Re: Balanced Immunity: (No colds, flu... Penny)

[Guest guest]

--- In infections , Penny Houle <pennyhoule@...>

wrote:

>

> Matt, this is such a good point. If my immune system is so weak, why is it

that after

getting full blown CFS, I didn't have a single cold or flu for over 7 years?

I'm the same way Penny, as are the majority of CFS patients -- (not all

however). I had a

bad cold earlier this year -- raised temp, runny, runny nose -- and it dawned on

me that I

hadn't bought kleenex in probably 6-7 years!

BUT, it's my understanding that we don't get colds, etc., or more importantly we

don't

show the SYMPTOMS of getting a cold, precisely because our immune systems are

imbalanced or " dysfunctional " -- i.e, shifted from the TH1 side (cellular

Immunity) to TH2

(humoral immunity).

Runny noses, fevers, diarrhea, etc., are the bodies natural way of trying to

fight off and

clear an infection. These are seen as symptoms of the cold, when really,

they're symptoms

of our immune systems reaction to the cold virus (just as an example.)

Because our cellular immunity is basically on hold, we never get these natural

immune

reactions that most others do.

From the link below: " Th2 operates by making antibodies, which attach to normal

bacteria

and other pathogens that are outside human cells, so that they can be marked for

killing

by cells specialized for this job. Both are needed, but in CFS, the Th1 response

is missing. "

http://www.immunesupport.com/Library/showarticle.cfm/ID/4912/HealthWatch/

HealthWatch-Treatment-Guide-2003

That I think, is why we don't get colds, etc.. Not because our immune systems

are so

strong, but because they're imbalanced.

Again, just my two cents,

Dan

[Guest guest]

Since inflammation is one of the big immune system responses, and we pwc suffer so many inflammatory symptoms, how do you explain the apparent contradiction in that? If anything, our immune systems are over active. The inflammatory cycle becomes self perpetuating creating more inflammation, etc. Yes, we may have imbalanced immune systems but it's not because they're too weak. It's because they're working too hard. Which makes a lot of sense if you believe that many of our so called "autoimmune" illnesses are not autoimmune at all but are actually the body's response to pathogens, not self directed attacks with no purpose at all. To me, it's crazy that this hypothesis has been accepted as truth when it's almost ludicrous when applied to such a large number of people. But what was it that Hitler said? "Tell a big enough lie and tell it enough times, and people will accept it as the truth."

(paraphrased). AIDS patients obviously have an impaired immune system to the point of dying from easily acquired pneumonia. Other rare people have immune system disorders which forces them to avoid every kind of potential contagion. But I'd really like to see some actual evidence that we pwc are also suffering from impaired (in particular underactive) immune systems. Personally, I think that someone thought it made a good hypothesis at some point when they couldn't figure anything else out. They could see all the symptoms of an immune/inflammatory response, but couldn't identify the pathogen, so they started developing the screwed up immune system theory and develop more theories and run studies to substantiate the hypothesis. We've learned a lot but no one has really proved that we have impaired immune systems at all. Yes, we've got issues with

our immune systems. When bodies are trapped in an inflammatory cycle as long as ours are, there is going to be all kinds of repercussions and residual damage. But to say that the solution lies in making the immune system STRONGER, rather than addressing the pathogens that are activating it, and the inflammatory damage that results is, I believe, a big misdirection. pennykdrbrill <kdrbrill@...> wrote: >> Matt, this is such a good point. If my immune system is so weak, why is it that after getting full blown CFS, I didn't have a single cold or flu for over 7 years? I'm the same way Penny, as are the majority of CFS patients -- (not all however). I had a bad cold earlier this year -- raised temp, runny, runny nose -- and it dawned on me that I hadn't bought kleenex in probably 6-7 years! :)BUT, it's my understanding that we don't get colds, etc., or more importantly we don't show the SYMPTOMS of getting a cold, precisely because our immune systems are imbalanced or "dysfunctional" -- i.e, shifted from the TH1 side (cellular Immunity) to TH2(humoral immunity).Runny noses, fevers, diarrhea, etc., are the bodies natural way of trying to fight off and

clear an infection. These are seen as symptoms of the cold, when really, they're symptoms of our immune systems reaction to the cold virus (just as an example.)Because our cellular immunity is basically on hold, we never get these natural immune reactions that most others do.From the link below: "Th2 operates by making antibodies, which attach to normal bacteria and other pathogens that are outside human cells, so that they can be marked for killing by cells specialized for this job. Both are needed, but in CFS, the Th1 response is missing."http://www.immunesupport.com/Library/showarticle.cfm/ID/4912/HealthWatch/HealthWatch-Treatment-Guide-2003 That I think, is why we don't get colds, etc.. Not because our immune systems are so strong, but because they're imbalanced.Again, just my two

cents,Dan

[Guest guest]

Well, I'm not a scientist like Dr. Klimas who found the TH1 side to be so low

with PWC's.

But there is th2 inflammatory responses and th1, and again, I think that

BALANCING the

immune response is a piece of the puzzle.

They may overactive andn be working too hard to the point that in the end, one

side

becomes depleted or exhausted. Or like the Pall protocol, and as you

mention, this

inflammatory merry-go-round sets up some sort of vicious cycle. I don't know...

I TOTALLY agree that most so-called " autoimmune " diseases are in fact not

autoimmune.

The viruses, bacteria, etc., are hiding within cells which the immune system is

trying to

attack......

And I'm not saying to NOT address the pathenogens -- but do both. Work on the

immune

dysfunction and the bugs...

The " Simplified " Yasko-type approach seems to be helping a lot of folks as

evidenced on

immunesupport.com and the -group Yasko_CFS.

d.

> >

> > Matt, this is such a good point. If my immune system is so weak, why is it

that after

> getting full blown CFS, I didn't have a single cold or flu for over 7 years?

>

> I'm the same way Penny, as are the majority of CFS patients -- (not all

however). I had a

> bad cold earlier this year -- raised temp, runny, runny nose -- and it dawned

on me

that I

> hadn't bought kleenex in probably 6-7 years!

>

> BUT, it's my understanding that we don't get colds, etc., or more importantly

we don't

> show the SYMPTOMS of getting a cold, precisely because our immune systems are

> imbalanced or " dysfunctional " -- i.e, shifted from the TH1 side (cellular

Immunity) to

TH2

> (humoral immunity).

>

> Runny noses, fevers, diarrhea, etc., are the bodies natural way of trying to

fight off and

> clear an infection. These are seen as symptoms of the cold, when really,

they're

symptoms

> of our immune systems reaction to the cold virus (just as an example.)

>

> Because our cellular immunity is basically on hold, we never get these natural

immune

> reactions that most others do.

>

> From the link below: " Th2 operates by making antibodies, which attach to

normal

bacteria

> and other pathogens that are outside human cells, so that they can be marked

for killing

> by cells specialized for this job. Both are needed, but in CFS, the Th1

response is

missing. "

>

> http://www.immunesupport.com/Library/showarticle.cfm/ID/4912/HealthWatch/

> HealthWatch-Treatment-Guide-2003

>

> That I think, is why we don't get colds, etc.. Not because our immune systems

are so

> strong, but because they're imbalanced.

>

> Again, just my two cents,

>

> Dan

>