Re: Thin skins...and triphala...

[Guest guest]

The chinese doctor at the (almost) free acupuncture clinic said that CFS and

other chronic

illnesses eventually may result in " deficiencies " , which to them can mean

deficient qi

(energy), deficient blood, liver deficiency, etc.. I was told I'm definitely

deficient, which

makes sense -- I'm 6'2 " and 155 lbs.

In this specific situation, I would add deficient collagen?

Sorry I didn't hear about the thin-skin thing earlier. Perhaps it will be

beneficial even if

you dilute it to .5%?

I see no reason why the Triphala won't help, and maybe even eliminate the pseudo

infection, since one of the ingredients in Triphala was shown to do so.

Yes, it was in vitro, but I've seen no reports that the young med student tried

it on her CF

friend, only to find it didn't work at all... ?

I feel encouraged too, even though today my FS is quite painful. I think it's

due to those

molasses (mold anyone) cookies I had yesterday...?

d.

--- In infections , Penny Houle <pennyhoule@...>

wrote:

>

> That's a scary thought. My skin has suddenly gotten thin as well. I now cut

very easily

and the cuts take a long time to heal and the scars last on. I also have become

photosensitive, probably due to the long term use of the penicillin.

>

> But I'll give it a try and see what happens and report back. Maybe in fact

it will act like

a chemical peel and remove the brown patches on my arms?

>

> Anyway, I just bought some Triphalia in tablet form, and I'm happy because

it contains

both the bellica and the other, so all my microbes should be covered. I've used

it for a

couple of days and so far so good. My sinuses feel better, but I have to wait to

see if it's

coincidence, placebo or for real. I'll let you know when I feel more certain

about it. But I

am encouraged.

>

> penny

>

[Guest guest]

Dan, I'm feeling very encouraged by the Triphalia. Thanks so much for telling us about its antimicrobial properties. I'm definitely noticing improvement in my sinuses with far less mucous in the back of my throat, especially upon waking. What is there, is not so thick and gluey. And no morning headaches! Much less pain in my ankles upon arising too. I've been taking about 4,000 mg, I think. I'm going to increase it to 6,000, but was afraid to start out that high, because all of the Triphalia bottles seem to indicate it's primarily used for colon cleansing. I was afraid I'd get severe diarrhea if I took too much, but it hasn't happened. I'm also going to research giving myself that nasal rinse with it. I don't care if my sinuses get stained. :-) While I'm happy to be waking up with a head feeling less

pressurized, I was horrified to hear myself doing this strange snoring this a.m. I've never experienced that before. I couldn't duplicate the sound if my life depended on it. It was coming from far back inside my nose/head somewhere. Strange sound, strange feeling. I have no idea why this occurred, but it's definitely a new development. penny kdrbrill <kdrbrill@...> wrote: The chinese doctor at the (almost) free acupuncture clinic said

that CFS and other chronic illnesses eventually may result in "deficiencies", which to them can mean deficient qi (energy), deficient blood, liver deficiency, etc.. I was told I'm definitely deficient, which makes sense -- I'm 6'2" and 155 lbs.In this specific situation, I would add deficient collagen?Sorry I didn't hear about the thin-skin thing earlier. Perhaps it will be beneficial even if you dilute it to .5%? I see no reason why the Triphala won't help, and maybe even eliminate the pseudo infection, since one of the ingredients in Triphala was shown to do so. Yes, it was in vitro, but I've seen no reports that the young med student tried it on her CF friend, only to find it didn't work at all... ?I feel encouraged too, even though today my FS is quite painful. I think it's due to those molasses (mold anyone) cookies I had yesterday...? :)d.>> That's a scary thought. My skin has suddenly gotten thin as well. I now cut very easily and the cuts take a long time to heal and the scars last on. I also have become photosensitive, probably due to the long term use of the penicillin.> > But I'll give it a try and see what happens and report back. Maybe in fact it will act like a chemical peel and remove the brown patches on my arms? > > Anyway, I just bought some Triphalia in tablet form, and I'm happy because it contains both the bellica and the other, so all my microbes should be covered. I've used it for a couple of days and so far so good. My sinuses feel better, but I have to wait to see if it's coincidence, placebo or for real. I'll let you know when I feel more certain about it. But

I am encouraged.> > penny>

[Guest guest]

Dan

your statement is childish. If you could get rid of pseudonomas with

chinese medicine or whatever your touting, not us, but the

pseudomonas cystic fibrosis sufferers whom are often on lung

transplanrt lists would have nailed this down along time

earlier.These magnificent claims are such a long shot when your

really playing with bugs. I was possably the first to mention on a

previous list that the biophosphanates are antibacterial and nothing

likes to grpow near them.It's cool that someone actually explained

the mechanism- I just new that multidrug resistant pseudo didn't like

the biophosphanate..Most of the other stuff that's been claimed

antibacterioal is possably a blood thinner or a communication cycle

buster and eradicating long term entrenched infections is a totally

different ball game, especially when the long term inflammation has

damaged parts of the body.

> >

> > That's a scary thought. My skin has suddenly gotten thin as well.

I now cut very easily

> and the cuts take a long time to heal and the scars last on. I also

have become

> photosensitive, probably due to the long term use of the penicillin.

> >

> > But I'll give it a try and see what happens and report back.

Maybe in fact it will act like

> a chemical peel and remove the brown patches on my arms?

> >

> > Anyway, I just bought some Triphalia in tablet form, and I'm

happy because it contains

> both the bellica and the other, so all my microbes should be

covered. I've used it for a

> couple of days and so far so good. My sinuses feel better, but I

have to wait to see if it's

> coincidence, placebo or for real. I'll let you know when I feel

more certain about it. But I

> am encouraged.

> >

> > penny

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well, the bugs have bounced back in a big way today. Either my

repireve was coincidental, or they simply adapted as they almost

always do. I have drainage in my throat and a headache going on this

morning plus a migraine last night. But I'll stick with it and see if

the Triphalia is able to fight back or not. And I haven't put it up

my nose yet, so we'll see what happens with that as well.

Looking forward to the gallium arriving though.

penny

> >

> > That's a scary thought. My skin has suddenly gotten thin as well.

I now cut very easily

> and the cuts take a long time to heal and the scars last on. I also

have become

> photosensitive, probably due to the long term use of the penicillin.

> >

> > But I'll give it a try and see what happens and report back.

Maybe in fact it will act like

> a chemical peel and remove the brown patches on my arms?

> >

> > Anyway, I just bought some Triphalia in tablet form, and I'm

happy because it contains

> both the bellica and the other, so all my microbes should be

covered. I've used it for a

> couple of days and so far so good. My sinuses feel better, but I

have to wait to see if it's

> coincidence, placebo or for real. I'll let you know when I feel

more certain about it. But I

> am encouraged.

> >

> > penny

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Penny

isn't gallium something used in bone scans?

tony

> > >

> > > That's a scary thought. My skin has suddenly gotten thin as

well.

> I now cut very easily

> > and the cuts take a long time to heal and the scars last on. I

also

> have become

> > photosensitive, probably due to the long term use of the

penicillin.

> > >

> > > But I'll give it a try and see what happens and report back.

> Maybe in fact it will act like

> > a chemical peel and remove the brown patches on my arms?

> > >

> > > Anyway, I just bought some Triphalia in tablet form, and I'm

> happy because it contains

> > both the bellica and the other, so all my microbes should be

> covered. I've used it for a

> > couple of days and so far so good. My sinuses feel better, but I

> have to wait to see if it's

> > coincidence, placebo or for real. I'll let you know when I feel

> more certain about it. But I

> > am encouraged.

> > >

> > > penny

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I'm not a doctor, but for one thing, this young med student just

discovered it's

actions against pseudos in January...and it takes for-ever for news to spread,

especially

with the anti-herbal bias so prevalent in todays culture.

I'm not saying it will be the cure-all, but that it certainly shouldn't be shot

down because

one isn't educated about it. Ayurvedic and also TCM has been around a hell of a

lot longer

than the pharmaceutical companies...

> > >

> > > That's a scary thought. My skin has suddenly gotten thin as well.

> I now cut very easily

> > and the cuts take a long time to heal and the scars last on. I also

> have become

> > photosensitive, probably due to the long term use of the penicillin.

> > >

> > > But I'll give it a try and see what happens and report back.

> Maybe in fact it will act like

> > a chemical peel and remove the brown patches on my arms?

> > >

> > > Anyway, I just bought some Triphalia in tablet form, and I'm

> happy because it contains

> > both the bellica and the other, so all my microbes should be

> covered. I've used it for a

> > couple of days and so far so good. My sinuses feel better, but I

> have to wait to see if it's

> > coincidence, placebo or for real. I'll let you know when I feel

> more certain about it. But I

> > am encouraged.

> > >

> > > penny

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My experience so far has been " good " days and " worse " days...just like with any

other

treatment. SO MANY OTHER FACTORS influence our illnesses, our symptoms...that

it's

always hard to tell what is causing what...

Some might call it a herx? Those doing the " Simplified Protocol " by Rich Van

Konyenburg

(sp) or the more in-depth Yasko protocol, and feeling a lot more pain before

they're

improving...and a lot of them seem to be doing remarkably better, by restoring

their

methylation blocks on these protocols...

d.

> > >

> > > That's a scary thought. My skin has suddenly gotten thin as well.

> I now cut very easily

> > and the cuts take a long time to heal and the scars last on. I also

> have become

> > photosensitive, probably due to the long term use of the penicillin.

> > >

> > > But I'll give it a try and see what happens and report back.

> Maybe in fact it will act like

> > a chemical peel and remove the brown patches on my arms?

> > >

> > > Anyway, I just bought some Triphalia in tablet form, and I'm

> happy because it contains

> > both the bellica and the other, so all my microbes should be

> covered. I've used it for a

> > couple of days and so far so good. My sinuses feel better, but I

> have to wait to see if it's

> > coincidence, placebo or for real. I'll let you know when I feel

> more certain about it. But I

> > am encouraged.

> > >

> > > penny

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, it's used in some kind of scans because it gathers in inflamed areas and lights up when some kind of special camera is used. It's lucky for us that it's attracted to the inflamed areas. Apparently, microorganisms mistake it for iron, which as you know, they need. But when they attempt to absorb the gallium it disintegrates them (greedy little suckers deserve it :-). Also, apparently, it does the same thing to the biofilms, so I've really got my fingers crossed for all of us. Geez, if nothing else, if this doesn't show people that there's a link between inflammation & infection, I don't know what will. penny dumbaussie2000 <dumbaussie2000@...> wrote: Pennyisn't gallium something used in bone scans?tony> > >> > > That's a scary thought. My skin has suddenly gotten thin as well. > I now cut very easily > > and the cuts take a long time to heal and the scars last on. I also > have become > > photosensitive, probably due to the long term use of the penicillin.> > > > > > But I'll give it a try and see what happens and report back. > Maybe in fact it will act like > > a chemical peel and remove the brown patches on my arms?

> > > > > > Anyway, I just bought some Triphalia in tablet form, and I'm > happy because it contains > > both the bellica and the other, so all my microbes should be > covered. I've used it for a > > couple of days and so far so good. My sinuses feel better, but I > have to wait to see if it's > > coincidence, placebo or for real. I'll let you know when I feel > more certain about it. But I > > am encouraged.> > > > > > penny> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Don't pay attention to Tony. He'll be singing the same tune even after China's taken over the world. :-) penny kdrbrill <kdrbrill@...> wrote: Well, I'm not a doctor, but for one thing, this young med student just discovered it's actions against pseudos in January...and it takes for-ever for news to spread, especially with the anti-herbal bias so prevalent in todays culture.I'm not saying it will be the cure-all, but that it certainly shouldn't be

shot down because one isn't educated about it. Ayurvedic and also TCM has been around a hell of a lot longer than the pharmaceutical companies...> > >> > > That's a scary thought. My skin has suddenly gotten thin as well. > I now cut very easily > > and the cuts take a long time to heal and the scars last on. I also > have become > > photosensitive, probably due to the long term use of the penicillin.> > > > > > But I'll give it a try and see what happens and report back. > Maybe in fact it will act like > > a chemical peel and remove the brown patches on my arms? > > > > > > Anyway, I just bought some Triphalia in tablet form, and I'm > happy because it contains > > both the bellica and the other, so all my microbes should be > covered. I've used it for a > > couple of days

and so far so good. My sinuses feel better, but I > have to wait to see if it's > > coincidence, placebo or for real. I'll let you know when I feel > more certain about it. But I > > am encouraged.> > > > > > penny> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

"Herx" is a bad word in my book. I WISH I could kill enough bugs all at once to experience a true herx. :-) But you're right, it's an ebb and flow. I'm certainly not giving up on it yet. While I've got a lot more mucous going on today, at least it seems to be moving and not sticking like glue in my throat. Plus, the Triphalia seems to be really good for my digestion. Very gentle but effective. penny kdrbrill <kdrbrill@...> wrote: My

experience so far has been "good" days and "worse" days...just like with any other treatment. SO MANY OTHER FACTORS influence our illnesses, our symptoms...that it's always hard to tell what is causing what... :)Some might call it a herx? Those doing the "Simplified Protocol" by Rich Van Konyenburg (sp) or the more in-depth Yasko protocol, and feeling a lot more pain before they're improving...and a lot of them seem to be doing remarkably better, by restoring their methylation blocks on these protocols...d.> > >> > > That's a scary thought. My skin has suddenly gotten thin as well. > I now cut very easily > > and the cuts take a long time to heal and the scars last on. I also > have become > > photosensitive, probably due to the long term use of the penicillin.> > > > > > But I'll give it a try and see what happens and

report back. > Maybe in fact it will act like > > a chemical peel and remove the brown patches on my arms? > > > > > > Anyway, I just bought some Triphalia in tablet form, and I'm > happy because it contains > > both the bellica and the other, so all my microbes should be > covered. I've used it for a > > couple of days and so far so good. My sinuses feel better, but I > have to wait to see if it's > > coincidence, placebo or for real. I'll let you know when I feel > more certain about it. But I > > am encouraged.> > > > > > penny> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dan

These organisms count in the billions if not trillions and people

should have them MONITORED. It's no good having a diagnosis of a

pseudonomas infection and hearing that some herbs and spices will

eradicate it and it's gone- when if you sent me a sample I could

still find you'll grow 900 colonies.This is why I get frustrated. The

organism may be responsable for destroying your lungs as is the case

in cystic fibrosis, most loose lung function and die in there 30's or

are given transplants that give them an extra 5..

So I would believe by doing things like your claiming that you can

aid yourself if you have a pseudonomas infection- eradication would

be in the vicinity of minimul 2 years of multiple antibiotic therapy,

similar if not more intense than TB treatments.This is science that I

would witness frequently. The wives tales keep people stuck and ill

for a long time unfortunately. Pseudonomas is almost always mistaken

for thrush in the CFS community.

tony

> > > >

> > > > That's a scary thought. My skin has suddenly gotten thin as

well.

> > I now cut very easily

> > > and the cuts take a long time to heal and the scars last on. I

also

> > have become

> > > photosensitive, probably due to the long term use of the

penicillin.

> > > >

> > > > But I'll give it a try and see what happens and report

back.

> > Maybe in fact it will act like

> > > a chemical peel and remove the brown patches on my arms?

> > > >

> > > > Anyway, I just bought some Triphalia in tablet form, and

I'm

> > happy because it contains

> > > both the bellica and the other, so all my microbes should be

> > covered. I've used it for a

> > > couple of days and so far so good. My sinuses feel better, but

I

> > have to wait to see if it's

> > > coincidence, placebo or for real. I'll let you know when I feel

> > more certain about it. But I

> > > am encouraged.

> > > >

> > > > penny

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dan

I'm very athletic and truly believe in the methylation block. But I

tend to see the other picture- that the toxins have caused melt down

in the small circulation similar in nature to blood vessel bursting

in an infection with menigococci.So I'm finding getting things

flowing and constantly feeling my veins peeling away from area's

suffering long term inflamation is more involved than taking a pill.

You need to acknowledge alot more than is being acknowledged to

undertake a succesfull treatment regime... I think that's why they

have physio's to get things going in area's of people's anatomies

that are blocked.Having low blood volume is a classic example of

something needing attention to get the methylation cycle working

better...

tony

> > > >

> > > > That's a scary thought. My skin has suddenly gotten thin as

well.

> > I now cut very easily

> > > and the cuts take a long time to heal and the scars last on. I

also

> > have become

> > > photosensitive, probably due to the long term use of the

penicillin.

> > > >

> > > > But I'll give it a try and see what happens and report back.

> > Maybe in fact it will act like

> > > a chemical peel and remove the brown patches on my arms?

> > > >

> > > > Anyway, I just bought some Triphalia in tablet form, and I'm

> > happy because it contains

> > > both the bellica and the other, so all my microbes should be

> > covered. I've used it for a

> > > couple of days and so far so good. My sinuses feel better, but

I

> > have to wait to see if it's

> > > coincidence, placebo or for real. I'll let you know when I feel

> > more certain about it. But I

> > > am encouraged.

> > > >

> > > > penny

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Penny

When I was violently ill i had a few different substances injected

for screening purposes and they certainly did help- and more

importantly had an influence on the disease process- from feeling

like death warmed up, to almost normal , albeit only short.Basically

we need to have a few repetoires to come together to make an impact

on a badly DISEASED BODY.

> > > >

> > > > That's a scary thought. My skin has suddenly gotten thin as

> well.

> > I now cut very easily

> > > and the cuts take a long time to heal and the scars last on. I

> also

> > have become

> > > photosensitive, probably due to the long term use of the

> penicillin.

> > > >

> > > > But I'll give it a try and see what happens and report back.

> > Maybe in fact it will act like

> > > a chemical peel and remove the brown patches on my arms?

> > > >

> > > > Anyway, I just bought some Triphalia in tablet form, and I'm

> > happy because it contains

> > > both the bellica and the other, so all my microbes should be

> > covered. I've used it for a

> > > couple of days and so far so good. My sinuses feel better, but

I

> > have to wait to see if it's

> > > coincidence, placebo or for real. I'll let you know when I feel

> > more certain about it. But I

> > > am encouraged.

> > > >

> > > > penny

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Talk about mistaking one organism for another. Until very recently, everyone believed that actinomyces was a fungus. pennydumbaussie2000 <dumbaussie2000@...> wrote: DanThese organisms count in the billions if not trillions and people should have them MONITORED. It's no good having a diagnosis of a pseudonomas infection and hearing that some herbs and spices will eradicate it and it's gone- when if you sent me a sample I could still find you'll grow 900

colonies.This is why I get frustrated. The organism may be responsable for destroying your lungs as is the case in cystic fibrosis, most loose lung function and die in there 30's or are given transplants that give them an extra 5..So I would believe by doing things like your claiming that you can aid yourself if you have a pseudonomas infection- eradication would be in the vicinity of minimul 2 years of multiple antibiotic therapy, similar if not more intense than TB treatments.This is science that I would witness frequently. The wives tales keep people stuck and ill for a long time unfortunately. Pseudonomas is almost always mistaken for thrush in the CFS community.tony> > > >> > > > That's a scary thought. My skin has

suddenly gotten thin as well. > > I now cut very easily > > > and the cuts take a long time to heal and the scars last on. I also > > have become > > > photosensitive, probably due to the long term use of the penicillin.> > > > > > > > But I'll give it a try and see what happens and report back. > > Maybe in fact it will act like > > > a chemical peel and remove the brown patches on my arms? > > > > > > > > Anyway, I just bought some Triphalia in tablet form, and I'm > > happy because it contains > > > both the bellica and the other, so all my microbes should be > > covered. I've used it for a > > > couple of days and so far so good. My sinuses feel better, but I > > have to wait to see if it's > > > coincidence, placebo or for real. I'll let you know

when I feel > > more certain about it. But I > > > am encouraged.> > > > > > > > penny> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Well, I can tell you " wives tales " as you call them, about various friends and

people I've met

who have recovered 90-100% by using the naturopathic approach.

In fact, that's how I found the doctor I'm seeing who FOUND the psuedomonas

infection

(which yes, I did think was thrush, however she did find a yeast infection as

well).

This particular doctor helped a man in my support group completely recover in 10

months

to a year, without any antibiotics. He had multiple parasite infections and

something else

(can't recall right now) going on and had quite the rocky road for that

year...but has been

back to work for almost a year now -- full time, TELECOMMUTING from Seattle to

Los

Angeles. He also got married, and has a one year old son.

I would estimate I know 7 people that have recovered (one is at about 90%). 2

of those did

take abx for a year or more, but the rest went the naturo route.

Believe me, I will have them monitored as I can afford to, but unless you want

to send me a

money order, that's not in the cards right now, and I would guess it's a little

early, since

I've only been treating it for less than a month.

If I get substantially worse however, then perhaps my family will step up, and

pay for an

earlier re-test.

Respectfully,

Dan

> > > > >

> > > > > That's a scary thought. My skin has suddenly gotten thin as

> well.

> > > I now cut very easily

> > > > and the cuts take a long time to heal and the scars last on. I

> also

> > > have become

> > > > photosensitive, probably due to the long term use of the

> penicillin.

> > > > >

> > > > > But I'll give it a try and see what happens and report

> back.

> > > Maybe in fact it will act like

> > > > a chemical peel and remove the brown patches on my arms?

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyway, I just bought some Triphalia in tablet form, and

> I'm

> > > happy because it contains

> > > > both the bellica and the other, so all my microbes should be

> > > covered. I've used it for a

> > > > couple of days and so far so good. My sinuses feel better, but

> I

> > > have to wait to see if it's

> > > > coincidence, placebo or for real. I'll let you know when I feel

> > > more certain about it. But I

> > > > am encouraged.

> > > > >

> > > > > penny

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Okay, I'll bite. Maybe I missed this but what is actinomyces?

a

>

> Talk about mistaking one organism for another. Until very recently,

everyone believed that actinomyces was a fungus.

>

> penny

[Guest guest]

It's the worm holing bacteria that is so hard to identify because the sample must be kept warm and gotten into a culture plate/incubator within 15 minutes. It's often found in our sinuses and jaws. Fortunately, it's slow growing but over time can do a lot of damage. It has a crystalline yellow form and until recently was actually listed as a fungus in all the medical books. I don't know who, but someone finally realized and confirmed that it's a bacteria. penny pjeanneus <pj7@...> wrote: Okay, I'll bite. Maybe I missed this but what is actinomyces?a>> Talk about mistaking one organism for another. Until very recently, everyone believed that actinomyces was a fungus. > > penny

[Guest guest]

Sounds awful. Did you get tested for this? I know your infection

seems to localize in your sinuses if you can call that localizing.

a

>

> It's the worm holing bacteria that is so hard to identify because

the sample must be kept warm and gotten into a culture

plate/incubator within 15 minutes. It's often found in our sinuses

and jaws. Fortunately, it's slow growing but over time can do a lot

of damage.

>

> It has a crystalline yellow form and until recently was actually

listed as a fungus in all the medical books. I don't know who, but

someone finally realized and confirmed that it's a bacteria.

>

> penny

>

>

>

> pjeanneus <pj7@...> wrote:

> Okay, I'll bite. Maybe I missed this but what is

actinomyces?

>

> a

>

> >

> > Talk about mistaking one organism for another. Until very

recently,

> everyone believed that actinomyces was a fungus.

> >

> > penny

>

[Guest guest]

I've never had a sample get to the lab in time for accurate testing. However, I have experienced the salty taste that it can produce, and I've got evidence of infection wormholing between my sinus/jaw and ears. So it's not an unreasonable assumption. It's difficult to detect, difficult to kill and I think far more people probably have it than is realized. Thanks to things like faulty dental practices, many of us have infections in our heads and other parts of the body that go completely unnoticed. penny pjeanneus <pj7@...> wrote: Sounds awful. Did you get tested for this? I know your infection seems to localize in your sinuses if you can call that localizing.a>> It's the worm holing bacteria that is so hard to identify because the sample must be kept warm and gotten into a culture plate/incubator within 15 minutes. It's often found in our sinuses and jaws. Fortunately, it's slow growing but over time can do a lot of damage.> > It has a crystalline yellow form and until recently was actually listed as a fungus in all the medical books. I don't know who, but someone finally realized and confirmed that it's a bacteria.> > penny> > > > pjeanneus <pj7@...> wrote:> Okay, I'll bite. Maybe I missed this but what is actinomyces?>

> a> > >> > Talk about mistaking one organism for another. Until very recently, > everyone believed that actinomyces was a fungus. > > > > penny>