Re: Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

[Guest guest]

I'm not so sure about general vs. local anesthesia. But I'd research the B vitamins as well as magnesium in addition to the potassium. B's can be really effective in all kinds of weird sensation stuff. I was having the morst bizarre, and increasingingly frequent, internal itching episodes on the palms of my hands, soles of feet, etc., and B complex cleared that right up. Apparently, certain bs are essential for proper nerve functioning, and our b stores are often depleted fighting these infections. Magnesium is another important mineral, which needs to be balanced with potassium as they antagonize each other (along with calcium). Magnesium deficiency could potentially explain your weird palpitation episodes as well. Of the massive number of supplements I've ever taken, Magnesium and the Bs have always given me the most immediate positive results. Here's an excerpt from a page on magnesium and how it affects nerves and muscles (the heart is a big muscle and the circulatory system is made up of miniscule musles in the vein walls.) Nerve and Muscle Relaxation Magnesium and its fellow macronutrient, calcium, act together to help regulate the body's nerve and muscle tone. In many nerve cells, magnesium serves as a chemical gate blocker - as long as there is enough magnesium around, calcium can't rush into the nerve cell and activate the nerve. This gate blocking by magnesium helps keep the nerve relaxed. If our diet provides us with too little magnesium, this gate blocking can fail and the nerve cell can become overactivated. When some nerve cells are overactivated, they can send too many messages to the muscles and cause

the muscles to overcontract. This chain of events helps explain how magnesium deficiency can trigger muscle tension, muscle soreness, muscle spasms, muscle cramps, and muscle fatigue. Other functions of magnesium Many chemical reactions in the body involve the presence of an enzyme. Enzymes are special proteins that help trigger chemical reactions. Over 300 different enzymes in the body require magnesium in order to function. For this reason, the functions of this mineral are especially diverse. Magnesium is involved in the metabolism of proteins, carbohydrates, and fats. It helps genes function properly. Some fuels cannot be stored in our muscle cells unless adequate supplies of magnesium are available. The metabolic role of magnesium is so diverse that it is difficult to find a body system that is not affected by magnesium deficiency. Our cardiovascular system, digestive system,

nervous system, muscles, kidneys, liver, hormone-secreting glands, and brain all rely on magnesium for their metabolic function. Deficiency Symptoms What are deficiency symptoms for magnesium? Because magnesium plays such a wide variety of roles in the body, the symptoms of magnesium deficiency can also vary widely. Many symptoms involve changes in nerve and muscle function. These changes include muscle weakness, tremor, and spasm. In the heart muscle, magnesium deficiency can result in arrhythmia, irregular contraction, and increased heart rate. Because of its role in bone structure, the softening and weakening of bone can also be a symptom of magnesium deficiency. Other symptoms can include: imbalanced blood sugar levels;

headaches; elevated blood pressure; elevated fats in the bloodstream; depression; seizures; nausea; vomiting; and lack of appetite. http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient & dbid=75 penny Agentbleu <colourbleu@...> wrote: maybe look into your potassium levels, try a little of it to see if it changes anything or if your very sensitive to it, this can I have found

cause symptoms like you describe. Dont take a lot, little bits every day.. s On 3 Nov 2007, at 19:24, SHELLEY REED wrote: Thank you, Steve. Question for the group: I have to have drive through surgery in a few weeks and my instincts tell me to stay away from general anesthesia, I've got some really goofy day to day neurological symptoms like numness in hands, and

major delay in sensations, like running up a large staircase and not physically needing deep breathing until I'm all the way up and away from the stairs, then my heart starts to pound, etc., brain freeze from frozen food four minutes after eating it. I'm thinking of going with an epidural to try to keep my brain out of it. Is my reasoning somewhat on track? Thank you, infections From: colourbleufree (DOT) frDate: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 18:18:23 +0100Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing The film is on the torrents if you can download the torrent https://sdlc4a.sun.com:443/ECom/SDMIntegrated or here http://torrents.to/search/247/ghost+in+your+genes.html then you download it with some torrent download software like Azureus steve On 3 Nov 2007, at 18:05, SHELLEY REED wrote: Nothing would make me happier than for the DD to evolve out of existence. I could hardly believe my eyes and ears when I watched that show. I'll see if

I can find that link for you. All the best, infections From: pennyhoule Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 08:28:09 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing "...recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced as well." That is truly bizarre. I need to see that show. I've always kind of suspected that

evolution comes in sudden leaps, in part to respond to environmental changes, not slow steady change as we've been taught. Weird. penny p.s. at this rate, we're going to evolve out of this disease before doctors ever figure it out. :-) SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote: Hi Tony - I don't have that data with me, I will be able to look it up on Monday and let you know. Warning, I'm not as sophisticated on medical vocabulary as you folks are, but I do know I have data on clotting and RBC, which I believe is what you are referring to. I recall that I was not anemic and I had one clotting figure out of sorts. My father has a clotting disorder which I am trying to get more information on because I

think it would help explain the pain if I have inherited that. Also curious to me, he had polio as a young man and recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced as well. I guess we're all longsuffering medical pioneers. I really appreciate the conversations you folks have here, thank you for all your hard work. infections From: dumbaussie2000 .auDate: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 23:30:19

+0000Subject: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing Just curious, what was your platelet count like?I think often we do run pretty low platelet counts at times which mnay also explain this..tony>> > At the risk of sounding really dumb, I'm a CFS/EBV/FMer, and recently tried taking 200mg of grapeseed extract daily and found it really helped my energy level and pain, and helped me not get a horrible cold that was going through the house. I stopped last week because I had a blood draw in prep for surgery and at least for that day my arm wouldn't stop bleeding without forceful pressure. Which is to say i believe it has blood thinning properties. For what it's worth.> > > > >

[Guest guest]

A fantastic source of Potassium is V-8 juice. You get something like 600mg in a glass, and for some FDA reason the maximum you can buy in a capsule form is 99mg. If you're depleted in potassium, then you're going to have to take a lot of capsules. Just sipping on V-8 is a lot easier. I think Brazil nuts also have high levels of mag & potassium & calcium for their size. They're also really high in selenium, another mineral we are often deficient in. penny SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote: Thank you, I'll try it. S. infections From: colourbleufree (DOT) frDate: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 19:58:40 +0100Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing maybe look into your potassium levels, try a little of it to see if it changes anything or if your very sensitive to it, this can I have found cause symptoms like you describe. Dont take a lot, little bits every day.. s On 3 Nov 2007, at 19:24, SHELLEY REED wrote: Thank you, Steve. Question for the group: I have to have drive through surgery in a few weeks and my instincts tell me to stay away from general anesthesia, I've got some really goofy day to day neurological symptoms like numness in hands, and major delay in sensations, like running up a large staircase and not physically needing deep breathing until I'm all the way up and away from the stairs, then my heart starts to pound, etc., brain freeze from frozen food four minutes after eating it. I'm thinking of going with an epidural to try to keep my brain out of it. Is my reasoning somewhat on track? Thank you, infections From: colourbleufree (DOT) frDate: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 18:18:23 +0100Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing The film is on the torrents if you can download the torrent https://sdlc4a.sun.com:443/ECom/SDMIntegrated or here http://torrents.to/search/247/ghost+in+your+genes.html then you download it with some torrent download software like Azureus steve On 3 Nov 2007, at 18:05, SHELLEY REED wrote: Nothing would make me happier than for the DD to evolve out of existence. I could hardly believe my eyes and ears when I watched that show. I'll see if I can find that link for you. All the best, infections From: pennyhoule Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 08:28:09 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing "...recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced as well." That is truly bizarre. I need to see that show. I've always kind of suspected that evolution comes in sudden leaps, in part to respond to environmental changes, not slow steady change as we've been taught. Weird. penny p.s. at this rate, we're going to evolve out of this disease before doctors ever figure it out. :-) SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote: Hi Tony - I don't have that data with me, I will be able to look it up on Monday and let you know. Warning, I'm not as sophisticated on medical vocabulary as you folks are, but I do know I have data on clotting and RBC, which I believe is what you are referring to. I recall that I was not anemic and I had one clotting figure out of sorts. My father has a clotting disorder which I am trying to get more information on because I think it would help explain the pain if I have inherited that. Also curious to me, he had polio as a young man and recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how we

inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced as well. I guess we're all longsuffering medical pioneers. I really appreciate the conversations you folks have here, thank you for all your hard work. infections From: dumbaussie2000 .auDate: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 23:30:19 +0000Subject: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing Just curious, what was your platelet count like?I think often we do run pretty low platelet counts at times which mnay also explain this..tony>> > At the risk of sounding really

dumb, I'm a CFS/EBV/FMer, and recently tried taking 200mg of grapeseed extract daily and found it really helped my energy level and pain, and helped me not get a horrible cold that was going through the house. I stopped last week because I had a blood draw in prep for surgery and at least for that day my arm wouldn't stop bleeding without forceful pressure. Which is to say i believe it has blood thinning properties. For what it's worth.> > > >

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, I'd best be paying more attention to supplements. I think I'll bulk up on this running up to surgery (not overdoing) to give myself the best chance of minimal damage. Thank you so much for the feedback, I'm drinking the disgusting-tasting mult-vitamin/mineral, amino acid drink as we speak.

infections From: pennyhoule@...Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 12:21:36 -0700Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

I'm not so sure about general vs. local anesthesia. But I'd research the B vitamins as well as magnesium in addition to the potassium. B's can be really effective in all kinds of weird sensation stuff. I was having the morst bizarre, and increasingingly frequent, internal itching episodes on the palms of my hands, soles of feet, etc., and B complex cleared that right up. Apparently, certain bs are essential for proper nerve functioning, and our b stores are often depleted fighting these infections. Magnesium is another important mineral, which needs to be balanced with potassium as they antagonize each other (along with calcium). Magnesium deficiency could potentially explain your weird palpitation episodes as well. Of the massive number of supplements I've ever taken, Magnesium and the Bs have always given me the most immediate positive results.

Here's an excerpt from a page on magnesium and how it affects nerves and muscles (the heart is a big muscle and the circulatory system is made up of miniscule musles in the vein walls.)

Nerve and Muscle Relaxation

Magnesium and its fellow macronutrient, calcium, act together to help regulate the body's nerve and muscle tone. In many nerve cells, magnesium serves as a chemical gate blocker - as long as there is enough magnesium around, calcium can't rush into the nerve cell and activate the nerve. This gate blocking by magnesium helps keep the nerve relaxed. If our diet provides us with too little magnesium, this gate blocking can fail and the nerve cell can become overactivated. When some nerve cells are overactivated, they can send too many messages to the muscles and cause the muscles to overcontract. This chain of events helps explain how magnesium deficiency can trigger muscle tension, muscle soreness, muscle spasms, muscle cramps, and muscle fatigue.

Other functions of magnesium

Many chemical reactions in the body involve the presence of an enzyme. Enzymes are special proteins that help trigger chemical reactions. Over 300 different enzymes in the body require magnesium in order to function. For this reason, the functions of this mineral are especially diverse. Magnesium is involved in the metabolism of proteins, carbohydrates, and fats. It helps genes function properly. Some fuels cannot be stored in our muscle cells unless adequate supplies of magnesium are available. The metabolic role of magnesium is so diverse that it is difficult to find a body system that is not affected by magnesium deficiency. Our cardiovascular system, digestive system, nervous system, muscles, kidneys, liver, hormone-secreting glands, and brain all rely on magnesium for their metabolic function.

Deficiency Symptoms

What are deficiency symptoms for magnesium?

Because magnesium plays such a wide variety of roles in the body, the symptoms of magnesium deficiency can also vary widely. Many symptoms involve changes in nerve and muscle function. These changes include muscle weakness, tremor, and spasm. In the heart muscle, magnesium deficiency can result in arrhythmia, irregular contraction, and increased heart rate.

Because of its role in bone structure, the softening and weakening of bone can also be a symptom of magnesium deficiency. Other symptoms can include: imbalanced blood sugar levels; headaches; elevated blood pressure; elevated fats in the bloodstream; depression; seizures; nausea; vomiting; and lack of appetite.

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient & dbid=75

penny

Agentbleu <colourbleufree (DOT) fr> wrote:

maybe look into your potassium levels, try a little of it to see if it changes anything or if your very sensitive to it, this can I have found cause symptoms like you describe. Dont take a lot, little bits every day.. s

On 3 Nov 2007, at 19:24, SHELLEY REED wrote:

Thank you, Steve. Question for the group: I have to have drive through surgery in a few weeks and my instincts tell me to stay away from general anesthesia, I've got some really goofy day to day neurological symptoms like numness in hands, and major delay in sensations, like running up a large staircase and not physically needing deep breathing until I'm all the way up and away from the stairs, then my heart starts to pound, etc., brain freeze from frozen food four minutes after eating it. I'm thinking of going with an epidural to try to keep my brain out of it. Is my reasoning somewhat on track? Thank you,

infections From: colourbleufree (DOT) frDate: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 18:18:23 +0100Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

The film is on the torrents if you can download the torrent https://sdlc4a.sun.com:443/ECom/SDMIntegrated

or here

http://torrents.to/search/247/ghost+in+your+genes.html

then you download it with some torrent download software like Azureus

steve

On 3 Nov 2007, at 18:05, SHELLEY REED wrote:

Nothing would make me happier than for the DD to evolve out of existence. I could hardly believe my eyes and ears when I watched that show. I'll see if I can find that link for you. All the best,

infections From: pennyhoule Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 08:28:09 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

"...recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced as well."

That is truly bizarre. I need to see that show. I've always kind of suspected that evolution comes in sudden leaps, in part to respond to environmental changes, not slow steady change as we've been taught. Weird.

penny

p.s. at this rate, we're going to evolve out of this disease before doctors ever figure it out. :-)

SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote:

Hi Tony - I don't have that data with me, I will be able to look it up on Monday and let you know. Warning, I'm not as sophisticated on medical vocabulary as you folks are, but I do know I have data on clotting and RBC, which I believe is what you are referring to. I recall that I was not anemic and I had one clotting figure out of sorts. My father has a clotting disorder which I am trying to get more information on because I think it would help explain the pain if I have inherited that. Also curious to me, he had polio as a young man and recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced as well. I guess we're all longsuffering medical pioneers. I really appreciate the conversations you folks have here, thank you for all your hard work.

infections From: dumbaussie2000 .auDate: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 23:30:19 +0000Subject: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

Just curious, what was your platelet count like?I think often we do run pretty low platelet counts at times which mnay also explain this..tony>> > At the risk of sounding really dumb, I'm a CFS/EBV/FMer, and recently tried taking 200mg of grapeseed extract daily and found it really helped my energy level and pain, and helped me not get a horrible cold that was going through the house. I stopped last week because I had a blood draw in prep for surgery and at least for that day my arm wouldn't stop bleeding without forceful pressure. Which is to say i believe it has blood thinning properties. For what it's worth.> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Perfect, I've got it in the cupboard. I was so frightened to do the surgery thing because the majority of doctors do not acknowledge that there's anything wrong with me (us) and it terrifies me that something could go very wrong and they'd just stand there and tell me I'm depressed (which is the only thing they can come up with when they don't understand something) as I float off into the next world.

You're wonderful - I'm grateful this board is here.

infections From: pennyhoule@...Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 12:28:28 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

A fantastic source of Potassium is V-8 juice. You get something like 600mg in a glass, and for some FDA reason the maximum you can buy in a capsule form is 99mg. If you're depleted in potassium, then you're going to have to take a lot of capsules. Just sipping on V-8 is a lot easier. I think Brazil nuts also have high levels of mag & potassium & calcium for their size. They're also really high in selenium, another mineral we are often deficient in.

penny

SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote:

Thank you, I'll try it. S.

infections From: colourbleufree (DOT) frDate: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 19:58:40 +0100Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

maybe look into your potassium levels, try a little of it to see if it changes anything or if your very sensitive to it, this can I have found cause symptoms like you describe. Dont take a lot, little bits every day.. s

On 3 Nov 2007, at 19:24, SHELLEY REED wrote:

Thank you, Steve. Question for the group: I have to have drive through surgery in a few weeks and my instincts tell me to stay away from general anesthesia, I've got some really goofy day to day neurological symptoms like numness in hands, and major delay in sensations, like running up a large staircase and not physically needing deep breathing until I'm all the way up and away from the stairs, then my heart starts to pound, etc., brain freeze from frozen food four minutes after eating it. I'm thinking of going with an epidural to try to keep my brain out of it. Is my reasoning somewhat on track? Thank you,

infections From: colourbleufree (DOT) frDate: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 18:18:23 +0100Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

The film is on the torrents if you can download the torrent https://sdlc4a.sun.com:443/ECom/SDMIntegrated

or here

http://torrents.to/search/247/ghost+in+your+genes.html

then you download it with some torrent download software like Azureus

steve

On 3 Nov 2007, at 18:05, SHELLEY REED wrote:

Nothing would make me happier than for the DD to evolve out of existence. I could hardly believe my eyes and ears when I watched that show. I'll see if I can find that link for you. All the best,

infections From: pennyhoule Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 08:28:09 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

"...recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced as well."

That is truly bizarre. I need to see that show. I've always kind of suspected that evolution comes in sudden leaps, in part to respond to environmental changes, not slow steady change as we've been taught. Weird.

penny

p.s. at this rate, we're going to evolve out of this disease before doctors ever figure it out. :-)

SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote:

Hi Tony - I don't have that data with me, I will be able to look it up on Monday and let you know. Warning, I'm not as sophisticated on medical vocabulary as you folks are, but I do know I have data on clotting and RBC, which I believe is what you are referring to. I recall that I was not anemic and I had one clotting figure out of sorts. My father has a clotting disorder which I am trying to get more information on because I think it would help explain the pain if I have inherited that. Also curious to me, he had polio as a young man and recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced as well. I guess we're all longsuffering medical pioneers. I really appreciate the conversations you folks have here, thank you for all your hard work.

infections From: dumbaussie2000 .auDate: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 23:30:19 +0000Subject: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

Just curious, what was your platelet count like?I think often we do run pretty low platelet counts at times which mnay also explain this..tony>> > At the risk of sounding really dumb, I'm a CFS/EBV/FMer, and recently tried taking 200mg of grapeseed extract daily and found it really helped my energy level and pain, and helped me not get a horrible cold that was going through the house. I stopped last week because I had a blood draw in prep for surgery and at least for that day my arm wouldn't stop bleeding without forceful pressure. Which is to say i believe it has blood thinning properties. For what it's worth.> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Maybe V-8 is a good source of

potassium but I'd have a good look at its ingredient list to make sure

you're not ingesting food colorings, "natural flavor" (MSG) and God

knows what else in the process.

--Bob

Penny Houle wrote:

A fantastic source of Potassium is V-8 juice. You get something

like 600mg in a glass, and for some FDA reason the maximum you can buy

in a capsule form is 99mg. If you're depleted in potassium, then you're

going to have to take a lot of capsules. Just sipping on V-8 is a lot

easier. I think Brazil nuts also have high levels of mag &

potassium & calcium for their size. They're also really

high in selenium, another mineral we are often deficient in.

penny

SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote:

Thank you, I'll try it.

S.

infections

From: colourbleufree (DOT) fr

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 19:58:40 +0100

Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Prel iminary report

on coagulation testing

maybe look into your potassium levels, try

a little of it to see if it changes anything or if your very sensitive

to it, this can I have found cause symptoms like you describe. Dont

take a lot, little bits every day..

s

On 3 Nov 2007, at 19:24, SHELLEY REED wrote:

Thank you, Steve.

Question for the group: I have to have drive through surgery in a few

weeks and my instincts tell me to stay away from general anesthesia,

I've got some really goofy day to day neurological symptoms like

numness in hands, and major delay in sensations, like running up a

large staircase and not physically needing deep breathing until I'm all

the way up and away from the stairs, then my heart starts to pound,

etc., brain freeze from frozen food four minutes after eating it. I'm

thinking of going with an epidural to try to keep my brain out of it.

Is my reasoning somewhat on track?

Thank you,

infections

From: colourbleufree (DOT) fr

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007

18:18:23 +0100

Subject: Re:

[infections] Re: Preliminary

report on coagulation testing

The film is on the

torrents if you can download the torrent

https://sdlc4a.sun.com:443/ECom/SDMIntegrated

or here

http://torrents.to/search/247/ghost+in+your+genes.html

then you download it

with some torrent download software like Azureus

steve

On 3 Nov 2007, at

18:05, SHELLEY REED wrote:

Nothing would make me

happier than for the DD to evolve out of existence. I could hardly

believe my eyes and ears when I watched that show. I'll see if I can

find that link for you.

All the best,

infections

From: pennyhoule

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007

08:28:09 -0700

Subject: RE:

[infections] Re:

Preliminary report on coagulation testing

"...recently

Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than genes from our

parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced

as well."

That is truly bizarre.

I need to see that show. I've always kind of suspected that evolution

comes in sudden leaps, in part to respond to environmental changes, not

slow steady change as we've been taught. Weird.

penny

p.s. at this rate,

we're going to evolve out of this disease before doctors ever figure it

out. :-)

SHELLEY

REED <sreedp@...> wrote:

Hi Tony -

I don't have that data

with me, I will be able to look it up on Monday and let you know.

Warning, I'm not as sophisticated on medical vocabulary as you folks

are, but I do know I have data on clotting and RBC, which I believe is

what you are referring to. I recall that I was not anemic and I had

one clotting figure out of sorts. My father has a clotting disorder

which I am trying to get more information on because I think it would

help explain the pain if I have inherited that. Also curious to me, he

had polio as a young man and recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how

we inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any

physical insults that they experienced as well.

I guess we're all

longsuffering medical pioneers. I really appreciate the conversations

you folks have here, thank you for all your hard work.

infections

From: dumbaussie2000 .au

Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007

23:30:19 +0000

Subject:

[infections] Re:

Preliminary report on coagulation testing

Just curious, what was

your platelet count like?I think often we do

run pretty low platelet

counts at times which mnay also explain this..

tony

--- In infections , SHELLEY REED

<sreedp@...>

wrote:

>

>

> At the risk of so

unding really dumb, I'm a CFS/EBV/FMer, and

recently tried taking

200mg of grapeseed extract daily and found it

really helped my energy

level and pain, and helped me not get a

horrible cold that was

going through the house. I stopped last week

because I had a blood

draw in prep for surgery and at least for that

day my arm wouldn't

stop bleeding without forceful pressure. Which

is to say i believe it

has blood thinning properties. For what it's

worth.

>

>

>

>

>

< BR

class="EC_EC_khtml-block-placeholder">

[Guest guest]

I'll check that, and look for the natural alternative if need be.

Thank you -

S.

infections From: bob@...Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 12:48:49 -0700Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

Maybe V-8 is a good source of potassium but I'd have a good look at its ingredient list to make sure you're not ingesting food colorings, "natural flavor" (MSG) and God knows what else in the process.--BobPenny Houle wrote:

A fantastic source of Potassium is V-8 juice. You get something like 600mg in a glass, and for some FDA reason the maximum you can buy in a capsule form is 99mg. If you're depleted in potassium, then you're going to have to take a lot of capsules. Just sipping on V-8 is a lot easier. I think Brazil nuts also have high levels of mag & potassium & calcium for their size. They're also really high in selenium, another mineral we are often deficient in.

penny

SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote:

Thank you, I'll try it. S.

infections From: colourbleufree (DOT) frDate: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 19:58:40 +0100Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Prel iminary report on coagulation testing

maybe look into your potassium levels, try a little of it to see if it changes anything or if your very sensitive to it, this can I have found cause symptoms like you describe. Dont take a lot, little bits every day.. s

On 3 Nov 2007, at 19:24, SHELLEY REED wrote:

Thank you, Steve. Question for the group: I have to have drive through surgery in a few weeks and my instincts tell me to stay away from general anesthesia, I've got some really goofy day to day neurological symptoms like numness in hands, and major delay in sensations, like running up a large staircase and not physically needing deep breathing until I'm all the way up and away from the stairs, then my heart starts to pound, etc., brain freeze from frozen food four minutes after eating it. I'm thinking of going with an epidural to try to keep my brain out of it. Is my reasoning somewhat on track? Thank you,

infections From: colourbleufree (DOT) frDate: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 18:18:23 +0100Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

The film is on the torrents if you can download the torrent https://sdlc4a.sun.com:443/ECom/SDMIntegrated

or here

http://torrents.to/search/247/ghost+in+your+genes.html

then you download it with some torrent download software like Azureus

steve

On 3 Nov 2007, at 18:05, SHELLEY REED wrote:

Nothing would make me happier than for the DD to evolve out of existence. I could hardly believe my eyes and ears when I watched that show. I'll see if I can find that link for you. All the best,

infections From: pennyhoule Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 08:28:09 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

"...recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced as well."

That is truly bizarre. I need to see that show. I've always kind of suspected that evolution comes in sudden leaps, in part to respond to environmental changes, not slow steady change as we've been taught. Weird.

penny

p.s. at this rate, we're going to evolve out of this disease before doctors ever figure it out. :-)

SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote:

Hi Tony - I don't have that data with me, I will be able to look it up on Monday and let you know. Warning, I'm not as sophisticated on medical vocabulary as you folks are, but I do know I have data on clotting and RBC, which I believe is what you are referring to. I recall that I was not anemic and I had one clotting figure out of sorts. My father has a clotting disorder which I am trying to get more information on because I think it would help explain the pain if I have inherited that. Also curious to me, he had polio as a young man and recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced as well. I guess we're all longsuffering medical pioneers. I really appreciate the conversations you folks have here, thank you for all your hard work.

infections From: dumbaussie2000 .auDate: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 23:30:19 +0000Subject: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

Just curious, what was your platelet count like?I think often we do run pretty low platelet counts at times which mnay also explain this..tony>> > At the risk of so unding really dumb, I'm a CFS/EBV/FMer, and recently tried taking 200mg of grapeseed extract daily and found it really helped my energy level and pain, and helped me not get a horrible cold that was going through the house. I stopped last week because I had a blood draw in prep for surgery and at least for that day my arm wouldn't stop bleeding without forceful pressure. Which is to say i believe it has blood thinning properties. For what it's worth.> > > > >

< BR class="EC_EC_khtml-block-placeholder">

[Guest guest]

Getting your mag/cal/potassium ratio right can be tricky if you have no testing to base it on. That's why they sell cal/mag combined as the two antagonize each other (i.e. increasing cal can decrease mag). But I know that many of us with chronic illness are more depleted in mag than cal, so personally I emphasize the mag over calcium. I figure I get enough cal in my food, but definitely not enough magnesium. And potassium is probably a similar kind of thing. I generally think it's best to add them seperately and see how you feel after taking each one to determine how much to take. Unless you get lucky with some kind of multiple, I don't think multis work so well for people like us. penny SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote: Perfect, I've got it in the cupboard. I was so frightened to do the surgery thing because the majority of doctors do not acknowledge that there's anything wrong with me (us) and it terrifies me that something could go very wrong and they'd just stand there and tell me I'm depressed (which is the only thing they can come up with when they don't understand something) as I float off into the next world. You're wonderful - I'm grateful this board is here. infections From: pennyhoule Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 12:28:28

-0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing A fantastic source of Potassium is V-8 juice. You get something like 600mg in a glass, and for some FDA reason the maximum you can buy in a capsule form is 99mg. If you're depleted in potassium, then you're going to have to take a lot of capsules. Just sipping on V-8 is a lot easier. I think Brazil nuts also have high levels of mag & potassium & calcium for their size. They're also really high in selenium, another mineral we are often deficient in. penny SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote: Thank you, I'll try it. S. To:

infections From: colourbleufree (DOT) frDate: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 19:58:40 +0100Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing maybe look into your potassium levels, try a little of it to see if it changes anything or if your very sensitive to it, this can I have found cause symptoms like you describe. Dont take a lot, little bits every day.. s On 3 Nov 2007, at 19:24, SHELLEY REED wrote: Thank you, Steve. Question for the group: I have to have drive through surgery in a few weeks and my instincts tell me to stay away from general anesthesia, I've got some really goofy day to day neurological symptoms like numness in hands, and major delay in sensations, like running up a large staircase and not physically needing deep breathing until I'm all the way up and away from the stairs, then my heart starts to pound, etc., brain freeze from frozen food four minutes after eating it. I'm thinking of going with an epidural to try to keep my brain out of it. Is my reasoning somewhat on track? Thank you, infections From: colourbleufree (DOT) frDate: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 18:18:23 +0100Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report

on coagulation testing The film is on the torrents if you can download the torrent https://sdlc4a.sun.com:443/ECom/SDMIntegrated or here http://torrents.to/search/247/ghost+in+your+genes.html then you download it with some torrent download software like Azureus steve On 3 Nov 2007, at 18:05, SHELLEY REED wrote: Nothing would make me happier than for the DD to evolve out of existence. I could hardly believe my eyes and ears when I watched that show. I'll see if I can find that link for you. All the best, infections From: pennyhoule Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 08:28:09 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing "...recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced as well." That is truly bizarre. I need to see that show. I've always kind of suspected that evolution comes in sudden leaps, in part to respond to environmental changes, not slow steady change as we've been taught.

Weird. penny p.s. at this

rate, we're going to evolve out of this disease before doctors ever figure it out. :-) SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote: Hi Tony - I don't have that data with me, I will be able to look it up on Monday and let you know. Warning, I'm not as sophisticated on medical vocabulary as you folks are, but I do know I have data on clotting and RBC, which I believe is what you are referring to. I recall that I was not anemic and I had one clotting figure out of sorts. My father has a clotting disorder which I am trying to get more information

on because I think it would help explain the pain if I have inherited that. Also curious to me, he had polio as a young man and recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced as well. I guess we're all longsuffering medical pioneers. I really appreciate the conversations you folks have here, thank you for all your hard work. infections From: dumbaussie2000 .auDate: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 23:30:19 +0000Subject: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing Just curious, what was your platelet count like?I think often we do run pretty low platelet counts at times which mnay also explain this..tony>> > At the risk of sounding really dumb, I'm a CFS/EBV/FMer, and recently tried taking 200mg of grapeseed extract daily and found it really helped my energy level and pain, and helped me not get a

horrible cold that was going through the house. I stopped last week because I had a blood draw in prep for surgery and at least for that day my arm wouldn't stop bleeding without forceful pressure. Which is to say i believe it has blood thinning properties. For what it's worth.> > > > >

[Guest guest]

You probably know that bananas are also high in potassium. And they're also a source of B6, although I'm not sure that's the b that's best for nerves. You should research that a little. When it comes to the Bs though, a B complex is generally best because it's hard to get all of the bs balanced correctly (they also antagonize each other, so taking one and not another can cause dangerous imbalances). In addition to the complex, you often need to add B12 seperately to get enough of that, since it's a little different than all the other Bs. Sometimes supplemental B12 is difficult to utilize but I found the B complex to be remarkably effective for my weird nerve symptoms. And don't freak out if your urine turns really dark yellow. Or even green. That's just the excess b's your body doesn't assimilate. pennyPenny Houle <pennyhoule@...> wrote: Getting your mag/cal/potassium ratio right can be tricky if you have no testing to base it on. That's why they sell cal/mag combined as the two antagonize each other (i.e. increasing cal can decrease mag). But I know that many of us with chronic illness are more depleted in mag than cal, so personally I emphasize the mag over calcium. I figure I get enough cal in my food, but definitely not enough magnesium. And potassium is probably a similar kind of thing. I generally think it's best to add them seperately and see how you feel after

taking each one to determine how much to take. Unless you get lucky with some kind of multiple, I don't think multis work so well for people like us. penny SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote: Perfect, I've got it in the cupboard. I was so frightened to do the surgery thing because the majority of doctors do not acknowledge that there's anything wrong with me (us) and it terrifies me that something could go very wrong and they'd just stand there and tell me I'm depressed (which is the only thing they can come up with when they don't understand something) as I float off into the next world. You're wonderful - I'm grateful this board is here. To:

infections From: pennyhoule Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 12:28:28 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing A fantastic source of Potassium is V-8 juice. You get something like 600mg in a glass, and for some FDA reason the maximum you can buy in a capsule form is 99mg. If you're depleted in potassium, then you're going to have to take a lot of capsules. Just sipping on V-8 is a lot easier. I think Brazil nuts also have high levels of mag & potassium & calcium for their size. They're also really high in selenium, another mineral we are often deficient in. penny SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote: Thank you, I'll try it. S. infections From: colourbleufree (DOT) frDate: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 19:58:40 +0100Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing maybe look into your potassium levels, try a little of it to see if it changes anything or if your very sensitive to it, this can I have found cause symptoms like you describe. Dont take a lot, little bits every day.. s On 3 Nov 2007, at 19:24, SHELLEY REED wrote: Thank you, Steve. Question for the group: I have to have drive through surgery in a few weeks and my instincts tell me to stay away from general anesthesia, I've got some really goofy day to day neurological symptoms like numness in hands, and major delay in sensations, like running up a large staircase and not physically needing deep breathing until I'm all the way up and away from the stairs, then my heart starts to pound, etc., brain freeze from frozen food four minutes after eating it. I'm thinking of going with an epidural to try to keep my brain out of it. Is my reasoning somewhat on track? Thank you, infections From: colourbleufree (DOT) frDate: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 18:18:23 +0100Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing The film is on the torrents if you can download the torrent https://sdlc4a.sun.com:443/ECom/SDMIntegrated or here http://torrents.to/search/247/ghost+in+your+genes.html then you download it with some torrent download software like Azureus steve On 3 Nov 2007, at 18:05, SHELLEY REED wrote: Nothing would make me happier than for the DD to evolve out of existence. I could hardly believe my eyes and ears when I watched that show. I'll see if I can find that link for you. All the best, infections From: pennyhoule Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 08:28:09 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing "...recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced as well." That is truly bizarre. I need to see that show. I've always kind of suspected that evolution comes in sudden leaps, in part to respond to

environmental changes, not slow steady change as we've been taught. Weird. penny p.s. at this rate, we're going to evolve out of this disease before doctors ever figure it out. :-) SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote: Hi Tony - I don't have that data with me, I will be able to look it up on Monday and let you know. Warning, I'm not as sophisticated on medical vocabulary as you folks are, but I do know I have data on clotting and RBC, which I believe is what you are referring to. I recall that I was not anemic and I had one clotting figure out of

sorts. My father has a clotting disorder which I am trying to get more information on because I think it would help explain the pain if I have inherited that. Also curious to me, he had polio as a young man and recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced as well. I guess we're all longsuffering medical pioneers. I really appreciate the conversations you folks have here, thank you for all your hard

work. infections From: dumbaussie2000 .auDate: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 23:30:19 +0000Subject: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing Just curious, what was your platelet count like?I think often we do run pretty low platelet counts at times which mnay also explain this..tony>> > At the risk of sounding really dumb, I'm a CFS/EBV/FMer, and recently tried taking 200mg of grapeseed extract daily and found it really helped my energy level and pain, and helped me not get a horrible cold that was going through the house. I stopped last week because I had a blood draw in prep for surgery and at least for that day my arm wouldn't stop bleeding without forceful pressure. Which

is to say i believe it has blood thinning properties. For what it's worth.> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Penny -

I've got a good B complex, just wasn't paying attention to religiously taking it. I'll check previous blood tests to see if there's anything there about magnesium, potasium, et al. There was just something on TV about bananas, avocado and something else (challenged memory too)high in potassium, oh, citrus. I'll take a little time to parse it all out, analyze my diet. I just wasn't taking the supplement thing very seriously, guess I should have been. Live and learn.

Merci -

S.

infections From: pennyhoule@...Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 13:57:29 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

You probably know that bananas are also high in potassium. And they're also a source of B6, although I'm not sure that's the b that's best for nerves. You should research that a little. When it comes to the Bs though, a B complex is generally best because it's hard to get all of the bs balanced correctly (they also antagonize each other, so taking one and not another can cause dangerous imbalances). In addition to the complex, you often need to add B12 seperately to get enough of that, since it's a little different than all the other Bs. Sometimes supplemental B12 is difficult to utilize but I found the B complex to be remarkably effective for my weird nerve symptoms. And don't freak out if your urine turns really dark yellow. Or even green. That's just the excess b's your body doesn't assimilate.

pennyPenny Houle <pennyhoule > wrote:

Getting your mag/cal/potassium ratio right can be tricky if you have no testing to base it on. That's why they sell cal/mag combined as the two antagonize each other (i.e. increasing cal can decrease mag). But I know that many of us with chronic illness are more depleted in mag than cal, so personally I emphasize the mag over calcium. I figure I get enough cal in my food, but definitely not enough magnesium. And potassium is probably a similar kind of thing. I generally think it's best to add them seperately and see how you feel after taking each one to determine how much to take. Unless you get lucky with some kind of multiple, I don't think multis work so well for people like us.

penny

SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote:

Perfect, I've got it in the cupboard. I was so frightened to do the surgery thing because the majority of doctors do not acknowledge that there's anything wrong with me (us) and it terrifies me that something could go very wrong and they'd just stand there and tell me I'm depressed (which is the only thing they can come up with when they don't understand something) as I float off into the next world. You're wonderful - I'm grateful this board is here.

infections From: pennyhoule Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 12:28:28 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

A fantastic source of Potassium is V-8 juice. You get something like 600mg in a glass, and for some FDA reason the maximum you can buy in a capsule form is 99mg. If you're depleted in potassium, then you're going to have to take a lot of capsules. Just sipping on V-8 is a lot easier. I think Brazil nuts also have high levels of mag & potassium & calcium for their size. They're also really high in selenium, another mineral we are often deficient in.

penny

SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote:

Thank you, I'll try it. S.

infections From: colourbleufree (DOT) frDate: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 19:58:40 +0100Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

maybe look into your potassium levels, try a little of it to see if it changes anything or if your very sensitive to it, this can I have found cause symptoms like you describe. Dont take a lot, little bits every day.. s

On 3 Nov 2007, at 19:24, SHELLEY REED wrote:

Thank you, Steve. Question for the group: I have to have drive through surgery in a few weeks and my instincts tell me to stay away from general anesthesia, I've got some really goofy day to day neurological symptoms like numness in hands, and major delay in sensations, like running up a large staircase and not physically needing deep breathing until I'm all the way up and away from the stairs, then my heart starts to pound, etc., brain freeze from frozen food four minutes after eating it. I'm thinking of going with an epidural to try to keep my brain out of it. Is my reasoning somewhat on track? Thank you,

infections From: colourbleufree (DOT) frDate: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 18:18:23 +0100Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

The film is on the torrents if you can download the torrent https://sdlc4a.sun.com:443/ECom/SDMIntegrated

or here

http://torrents.to/search/247/ghost+in+your+genes.html

then you download it with some torrent download software like Azureus

steve

On 3 Nov 2007, at 18:05, SHELLEY REED wrote:

Nothing would make me happier than for the DD to evolve out of existence. I could hardly believe my eyes and ears when I watched that show. I'll see if I can find that link for you. All the best,

infections From: pennyhoule Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 08:28:09 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

"...recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced as well."

That is truly bizarre. I need to see that show. I've always kind of suspected that evolution comes in sudden leaps, in part to respond to environmental changes, not slow steady change as we've been taught. Weird.

penny

p.s. at this rate, we're going to evolve out of this disease before doctors ever figure it out. :-)

SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote:

Hi Tony - I don't have that data with me, I will be able to look it up on Monday and let you know. Warning, I'm not as sophisticated on medical vocabulary as you folks are, but I do know I have data on clotting and RBC, which I believe is what you are referring to. I recall that I was not anemic and I had one clotting figure out of sorts. My father has a clotting disorder which I am trying to get more information on because I think it would help explain the pain if I have inherited that. Also curious to me, he had polio as a young man and recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced as well. I guess we're all longsuffering medical pioneers. I really appreciate the conversations you folks have here, thank you for all your hard work.

infections From: dumbaussie2000 .auDate: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 23:30:19 +0000Subject: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

Just curious, what was your platelet count like?I think often we do run pretty low platelet counts at times which mnay also explain this..tony>> > At the risk of sounding really dumb, I'm a CFS/EBV/FMer, and recently tried taking 200mg of grapeseed extract daily and found it really helped my energy level and pain, and helped me not get a horrible cold that was going through the house. I stopped last week because I had a blood draw in prep for surgery and at least for that day my arm wouldn't stop bleeding without forceful pressure. Which is to say i believe it has blood thinning properties. For what it's worth.> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi , For almost 2 years, I experimented with about a thousand supplements and took them religiously. I think most of them were pretty useless, definitely not worth the money I spent on them. :-) But I also think those of us with chronic infections and overworked immune systems become depleted in certain things. Mag and b which are common, and some others like potassium, selenium, etc. I know Barb was big on the electrolyte balance during her recovery, which is basically determined by these essential minerals. It's especially nice when you can relieve symptoms with something as easy and healthy as magnesium. As far as I'm concerned, it's a great mineral. Helps your heart, your intestines, your cells, your nerves, migraines, asthma, just about everything. Mag can even counter the negative effects that cipro can have on some

people's tendons. Someone on this list pointed that out, and I've found it really works. I rely on mag for a lot of positive things. And I'm also grateful for this board. :-) penny SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote: Hi Penny - I've got a good B complex, just wasn't paying attention to religiously taking it. I'll check previous blood tests to see if there's anything there about magnesium, potasium, et al. There was just something on TV about bananas, avocado

and something else (challenged memory too)high in potassium, oh, citrus. I'll take a little time to parse it all out, analyze my diet. I just wasn't taking the supplement thing very seriously, guess I should have been. Live and learn. Merci - S. infections From: pennyhoule Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 13:57:29 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing You probably know that bananas are also high in potassium. And they're also a source of B6, although I'm not sure that's the b that's best for nerves. You should research that a little. When it comes to the Bs though, a B complex is generally best because it's hard to get all of the bs balanced correctly (they also antagonize each other, so

taking one and not another can cause dangerous imbalances). In addition to the complex, you often need to add B12 seperately to get enough of that, since it's a little different than all the other Bs. Sometimes supplemental B12 is difficult to utilize but I found the B complex to be remarkably effective for my weird nerve symptoms. And don't freak out if your urine turns really dark yellow. Or even green. That's just the excess b's your body doesn't assimilate. pennyPenny Houle <pennyhoule > wrote: Getting your mag/cal/potassium ratio right can be tricky if you have no testing to base it on. That's why they sell cal/mag combined as the two antagonize each other (i.e. increasing cal can decrease mag). But I know that many of us with

chronic illness are more depleted in mag than cal, so personally I emphasize the mag over calcium. I figure I get enough cal in my food, but definitely not enough magnesium. And potassium is probably a similar kind of thing. I generally think it's best to add them seperately and see how you feel after taking each one to determine how much to take. Unless you get lucky with some kind of multiple, I don't think multis work so well for people like us. penny SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote: Perfect, I've got it in the cupboard. I was so frightened to do the surgery thing because the majority of doctors do not acknowledge that there's anything wrong with me (us) and it terrifies me that something could go very wrong and they'd just stand

there and tell me I'm depressed (which is the only thing they can come up with when they don't understand something) as I float off into the next world. You're wonderful - I'm grateful this board is here. infections From: pennyhoule Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 12:28:28 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing A fantastic source of Potassium is V-8 juice. You get something like 600mg in a glass, and for some FDA reason the maximum you can buy in a capsule form is 99mg. If you're depleted in potassium, then you're going to have to take a lot of capsules. Just sipping on V-8 is a lot easier. I think Brazil nuts also have high levels of mag & potassium & calcium for their

size. They're also really high in selenium, another mineral we are often deficient in. penny SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote: Thank you, I'll try it. S. infections From: colourbleufree (DOT) frDate: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 19:58:40 +0100Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing maybe look into your potassium levels, try a little of it to see if it changes anything or if your very sensitive to it, this can I have found cause symptoms like you describe. Dont take a lot, little bits every day.. s On 3 Nov 2007, at 19:24, SHELLEY REED wrote: Thank you, Steve. Question for the group: I have to have drive through surgery in a few weeks and my instincts tell me to stay away from general anesthesia, I've got some really goofy day to day neurological symptoms like numness in hands, and major delay in sensations, like running up

a large staircase and not physically needing deep breathing until I'm all the way up and away from the stairs, then my heart starts to pound, etc., brain freeze from frozen food four minutes after eating it. I'm thinking of going with an epidural to try to keep my brain out of it. Is my reasoning somewhat on track? Thank you, infections From: colourbleufree (DOT) frDate: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 18:18:23 +0100Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing The film is on the torrents if you can download the torrent https://sdlc4a.sun.com:443/ECom/SDMIntegrated or here http://torrents.to/search/247/ghost+in+your+genes.html then you download it with some torrent download software like Azureus steve On 3 Nov 2007, at 18:05, SHELLEY REED wrote: Nothing would make me happier than for the DD to evolve out of existence. I could hardly believe my eyes and ears when I watched that show. I'll see if I can find that link for you. All the best, infections From: pennyhoule Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 08:28:09 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing "...recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than

genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced as well." That is truly bizarre. I need to see that show. I've always kind of suspected that evolution comes in sudden leaps, in part to respond to environmental changes, not slow steady change as we've been taught. Weird. penny p.s. at this rate, we're going to evolve out of this disease before doctors ever figure it out. :-) SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote: Hi Tony - I don't have that data with me, I will be able to look it up on Monday and let you know. Warning, I'm not as sophisticated on medical vocabulary as you folks are, but I do know I have data on clotting and RBC, which I believe is what you are referring to. I recall that I was not anemic and I had one clotting figure out of sorts. My father has a clotting disorder which I am trying to get more information on because I think it would help explain the pain if I have inherited that. Also curious to me, he had polio as a young man and recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they

experienced as well. I guess we're all longsuffering medical pioneers. I really appreciate the conversations you folks have here, thank you for all your hard work. infections From: dumbaussie2000 .auDate: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 23:30:19 +0000Subject: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing Just curious, what was your platelet count like?I think often we do run pretty low platelet counts at times which mnay also explain this..tony>>

> At the risk of sounding really dumb, I'm a CFS/EBV/FMer, and recently tried taking 200mg of grapeseed extract daily and found it really helped my energy level and pain, and helped me not get a horrible cold that was going through the house. I stopped last week because I had a blood draw in prep for surgery and at least for that day my arm wouldn't stop bleeding without forceful pressure. Which is to say i believe it has blood thinning properties. For what it's worth.> > > > >

[Guest guest]

ovarian cysts.....

infections From: dumbaussie2000@...Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 01:25:47 +0000Subject: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

What are they removing?>> > At the risk of sounding really dumb, I'm a CFS/EBV/FMer, and recently tried taking 200mg of grapeseed extract daily and found it really helped my energy level and pain, and helped me not get a horrible cold that was going through the house. I stopped last week because I had a blood draw in prep for surgery and at least for that day my arm wouldn't stop bleeding without forceful pressure. Which is to say i believe it has blood thinning properties. For what it's worth.> > > > >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Penny

You might read "Lamarck's Signature" by Steele, Robyn Lindley and Blanden. Steele is somewhat of a square peg in a round hole, eventually losing tenure at his university because of his willingness to voice unpopular views.

Regards

R

[infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

Just curious, what was your platelet count like?I think often we do run pretty low platelet counts at times which mnay also explain this..tony>> > At the risk of sounding really dumb, I'm a CFS/EBV/FMer, and recently tried taking 200mg of grapeseed extract daily and found it really helped my energy level and pain, and helped me not get a horrible cold that was go ing through the house. I stopped last week because I had a blood draw in prep for surgery and at least for that day my arm wouldn't stop bleeding without forceful pressure. Which is to say i believe it has blood thinning properties. For what it's worth.> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Interesting. Thanks, Amy. Boy, I hope my kids aren't too epigenetic. :-) penny amydent9 <amydent9@...> wrote: > >pennywiki the word epigenetic

[Guest guest]

Hi Penny -

Okay, I learned two things today. Looked at old blood tests, yes I'm low on magnesium, potassium okay. So I will be supplementing the magnesium without fail. And I called Soup and asked about MSG in their V-8 and was told none added, but that tomatoes have naturally occuring glutamate. So I think I'll go ahead and use that for a mid-day snack to give myself a boost.

Also, another question, I'm curious as to whether anyone here has tried the Shoemaker protocol. I think I remember someone referring to it. He seems to have helped some people, but so far I haven't seen any first-hand testimonies.

Thank you!

infections From: pennyhoule@...Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 16:23:28 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

Hi ,

For almost 2 years, I experimented with about a thousand supplements and took them religiously. I think most of them were pretty useless, definitely not worth the money I spent on them. :-)

But I also think those of us with chronic infections and overworked immune systems become depleted in certain things. Mag and b which are common, and some others like potassium, selenium, etc. I know Barb was big on the electrolyte balance during her recovery, which is basically determined by these essential minerals.

It's especially nice when you can relieve symptoms with something as easy and healthy as magnesium. As far as I'm concerned, it's a great mineral. Helps your heart, your intestines, your cells, your nerves, migraines, asthma, just about everything. Mag can even counter the negative effects that cipro can have on some people's tendons. Someone on this list pointed that out, and I've found it really works. I rely on mag for a lot of positive things. And I'm also grateful for this board. :-)

penny

SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote:

Hi Penny - I've got a good B complex, just wasn't paying attention to religiously taking it. I'll check previous blood tests to see if there's anything there about magnesium, potasium, et al. There was just something on TV about bananas, avocado and something else (challenged memory too)high in potassium, oh, citrus. I'll take a little time to parse it all out, analyze my diet. I just wasn't taking the supplement thing very seriously, guess I should have been. Live and learn. Merci - S.

infections From: pennyhoule Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 13:57:29 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

You probably know that bananas are also high in potassium. And they're also a source of B6, although I'm not sure that's the b that's best for nerves. You should research that a little. When it comes to the Bs though, a B complex is generally best because it's hard to get all of the bs balanced correctly (they also antagonize each other, so taking one and not another can cause dangerous imbalances). In addition to the complex, you often need to add B12 seperately to get enough of that, since it's a little different than all the other Bs. Sometimes supplemental B12 is difficult to utilize but I found the B complex to be remarkably effective for my weird nerve symptoms. And don't freak out if your urine turns really dark yellow. Or even green. That's just the excess b's your body doesn't assimilate.

pennyPenny Houle <pennyhoule > wrote:

Getting your mag/cal/potassium ratio right can be tricky if you have no testing to base it on. That's why they sell cal/mag combined as the two antagonize each other (i.e. increasing cal can decrease mag). But I know that many of us with chronic illness are more depleted in mag than cal, so personally I emphasize the mag over calcium. I figure I get enough cal in my food, but definitely not enough magnesium. And potassium is probably a similar kind of thing. I generally think it's best to add them seperately and see how you feel after taking each one to determine how much to take. Unless you get lucky with some kind of multiple, I don't think multis work so well for people like us.

penny

SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote:

Perfect, I've got it in the cupboard. I was so frightened to do the surgery thing because the majority of doctors do not acknowledge that there's anything wrong with me (us) and it terrifies me that something could go very wrong and they'd just stand there and tell me I'm depressed (which is the only thing they can come up with when they don't understand something) as I float off into the next world. You're wonderful - I'm grateful this board is here.

infections From: pennyhoule Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 12:28:28 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

A fantastic source of Potassium is V-8 juice. You get something like 600mg in a glass, and for some FDA reason the maximum you can buy in a capsule form is 99mg. If you're depleted in potassium, then you're going to have to take a lot of capsules. Just sipping on V-8 is a lot easier. I think Brazil nuts also have high levels of mag & potassium & calcium for their size. They're also really high in selenium, another mineral we are often deficient in.

penny

SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote:

Thank you, I'll try it. S.

infections From: colourbleufree (DOT) frDate: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 19:58:40 +0100Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

maybe look into your potassium levels, try a little of it to see if it changes anything or if your very sensitive to it, this can I have found cause symptoms like you describe. Dont take a lot, little bits every day.. s

On 3 Nov 2007, at 19:24, SHELLEY REED wrote:

Thank you, Steve. Question for the group: I have to have drive through surgery in a few weeks and my instincts tell me to stay away from general anesthesia, I've got some really goofy day to day neurological symptoms like numness in hands, and major delay in sensations, like running up a large staircase and not physically needing deep breathing until I'm all the way up and away from the stairs, then my heart starts to pound, etc., brain freeze from frozen food four minutes after eating it. I'm thinking of going with an epidural to try to keep my brain out of it. Is my reasoning somewhat on track? Thank you,

infections From: colourbleufree (DOT) frDate: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 18:18:23 +0100Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

The film is on the torrents if you can download the torrent https://sdlc4a.sun.com:443/ECom/SDMIntegrated

or here

http://torrents.to/search/247/ghost+in+your+genes.html

then you download it with some torrent download software like Azureus

steve

On 3 Nov 2007, at 18:05, SHELLEY REED wrote:

Nothing would make me happier than for the DD to evolve out of existence. I could hardly believe my eyes and ears when I watched that show. I'll see if I can find that link for you. All the best,

infections From: pennyhoule Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 08:28:09 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

"...recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced as well."

That is truly bizarre. I need to see that show. I've always kind of suspected that evolution comes in sudden leaps, in part to respond to environmental changes, not slow steady change as we've been taught. Weird.

penny

p.s. at this rate, we're going to evolve out of this disease before doctors ever figure it out. :-)

SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote:

Hi Tony - I don't have that data with me, I will be able to look it up on Monday and let you know. Warning, I'm not as sophisticated on medical vocabulary as you folks are, but I do know I have data on clotting and RBC, which I believe is what you are referring to. I recall that I was not anemic and I had one clotting figure out of sorts. My father has a clotting disorder which I am trying to get more information on because I think it would help explain the pain if I have inherited that. Also curious to me, he had polio as a young man and recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced as well. I guess we're all longsuffering medical pioneers. I really appreciate the conversations you folks have here, thank you for all your hard work.

infections From: dumbaussie2000 .auDate: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 23:30:19 +0000Subject: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

Just curious, what was your platelet count like?I think often we do run pretty low platelet counts at times which mnay also explain this..tony>> > At the risk of sounding really dumb, I'm a CFS/EBV/FMer, and recently tried taking 200mg of grapeseed extract daily and found it really helped my energy level and pain, and helped me not get a horrible cold that was going through the house. I stopped last week because I had a blood draw in prep for surgery and at least for that day my arm wouldn't stop bleeding without forceful pressure. Which is to say i believe it has blood thinning properties. For what it's worth.> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Tony -

This is where your intellect outpaces mine. I know they'll test for cancer on the spot. How do I get them to submit material to another lab, and do you have any idea what tests I should ask for?Also, regarding platelets, I had a platelet count of 143 (range 140-400) problem of eosinophils of 16 out of range of 15-500, basophils of 8 out of range of 0-200, looks like lymphocytes and neutophils were low as well. I've been supplementing with immune support like Maitake mushroom extract, so hopefully those numbers are a little stronger. But I hope that's what you were asking about.

infections From: dumbaussie2000@...Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 04:56:52 +0000Subject: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

Ask them to get a good culture from these things...And especially to report anything growing, nothing to be dismissed as a contamination...This approach/knowledge may help you in future health concerns..With my logic- I'd be more interested in the toxicity of any organisms, which may or may not be obesrved by minimul lab work ups, but only by labs more like esoterix...>> > At the risk of sounding really dumb, I'm a CFS/EBV/FMer, and recently tried taking 200mg of grapeseed extract daily and found it really helped my energy level and pain, and helped me not get a horrible cold that was going through the house. I stopped last week because I had a blood draw in prep for surgery and at least for that day my arm wouldn't stop bleeding without forceful pressure. Which is to say i believe it has blood thinning properties. For what it's worth.> > > > >>>

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Tony. Unfortunatley I know what you mean. I tried years ago to get HHV6 test on some spinal fluid and they just looked at me like I had three eyes. I'll try again, using those labels and see what I get......

Have a great day -

infections From: dumbaussie2000@...Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 12:14:39 +0000Subject: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing

Doctors and pathology are such a pathetic act. You'll have your cysts removed and will only get a report for 'cancerous tissue', or non 'cancerous tissue'..This is fine information if like many your generally travelling well, but when you need a little more back up information when your not travelling well thru life, you need to push that little harder to get more.. otherwise you'll end up like a, never any wiser after a long stretch of appointments..This basic principal applies to anything we do, because thanks to the net you'll see people time and time again waist many years and often decades non the wiser with there ilness's..In your case you basically want to know if the middle of the cyst contains staph areus, pseudonomas, or any other organisms displaying any toxic tendencies that can possably create these scenario's.ANOTHER WAY OF LOOKING AT THINGS-I don't think the general query by patient's -why is this occuring, THEN - WE DON'T KNOW BY THE DOCTOR.. GETS ANYONE ANYWHERE.. SO TAKE IT A STEP FURTHER WHENEVER OPPURTUNITY PRESENTS IMO..Tony>> > At the risk of sounding really dumb, I'm a CFS/EBV/FMer, and recently tried taking 200mg of grapeseed extract daily and found it really helped my energy level and pain, and helped me not get a horrible cold that was going through the house. I stopped last week because I had a blood draw in prep for surgery and at least for that day my arm wouldn't stop bleeding without forceful pressure. Which is to say i believe it has blood thinning properties. For what it's worth.> > > > >>>>

[Guest guest]

Shoemaker has made some great inroads into our illness, as far as understanding co-infections etc. He definitely believes that staph and mold combined are a big issue, and that if you don't deal with the staph, you can't get the mold to ultimately get well. He also believes there are physiological/genetic factors that make certain people susceptible to mold, primarily low MSH hormone, which can't really be treated at this point in time (until the FDA approves MSH replacement therapy). My only issue with Shoemaker, really, is that he doesn't treat the staph rigorously enough, IMO. For some people, his protocol helps, but I think the staph becomes too easily resistant for his treatment of it, and so patients tend to relapse or not respond at all. He also uses a cholestrol drug to remove toxins, another very important factor of our illness (toxins are the byproducts of the bugs

and are very damaging, moreso than the bugs themselves). While the drug (cholestyramine) seems to work for some, it may have its own set of issues, (not to mention cholesterol itself is complex aspect of our illness). He also uses ACTOS in some cases, which is a blood sugar balancing drug. ACTOS has been known to have serious issues of its own so needs to be considered carefully. It's made some of us very ill, so it's important that you get tested and monitored carefully if you're going to take this drug. Dr. Shoemaker may have adapted his protocol since I've looked into it, but as of a couple years ago, this was the protocol/approach he was using. It's always good to investigate his stuff though and keep track of him, because I believe that Shoemaker is one of the few docs out there who has any kind of understanding/handle on this disease. I also believe that

Stratton/Wheldon are much more on track than most. While they particularly are addressing the organism c.pneumonae, their protocol, in large part, makes a whole lot of sense for most organisms. I'd really recommend looking at their stuff and seriously considering their various therapies to address all the things that come along with a chronic infection. penny SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote: Hi Penny - Okay, I learned two things today. Looked at old

blood tests, yes I'm low on magnesium, potassium okay. So I will be supplementing the magnesium without fail. And I called Soup and asked about MSG in their V-8 and was told none added, but that tomatoes have naturally occuring glutamate. So I think I'll go ahead and use that for a mid-day snack to give myself a boost. Also, another question, I'm curious as to whether anyone here has tried the Shoemaker protocol. I think I remember someone referring to it. He seems to have helped some people, but so far I haven't seen any first-hand testimonies. Thank you! infections From: pennyhoule Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 16:23:28 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing Hi

, For almost 2 years, I experimented with about a thousand supplements and took them religiously. I think most of them were pretty useless, definitely not worth the money I spent on them. :-) But I also think those of us with chronic infections and overworked immune systems become depleted in certain things. Mag and b which are common, and some others like potassium, selenium, etc. I know Barb was big on the electrolyte balance during her recovery, which is basically determined by these essential minerals. It's especially nice when you can relieve symptoms with something as easy and healthy as magnesium. As far as I'm concerned, it's a great mineral. Helps your heart, your intestines, your cells, your nerves, migraines, asthma, just about everything. Mag can even counter the negative effects that cipro can have on some people's

tendons. Someone on this list pointed that out, and I've found it really works. I rely on mag for a lot of positive things. And I'm also grateful for this board. :-) penny SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote: Hi Penny - I've got a good B complex, just wasn't paying attention to religiously taking it. I'll check previous blood tests to see if there's anything there about magnesium, potasium, et al. There was just something on TV about bananas, avocado and something else (challenged memory too)high in potassium, oh, citrus. I'll take a little time to parse it all out, analyze my diet. I just wasn't taking the supplement thing very seriously, guess I should have been. Live and learn. Merci - S. infections From: pennyhoule Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 13:57:29 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing You probably know that bananas are also high in potassium. And they're also a source of B6, although I'm not sure that's the b that's best for nerves. You should research that a little. When it comes to the Bs though, a B complex is generally best because it's hard to get all of the bs balanced correctly (they also antagonize each other, so taking one and not another can cause dangerous imbalances). In addition to the complex, you often need to add B12 seperately to get enough of that, since it's a little different than all the other Bs. Sometimes supplemental B12 is difficult to utilize but I found the B

complex to be remarkably effective for my weird nerve symptoms. And don't freak out if your urine turns really dark yellow. Or even green. That's just the excess b's your body doesn't assimilate. pennyPenny Houle <pennyhoule > wrote: Getting your mag/cal/potassium ratio right can be tricky if you have no testing to base it on. That's why they sell cal/mag combined as the two antagonize each other (i.e. increasing cal can decrease mag). But I know that many of us with chronic illness are more depleted in mag than cal, so personally I emphasize the mag over calcium. I figure I get enough cal in my food, but definitely not enough magnesium. And potassium is probably a similar kind of thing. I generally think it's best to add them seperately and

see how you feel after taking each one to determine how much to take. Unless you get lucky with some kind of multiple, I don't think multis work so well for people like us. penny SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote: Perfect, I've got it in the cupboard. I was so frightened to do the surgery thing because the majority of doctors do not acknowledge that there's anything wrong with me (us) and it terrifies me that something could go very wrong and they'd just stand there and tell me I'm depressed (which is the only thing they can come up with when they don't understand something) as I float off into the next world. You're wonderful - I'm grateful this board is here. To:

infections From: pennyhoule Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 12:28:28 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing A fantastic source of Potassium is V-8 juice. You get something like 600mg in a glass, and for some FDA reason the maximum you can buy in a capsule form is 99mg. If you're depleted in potassium, then you're going to have to take a lot of capsules. Just sipping on V-8 is a lot easier. I think Brazil nuts also have high levels of mag & potassium & calcium for their size. They're also really high in selenium, another mineral we are often deficient in. penny SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote: Thank you, I'll try it. S. infections From: colourbleufree (DOT) frDate: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 19:58:40 +0100Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing maybe look into your potassium levels, try a little of it to see if it changes anything or if your very sensitive to it, this can I have found cause symptoms like you describe. Dont take a lot, little bits every day.. s On 3 Nov 2007, at 19:24, SHELLEY REED wrote: Thank you, Steve. Question for the group: I have to have drive through surgery in a few weeks and my instincts tell me to stay away from general anesthesia, I've got some really goofy day to day neurological symptoms like numness in hands, and major delay in sensations, like running up a large staircase and not physically needing deep breathing until I'm all the way up and away from the stairs, then my heart starts to pound, etc., brain freeze from frozen food four minutes after eating it. I'm thinking of going with an epidural to try to keep

my brain out of it. Is my reasoning somewhat on track? Thank you, infections From: colourbleufree (DOT) frDate: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 18:18:23 +0100Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing The film is on the torrents if you can download the torrent https://sdlc4a.sun.com:443/ECom/SDMIntegrated or here http://torrents.to/search/247/ghost+in+your+genes.html then you download it with some torrent download software like Azureus steve On 3 Nov 2007, at 18:05, SHELLEY REED wrote: Nothing would

make me happier than for the DD to evolve out of existence. I could hardly believe my eyes and ears when I watched that show. I'll see if I can find that link for you. All the best, infections From: pennyhoule Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 08:28:09 -0700Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing "...recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than

genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced as well." That is truly bizarre. I need to see that show. I've always kind of suspected that evolution comes in sudden leaps, in part to respond to environmental changes, not slow steady change as we've been taught. Weird. penny p.s. at this rate, we're going to evolve out of this disease before doctors ever figure it out. :-) SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote: Hi Tony - I don't have that data with me, I will be able to look it up on Monday and let you know. Warning, I'm not as sophisticated on medical vocabulary as you folks are, but I do know I have data on clotting and RBC, which I believe is what you are referring to. I recall that I was not anemic and I had one clotting figure out of sorts. My father has a clotting disorder which I am trying to get more information on because I think it would help explain the pain if I have inherited that. Also curious to me, he had polio as a young man and recently

Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced as well. I guess we're all longsuffering medical pioneers. I really appreciate the conversations you folks have here, thank you for all your hard work. infections From: dumbaussie2000 .auDate: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 23:30:19 +0000Subject: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on coagulation testing Just curious, what was your platelet count like?I think often we do run pretty low platelet counts at times which mnay also explain this..tony>> > At the risk of sounding really dumb, I'm a CFS/EBV/FMer, and recently tried taking 200mg of grapeseed extract daily and found it really helped my energy level and pain, and helped me not get a horrible cold that was going through the house. I stopped last week because I had a blood draw in prep for surgery and at least for that day my arm wouldn't stop bleeding without forceful pressure. Which is to say i believe it has blood thinning properties. For what it's worth.> > > > >

[Guest guest]

My wife was put on

Shoemaker's about 2 years ago (not by Shoemaker himself but by another

doc in close touch with him) and at that time it was still CSM and

Actos.

Actos is given to reduce herx-like symptoms when present.

For some reason my wife had raging fevers from CSM. It is something

this doc hadn't seen before.

Actos made her worse in that regard, not better.

Fortunately the doc in question had the brains to shrug, take her off

the protocol and move on to something else.

--Bob

Penny Houle wrote:

Shoemaker has made some great inroads into our illness, as far

as understanding co-infections etc. He definitely believes that staph

and mold combined are a big issue, and that if you don't deal with the

staph, you can't get the mold to ultimately get well. He also believes

there are physiological/genetic factors that make certain people

susceptible to mold, primarily low MSH hormone, which can't really be

treated at this point in time (until the FDA approves MSH replacement

therapy).

My only issue with Shoemaker, really, is that he doesn't treat

the staph rigorously enough, IMO. For some people, his protocol helps,

but I think the staph becomes too easily resistant for his treatment of

it, and so patients tend to relapse or not respond at all.

He also uses a cholestrol drug to remove toxins, another very

important factor of our illness (toxins are the byproducts o f the bugs

and are very damaging, moreso than the bugs themselves). While the

drug (cholestyramine) seems to work for some, it may have its own set

of issues, (not to mention cholesterol itself is complex aspect of our

illness). He also uses ACTOS in some cases, which is a blood sugar

balancing drug. ACTOS has been known to have serious issues of its own

so needs to be considered carefully. It's made some of us very ill, so

it's important that you get tested and monitored carefully if you're

going to take this drug.

Dr. Shoemaker may have adapted his protocol since I've looked

into it, but as of a couple years ago, this was the protocol/approach

he was using. It's always good to investigate his stuff though and keep

track of him, because I believe that Shoemaker is one of the few docs

out there who has any kind of understanding/handle on this disease.

I also believe that Stratton/Wheldon are much more on track than

most. While they particularly are addressing the organism c.pneumonae,

their protocol, in large part, makes a whole lot of sense for most

organisms. I'd really recommend looking at their stuff and seriously

considering their various therapies to address all the things that come

along with a chronic infection.

penny

SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote:

Hi Penny -

Okay, I learned two things today. Looked at old blood tests, yes I'm

low on magnesium, potassium okay. So I will be supplementing the

magnesium without fail. And I called Soup and asked about MSG

in their V-8 and was told none added, but that tomatoes have naturally

occuring glutamate. So I think I'll go ahead and use that for a

mid-day snack to give myself a boost.

Also, another question, I'm curious as to whether anyone here has tried

the Shoemaker protocol. I think I remember someone referring to it.

He seems to have helped some people, but so far I haven't seen any

first-hand testimonies.

Thank you!

infections

From: pennyhoule

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 16:23:28 -0700

Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on

coagulation testing

Hi ,

For almost 2 years, I experimented with about a thousand

supplements and took them religiously. I think most of them were pretty

useless, definitely not worth the money I spent on them. :-)

But I also think those of us with chronic infections and

overworked immune systems become depleted in certain things. Mag and b

which are common, and some others like potassium, selenium, etc. I know

Barb was big on the electrolyte balance during her recovery, which is

basically determined by these essential minerals.

It's especially nice when you can relieve symptoms with

something as easy and healthy as magnesium. As far as I'm concerned,

it's a great mineral. Helps your heart, your intestines, your cells,

your nerves, migraines, asthma, just about everything. Mag can even

counter the negative effects that cipro can have on some people's

tendons. Someone on this list pointed that out, and I've found it

really works. I rely on mag for a lot of positive things. And I'm also

grateful for this board. :-)

penny

SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote:

Hi Penny -

I've got a good B complex, just wasn't paying attention to religiously

taking it. I'll check previous blood tests to see if there's anything

there about magnesium, potasium, et al. There was just something on TV

about bananas, avocado and something else (challenged memory too)high

in potassium, oh, citrus. I'll take a little time to parse it all out,

analyze my diet. I just wasn't taking the supplement thing very

seriously, guess I should have been. Live and learn.

Merci -

S.

infections

From: pennyhoule

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 13:57:29 -0700

Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on

coagulation testing

You probably know that bananas are also high in

potassium. And they're also a source of B6, although I'm not sure

that's the b that's best for nerves. You should research that a little.

When it comes to the Bs though, a B complex is generally best because

it's hard to get all of the bs balanced correctly (they also antagonize

each other, so taking one and not another can cause dangerous

imbalances). In addition to the complex, you often need to add B12

seperately to get enough of that, since it's a little different than

all the other Bs. Sometimes supplemental B12 is difficult to utilize

but I found the B complex to be remarkably effective for my weird nerve

symptoms. And don't freak out if your urine turns really dark yellow.

Or even green. That's just the excess b's your body doesn't assimilate.

penny

Penny Houle <pennyhoule >

wrote:

Getting your mag/cal/potassium ratio right can be

tricky if you have no testing to base it on. That's why they sell

cal/mag combined as the two antagonize each other (i.e. increasing cal

can decrease mag). But I know that many of us with chronic illness

are more depleted in mag than cal, so personally I emphasize the mag

over calcium. I figure I get enough cal in my food, but definitely not

enough magnesium. And potassium is probably a similar kind of thing. I

generally think it's best to add them seperately a nd see how you feel

after taking each one to determine how much to take. Unless you get

lucky with some kind of multiple, I don't think multis work so well for

people like us.

penny

SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote:

Perfect, I've got it in the cupboard. I was so frightened to do the

surgery thing because the majority of doctors do not acknowledge that

there's anything wrong with me (us) and it terrifies me that something

could go very wrong and they'd just stand there and tell me I'm

depressed (which is the only thing they can come up with when they

don't understand something) as I float off into the next world.

You're wonderful - I'm grateful this board is here.

infections

From: pennyhoule

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 12:28:28 -0700

Subject: RE: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on

coagulation testing

A fantastic source of Potassium is V-8 juice. You

get something like 600mg in a glass, and for some FDA reason the

maximum you can buy in a capsule form is 99mg. If you're depleted in

potassium, then you're going to have to take a lot of capsules. Just

sipping on V-8 is a lot easier. I think Brazil nuts also have high

levels of mag & potassium & calcium for their size. They're

also really high in selenium, another mineral we are often

deficient in.

penny

SHELLEY REED <sreedp@...> wrote:

Thank you, I'll try it.

S.

infections

From: colourbleufree (DOT) fr

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 19:58:40 +0100

Subject: Re: [infections] Re: Preliminary report on

coagulation testing

maybe look into

your potassium levels, try a little of it to see if it changes anything

or if your very sensitive to it, this can I have found cause symptoms

like you describe. Dont take a lot, little bits every day..

s

On 3 Nov 2007, at 19:24, SHELLEY REED wrote:

Thank you, Steve.

Question for the group: I have to have drive through surgery in a few

weeks and my instincts tell me to stay away from general anesthesia,

I've got some really goofy day to day neurological symptoms like

numness in hands, and major delay in sensations, like running up a

large staircase and not physically needing deep breathing until I'm all

the way up and away from the stairs, then my heart starts to pound,

etc., brain freeze from frozen food four minutes after eating it. I'm

thinking of going with an epidural to try to keep my brain out of it.

Is my reasoning somewhat on track?

Thank you,

infections

From: colourbleufree (DOT) fr

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007

18:18:23 +0100

Subject: Re:

[infections] Re:

Preliminary report on coagulation testing

The film is on the

torrents if you can download the torrent

https://sdlc4a.sun.com:443/ECom/SDMIntegrated

or here

http://torrents.to/search/247/ghost+in+your+genes.html

then you download it

with some torrent download software like Azureus

steve

On 3 Nov 2007, at

18:05, SHELLEY REED wrote:

Nothing would make me

happier than for the DD to evolve out of existence. I could hardly

believe my eyes and ears when I watched that show. I'll see if I can

find that link for you.

All the best,

infections

From: pennyhoule

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007

08:28:09 -0700

Subject:

RE: [infections] Re:

Preliminary report on coagulation testing

"...recently

Nova (PBS) had a show about how we inherit more than genes from our

parents, that we can inheret any physical insults that they experienced

as well."

That is truly bizarre.

I need to see that show. I've always kind of suspected that evolution

comes in sudden leaps, in part to respond to environmental changes, not

slow steady change as we've been taught. Weird.

penny

p.s. at this rate,

we're going to evolve out of this disease before doctors ever figure it

out. :-)

SHELLEY

REED <sreedp@...> wrote:

Hi Tony -

I don't have that data

with me, I will be able to look it up on Monday and let you know.

Warning, I'm not as sophisticated on medical vocabulary as you folks

are, but I do know I have data on clotting and RBC, which I believe is

what you are referring to. I recall that I was not anemic and I had

one clotting figure out of sorts. My father has a clotting disorder

which I am trying to get more information on because I think it would

help explain the pain if I have inherited that. Also curious to me, he

had polio as a young man and recently Nova (PBS) had a show about how

we inherit more than genes from our parents, that we can inheret any

physical insults that they experienced as well.

I guess we're all

longsuffering medical pioneers. I really appreciate the conversations

you folks have here, thank you for all your hard work.

infections

From: dumbaussie2000 .au

< SPAN

class="EC_EC_EC_EC_Apple-style-span" style="FONT-SIZE:

13px;FONT-FAMILY: Georgia;">Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 23:30:19 +0000

Subject:

[infections] Re:

Preliminary report on coagulation testing

Just curious, what was

your platelet count like?I think often we do

run pretty low platelet

counts at times which mnay also explain this..

tony

--- In infections , SHELLEY REED

<sreedp@...>

wrote:

>

>

> At the risk of

sounding really dumb, I'm a CFS/EBV/FMer, and

recently tried taking

200mg of grapeseed extract daily and found it

really helped my energy

level and pain, and helped me not get a

horrible cold that was

going through the house. I stopped last week

because I had a blood

draw in prep for surgery and at least for that

day my arm wouldn't

stop bleeding without forceful pressure. Which

is to say i believe it

has blood thinning properties. For what it's

worth.

>

>

>

>

>