: 205, 1993.

Goldstein J.A., Mena I., Jouanne E., Lesser I. " The assessment of

vascular abnormalities in late-life chronic fatigue syndrome by brain

SPECT; comparison with late-life major depressive disorder. " J. Chr.

Fatigue Syndrome, 1(1): 58-81, 1995.

Goldstein J.A. " Could low levels of cerebrospinal fluid endothelin

explain the vasoconstrictive response to nimodipine seen in pre- and

post- treatment brain SPECT of CFS/FMS patients? " Journal of

Musculoskeletal Pain. 3 Suppl 1: 14, 1995.

Goldstein J.A., Sandman C, Hetrick W, van der Wal E. " Decreased event-

related potential N-100: A possible neurologic marker for CFS

impairment. " Journal of Musculoskeletal Pain. 3 Suppl 1: 115, 1995.

Goldstein, Jay. " Treatment Protocol for Physicians. " The National

Forum. Volume 1, Number 3, Winter 1998

Goldstein, Jay. " The Pilgrim's Progress. " The National Forum. Volume

1, Number 4, Spring 1998.

> > > Jerry

> >

>

[Guest guest]

And good luck to you, a.

Finding a dual-specialist with Lyme experience is a job well done!

Let us know how it turns out. My wife was having recurring headaches

but when we switched from a generic back to name brand on her medicine

they went away. The pharma companies are getting away with murder on

generics in terms of potency, cross contamination and fillers.

Hope you can find a simple, effective solution too...one year is about

one year too long for a headache!

Jerry

> > >

> > > Jerry,

> > > Please do not follow any advice from the CDC regarding tick

> bites.

> > > Here is a link to LymeNet's article on what to do if you get a

> tick

> > > bite.

> > >

> > > http://www.lymenet.org/help.shtml

> > >

> > > I can only caution you that even their suggestions are very

> > > conservative. Let me share again that everyone in my family have

> had

> > > several tick bites. None of us ever got any symptoms of illness

> except

> > > me. I got a bull's eye rash but was NOT SICK AT ALL. We ALL have

> > > borrelia and who knows what else. Three of us have been very sick

> with

> > > it but didn't get sick until years after the tick bite -read that

> > > YEARS.

> > >

> > > If I were in your shoes I would do whatever I could to at least

> get a

> > > few weeks of a safe antibiotic. Read the link and read what

> Burrescano

> > > recommends. Hope this is helpful.

> > >

> > > a Carnes

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I remember when I first started researching this whole thing, he was one of the few "cfs experts" who really impressed me, especially his dedication. I'm sorry I never saw him, but by that time, he was mainly focusing on the brain chemistry thing, which I eventually surmised probably wasn't going to be the answer I needed. pennygeraldod <geraldod@...> wrote: > Wow, Goldstein was saying that back then? That's pretty interesting.Am I thinking of the right Godstein?

The neurosomatic guy?----------------------------------------------------------Yes, Dr. Jay Goldstein. But this was more of a case where he knew tickswere full of pathogens, and that the testing for said pathogens wouldhave been a real financial hardship for us, so he came up with a combointended to be antibacterial, antifungal and antiparasitic.In his younger days, before starting to concentrate on the role of thebrain in CFS he was a scary smart general MD who took interest andpride in solving cases that the other docs could not. He would listento your 'story' like a detective at a murder scene, and was open toall possibilities. And also just very curious in the science of it alltoo, he always would block one complete day a week just for 'research'- and the top of his desk and bookcase would have stacks of journalsa few feet high.His first book was:"Could Your Doctor

Be Wrong? How to tell when your symptoms aremisdiagnosed and what to do about it."Here is a brief summary of how he always checked for lyme disease innew patients:"(CFS)/fibromyalgia...is also associated with infections, particularlyviral. Bacterial, parasitic, and especially Borrelia infections shouldalso be considered...""...I do order titers for Lyme disease and (sometimes) toxoplasmosis.I will treat the patient with IgG and IgM antibody to Borreliaburgdorferi on repeat testing even when there is no history of thetypical rash and no findings of arthritis. The morbidity of thepatients I see is so great, and the risk of oral or IV antibiotics sosmall, that a therapeutic trial is often justified. Sometimes itworks, other times not. The issue is further confused by the fact thatpatients with unequivocal Lyme disease can still have a CFS pictureafter treatment which has cured their arthritis. The

common neurologicabnormalities in Lyme disease, radiculitis, meningitis and cranialneuritis, are not frequently seen in a CFS patient."That was from page 8 of this PDF link to his guidelines for CFSdiagnosis, you can see quickly how through he was in his initial exams:http://cndsinfo.net/publications/d1-goldsteinlimbic.pdfAnd remember, that article was published in the early 90's, and yet hehas predicted the general areas of current treatment recommendations,for example in this research paper that was dismissed by most of theother CFS doc's, he sees evidence of impaired methylation:"A New Zealand researcher reports abnormalities in red cell morphologyin CFS that could be associated with a low sedimentation rate.Although these findings have been called artifactual by some, one ofthe defects ("cup forms") often responds to

vitamin B12 injections,which also are reported to relieve symptoms. This morphologicabnormality suggests a membrane defect which may be resolved by amethyl group donor."When I first was seeing him back in '83, he said that there would notbe a 'cure' for CFS until the time that doc's could check for geneticabnormalities and take steps to correct them. Starting in the mid to late 90's he streamlined everything andconcentrated on providing his palliative neurosomatic treatments. Partof this was economic and part due to his own health struggles (imo);he almost drove his practice into bankruptcy because he would treatyou whether you could afford it or not. He ended up having a nurse dothe screening to insure that in the least the new patients would haveenough cash to cover the first appointment.I remember it really bothered him when the Hippocratic oath wasdropped as part of the MD graduation ceremony. Most

of his treatmentswould only work on 5 or 10% of the cfs population, but he had over 150different treatments to try that had helped somebody in the past. Andhe would never just hand out a script for the patient to try on hisown, you always tried something new right in his office waitingroom...in case of a bad reaction, he would have another drug toreverse the effect of the first.Most doc's with their egos would never attempt to treat patients inthat manner, it either the one treatment thats in their 'cookbook' oryou are dismissed as the problem. Here is a list of his published research articles, the first two arefrom when he was just a psychiatrist (down toward the middle you willsee one on psychogenic polydipsia, his treatment for that pulled mymother in law out of a month long stay in the hospital...most of it inintensive care. We are convinced he saved her life):Goldstein, J.A. "Rapid relief of

bizarre and delusional behavior."Psychotherapy 10(2): 159-162, 1973.Goldstein, J.A. "Treatment for a trip." Emergency Medicine February1974, p.10.Goldstein, J.A. "Therapeutic lessons from a family practitioner."Therapaeia Sept. 23, 1981, pp 73-84.Goldstein, J.A. "Unconventional drug therapy." Audio-Digest FamilyPractice March, 1982.Goldstein, J.A. "Possible therapy for snoring." West. J. Med. 308(26):270, 1983. Goldstein, J.A. "Protriptyline for snoring." New Eng. J.Med. 308(26): 1602, 1983.Goldstein, J.A. "Lithium and DDAVP in ADD with depression." J. Clin.Psychiatry 44(9): 353, 1983.Goldstein, J.A. "Cimetidine and mononucleosis." Ann. Int. Med. 99(3):410-411, 1983.Goldstein, J.A. "Clonidine as an analgesic." Biol. Psychiatry 18(11):1339-40, 1983.Goldstein, J.A. "Niacin and acute pychedelic psychosis." Biol.Psychiatry 19(2): 272-73, 1984.Goldstein,

J.A. "Calcium and neurotransmission." Biol. Psychiatry19(3): 465, 1984.Goldstein, J.A. "Nitroglycerin therapy for asthma." Chest 85(3): 449,1984.Goldstein, J.A. "Alpha-2 agonists as analgesics." J. Clin. Psychiatry45(1): 46, 1984.Goldstein, J.A. "Hydroxychloroquine for asthma." Am. Rev. Resp.Disease 128 (6): 100-101, 1983.Goldstein, J.A. "Calcium and neurotransmission." Biol. Psychiatry19(3): 466, 1984.Goldstein, J.A. "Nifedipine treatment of Tourette's Syndrome." J.Clin. Psychiatry 45(8):360, 1984.Goldstein, J.A. "Topical heparin for treatment of acute second degreeburns." Ann. Emerg. Med. 13(3): 210, 1984.Goldstein, J.A. "Methadone for depression." Biol. Psychiatry 19(8):1272-73, 1984.Goldstein, J.A. "Melatonin as a depression marker." Biol. Psychiatry20: 584-585, 1985.Goldstein, J.A. "Lithium treatment of central pain." J. Clin.Psychiatry 46(10):

453-454, 1985.Goldstein, J.A. "Calcium channel blockers in the treatment of panicdisorder." J. Clin. Psychiatry 46(12):546, 1985.Goldstein, J.A. "Captopril in the treatment of psychogenicpolydipsia." J. Clin. Psychiatry 47(2): 99, 1986.Goldstein, J.A. "Danazol and the rapidly cycling affective patient."J. Clin. Psychiatry 47(3): 153-154, 1986.Goldstein, J.A. "Anti-inflammatory drugs and panic disorder. J. Clin.Psychiatry 47(5): 277, 1986.Goldstein, J.A. "Cimetidine, ranitidine, and Epstein-Barr virusinfection." Ann. Intern. Med. 105(1): 139, 1986.Goldstein, J.A. "Erectile function and naltrexone." Ann. Intern. Med.105(5): 799, 1986.Goldstein, J.A. "Carbamazepine treatment for stuttering." J. Clin.Psychiatry 48(1): 39, 1987.Goldstein, J.A. "Treatment of chronic Epstein-Barr disease with H-2blockers." J. Clin. Psychiatry 47(11): 572, 1986., J.B., Akhanjee, L.K.,

Cooney, M.M., Goldstein, J., Tamayoshi,S. and Sefal-Gidan, F. "Laser therapy for pain of rheumatoidarthritis." Clin. J. of Pain 3: 54-59, 1987., J.B., Akhanjee, L.K., Cooney, M.M., Goldstein, J., Tamayoshi,S. and Sefal-Gidan, F. "Laser therapy for pain for pain of trigeminalneuralgia." Clin. J. of Pain 3: 183-187, 1987.Goldstein, J.A. "Chronic fatigue syndrome." The Female Patient 16(1):39- 50, 1991.Sandman C.A., Barron J.L., Nackoul K., Goldstein J., Fidler F. "Memorydeficits associated with chronic fatigue immune dysfunction syndrome(CFIDS)." Biol. Psychiatry 33: 618-623, 1993.Heuser G., Mena I., Goldstein J.A., C., Alamos F. "NeuroSPECTfindings in patients exposed to neurotoxic chemicals." Clin. Nucl.Med. 18(10): 923, 1993.Goldstein J.A., Mena I., Yunus M.B. "Regional cerebral blood flow bySPECT in chronic fatigue syndrome with and without fibromyalgiasyndrome." Arthr.

Rheum. 39(9) Suppl.: 205, 1993.Goldstein J.A., Mena I., Jouanne E., Lesser I. "The assessment ofvascular abnormalities in late-life chronic fatigue syndrome by brainSPECT; comparison with late-life major depressive disorder." J. Chr.Fatigue Syndrome, 1(1): 58-81, 1995.Goldstein J.A. "Could low levels of cerebrospinal fluid endothelinexplain the vasoconstrictive response to nimodipine seen in pre- andpost- treatment brain SPECT of CFS/FMS patients?" Journal ofMusculoskeletal Pain. 3 Suppl 1: 14, 1995.Goldstein J.A., Sandman C, Hetrick W, van der Wal E. "Decreased event-related potential N-100: A possible neurologic marker for CFSimpairment." Journal of Musculoskeletal Pain. 3 Suppl 1: 115, 1995.Goldstein, Jay. "Treatment Protocol for Physicians." The NationalForum. Volume 1, Number 3, Winter 1998Goldstein, Jay. "The Pilgrim's Progress." The National Forum. Volume1, Number 4, Spring

1998.> > > Jerry> >>