Re: What is wrong with Amy Proal?

[Guest guest]

I didn't cut her any slack after the last 2 posts.

She's un-informed - and parroting dogma from her guru.

I didn't quite say it like that- but she's a follower.. using the

words " we " and " the patients " ...and TOTALLY mis-informed about the

true meaning of herx.

I think that protocol is responsible for the bastardizing of the

meaning of that reaction... that's probably why I just can't let

their posts go by too long.

To quote Rumsfield.. " There are some things that you just don't know

that you don't know. " . That's where she's at.

It's tiring.

Barb

>

> Barb & Penny thanks for coming to lymenet.

> I don't understand why she couldn't have just stayed on the MP site.

> Her posts are absolutely flabbergasting.

> Someone posts that in her small support group 3 people on MP had

> serious issues with kidneys or hypotension--one had kidney damage

that

> took 8 months to repair.

> Another person named Joyce starts a thread about Vitamin D and brain

> lesions.

> They are like cultists.

> There is *no* such thing as a bad reaction or side effect. It is all

> herx. Those poor folks had high pathogen loads in their kidneys.

These

> people have absolutely no reaction to the fact that others were

> severely damaged. They seem sociopathic--there is no concern, it

> doesn't even register, they are so hypnotized.

>

> She even posts that Vitamin D doesn't have to be high--

(inflammatory),

> that the protocol works no matter what.

>

> Benicar, is switching on the innate immune system!

>

> The science they quote is shoddy or else Marshall endlessly.

>

> I'm disgusted so venting here.

> They should have stayed off lymenet.

> In addition several have requested she change the header of her

thread

> and eliminate the word " cure "

>

> When I asked if ANYBODY had gone off their drugs and stayed well, it

> was ignored. One person posted its too early for lyme.

>

> Why come on and promote the protocol in the first place?

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Barb.

I know she's ill informed, can't digest science, and yes, is a

mouthpiece for Marshall. She doesn't even understand the questions I'm

asking.

What astounds me is, people can nearly die, or have serious organ

damage, and these people are absolutely blithely unmoved by it. It's

all " herx " .

It's a religion, not a science.

> >

> > Barb & Penny thanks for coming to lymenet.

> > I don't understand why she couldn't have just stayed on the MP site.

> > Her posts are absolutely flabbergasting.

> > Someone posts that in her small support group 3 people on MP had

> > serious issues with kidneys or hypotension--one had kidney damage

> that

> > took 8 months to repair.

> > Another person named Joyce starts a thread about Vitamin D and brain

> > lesions.

> > They are like cultists.

> > There is *no* such thing as a bad reaction or side effect. It is all

> > herx. Those poor folks had high pathogen loads in their kidneys.

> These

> > people have absolutely no reaction to the fact that others were

> > severely damaged. They seem sociopathic--there is no concern, it

> > doesn't even register, they are so hypnotized.

> >

> > She even posts that Vitamin D doesn't have to be high--

> (inflammatory),

> > that the protocol works no matter what.

> >

> > Benicar, is switching on the innate immune system!

> >

> > The science they quote is shoddy or else Marshall endlessly.

> >

> > I'm disgusted so venting here.

> > They should have stayed off lymenet.

> > In addition several have requested she change the header of her

> thread

> > and eliminate the word " cure "

> >

> > When I asked if ANYBODY had gone off their drugs and stayed well, it

> > was ignored. One person posted its too early for lyme.

> >

> > Why come on and promote the protocol in the first place?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Amy and Joyce both have science degrees. Along with Dr. Greg Blaney, I think they deserve respect - not because they have degrees, but because they are decent and smart and open to reason. You may have noticed at LymeNet that a friend of mine's daughter has done exceptionally well on the MP. None of us knows how to cure Lyme or the other infections we are dealing with.

a Carnes with a headache

[Guest guest]

I'd rather sites allow people to share controversial ideas than not...WITH disclaimers, please. But what's truly unfortunate here is that this cult like rationalization and denial nullifies any potential the drugs on the MP may actually have, in particular Benicar and the ARB class of drugs. The behavior by some of the faithful is so extreme and unscientific that it casts doubt on all of it. It puts any legitimate aspects of the protocol, like the role inflammation plays in our illness symptoms, far, far on the back burner. It's the same exact thing the NICO docs have done to people with jaw infections. Casting so much doubt with their questionable practices that people can't get legitimate help from mainstream docs. NICO's biggest leader, Wes Shankland, was recently reprimanded and fined by the medical board and stripped of his ability to practice medicine for 6

months. Some of his cohorts, medical and non-medical alike, have been sued as well. The recent suspension and fine came about because of one injured person rallying other injured people and protesting loudly enough to the medical board. If the MP folks aren't careful, they could find themselves in the same position. They can continue to censor what's posted on their message board, but they can't censor what's reported to the medical board. If the MP devotees continue down this extremist path it will catch up with them. At the very least they will find themselves more and more ostracized by the mainstream. But based on the reckless disregard for people's negative reports, I foresee something much worse in the way of consequences for these folks. I just hope that someone with a more sensible approach will

pick up on the parts of the protocol that have potential and sort it out to the point where people take notice. Fortunately, the pharmaceutical companies are all over the ARBs for their anti-inflammatory and anti-aging mechanisms. I hope they come out with something soon and we can put the rest of this fiasco behind us. penny Barb Peck <egroups1bp@...> wrote: I didn't cut her any slack after the last 2

posts.She's un-informed - and parroting dogma from her guru.I didn't quite say it like that- but she's a follower.. using the words "we" and "the patients"...and TOTALLY mis-informed about the true meaning of herx.I think that protocol is responsible for the bastardizing of the meaning of that reaction... that's probably why I just can't let their posts go by too long.To quote Rumsfield.. " There are some things that you just don't know that you don't know.". That's where she's at.It's tiring.Barb>> Barb & Penny thanks for coming to lymenet.> I don't understand why she couldn't have just stayed on the MP site.> Her posts are absolutely flabbergasting.> Someone posts that in her small

support group 3 people on MP had> serious issues with kidneys or hypotension--one had kidney damage that> took 8 months to repair.> Another person named Joyce starts a thread about Vitamin D and brain> lesions.> They are like cultists.> There is *no* such thing as a bad reaction or side effect. It is all> herx. Those poor folks had high pathogen loads in their kidneys. These> people have absolutely no reaction to the fact that others were> severely damaged. They seem sociopathic--there is no concern, it> doesn't even register, they are so hypnotized.> > She even posts that Vitamin D doesn't have to be high--(inflammatory),> that the protocol works no matter what. > > Benicar, is switching on the innate immune system!> > The science they quote is shoddy or else Marshall endlessly.> > I'm disgusted so venting

here.> They should have stayed off lymenet.> In addition several have requested she change the header of her thread> and eliminate the word "cure"> > When I asked if ANYBODY had gone off their drugs and stayed well, it> was ignored. One person posted its too early for lyme.> > Why come on and promote the protocol in the first place?>

[Guest guest]

a, the antihistamines and decongestants have been tremendously helpful with my headaches. I've only had one slight migraine in the last few weeks now, and I was able to abort it quickly. If I were you, I'd definitely experiment with anti-allergy meds. When my daughter had daily migraines, the first thing they did was test her for allergies. The antihistamine Benadryl is a known migraine preventative. I would never have guessed that I would develop allergies, but apparently I have and the headaches are a result. The allergic reactions are probably a side effect of the infection and an overworked immune system. Also, I know how much you hate Cipro, but I started taking it again, and the results have been miraculous once again. I stopped last time because of tendon issues. And this time I had an immediate increase in body pain which I can definitely attribute to the Cipro. But my sinuses have cleared up, my

allergies are way down, AND my energy level is way up. The tendon thing is a calculated risk which I am willing to take. I'm just very careful with my body, about lifting things, etc. And fortunately, I've found that magnesium definitely ameliorates the body pain. Very effectively. So I feel I have a cushion of protection as long as I take the magnesium in fairly large doses. I'm not suggesting you take Cipro. But I do believe you've got an infection in your head or sinuses, whether your docs see it or not, and you need to find someway to address it. After my sinus surgery, my doc told me my sinuses were clear too. But I told her I knew something was in there. I actually had an earache from it. Sure enough, she put a microscope up there and pulled out a large mucous plug which was putting pressure on my ear. A large blockage she couldn't see until she anesthisized me and went up there. If it hadn't

been removed, I know it would have quickly led to yet another infected sinus. Even when my sinuses seem okay, if I do some betadine with Xylitol rinses, it's remarkable what washes out. Xylitol doesn't allow stuff to stick to the sinus walls, and the result is large globs of goo being unstuck. Not fun to get out of there, but certainly informative about the state of my head. And clear to see why various symptoms develop when you've got what amounts to large chunks of glue blocking your sinus passages. penny a Carnes <pj7@...> wrote: Amy and Joyce both have science degrees. Along with Dr. Greg Blaney, I think they deserve respect - not because they have degrees, but because they are decent and smart and open to reason. You may have noticed at LymeNet that a friend of mine's daughter has done exceptionally well on the MP. None of us knows how to cure Lyme or the other infections we are dealing with. a Carnes with a headache

[Guest guest]

What is your betadine & xylotil formula, Penny? (Ie ratio, and is

there water included?) How much do you use? And how do you get it up,

via a neti pot? How does it get into your sinuses rather than nasal

passages?

Thanks.

And I agree with you about MP. A few have done really well. Others

have come close to organ failure. There seems to be a need among

people who create and promote a protocol to see it as a universal

" cure " . I have seen that word used by protocol inventors & their

acolytes with salt/c, with Rich Van's methylation protocol, and with

MP. Everybody's infection load, genetics, immune profile is different.

So I really appreciate you, Barb & whomever Kelli is setting the

record straight so there is a full picture. Amy's posts see the MP as

an unalloyed good and all side effects no matter how dangerous as

herxheimers due to a high pathogen load of CWD bacteria. Fungi and

virii are not really considered, except as the result of immune

suppression from CWD.

> Amy and Joyce both have science degrees. Along with Dr.

Greg Blaney, I think they deserve respect - not because they have

degrees, but because they are decent and smart and open to reason. You

may have noticed at LymeNet that a friend of mine's daughter has done

exceptionally well on the MP. None of us knows how to cure Lyme or the

other infections we are dealing with.

>

> a Carnes with a headache

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know why, but I'm not getting some of these messages. The

spammers manage to get through just fine, however. I suppose if it

wasn't for them, I wouldn't have come to I & I to delete 'em, and

subsequently see that someone had asked me about the betadine/xylitol

ratio.

I'm going to just copy an email response that I sent to someone else

who also asked privately.

In the Hydropulse, which I think holds a pint [of water], I use a 1/2

tsp of salt (actually a bit less), a 1/2 tsp of betadine (sometimes

more) and at least 3/4 of a tsp of xylitol. I use a little less salt

than normally called for because more stings. It may be an individual

thing but I know there's no need for it to burn. To start with it

might just be easier to use equal parts of everything and then adjust

it as desired.

Hope it helps you. If you don't have a Hydropulse, I highly recommend

it. It's so much easier than a neti pot. I used to use warm water

too, but I've actually found that room temp water (which feels cool)

works better for me. Seems to calm any inflammation I may be

experiencing in the sinuses.

penny

> > Amy and Joyce both have science degrees. Along with

Dr.

> Greg Blaney, I think they deserve respect - not because they have

> degrees, but because they are decent and smart and open to reason.

You

> may have noticed at LymeNet that a friend of mine's daughter has

done

> exceptionally well on the MP. None of us knows how to cure Lyme or

the

> other infections we are dealing with.

> >

> > a Carnes with a headache

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Penny.

It sounds natural and that is good.

I am not sure how it gets into the sinus.

After a lot of demolition in my building and many serious leaks and

floods, eight in my own apartment, some going down 8 floors of the

building at a time! as old pipes burst, many of us developed some

sinus issues. Mine are slowly getting better but sometimes flare up.

Thanks again.

>

> I don't know why, but I'm not getting some of these messages. The

> spammers manage to get through just fine, however. I suppose if it

> wasn't for them, I wouldn't have come to I & I to delete 'em, and

> subsequently see that someone had asked me about the betadine/xylitol

> ratio.

>

> I'm going to just copy an email response that I sent to someone else

> who also asked privately.

>

> In the Hydropulse, which I think holds a pint [of water], I use a 1/2

> tsp of salt (actually a bit less), a 1/2 tsp of betadine (sometimes

> more) and at least 3/4 of a tsp of xylitol. I use a little less salt

> than normally called for because more stings. It may be an individual

> thing but I know there's no need for it to burn. To start with it

> might just be easier to use equal parts of everything and then adjust

> it as desired.

>

> Hope it helps you. If you don't have a Hydropulse, I highly recommend

> it. It's so much easier than a neti pot. I used to use warm water

> too, but I've actually found that room temp water (which feels cool)

> works better for me. Seems to calm any inflammation I may be

> experiencing in the sinuses.

>

> penny

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Amy and Joyce both have science degrees. Along with Dr. Greg Blaney,

I think

> they deserve respect - not because they have degrees, but because

they are

> decent and smart and open to reason. You may have noticed at LymeNet

that a

> friend of mine's daughter has done exceptionally well on the MP.

None of us

> knows how to cure Lyme or the other infections we are dealing with.

>

> a Carnes with a headache

>

a,

Thank you for saying this.

I am impressed that you go

against the group-think here.

Roy

[Guest guest]

So, Roy, how are you doing? I was just in New England where everyone

seemed to be fine. My relatives there don't seem to have Lyme

disease. It makes me feel like a freak. I would worry about it but my

headache is too bad.

a Carnes

> >

> > Amy and Joyce both have science degrees. Along with Dr. Greg

Blaney,

> I think

> > they deserve respect - not because they have degrees, but because

> they are

> > decent and smart and open to reason. You may have noticed at

LymeNet

> that a

> > friend of mine's daughter has done exceptionally well on the MP.

> None of us

> > knows how to cure Lyme or the other infections we are dealing

with.

> >

> > a Carnes with a headache

> >

> a,

> Thank you for saying this.

> I am impressed that you go

> against the group-think here.

> Roy

>