Re: Re: Not to open a pandora's box on MP, but here it goes:::eye inflammation:::

December 28, 2007

please tony tell me how to do this, i would love to know.steveOn 28 Dec 2007, at 20:36, dumbaussie2000 wrote:GregA good place to start would be to stick a swab in your ear and culture it..There's no point undertakintg any treatment without a hint of what may be causing what your going thru and gett8ing a best drug tip by doing culture and sensitivity.>> Hey everybody,> > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on the> infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in this direction by> a very helpful man, . 's website, email correspondence, and> subsequent links and information made me open to the idea, if not> entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation is infectious in> nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but research and have> come to a few realizations.> > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of the sclera) 3> years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, and throat> infection. I am in the category of those dealing with scleritis who do> not show signs of an underlying disease causing the inflammation. > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: episodes of sun> poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested in the possible> role of VitD and the MP. > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the same side in> which my ear infections over the last few years have been more severe.> When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes are worse making> me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial infection.> > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much worse than it has> ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria have been> multiplying. > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from reading here and other> sources that most are in agreement that chronic inflammation is fueled> by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone (I am currently> tapering), and push by my doctors to go on methotrexate if> inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate my infection and> inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is how to fight> the underlying infection. > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read about Dr.> Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the protocol, the more> doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of long term low> dose antibiotic treatment. > > Are the members here in any agreement as to the best way to treat> chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ minocycline and VitD> avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could very likely> have fungal infections or coinfections that would require other> stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might be a good idea> to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see how my inflammation> responds. > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, to test my> response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel as though it is> going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD reduction coincides with> prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any thoughts or> suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can beat this thing, but I> could really use some help. Thanks for listening everybody, and let me> know what you think. > > Greg>

December 28, 2007

no seriouspls tell me step by step, GF has a throat infection for 2 years, tried to kill it with a few abx, not worked so far, 5 ent later were no where. She wont even go back to the bastardsI found a lab that would culture it but they were arses on the phone insisting we had an ID doc refer her. i know its easy ish, just need to know processesthankssOn 28 Dec 2007, at 20:54, dumbaussie2000 wrote:Steve are you joking or what?Do you think that tyhe bacteria in and around the eye, ear even, are invisable and you need to do something special to discover the pseudonomads, staph epi are irrelevant in the region?tony> > >> > > Hey everybody,> > >> > > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on the> > > infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in this direction> > by> > > a very helpful man, . 's website, email correspondence, and> > > subsequent links and information made me open to the idea, if not> > > entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation is infectious> > in> > > nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but research and> > have> > > come to a few realizations.> > >> > > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of the sclera) 3> > > years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, and throat> > > infection. I am in the category of those dealing with scleritis who> > do> > > not show signs of an underlying disease causing the inflammation.> > >> > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: episodes of sun> > > poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested in the> > possible> > > role of VitD and the MP.> > >> > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the same side in> > > which my ear infections over the last few years have been more> > severe.> > > When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes are worse making> > > me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial infection.> > >> > > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much worse than it> > has> > > ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria have been> > > multiplying.> > >> > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from reading here and> > other> > > sources that most are in agreement that chronic inflammation is> > fueled> > > by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone (I am> > currently> > > tapering), and push by my doctors to go on methotrexate if> > > inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate my infection and> > > inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is how to fight> > > the underlying infection.> > >> > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read about Dr.> > > Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the protocol, the more> > > doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of long term low> > > dose antibiotic treatment.> > >> > > Are the members here in any agreement as to the best way to treat> > > chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ minocycline and> > VitD> > > avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could very likely> > > have fungal infections or coinfections that would require other> > > stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might be a good> > idea> > > to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see how my> > inflammation> > > responds.> > >> > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, to test my> > > response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel as though it is> > > going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD reduction coincides> > with> > > prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any thoughts or> > > suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can beat this thing, but I> > > could really use some help. Thanks for listening everybody, and let> > me> > > know what you think.> > >> > > Greg> > >> >> >> >>

December 29, 2007

Zitro and Minicin are only 2 of the the tools in the box. Biaxin, Cipro, Flaygl, lamisil, etc. should all be considered. One needs to learn about the tools that are available.a" but it seems to me that would not be the obvious diagosis with eye inflammation."Cpn is a well known eye infector! On 29 Dec 2007, at 03:07, pjeanneus wrote:Greg,I disagree with Tony aka Dumbaussie, that it is easy for us laymen to find out what bacteria we are infected with. I do agree with Tony that inflammation indicates undiagnosed infection. It may be c. pneumonia, but it seems to me that would not be the obvious diagosis with eye inflammation.I want to make a middle of the road suggestion to you. Forget about avoiding D and sun. Try the antibiotics Marshall suggests instead. If your doctor is willing to subject you to methotrexate, then he should be willing to try minocycline which is approved to treat rheumatoid arthritis BECAUSE IT REDUCES INFLAMMATION. He may also be willing to prescribe Zithromax because it also reduces inflammation. Both of these antibiotics are effective against a number of bacteria. If you get a bad reaction with the minocycline reduce the dose to about 100 mg every third day for awhile.You may need to taper off the prednisone as well. Assuming you have an infection, of course, prednisone is the worst thing you could be taking, but you still can't stop it all at once.Personally I think what works on the MP are the antibiotics, not the D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. Who knows.a Carnes>> Hey everybody,> > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on the> infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in this direction by> a very helpful man, . 's website, email correspondence, and> subsequent links and information made me open to the idea, if not> entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation is infectious in> nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but research and have> come to a few realizations.> > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of the sclera) 3> years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, and throat> infection. I am in the category of those dealing with scleritis who do> not show signs of an underlying disease causing the inflammation. > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: episodes of sun> poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested in the possible> role of VitD and the MP. > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the same side in> which my ear infections over the last few years have been more severe.> When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes are worse making> me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial infection.> > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much worse than it has> ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria have been> multiplying. > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from reading here and other> sources that most are in agreement that chronic inflammation is fueled> by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone (I am currently> tapering), and push by my doctors to go on methotrexate if> inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate my infection and> inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is how to fight> the underlying infection. > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read about Dr.> Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the protocol, the more> doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of long term low> dose antibiotic treatment. > > Are the members here in any agreement as to the best way to treat> chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ minocycline and VitD> avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could very likely> have fungal infections or coinfections that would require other> stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might be a good idea> to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see how my inflammation> responds. > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, to test my> response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel as though it is> going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD reduction coincides with> prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any thoughts or> suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can beat this thing, but I> could really use some help. Thanks for listening everybody, and let me> know what you think. > > Greg>

December 29, 2007

Tony, It's not a joke. We tell you all the time how very difficult it is to find doctors willing to culture anything. Even the ones who should know better. The trick is finding an appropriate condition and a doctor willing to do it. They exist, just few and far between. I think it takes a lot of sleuthing but you can probably eventually find a doctor who does cultures related to his own practical experience and disease theories, or because of research he's doing, possibly an eye specialist in Greg's case. I say that because before I knew I was dealing with a chronic infection, I knew an engineer studying sculpture who was going deaf and knew he wouldn't be able to work his real job much longer. He'd been to all the top specialists and they all said the condition was degenerative and incurable. There was one exception. A researcher at UCSD who believed his kind of hearing

loss was due to an infection. He was conducting a study which involved injecting antibiotics directly into the innermost parts of the ear. My friend decided not to do it as he felt it was "too risky". I wish I knew then what I know now. It would have been a "risk" well worth taking and perhaps he wouldn't be completely deaf now. penny dumbaussie2000 <dumbaussie2000@...> wrote: Steve are you joking or what?Do you think that tyhe bacteria in and around the eye, ear even,

are invisable and you need to do something special to discover the pseudonomads, staph epi are irrelevant in the region?tony> > >> > > Hey everybody,> > >> > > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on the> > > infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in this direction> > by> > > a very helpful man, . 's website, email correspondence, and> > > subsequent links and information made me open to the idea, if not> > > entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation is infectious> > in> > > nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but research and> > have> > > come to a few realizations.> > >> > > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of the sclera) 3> > > years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, and throat> > > infection. I am in the category of those dealing with scleritis

who> > do> > > not show signs of an underlying disease causing the inflammation.> > >> > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: episodes of sun> > > poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested in the> > possible> > > role of VitD and the MP.> > >> > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the same side in> > > which my ear infections over the last few years have been more> > severe.> > > When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes are worse making> > > me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial infection.> > >> > > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much worse than it> > has> > > ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria have been> > > multiplying.> >

>> > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from reading here and> > other> > > sources that most are in agreement that chronic inflammation is> > fueled> > > by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone (I am> > currently> > > tapering), and push by my doctors to go on methotrexate if> > > inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate my infection and> > > inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is how to fight> > > the underlying infection.> > >> > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read about Dr.> > > Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the protocol, the more> > > doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of long term low> > > dose antibiotic treatment.> > >> > > Are the members

here in any agreement as to the best way to treat> > > chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ minocycline and> > VitD> > > avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could very likely> > > have fungal infections or coinfections that would require other> > > stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might be a good> > idea> > > to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see how my> > inflammation> > > responds.> > >> > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, to test my> > > response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel as though it is> > > going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD reduction coincides> > with> > > prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any thoughts or> > > suggestions? I do believe that

somehow I can beat this thing, but I> > > could really use some help. Thanks for listening everybody, and let> > me> > > know what you think.> > >> > > Greg> > >> >> >> >>

December 29, 2007

You guys rock. I feel I have a much better understanding of what my inflammation is stemming from, and all the possible tools I have to treat it. I have an appointment on the 2nd of the new year, and I am going to get my doctor to do a check for Cpn, a swab, all the appropriate blood tests associated w/ Cpn, and the d-metabolite tests for MP. This may take some convincing, but I'm confident I can guilt him in to it. I also understand that sometimes the tests will not give a definitive detection of infection, but I figure it is worth a shot. Any other tests or more specific tests I should ask for? Agentbleu said: you should be able to fathom if you have a systemic infection just by the way you feel... You're right, I feel like this has to be the underlying explanation for my inflammation. a said: Personally I think what works on the MP are the antibiotics, not the

D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. Who knows. It sounds like everybody agrees that antibiotics are the way to go. With the MP though they make it seem like the VitD is the source of what is feeding the infection, and that D avoidance is an absolute essential part of the protocol. I guess I'll have to wait for test results and decide if this is the route I should go. Thank you! GregAgentbleu <colourbleu@...> wrote: Zitro and Minicin are only 2 of the the tools in the box.

Biaxin, Cipro, Flaygl, lamisil, etc. should all be considered. One needs to learn about the tools that are available.a" but it seems to me that would not be the obvious diagosis with eye inflammation."Cpn is a well known eye infector! On 29 Dec 2007, at 03:07, pjeanneus wrote:Greg,I disagree with Tony aka Dumbaussie, that it is easy for us laymen to find out what bacteria we are infected with. I do agree with Tony that inflammation indicates undiagnosed infection. It may be c. pneumonia, but it seems to me that would not be the obvious diagosis with eye inflammation.I want to make a middle of the road suggestion to you. Forget about avoiding D and sun. Try the antibiotics Marshall suggests instead. If your doctor is willing to subject you to methotrexate, then he should be willing to try minocycline which is approved to treat rheumatoid arthritis BECAUSE IT REDUCES INFLAMMATION. He may also be willing to prescribe Zithromax because it also reduces inflammation. Both of these antibiotics are effective against a number of bacteria. If you get a bad reaction with the minocycline reduce the dose to about 100 mg every third day for awhile.You may need to taper off the prednisone as well. Assuming you have an infection, of course, prednisone is the worst thing you could be taking, but you still can't stop it all at

once.Personally I think what works on the MP are the antibiotics, not the D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. Who knows.a Carnes>> Hey everybody,> > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on the> infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in this direction by> a very helpful man, . 's website, email correspondence, and> subsequent links and information made me open to the idea, if not> entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation is infectious in> nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but research and have> come to a few realizations.> > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of the sclera) 3> years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, and throat> infection. I am in the category of those dealing with scleritis who do> not show signs of an underlying disease causing the inflammation. > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: episodes of sun> poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested in the possible> role of VitD and the MP. > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the same side in> which my ear infections over the last few years have been

more severe.> When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes are worse making> me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial infection.> > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much worse than it has> ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria have been> multiplying. > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from reading here and other> sources that most are in agreement that chronic inflammation is fueled> by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone (I am currently> tapering), and push by my doctors to go on methotrexate if> inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate my infection and> inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is how to fight> the underlying infection. > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read about Dr.> Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the protocol, the more> doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of long term low> dose antibiotic treatment. > > Are the members here in any agreement as to the best way to treat> chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ minocycline and VitD> avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could very likely> have fungal infections or coinfections that would require other> stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might be a good idea> to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see how my inflammation> responds. > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, to test my> response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel as though it is> going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD reduction coincides with> prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any thoughts or> suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can

beat this thing, but I> could really use some help. Thanks for listening everybody, and let me> know what you think. > > Greg>

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

December 29, 2007

p.s. Plastic surgeons and docs who specialize in facial reconstruction often deal (by necessity) with infections in the head that no one else understands or will touch. You might seek some of them out for their perspectives on chronic eye infection/inflammation. These guys might be your best chance for being taken seriously, if you can't get help from an I.D. doc or opthamologist. Regarding D avoidance. Again, we've learned that the science behind this hypothesis is questionable. One of the D experts often cited in the early versions of the protocol, Tony Norman, outright refuted the D ratio testing as being any kind of accurate indicator of the levels of D hormone in the body, since it fluctuates vastly, even in a given day. That said, I know 2 people (a good friend and my daughter) who feel much better when they avoid D and the sun, and many others who

feel worse. Most of the literature, which mp.com pooh-poohs, supports the benefits of D as an anti-inflammatory, not the reverse. And this evidence is mounting exponentially. We're talking to worlds foremost D experts here. That doesn't mean they're 100% right, but I'd do a lot of research on the whole MP/D theory before committing to depriving yourself of it. You could do more harm than good. (unless you've got Sarcoidosis, or possibly a condition like Lupus)

December 29, 2007

my vit d sensitivity went away after taking b vitamins and antifungals. go figure.On 29 Dec 2007, at 18:07, Greg wrote:You guys rock. I feel I have a much better understanding of what my inflammation is stemming from, and all the possible tools I have to treat it. I have an appointment on the 2nd of the new year, and I am going to get my doctor to do a check for Cpn, a swab, all the appropriate blood tests associated w/ Cpn, and the d-metabolite tests for MP. This may take some convincing, but I'm confident I can guilt him in to it. I also understand that sometimes the tests will not give a definitive detection of infection, but I figure it is worth a shot. Any other tests or more specific tests I should ask for? Agentbleu said:you should be able to fathom if you have a systemic infection just by the way you feel...You're right, I feel like this has to be the underlying explanation for my inflammation. a said:Personally I think what works on the MP are the antibiotics, not the D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. Who knows.It sounds like everybody agrees that antibiotics are the way to go. With the MP though they make it seem like the VitD is the source of what is feeding the infection, and that D avoidance is an absolute essential part of the protocol. I guess I'll have to wait for test results and decide if this is the route I should go. Thank you!GregAgentbleu <colourbleufree (DOT) fr> wrote:Zitro and Minicin are only 2 of the the tools in the box. Biaxin, Cipro, Flaygl, lamisil, etc. should all be considered. One needs to learn about the tools that are available.a" but it seems to me that would not be the obvious diagosis with eye inflammation."Cpn is a well known eye infector! On 29 Dec 2007, at 03:07, pjeanneus wrote:Greg,I disagree with Tony aka Dumbaussie, that it is easy for us laymen to find out what bacteria we are infected with. I do agree with Tony that inflammation indicates undiagnosed infection. It may be c. pneumonia, but it seems to me that would not be the obvious diagosis with eye inflammation.I want to make a middle of the road suggestion to you. Forget about avoiding D and sun. Try the antibiotics Marshall suggests instead. If your doctor is willing to subject you to methotrexate, then he should be willing to try minocycline which is approved to treat rheumatoid arthritis BECAUSE IT REDUCES INFLAMMATION. He may also be willing to prescribe Zithromax because it also reduces inflammation. Both of these antibiotics are effective against a number of bacteria. If you get a bad reaction with the minocycline reduce the dose to about 100 mg every third day for awhile.You may need to taper off the prednisone as well. Assuming you have an infection, of course, prednisone is the worst thing you could be taking, but you still can't stop it all at once.Personally I think what works on the MP are the antibiotics, not the D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. Who knows.a Carnes>> Hey everybody,> > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on the> infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in this direction by> a very helpful man, . 's website, email correspondence, and> subsequent links and information made me open to the idea, if not> entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation is infectious in> nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but research and have> come to a few realizations.> > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of the sclera) 3> years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, and throat> infection. I am in the category of those dealing with scleritis who do> not show signs of an underlying disease causing the inflammation. > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: episodes of sun> poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested in the possible> role of VitD and the MP. > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the same side in> which my ear infections over the last few years have been more severe.> When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes are worse making> me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial infection.> > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much worse than it has> ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria have been> multiplying. > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from reading here and other> sources that most are in agreement that chronic inflammation is fueled> by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone (I am currently> tapering), and push by my doctors to go on methotrexate if> inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate my infection and> inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is how to fight> the underlying infection. > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read about Dr.> Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the protocol, the more> doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of long term low> dose antibiotic treatment. > > Are the members here in any agreement as to the best way to treat> chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ minocycline and VitD> avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could very likely> have fungal infections or coinfections that would require other> stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might be a good idea> to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see how my inflammation> responds. > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, to test my> response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel as though it is> going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD reduction coincides with> prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any thoughts or> suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can beat this thing, but I> could really use some help. Thanks for listening everybody, and let me> know what you think. > > Greg>Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

December 30, 2007

Time for another try: my question is (imagining that I have found a lab or somebody who will do cultures), how do you get swabs from meaningful areas, ie areas that are hard for abx/immune response to get to (sequestered sites where infections like to thrive)?

Why do you think that what you are growing from a swab taken on the surface of the cornea will indicate that the bugs are the same ones that will be causing the damage inside the eye?

Same for ear, sinuses, brain etc.

Tony, if you answer this simple question once, I shall start getting interested in the other things you have to share with us

I don't think I can make this request any more straight forward

Nelly

[infections] Re: Not to open a pandora's box on MP, but here it goes:::eye inflammation:::

GregYou'd get it 100% right if you sent a swab to esoterix labs, because they had a huge understanding about bacteria and TOXINS..Your eyes have a bacteria which is TOXIC and the TOXINS are fueling the inflammation.Most labs do things like they do in mcdonalds- it's on the menu, it's not on the menu.Forget blood tests and everything else the medical system can offer you..THEY ARE USELESS, AND THE SYSTEM IS FULL OF HOLES. It's basically a system which is driven by financial incentive RATHER than patient DIAGNOSIS. So without a doubt the bacteria that are all over your eyes are there in large numbers and are fuelling the inflammation. TAKE IT FROM SOMEONE THAT PLAYS WITH THESE THINGS DAILY.unfortunately many people are so focused on there own little thing on forums you lose the BIGGER PICTURE ..tony > > Greg,> I disagree with Tony aka Dumbaussie, that it is easy for us laymen to > find out what bacteria we are infected with. I do agree with Tony > that inflammation indicates undiagnosed infection. It may be c. > pneumonia, but it seems to me that would not be the obvious diagosis > with eye inflammation.> > I want to make a middle of the road suggestion to you. Forget about > avoiding D and sun. Try the antibiotics Marshall suggests instead. If > your doctor is willing to subject you to methotrexate, then he should > be willing to try minocycline which is approved to treat rheumatoid > arthritis BECAUSE IT REDUCES INFLAMMATION. > > He may also be willing to prescribe Zithromax because it also reduces > inflammation. Both of these antibiotics are effective against a > number of bacteria. If you get a bad reaction with the minocycline > reduce the dose to about 100 mg every third day for awhile.> > You may need to taper off the prednisone as well. Assuming you have > an infection, of course, prednisone is the worst thing you could be > taking, but you still can't stop it all at once.> > Personally I think what works on the MP are the antibiotics, not the > D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. Who knows.> > a Carnes> > >> > Hey everybody,> > > > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on the> > infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in this direction > by> > a very helpful man, . 's website, email correspondence, and> > subsequent links and information made me open to the idea, if not> > entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation is infectious > in> > nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but research and > have> > come to a few realizations.> > > > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of the sclera) 3> > years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, and throat> > infection. I am in the category of those dealing with scleritis who > do> > not show signs of an underlying disease causing the inflammation. > > > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: episodes of sun> > poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested in the > possible> > role of VitD and the MP. > > > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the same side in> > which my ear infections over the last few years have been more > severe.> > When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes are worse making> > me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial infection.> > > > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much worse than it > has> > ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria have been> > multiplying. > > > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from reading here and > other> > sources that most are in agreement that chronic inflammation is > fueled> > by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone (I am > currently> > tapering), and push by my doctors to go on methotrexate if> > inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate my infection and> > inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is how to fight> > the underlying infection. > > > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read about Dr.> > Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the protocol, the more> > doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of long term low> > dose antibiotic treatment. > > > > Are the members here in any agreement as to the best way to treat> > chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ minocycline and > VitD> > avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could very likely> > have fungal infections or coinfections that would require other> > stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might be a good > idea> > to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see how my > inflammation> > responds. > > > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, to test my> > response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel as though it is> > going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD reduction coincides > with> > prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any thoughts or> > suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can beat this thing, but I> > could really use some help. Thanks for listening everybody, and let > me> > know what you think. > > > > Greg> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.>

December 30, 2007

Tony,

You STILL haven't answered the question: how do you swab to ensure the bugs you are growing come from an area that is of significance to your illness?

You are always replying: bacteria are nasty, they have the power to cause inflammation, illness and death, take them seriously, treat heavy with the RIGHT abx etc.

I always say : I AGREE! (in fact I didn't wait for you to come along, I have always known this, ever since I got ill)

then I ask: HOW do you ensure you get the bacteria that are making you sick onto your plate?

And then you don't answer...

Nelly

[infections] Re: Not to open a pandora's box on MP, but here it goes:::eye inflammation:::

NellyI just did a recent 'feels like candida probe'- firstly the bacteria are evident by appearing in large numbers.. Secondly the bacteria present, killed off red blood cells in the culture agar, which to me means they are producing a TOXIN. Imagine an organism that can kill off red cells - WOULD THAT NOT START THE INFLAMMATION PROCESS. simple science isn't that tough. If your bloodstream is full of destructed red cells and you have a constant infflammatory condition..you'd be silly ignoring the bleeding obvious..tony> > > > Greg,> > I disagree with Tony aka Dumbaussie, that it is easy for us laymen > to > > find out what bacteria we are infected with. I do agree with Tony > > that inflammation indicates undiagnosed infection. It may be c. > > pneumonia, but it seems to me that would not be the obvious > diagosis > > with eye inflammation.> > > > I want to make a middle of the road suggestion to you. Forget about > > avoiding D and sun. Try the antibiotics Marshall suggests instead. > If > > your doctor is willing to subject you to methotrexate, then he > should > > be willing to try minocycline which is approved to treat rheumatoid > > arthritis BECAUSE IT REDUCES INFLAMMATION. > > > > He may also be willing to prescribe Zithromax because it also > reduces > > inflammation. Both of these antibiotics are effective against a > > number of bacteria. If you get a bad reaction with the minocycline > > reduce the dose to about 100 mg every third day for awhile.> > > > You may need to taper off the prednisone as well. Assuming you have > > an infection, of course, prednisone is the worst thing you could be > > taking, but you still can't stop it all at once.> > > > Personally I think what works on the MP are the antibiotics, not > the > > D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. Who knows.> > > > a Carnes> > > > >> > > Hey everybody,> > > > > > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on the> > > infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in this direction > > by> > > a very helpful man, . 's website, email correspondence, > and> > > subsequent links and information made me open to the idea, if not> > > entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation is > infectious > > in> > > nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but research and > > have> > > come to a few realizations.> > > > > > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of the sclera) > 3> > > years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, and throat> > > infection. I am in the category of those dealing with scleritis > who > > do> > > not show signs of an underlying disease causing the inflammation. > > > > > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: episodes of sun> > > poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested in the > > possible> > > role of VitD and the MP. > > > > > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the same side in> > > which my ear infections over the last few years have been more > > severe.> > > When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes are worse > making> > > me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial infection.> > > > > > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much worse than it > > has> > > ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria have been> > > multiplying. > > > > > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from reading here and > > other> > > sources that most are in agreement that chronic inflammation is > > fueled> > > by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone (I am > > currently> > > tapering), and push by my doctors to go on methotrexate if> > > inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate my infection > and> > > inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is how to fight> > > the underlying infection. > > > > > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read about Dr.> > > Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the protocol, the > more> > > doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of long term low> > > dose antibiotic treatment. > > > > > > Are the members here in any agreement as to the best way to treat> > > chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ minocycline and > > VitD> > > avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could very likely> > > have fungal infections or coinfections that would require other> > > stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might be a good > > idea> > > to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see how my > > inflammation> > > responds. > > > > > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, to test my> > > response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel as though it > is> > > going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD reduction coincides > > with> > > prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any thoughts or> > > suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can beat this thing, but > I> > > could really use some help. Thanks for listening everybody, and > let > > me> > > know what you think. > > > > > > Greg> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.> >> > > > > >

December 30, 2007

Yes, that's fine, and I know that doctors don't bother to ID what pathogens cause disease, I know if you go the the doc with inflammation on your genitals you're very likely to be told it's candida and come out of the surgery with some anti-candida cream to put on it. So again, let me agree with you, they can't be bothered to swab and culture what could be swabbed and cultured.

Now, how do you swab areas that are not as easily reachable as your penis? like your brain for eg? (unless your brain is situated in the same location, of course ))))))

Nelly

[infections] Re: Not to open a pandora's box on MP, but here it goes:::eye inflammation:::

NellyJust to answer your query more cleanly. Without having mmy head bitten off by a tough french chick.Swabbing the penile area, that felt like candida, produced large numbers of a particular bacteria that dominated the region without any other organisms showing up and it was TOXIC ENOUGH TO EXFOLIATE area's of skin to make the candida looking yucky appearance many have become familiar with.And the beauty of this observation is also that the appearnce of this organiosm and lack of any other organisms, means that the toxic mess it made of my lower region also had enough destructive force(toxins = antibiotics) to kill off everything else that may have lived down there.I also 'got this irritation', like everyone else gets them- I hadnn't takjen any antibiotics for a month and had two penicillins left, which I took together, without any other antibiotic follow up and I ended up having something to play with (pardon the pun)..since I had a few culture plates around..tony> > > > Greg,> > I disagree with Tony aka Dumbaussie, that it is easy for us laymen > to > > find out what bacteria we are infected with. I do agree with Tony > > that inflammation indicates undiagnosed infection. It may be c. > > pneumonia, but it seems to me that would not be the obvious > diagosis > > with eye inflammation.> > > > I want to make a middle of the road suggestion to you. Forget about > > avoiding D and sun. Try the antibiotics Marshall suggests instead. > If > > your doctor is willing to subject you to methotrexate, then he > should > > be willing to try minocycline which is approved to treat rheumatoid > > arthritis BECAUSE IT REDUCES INFLAMMATION. > > > > He may also be willing to prescribe Zithromax because it also > reduces > > inflammation. Both of these antibiotics are effective against a > > number of bacteria. If you get a bad reaction with the minocycline > > reduce the dose to about 100 mg every third day for awhile.> > > > You may need to taper off the prednisone as well. Assuming you have > > an infection, of course, prednisone is the worst thing you could be > > taking, but you still can't stop it all at once.> > > > Personally I think what works on the MP are the antibiotics, not > the > > D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. Who knows.> > > > a Carnes> > > > >> > > Hey everybody,> > > > > > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on the> > > infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in this direction > > by> > > a very helpful man, . 's website, email correspondence, > and> > > subsequent links and information made me open to the idea, if not> > > entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation is > infectious > > in> > > nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but research and > > have> > > come to a few realizations.> > > > > > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of the sclera) > 3> > > years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, and throat> > > infection. I am in the category of those dealing with scleritis > who > > do> > > not show signs of an underlying disease causing the inflammation. > > > > > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: episodes of sun> > > poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested in the > > possible> > > role of VitD and the MP. > > > > > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the same side in> > > which my ear infections over the last few years have been more > > severe.> > > When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes are worse > making> > > me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial infection.> > > > > > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much worse than it > > has> > > ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria have been> > > multiplying. > > > > > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from reading here and > > other> > > sources that most are in agreement that chronic inflammation is > > fueled> > > by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone (I am > > currently> > > tapering), and push by my doctors to go on methotrexate if> > > inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate my infection > and> > > inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is how to fight> > > the underlying infection. > > > > > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read about Dr.> > > Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the protocol, the > more> > > doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of long term low> > > dose antibiotic treatment. > > > > > > Are the members here in any agreement as to the best way to treat> > > chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ minocycline and > > VitD> > > avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could very likely> > > have fungal infections or coinfections that would require other> > > stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might be a good > > idea> > > to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see how my > > inflammation> > > responds. > > > > > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, to test my> > > response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel as though it > is> > > going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD reduction coincides > > with> > > prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any thoughts or> > > suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can beat this thing, but > I> > > could really use some help. Thanks for listening everybody, and > let > > me> > > know what you think. > > > > > > Greg> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.> >> > > > > >

December 30, 2007

Nelly I think allot of the problems we have in the brain are caused by the toxins from the fungi and bacteria elsewhere.On 30 Dec 2007, at 12:44, Nelly Pointis wrote:Yes, that's fine, and I know that doctors don't bother to ID what pathogens cause disease, I know if you go the the doc with inflammation on your genitals you're very likely to be told it's candida and come out of the surgery with some anti-candida cream to put on it. So again, let me agree with you, they can't be bothered to swab and culture what could be swabbed and cultured. Now, how do you swab areas that are not as easily reachable as your penis? like your brain for eg? (unless your brain is situated in the same location, of course )))))) Nelly [infections] Re: Not to open a pandora's box on MP, but here it goes:::eye inflammation:::NellyJust to answer your query more cleanly. Without having mmy head bitten off by a tough french chick.Swabbing the penile area, that felt like candida, produced large numbers of a particular bacteria that dominated the region without any other organisms showing up and it was TOXIC ENOUGH TO EXFOLIATE area's of skin to make the candida looking yucky appearance many have become familiar with.And the beauty of this observation is also that the appearnce of this organiosm and lack of any other organisms, means that the toxic mess it made of my lower region also had enough destructive force(toxins = antibiotics) to kill off everything else that may have lived down there.I also 'got this irritation', like everyone else gets them- I hadnn't takjen any antibiotics for a month and had two penicillins left, which I took together, without any other antibiotic follow up and I ended up having something to play with (pardon the pun)..since I had a few culture plates around..tony> > > > Greg,> > I disagree with Tony aka Dumbaussie, that it is easy for us laymen > to > > find out what bacteria we are infected with. I do agree with Tony > > that inflammation indicates undiagnosed infection. It may be c. > > pneumonia, but it seems to me that would not be the obvious > diagosis > > with eye inflammation.> > > > I want to make a middle of the road suggestion to you. Forget about > > avoiding D and sun. Try the antibiotics Marshall suggests instead. > If > > your doctor is willing to subject you to methotrexate, then he > should > > be willing to try minocycline which is approved to treat rheumatoid > > arthritis BECAUSE IT REDUCES INFLAMMATION. > > > > He may also be willing to prescribe Zithromax because it also > reduces > > inflammation. Both of these antibiotics are effective against a > > number of bacteria. If you get a bad reaction with the minocycline > > reduce the dose to about 100 mg every third day for awhile.> > > > You may need to taper off the prednisone as well. Assuming you have > > an infection, of course, prednisone is the worst thing you could be > > taking, but you still can't stop it all at once.> > > > Personally I think what works on the MP are the antibiotics, not > the > > D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. Who knows.> > > > a Carnes> > > > >> > > Hey everybody,> > > > > > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on the> > > infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in this direction > > by> > > a very helpful man, . 's website, email correspondence, > and> > > subsequent links and information made me open to the idea, if not> > > entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation is > infectious > > in> > > nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but research and > > have> > > come to a few realizations.> > > > > > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of the sclera) > 3> > > years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, and throat> > > infection. I am in the category of those dealing with scleritis > who > > do> > > not show signs of an underlying disease causing the inflammation. > > > > > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: episodes of sun> > > poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested in the > > possible> > > role of VitD and the MP. > > > > > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the same side in> > > which my ear infections over the last few years have been more > > severe.> > > When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes are worse > making> > > me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial infection.> > > > > > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much worse than it > > has> > > ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria have been> > > multiplying. > > > > > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from reading here and > > other> > > sources that most are in agreement that chronic inflammation is > > fueled> > > by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone (I am > > currently> > > tapering), and push by my doctors to go on methotrexate if> > > inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate my infection > and> > > inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is how to fight> > > the underlying infection. > > > > > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read about Dr.> > > Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the protocol, the > more> > > doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of long term low> > > dose antibiotic treatment. > > > > > > Are the members here in any agreement as to the best way to treat> > > chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ minocycline and > > VitD> > > avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could very likely> > > have fungal infections or coinfections that would require other> > > stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might be a good > > idea> > > to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see how my > > inflammation> > > responds. > > > > > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, to test my> > > response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel as though it > is> > > going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD reduction coincides > > with> > > prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any thoughts or> > > suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can beat this thing, but > I> > > could really use some help. Thanks for listening everybody, and > let > > me> > > know what you think. > > > > > > Greg> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.> >> > > > > >

December 30, 2007

Yes I agree, it can be. and I personally hope it is.

But where is elsewhere? Is it always an easy to reach location that can be swabbed?

Nelly

[infections] Re: Not to open a pandora's box on MP, but here it goes:::eye inflammation:::

NellyJust to answer your query more cleanly. Without having mmy head bitten off by a tough french chick.Swabbing the penile area, that felt like candida, produced large numbers of a particular bacteria that dominated the region without any other organisms showing up and it was TOXIC ENOUGH TO EXFOLIATE area's of skin to make the candida looking yucky appearance many have become familiar with.And the beauty of this observation is also that the appearnce of this organiosm and lack of any other organisms, means that the toxic mess it made of my lower region also had enough destructive force(toxins = antibiotics) to kill off everything else that may have lived down there.I also 'got this irritation', like everyone else gets them- I hadnn't takjen any antibiotics for a month and had two penicillins left, which I took together, without any other antibiotic follow up and I ended up having something to play with (pardon the pun)...since I had a few culture plates around..tony> > > > Greg,> > I disagree with Tony aka Dumbaussie, that it is easy for us laymen > to > > find out what bacteria we are infected with. I do agree with Tony > > that inflammation indicates undiagnosed infection. It may be c. > > pneumonia, but it seems to me that would not be the obvious > diagosis > > with eye inflammation.> > > > I want to make a middle of the road suggestion to you. Forget about > > avoiding D and sun. Try the antibiotics Marshall suggests instead. > If > > your doctor is willing to subject you to methotrexate, then he > should > > be willing to try minocycline which is approved to treat rheumatoid > > arthritis BECAUSE IT REDUCES INFLAMMATION. > > > > He may also be willing to prescribe Zithromax because it also > reduces > > inflammation. Both of these antibiotics are effective against a > > number of bacteria. If you get a bad reaction with the minocycline > > reduce the dose to about 100 mg every third day for awhile.> > > > You may need to taper off the prednisone as well. Assuming you have > > an infection, of course, prednisone is the worst thing you could be > > taking, but you still can't stop it all at once.> > > > Personally I think what works on the MP are the antibiotics, not > the > > D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. Who knows.> > > > a Carnes> > > > >> > > Hey everybody,> > > > > > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on the> > > infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in this direction > > by> > > a very helpful man, . 's website, email correspondence, > and> > > subsequent links and information made me open to the idea, if not> > > entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation is > infectious > > in> > > nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but research and > > have> > > come to a few realizations.> > > > > > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of the sclera) > 3> > > years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, and throat> > > infection. I am in the category of those dealing with scleritis > who > > do> > > not show signs of an underlying disease causing the inflammation. > > > > > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: episodes of sun> > > poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested in the > > possible> > > role of VitD and the MP. > > > > > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the same side in> > > which my ear infections over the last few years have been more > > severe.> > > When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes are worse > making> > > me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial infection.> > > > > > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much worse than it > > has> > > ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria have been> > > multiplying. > > > > > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from reading here and > > other> > > sources that most are in agreement that chronic inflammation is > > fueled> > > by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone (I am > > currently> > > tapering), and push by my doctors to go on methotrexate if> > > inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate my infection > and> > > inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is how to fight> > > the underlying infection. > > > > > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read about Dr.> > > Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the protocol, the > more> > > doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of long term low> > > dose antibiotic treatment. > > > > > > Are the members here in any agreement as to the best way to treat> > > chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ minocycline and > > VitD> > > avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could very likely> > > have fungal infections or coinfections that would require other> > > stronger antibiotics.. I also understand that it might be a good > > idea> > > to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see how my > > inflammation> > > responds. > > > > > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, to test my> > > response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel as though it > is> > > going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD reduction coincides > > with> > > prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any thoughts or> > > suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can beat this thing, but > I> > > could really use some help. Thanks for listening everybody, and > let > > me> > > know what you think. > > > > > > Greg> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.> >> > > > > >

December 30, 2007

Yes, Tony, no need to shout, I UNDERSTAND!!!!!!! Bad bacteria mop up dead the area they reside in of any other organism, yes, This is a fact that nobody can deny, that's what make them bad. I agree that doctors don't understand this very well, I understand that staph epidermis for eg CAN BE BAD if nothing else grows around it, I UNDERSTAND. Staph epi is part of the normal flora (ask any doctor) but it might've turned nasty and doctors will NEVER take it into account, I UNDERSTAND that principle.

Where does that leave us re infection loci that are not reachable without surgery or other invasive techniques?

Nelly

[infections] Re: Not to open a pandora's box on MP, but here it goes:::eye inflammation:::

Nelly I think I answered your query by explaining that your not growing what is considered a garden variety- BECAUSE WHEN THE RIGHT SEQUENCES OCCUR, THESE BACTERIA SHOW THERE UGLY SIDE.. GARDEN VARIETY DON'T HAVE AN UGLY SIDE..THEN THERE'S THE LACK OF ANY OTHER SPECIES OF THE GARDEN VARIETY, THAT MAKES THE SITUATION MORE OBVIOUS- NO OTHER BACTERIA CAN GROW NEARBY SO THAT MAKES IT LIKE A GARDEN THAT WON'T GROW ANYTHING BUT A CERTAIN WEED AND NO OTHER PLANT CAN TAKE HOLD IN THE VICINITY- HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM!!!!> > > > > > Greg,> > > I disagree with Tony aka Dumbaussie, that it is easy for us > laymen > > to > > > find out what bacteria we are infected with. I do agree with > Tony > > > that inflammation indicates undiagnosed infection. It may be c. > > > pneumonia, but it seems to me that would not be the obvious > > diagosis > > > with eye inflammation.> > > > > > I want to make a middle of the road suggestion to you. Forget > about > > > avoiding D and sun. Try the antibiotics Marshall suggests > instead. > > If > > > your doctor is willing to subject you to methotrexate, then he > > should > > > be willing to try minocycline which is approved to treat > rheumatoid > > > arthritis BECAUSE IT REDUCES INFLAMMATION. > > > > > > He may also be willing to prescribe Zithromax because it also > > reduces > > > inflammation. Both of these antibiotics are effective against a > > > number of bacteria. If you get a bad reaction with the > minocycline > > > reduce the dose to about 100 mg every third day for awhile.> > > > > > You may need to taper off the prednisone as well. Assuming you > have > > > an infection, of course, prednisone is the worst thing you > could be > > > taking, but you still can't stop it all at once.> > > > > > Personally I think what works on the MP are the antibiotics, > not > > the > > > D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. Who knows.> > > > > > a Carnes> > > > > > >> > > > Hey everybody,> > > > > > > > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on the> > > > infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in this > direction > > > by> > > > a very helpful man, . 's website, email > correspondence, > > and> > > > subsequent links and information made me open to the idea, if > not> > > > entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation is > > infectious > > > in> > > > nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but research > and > > > have> > > > come to a few realizations.> > > > > > > > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of the > sclera) > > 3> > > > years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, and throat> > > > infection. I am in the category of those dealing with > scleritis > > who > > > do> > > > not show signs of an underlying disease causing the > inflammation. > > > > > > > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: episodes of > sun> > > > poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested in the > > > possible> > > > role of VitD and the MP. > > > > > > > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the same > side in> > > > which my ear infections over the last few years have been > more > > > severe.> > > > When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes are worse > > making> > > > me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial > infection.> > > > > > > > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much worse than > it > > > has> > > > ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria have been> > > > multiplying. > > > > > > > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from reading here > and > > > other> > > > sources that most are in agreement that chronic inflammation > is > > > fueled> > > > by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone (I am > > > currently> > > > tapering), and push by my doctors to go on methotrexate if> > > > inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate my > infection > > and> > > > inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is how to > fight> > > > the underlying infection. > > > > > > > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read about > Dr.> > > > Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the protocol, > the > > more> > > > doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of long term > low> > > > dose antibiotic treatment. > > > > > > > > Are the members here in any agreement as to the best way to > treat> > > > chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ minocycline > and > > > VitD> > > > avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could very > likely> > > > have fungal infections or coinfections that would require > other> > > > stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might be a > good > > > idea> > > > to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see how my > > > inflammation> > > > responds. > > > > > > > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, to test my> > > > response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel as though > it > > is> > > > going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD reduction > coincides > > > with> > > > prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any thoughts > or> > > > suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can beat this thing, > but > > I> > > > could really use some help. Thanks for listening everybody, > and > > let > > > me> > > > know what you think. > > > > > > > > Greg> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >

December 30, 2007

Hm, I think someone just got

his head bitten off by a "tough French chick after all" ^^-)

--Bob

Nelly Pointis wrote:

Yes, that's fine, and I know that

doctors don't bother to ID what pathogens cause disease, I know if you

go the the doc with inflammation on your genitals you're very likely to

be told it's candida and come out of the surgery with some anti-candida

cream to put on it. So again, let me agree with you, they can't be

bothered to swab and culture what could be swabbed and cultured.

Now, how do you swab areas that are

not as easily reachable as your penis? like your brain for eg? (unless

your brain is situated in the same location, of course ))))))

Nelly

-----

Original Message -----

From:

dumbaussie2000

To:

infections

Sent:

Sunday, December 30, 2007 2:45 AM

Subject:

[infections] Re: Not to open a pandora's box on MP,

but here it goes:::eye inflammation:::

Nelly

Just to answer your query more cleanly. Without having mmy head

bitten off by a tough french chick.Swabbing the penile area, that

felt like candida, produced large numbers of a particular bacteria

that dominated the region without any other organisms showing up and

it was TOXIC ENOUGH TO EXFOLIATE area's of skin to make the candida

looking yucky appearance many have become familiar with.And the

beauty of this observation is also that the appearnce of this

organiosm and lack of any other organisms, means that the toxic mess

it made of my lower region also had enough destructive force(toxins =

antibiotics) to kill off everything else that may have lived down

there.

I also 'got this irritation', like everyone else gets them- I hadnn't

takjen any antibiotics for a month and had two penicillins left,

which I took together, without any other antibiotic follow up and I

ended up having something to play with (pardon the pun)..since I had

a few culture plates around..

tony

> >

> > Greg,

> > I disagree with Tony aka Dumbaussie, that it is easy for us

laymen

> to

> > find out what bacteria we are infected with. I do agree

with

Tony

> > that inflammation indicates undiagnosed infection. It may

be c.

> > pneumonia, but it seems to me that would not be the obvious

> diagosis

> > with eye inflammation.

> >

> > I want to make a middle of the road suggestion to you.

Forget

about

> > avoiding D and sun. Try the antibiotics Marshall suggests

instead.

> If

> > your doctor is willing to subject you to methotrexate, then

he

> should

> > be willing to try minocycline which is approved to treat

rheumatoid

> > arthritis BECAUSE IT REDUCES INFLAMMATION.

> >

> > He may also be willing to prescribe Zithromax because it

also

> reduces

> > inflammation. Both of these antibiotics are effective

against a

> > number of bacteria. If you get a bad reaction with the

minocycline

> > reduce the dose to about 100 mg every third day for awhile.

> >

> > You may need to taper off the prednisone as well. Assuming

you

have

> > an infection, of course, prednisone is the worst thing you

could be

> > taking, but you still can't stop it all at once.

> >

> > Personally I think what works on the MP are the

antibiotics,

not

> the

> > D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. Who

knows.

> >

> > a Carnes

> >

> > >

> > > Hey everybody,

> > >

> > > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on

the

> > > infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in

this

direction

> > by

> > > a very helpful man, . 's website, email

correspondence,

> and

> > > subsequent links and information made me open to the

idea, if

not

> > > entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation

is

> infectious

> > in

> > > nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but

research

and

> > have

> > > come to a few realizations.

> > >

> > > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of

the

sclera)

> 3

> > > years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear,

and throat

> > > infection. I am in the category of those dealing with

scleritis

> who

> > do

> > > not show signs of an underlying disease causing the

inflammation.

> > >

> > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie:

episodes of

sun

> > > poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested

in the

> > possible

> > > role of VitD and the MP.

> > >

> > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the

same

side in

> > > which my ear infections over the last few years have

been

more

> > severe.

> > > When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes are

worse

> making

> > > me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial

infection.

> > >

> > > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much

worse than

it

> > has

> > > ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria

have been

> > > multiplying.

> > >

> > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from

reading here

and

> > other

> > > sources that most are in agreement that chronic

inflammation

is

> > fueled

> > > by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone

(I am

> > currently

> > > tapering), and push by my doctors to go on

methotrexate if

> > > inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate my

infection

> and

> > > inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is

how to

fight

> > > the underlying infection.

> > >

> > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read

about

Dr.

> > > Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the

protocol,

the

> more

> > > doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of

long term

low

> > > dose antibiotic treatment.

> > >

> > > Are the members here in any agreement as to the best

way to

treat

> > > chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/

minocycline

and

> > VitD

> > > avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could

very

likely

> > > have fungal infections or coinfections that would

require

other

> > > stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might

be a

good

> > idea

> > > to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see how

my

> > inflammation

> > > responds.

> > >

> > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, to

test my

> > > response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel as

though

it

> is

> > > going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD

reduction

coincides

> > with

> > > prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any

thoughts

or

> > > suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can beat this

thing,

but

> I

> > > could really use some help. Thanks for listening

everybody,

and

> let

> > me

> > > know what you think.

> > >

> > > Greg

> > >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

> >

>

December 30, 2007

lolOn 30 Dec 2007, at 18:49, Bob Grommes wrote:Hm, I think someone just got his head bitten off by a "tough French chick after all" ^^-)--BobNelly Pointis wrote:Yes, that's fine, and I know that doctors don't bother to ID what pathogens cause disease, I know if you go the the doc with inflammation on your genitals you're very likely to be told it's candida and come out of the surgery with some anti-candida cream to put on it. So again, let me agree with you, they can't be bothered to swab and culture what could be swabbed and cultured. Now, how do you swab areas that are not as easily reachable as your penis? like your brain for eg? (unless your brain is situated in the same location, of course )))))) Nelly [infections] Re: Not to open a pandora's box on MP, but here it goes:::eye inflammation:::NellyJust to answer your query more cleanly. Without having mmy head bitten off by a tough french chick.Swabbing the penile area, that felt like candida, produced large numbers of a particular bacteria that dominated the region without any other organisms showing up and it was TOXIC ENOUGH TO EXFOLIATE area's of skin to make the candida looking yucky appearance many have become familiar with.And the beauty of this observation is also that the appearnce of this organiosm and lack of any other organisms, means that the toxic mess it made of my lower region also had enough destructive force(toxins = antibiotics) to kill off everything else that may have lived down there.I also 'got this irritation', like everyone else gets them- I hadnn't takjen any antibiotics for a month and had two penicillins left, which I took together, without any other antibiotic follow up and I ended up having something to play with (pardon the pun)..since I had a few culture plates around..tony> > > > Greg,> > I disagree with Tony aka Dumbaussie, that it is easy for us laymen > to > > find out what bacteria we are infected with. I do agree with Tony > > that inflammation indicates undiagnosed infection. It may be c. > > pneumonia, but it seems to me that would not be the obvious > diagosis > > with eye inflammation.> > > > I want to make a middle of the road suggestion to you. Forget about > > avoiding D and sun. Try the antibiotics Marshall suggests instead. > If > > your doctor is willing to subject you to methotrexate, then he > should > > be willing to try minocycline which is approved to treat rheumatoid > > arthritis BECAUSE IT REDUCES INFLAMMATION. > > > > He may also be willing to prescribe Zithromax because it also > reduces > > inflammation. Both of these antibiotics are effective against a > > number of bacteria. If you get a bad reaction with the minocycline > > reduce the dose to about 100 mg every third day for awhile.> > > > You may need to taper off the prednisone as well. Assuming you have > > an infection, of course, prednisone is the worst thing you could be > > taking, but you still can't stop it all at once.> > > > Personally I think what works on the MP are the antibiotics, not > the > > D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. Who knows.> > > > a Carnes> > > > >> > > Hey everybody,> > > > > > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on the> > > infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in this direction > > by> > > a very helpful man, . 's website, email correspondence, > and> > > subsequent links and information made me open to the idea, if not> > > entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation is > infectious > > in> > > nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but research and > > have> > > come to a few realizations.> > > > > > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of the sclera) > 3> > > years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, and throat> > > infection. I am in the category of those dealing with scleritis > who > > do> > > not show signs of an underlying disease causing the inflammation. > > > > > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: episodes of sun> > > poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested in the > > possible> > > role of VitD and the MP. > > > > > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the same side in> > > which my ear infections over the last few years have been more > > severe.> > > When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes are worse > making> > > me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial infection.> > > > > > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much worse than it > > has> > > ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria have been> > > multiplying. > > > > > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from reading here and > > other> > > sources that most are in agreement that chronic inflammation is > > fueled> > > by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone (I am > > currently> > > tapering), and push by my doctors to go on methotrexate if> > > inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate my infection > and> > > inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is how to fight> > > the underlying infection. > > > > > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read about Dr.> > > Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the protocol, the > more> > > doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of long term low> > > dose antibiotic treatment. > > > > > > Are the members here in any agreement as to the best way to treat> > > chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ minocycline and > > VitD> > > avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could very likely> > > have fungal infections or coinfections that would require other> > > stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might be a good > > idea> > > to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see how my > > inflammation> > > responds. > > > > > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, to test my> > > response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel as though it > is> > > going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD reduction coincides > > with> > > prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any thoughts or> > > suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can beat this thing, but > I> > > could really use some help. Thanks for listening everybody, and > let > > me> > > know what you think. > > > > > > Greg> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.> >> > > > > >

December 31, 2007

>I look at it like this, we need to get to the edge of a foci of >infection and keep chiseling it down

I agree and that's what I am trying to do

> even though the >organisms may be hurting your bone, they also ooze to the surface and >again your can observe there ugly side...This idea of needing to get >in deep to find a huge problem is a little rediculoius IMO because we >have a massive problem that isn't that hidden.>IMO

Well, if this notion deep-rooted infection oozing stuff all the way up into areas where they can be reached without chopping me brain/sinuses/bones into little bits, then I have absolutely no probs with getting swabbed, re-swabbed and swabbed again in every possible nook and crany and get it cultured forever to get even a hint of an answer. But I don't have a microbiologist on hand that will do it.

I did have my blood cultured several times, once they kept it growing for several weeks and zero things grew, according to the results I got. I had throat swabs, urine cultures when I had UTI (always E.coli), I had several laparoscopies to take swabs from my tubes, ovaries, and uterus and although I was in terrible pain (which always improved when I took combos of abx like metronidazole+keflex+a macrolide, they never grew anything.

I stopped hoping to get anywhere with this approach of trying to identify the bugs (mainly because I always had bad relapses whenever I had one of these procedures, under general anaesthesia, plus the pain and symptoms always got much worse afterwards). So I got to the point where I said "no more", nobody is doing anything invasive on me any longer, no spinal taps, no fiddling in my sinuses, nothing.

A few months ago, after having taken a course of flubendazole, I sprouted several crops of rashes which ended up looking and behaving very, very much like EM rashes (Lyme rashes). I had one biopsied: nothing, but at least I didn't have any noticeable relapses from the procedure.

I can't even have my teeth cleaned without having a bad relapse and they can never find anything anywhere.

SO, I try and work backwards, I try and throw every abx and the kitchen sink at my (putative) bugs and I observe how I react, then I have theories about what kind of bugs might be causing what.

Not good but until something better comes up, that's what I'll be doing.

Tony, if the bugs that are infecting me in deeper regions (bones, brain, liver etc) REALLY ooze out to my skin, my throat, my mouth, my ears, my vagina, conjunctiva, cornea, nostrils etc I will willingly have those places swabbed and cultured by any willing microbiologist.

Nelly

[infections] Re: Not to open a pandora's box on MP, but here it goes:::eye inflammation:::

NellyI look at it like this, we need to get to the edge of a foci of infection and keep chiseling it down..We do need though to adopt a multidisciplined approach that can't turn--- or that we can monitor..They really do cover this with tuberculosis treatment- you can see the use of many agents, some not antibacterial, just aiding the antibacterial drugs to do there job well.As you can see the younger members bounce back well which obviously means they may have less foci spots to clear..Many have to keep improving themselves monthly at all costs and get closer to leading a normal life.> > > > > > > > Greg,> > > > I disagree with Tony aka Dumbaussie, that it is easy for us > > laymen > > > to > > > > find out what bacteria we are infected with. I do agree > with > > Tony > > > > that inflammation indicates undiagnosed infection. It may > be c. > > > > pneumonia, but it seems to me that would not be the obvious > > > diagosis > > > > with eye inflammation.> > > > > > > > I want to make a middle of the road suggestion to you. > Forget > > about > > > > avoiding D and sun. Try the antibiotics Marshall suggests > > instead. > > > If > > > > your doctor is willing to subject you to methotrexate, then > he > > > should > > > > be willing to try minocycline which is approved to treat > > rheumatoid > > > > arthritis BECAUSE IT REDUCES INFLAMMATION. > > > > > > > > He may also be willing to prescribe Zithromax because it > also > > > reduces > > > > inflammation. Both of these antibiotics are effective > against a > > > > number of bacteria. If you get a bad reaction with the > > minocycline > > > > reduce the dose to about 100 mg every third day for awhile.> > > > > > > > You may need to taper off the prednisone as well. Assuming > you > > have > > > > an infection, of course, prednisone is the worst thing you > > could be > > > > taking, but you still can't stop it all at once.> > > > > > > > Personally I think what works on the MP are the > antibiotics, > > not > > > the > > > > D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. Who > knows.> > > > > > > > a Carnes> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Hey everybody,> > > > > > > > > > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on the> > > > > infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in this > > direction > > > > by> > > > > a very helpful man, . 's website, email > > correspondence, > > > and> > > > > subsequent links and information made me open to the > idea, if > > not> > > > > entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation is > > > infectious > > > > in> > > > > nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but > research > > and > > > > have> > > > > come to a few realizations.> > > > > > > > > > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of the > > sclera) > > > 3> > > > > years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, and > throat> > > > > infection. I am in the category of those dealing with > > scleritis > > > who > > > > do> > > > > not show signs of an underlying disease causing the > > inflammation. > > > > > > > > > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: episodes > of > > sun> > > > > poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested in > the > > > > possible> > > > > role of VitD and the MP. > > > > > > > > > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the same > > side in> > > > > which my ear infections over the last few years have been > > more > > > > severe.> > > > > When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes are > worse > > > making> > > > > me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial > > infection.> > > > > > > > > > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much worse > than > > it > > > > has> > > > > ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria have > been> > > > > multiplying. > > > > > > > > > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from reading > here > > and > > > > other> > > > > sources that most are in agreement that chronic > inflammation > > is > > > > fueled> > > > > by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone (I > am > > > > currently> > > > > tapering), and push by my doctors to go on methotrexate if> > > > > inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate my > > infection > > > and> > > > > inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is how > to > > fight> > > > > the underlying infection. > > > > > > > > > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read > about > > Dr.> > > > > Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the > protocol, > > the > > > more> > > > > doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of long > term > > low> > > > > dose antibiotic treatment. > > > > > > > > > > Are the members here in any agreement as to the best way > to > > treat> > > > > chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ > minocycline > > and > > > > VitD> > > > > avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could > very > > likely> > > > > have fungal infections or coinfections that would require > > other> > > > > stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might be > a > > good > > > > idea> > > > > to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see how my > > > > inflammation> > > > > responds. > > > > > > > > > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, to > test my> > > > > response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel as > though > > it > > > is> > > > > going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD reduction > > coincides > > > > with> > > > > prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any > thoughts > > or> > > > > suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can beat this > thing, > > but > > > I> > > > > could really use some help. Thanks for listening > everybody, > > and > > > let > > > > me> > > > > know what you think. > > > > > > > > > > Greg> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

December 31, 2007

Nelly, I know a microbiologist at UCSD who frequently does all kinds of cultures for a friend of mine. I've talked with her myself and she agrees with Tony. She thinks it's completely reasonable to use what you can culture in accessible places if you can't get a biopsy, etc. She says despite all the warnings of the sample being "contaminated" or ignored as "normal flora" that it's not unlikely to find that the surface bugs match the internal ones. In my own case this was 100% true. The nasal swab cultures were a perfect match to the bone biopsies. And the bugs in my nose are just as abx resistant as the ones in my bone. Most GPs even try to squirm out of the reliability of bone biopsies, telling you that bone biopsies can be "contaminated" with "normal flora" because the needle is exposed to air before grabbing the sample. That's just laziness. Doctors who have to routinely treat bone

infections agressively to save a foot, for example, don't dismiss such cultures so easily. I think, and the UCSD lab microbiologist agrees, that if you can find which abx your surface bugs are susceptible to, you've got a much better chance of successfully fighting your more concealed infections, rather than just treating based on blind guessing. Unfortunately, conventional wisdom doesn't want to look at it that way. It's unfortunate, because some simple tests could at least give us a starting place for treatment, but the establishment doesn't want to go there. Even with Strep they don't culture for sensitivities to the bug. Think of all those millions of kids with strep throats and ear infections. They just prescribe a broad spectrum abx and cross their fingers. It's criminal. They're creating stronger bugs which develop the

ability to go latent and reemerge later, eventually creating chronic illness or more serious disease. Personally, I think the AMA is afraid that they're going to find a whole lot more people are walking around with resistant bugs than they want to deal with. These docs are committing malpractice by not doing everything they can to identify your particular bugs and their resistances and susceptibilities. Chronic infections and resistant bugs are the elephant in the room that no one wants to acknowledge. penny Nelly Pointis <janel@...> wrote: Time for another try: my question is (imagining that I have found a lab or somebody who will do cultures), how do you get swabs from meaningful areas, ie areas that are hard for abx/immune response to get to (sequestered sites where infections like to thrive)? Why do you think that what you are growing from a swab taken on the surface of the cornea will indicate that the bugs are the same ones that will be causing the damage inside the eye? Same for ear, sinuses, brain etc. Tony, if you answer this simple question

once, I shall start getting interested in the other things you have to share with us I don't think I can make this request any more straight forward Nelly [infections] Re: Not to open a pandora's box on MP, but here it goes:::eye inflammation::: GregYou'd get it 100% right if you sent a swab to esoterix labs, because they had a huge understanding about bacteria and TOXINS..Your eyes have a bacteria which is TOXIC and the TOXINS are fueling the inflammation.Most labs do things like they do in mcdonalds- it's on the menu, it's not on the menu.Forget blood tests and everything else the medical system can offer you..THEY ARE USELESS, AND THE SYSTEM IS FULL OF HOLES. It's basically a system which is driven by financial incentive RATHER than patient DIAGNOSIS. So without a doubt the bacteria that are all over your eyes are there in large numbers and are fuelling the inflammation. TAKE IT FROM SOMEONE THAT PLAYS WITH THESE THINGS DAILY.unfortunately many people are so

focused on there own little thing on forums you lose the BIGGER PICTURE ..tony > > Greg,> I disagree with Tony aka Dumbaussie, that it is easy

for us laymen to > find out what bacteria we are infected with. I do agree with Tony > that inflammation indicates undiagnosed infection. It may be c. > pneumonia, but it seems to me that would not be the obvious diagosis > with eye inflammation.> > I want to make a middle of the road suggestion to you. Forget about > avoiding D and sun. Try the antibiotics Marshall suggests instead. If > your doctor is willing to subject you to methotrexate, then he should > be willing to try minocycline which is approved to treat rheumatoid > arthritis BECAUSE IT REDUCES INFLAMMATION. > > He may also be willing to prescribe Zithromax because it also reduces > inflammation. Both of these antibiotics are effective against a > number of bacteria. If you get a bad reaction with the minocycline > reduce the dose to about 100 mg every third day for awhile.>

> You may need to taper off the prednisone as well. Assuming you have > an infection, of course, prednisone is the worst thing you could be > taking, but you still can't stop it all at once.> > Personally I think what works on the MP are the antibiotics, not the > D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. Who knows.> > a Carnes> > >> > Hey everybody,> > > > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on the> > infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in this direction > by> > a very helpful man, . 's website, email correspondence, and> > subsequent links and information made me open to the idea, if not> > entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation is infectious > in> > nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but research and >

have> > come to a few realizations.> > > > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of the sclera) 3> > years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, and throat> > infection. I am in the category of those dealing with scleritis who > do> > not show signs of an underlying disease causing the inflammation. > > > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: episodes of sun> > poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested in the > possible> > role of VitD and the MP. > > > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the same side in> > which my ear infections over the last few years have been more > severe.> > When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes are worse making> > me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial infection.> >

> > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much worse than it > has> > ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria have been> > multiplying. > > > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from reading here and > other> > sources that most are in agreement that chronic inflammation is > fueled> > by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone (I am > currently> > tapering), and push by my doctors to go on methotrexate if> > inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate my infection and> > inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is how to fight> > the underlying infection. > > > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read about Dr.> > Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the protocol, the more> > doubts I have. I'm also worried

about the safety of long term low> > dose antibiotic treatment. > > > > Are the members here in any agreement as to the best way to treat> > chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ minocycline and > VitD> > avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could very likely> > have fungal infections or coinfections that would require other> > stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might be a good > idea> > to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see how my > inflammation> > responds. > > > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, to test my> > response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel as though it is> > going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD reduction coincides > with> > prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any thoughts or> >

suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can beat this thing, but I> > could really use some help. Thanks for listening everybody, and let > me> > know what you think. > > > > Greg> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.>

December 31, 2007

Totally agree, bleu. Those lucky bugs were just tenacious enough to find really good hiding place, a big fat, inpenetrable brain. It's very hard for the immune system to get to the brain, or into bone, organs, etc. I think all of these entrenched infections started out harmlessly enough like most bugs out there. These just found an inroad or a pipeline via a weak link in our anatomy somewhere. Something like an infected tooth, or sinus infection that didn't get completely killed. The bugs just keep on traveling 'til they find a nice comfy spot to settle in & start building their biofilms. Over the years I can pretty much track how my infection has spread from my head on down. It started in my sinuses or my jaw, moved to my neck, mythyroid, my shoulders, my arms, and then to my knees and ankles. It's definitely more prevalent on my right side than my left. I feel like you could draw a roadmap of how my bugs have travelled through

my body. There's plenty to back this up. It's now a common prophylactic procedure during dental procedures to treat with abx to prevent bacteria from traveling straight to the heart and cause serious heart damage. Conversely, Docs try to tell you that if bacteria get into your blood, you're septic and near death. If bacteria doesn't get to your heart from your gums via blood flow, I'd like to know how it does? Same with other areas of the body. People just don't know as much about the conditions we deal with as they do about heart disease. We don't have the same kind of diagnostics available. So naturally, it's written off as "impossible". Docs now say they won't start diabetic treatment until the patients get their dental bacteria cleaned up. What does dental bacteria have to do with Diabetes? Seems unrelated, but diabetes specialists will tell you from experience that Diabetics with bad mouths just can't seem to

benefit from treatment. pennyAgentbleu <colourbleu@...> wrote: Nelly I think allot of the problems we have in the brain are caused by the toxins from the fungi and bacteria elsewhere. .

December 31, 2007

Tony, Penny,

So, in the end we're all in agreement re there is infection even when doctors tell you there isn't, and re comensal flora is not always benign or beneficial!! In fact I knew we were, right from the start!

My question all along was: do you think the bugs in reachable areas are also the ones that are located in more deeply seated sites? You have (finally!!) answered my question. Now, I finally know your opinion on this question, I am also interested in the opinion of this microbiologist at UCSD, Penny, who says surface bugs are the same ones as the ones that are responsible for deeper infection.

I am keeping my options open on that, but I am glad we cleared up this on-going talking at cross purposes before the end of the year 2007, although Tony is almost in 2008 already!

Happy New Year to all, Barb, Bob, , a, Penny, , , Tony in alphabetical order ) and to all the others I have not cited)

Nelly (the not so tough French Chick!)

[infections] Re: Not to open a pandora's box on MP, but here it goes:::eye inflammation:::

NellyIf you go back to any of your cultures, the missing link is the staph epi that is often the only thing that's there- isn't being reported...You know how that goes and the way the system works...If you send a thorat swab to a lab without huge amounts of specific requests, all they tell you is ytou have no pathogens detected.All labs are doing is checking you don't have streptococcus pyogenes..Everything else is irrelevant unless they are grilled by a caring doctor.The same things happen with UTI cultures- I grow staph epi till the cows come home and it never gets reported because the urine didn't cloud up.Clouding of the urine is the labs impression of a UTI, any bug that avoids this isn't causing you problems, yet I recall my urine looking like I was shredding large amounts of my bladder on many occasions, only to get everythings normal on a report.Another thing I recall was my shins oozing a clear liquid, like biofilm(slime) early in the disease.... so I really don't think a huge problem is that invisable. Also I can just about culture my elbow and see similar bacterial patterns six months apart, so I feel confident the established organisms that are causing rot in a joint, have a foothold that we know is hard to clear... so your usual culprits are dominating over a long stretch and learning about these residents ain't a bad exercise.. it sure beats knowing nothing..And as ironic as this sounds my father died from pneumonia and no organisms were identified in his labs..> > > > > > > > > > Greg,> > > > > I disagree with Tony aka Dumbaussie, that it is easy > for us > > > laymen > > > > to > > > > > find out what bacteria we are infected with. I do agree > > with > > > Tony > > > > > that inflammation indicates undiagnosed infection. It > may > > be c. > > > > > pneumonia, but it seems to me that would not be the > obvious > > > > diagosis > > > > > with eye inflammation.> > > > > > > > > > I want to make a middle of the road suggestion to you. > > Forget > > > about > > > > > avoiding D and sun. Try the antibiotics Marshall > suggests > > > instead. > > > > If > > > > > your doctor is willing to subject you to methotrexate, > then > > he > > > > should > > > > > be willing to try minocycline which is approved to > treat > > > rheumatoid > > > > > arthritis BECAUSE IT REDUCES INFLAMMATION. > > > > > > > > > > He may also be willing to prescribe Zithromax because > it > > also > > > > reduces > > > > > inflammation. Both of these antibiotics are effective > > against a > > > > > number of bacteria. If you get a bad reaction with the > > > minocycline > > > > > reduce the dose to about 100 mg every third day for > awhile.> > > > > > > > > > You may need to taper off the prednisone as well. > Assuming > > you > > > have > > > > > an infection, of course, prednisone is the worst thing > you > > > could be > > > > > taking, but you still can't stop it all at once.> > > > > > > > > > Personally I think what works on the MP are the > > antibiotics, > > > not > > > > the > > > > > D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. > Who > > knows.> > > > > > > > > > a Carnes> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Hey everybody,> > > > > > > > > > > > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on > the> > > > > > infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in > this > > > direction > > > > > by> > > > > > a very helpful man, . 's website, email > > > correspondence, > > > > and> > > > > > subsequent links and information made me open to the > > idea, if > > > not> > > > > > entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation > is > > > > infectious > > > > > in> > > > > > nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but > > research > > > and > > > > > have> > > > > > come to a few realizations.> > > > > > > > > > > > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of > the > > > sclera) > > > > 3> > > > > > years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, > and > > throat> > > > > > infection. I am in the category of those dealing with > > > scleritis > > > > who > > > > > do> > > > > > not show signs of an underlying disease causing the > > > inflammation. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: > episodes > > of > > > sun> > > > > > poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested > in > > the > > > > > possible> > > > > > role of VitD and the MP. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the > same > > > side in> > > > > > which my ear infections over the last few years have > been > > > more > > > > > severe.> > > > > > When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes > are > > worse > > > > making> > > > > > me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial > > > infection.> > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much > worse > > than > > > it > > > > > has> > > > > > ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria > have > > been> > > > > > multiplying. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from > reading > > here > > > and > > > > > other> > > > > > sources that most are in agreement that chronic > > inflammation > > > is > > > > > fueled> > > > > > by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone > (I > > am > > > > > currently> > > > > > tapering), and push by my doctors to go on > methotrexate if> > > > > > inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate > my > > > infection > > > > and> > > > > > inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is > how > > to > > > fight> > > > > > the underlying infection. > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read > > about > > > Dr.> > > > > > Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the > > protocol, > > > the > > > > more> > > > > > doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of > long > > term > > > low> > > > > > dose antibiotic treatment. > > > > > > > > > > > > Are the members here in any agreement as to the best > way > > to > > > treat> > > > > > chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ > > minocycline > > > and > > > > > VitD> > > > > > avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could > > very > > > likely> > > > > > have fungal infections or coinfections that would > require > > > other> > > > > > stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might > be > > a > > > good > > > > > idea> > > > > > to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see > how my > > > > > inflammation> > > > > > responds. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, > to > > test my> > > > > > response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel > as > > though > > > it > > > > is> > > > > > going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD > reduction > > > coincides > > > > > with> > > > > > prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any > > thoughts > > > or> > > > > > suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can beat > this > > thing, > > > but > > > > I> > > > > > could really use some help. Thanks for listening > > everybody, > > > and > > > > let > > > > > me> > > > > > know what you think. > > > > > > > > > > > > Greg> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > > > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

December 31, 2007

Hi Nelly, Happy new year to you too! And to everyone here! You all are really a true source of comfort when dealing with this illness, and that's hard to find! Back to the UCSD Microbiologist. Yeah, I've talked about her before, but it's been a while since bringing it up. She's not guaranteeing that the bugs will be identical. She just says it's a lot more likely, especially when it comes to identifying resistant bugs (as Tony says), that if you can find them thriving on the surface, that they're going to be the same ones giving you problems in the less easy to reach areas, and that it makes more sense to treat based on resistances you can easily identify, than on guesswork. She does all kinds of swabs for my friend all the time, from all different areas, to help her determine her drug choices. It's actually unorthodox that she does cultures for my friend.

Normally, the hospital labs only work at the direction of doctors, but since my friend's i.d. doctor uses her lab, and my friend lives close by, she just pops in with swabs and talks with this specific microbiologist, who runs the tests and doesn't throw stuff out! She's done testing for me too, it's just a lot further away for me and I have a different doc, so it takes more effort for me to get work done at her lab. But I've talked with her, and she's in agreement with Tony that she'd rather have some information to go on than none. As a matter of fact, I should take her some swabs and see if she can identify what's going on in my sinuses right now, since my brilliant ENT has concluded that I've taken care of my bugs (and doesn't take my insurance anymore anyway). Interestingly, this micropbiologist also takes blood thinners as a disease preventative, and says she will for the rest of her life. My current dilemma and frustration is that even when I treat the bugs with the right abx, I only feel well when I'm taking the drug. I can't stop for even a day without having the sinus stuff come back. So I can hold the bugs back, I just can't eradicate them. That's the frustrating part. Right now, Cipro and Penicillin are the drugs that work for me, and have been for months, but I'm seriously risking the health of my tendons for the sake of keeping my infection down. That sucks. What I find so disheartening is that I can't find some way to get these bugs gone, without surgery. I'd go for the surgery if I felt I could find someone competent who'd get it all and then treat properly, but that's about as likely as hitting the lottery. So far, my surgeries have only made me sicker (which isn't all that uncommon). So I just keep trying to find some way to destroy the biofilms, and weaken the bugs and support my immune system in fighting

them (not to mention, locate a brilliant surgeon), before I actually have more suregery. penny Nelly Pointis <janel@...> wrote: Tony, Penny, So, in the end we're all in agreement re there is infection even when doctors tell you there isn't, and re comensal flora is not always benign or beneficial!! In fact I

knew we were, right from the start! My question all along was: do you think the bugs in reachable areas are also the ones that are located in more deeply seated sites? You have (finally!!) answered my question. Now, I finally know your opinion on this question, I am also interested in the opinion of this microbiologist at UCSD, Penny, who says surface bugs are the same ones as the ones that are responsible for deeper infection. I am keeping my options open on that, but I am glad we cleared up this on-going talking at cross purposes before the end of the year 2007, although Tony is almost in 2008 already! Happy New Year to all, Barb, Bob, , a, Penny, , , Tony in alphabetical order ) and to all the others I have not cited) Nelly (the not so tough French Chick!)

[infections] Re: Not to open a pandora's box on MP, but here it goes:::eye inflammation::: NellyIf you go back to any of your cultures, the missing link is the staph epi that is often the only thing that's there- isn't being reported...You know how that goes and the way the system works...If you send a thorat swab to a lab without huge amounts of specific requests, all they tell you is ytou have no pathogens detected.All labs are doing is checking you don't have streptococcus pyogenes..Everything else is irrelevant unless they are grilled by a caring doctor.The same things happen with UTI cultures- I grow staph epi till the cows come home and it never gets reported because the urine didn't cloud up.Clouding of the urine is the labs impression of a UTI, any bug that avoids this isn't causing you problems, yet I recall my urine looking like I was shredding large amounts of my

bladder on many occasions, only to get everythings normal on a report.Another thing I recall was my shins oozing a clear liquid, like biofilm(slime) early in the disease.... so I really don't think a huge problem is that invisable. Also I can just about culture my elbow and see similar bacterial patterns six months apart, so I feel confident the established organisms that are causing rot in a joint, have a foothold that we know is hard to clear... so your usual culprits are dominating over a long stretch and learning about these residents ain't a bad exercise.. it sure beats knowing nothing..And as ironic as this sounds my father died from pneumonia and no organisms were identified in his labs..> > > > > > > > > > Greg,> > > > > I disagree with Tony aka Dumbaussie, that it is easy > for us > > > laymen > > > > to > > > > > find out what bacteria we are infected with. I do agree > > with > > > Tony > > > > >

that inflammation indicates undiagnosed infection. It > may > > be c. > > > > > pneumonia, but it seems to me that would not be the > obvious > > > > diagosis > > > > > with eye inflammation.> > > > > > > > > > I want to make a middle of the road suggestion to you. > > Forget > > > about > > > > > avoiding D and sun. Try the antibiotics Marshall > suggests > >

> instead. > > > > If > > > > > your doctor is willing to subject you to methotrexate, > then > > he > > > > should > > > > > be willing to try minocycline which is approved to > treat > > > rheumatoid > > > > > arthritis BECAUSE IT REDUCES INFLAMMATION. > > > > > > > > > > He may also be willing to prescribe Zithromax because > it >

> also > > > > reduces > > > > > inflammation. Both of these antibiotics are effective > > against a > > > > > number of bacteria. If you get a bad reaction with the > > > minocycline > > > > > reduce the dose to about 100 mg every third day for > awhile.> > > > > > > > > > You may need to taper off the prednisone as well. > Assuming > > you > > > have

> > > > > an infection, of course, prednisone is the worst thing > you > > > could be > > > > > taking, but you still can't stop it all at once.> > > > > > > > > > Personally I think what works on the MP are the > > antibiotics, > > > not > > > > the > > > > > D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. > Who > > knows.> >

> > > > > > > > a Carnes> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Hey everybody,> > > > > > > > > > > > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on > the> > > > > > infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in > this > > > direction > > > > > by> >

> > > > a very helpful man, . 's website, email > > > correspondence, > > > > and> > > > > > subsequent links and information made me open to the > > idea, if > > > not> > > > > > entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation > is > > > > infectious > > > > > in> > > > > > nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but > >

research > > > and > > > > > have> > > > > > come to a few realizations.> > > > > > > > > > > > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of > the > > > sclera) > > > > 3> > > > > > years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, > and > > throat> > > > > > infection. I am in the category of those dealing with

> > > scleritis > > > > who > > > > > do> > > > > > not show signs of an underlying disease causing the > > > inflammation. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: > episodes > > of > > > sun> > > > > > poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested > in > > the

> > > > > possible> > > > > > role of VitD and the MP. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the > same > > > side in> > > > > > which my ear infections over the last few years have > been > > > more > > > > > severe.> > > > > > When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes > are

> > worse > > > > making> > > > > > me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial > > > infection.> > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much > worse > > than > > > it > > > > > has> > > > > > ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria > have > > been>

> > > > > multiplying. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from > reading > > here > > > and > > > > > other> > > > > > sources that most are in agreement that chronic > > inflammation > > > is > > > > > fueled> > > > > > by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone > (I

> > am > > > > > currently> > > > > > tapering), and push by my doctors to go on > methotrexate if> > > > > > inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate > my > > > infection > > > > and> > > > > > inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is > how > > to > > > fight> > > > > > the underlying infection. >

> > > > > > > > > > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read > > about > > > Dr.> > > > > > Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the > > protocol, > > > the > > > > more> > > > > > doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of > long > > term > > > low> > > > > > dose antibiotic

treatment. > > > > > > > > > > > > Are the members here in any agreement as to the best > way > > to > > > treat> > > > > > chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ > > minocycline > > > and > > > > > VitD> > > > > > avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could > > very > > > likely> > >

> > > have fungal infections or coinfections that would > require > > > other> > > > > > stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might > be > > a > > > good > > > > > idea> > > > > > to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see > how my > > > > > inflammation> > > > > > responds. > > > > > > > >

> > > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, > to > > test my> > > > > > response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel > as > > though > > > it > > > > is> > > > > > going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD > reduction > > > coincides > > > > > with> > > > > > prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any >

> thoughts > > > or> > > > > > suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can beat > this > > thing, > > > but > > > > I> > > > > > could really use some help. Thanks for listening > > everybody, > > > and > > > > let > > > > > me> > > > > > know what you think. > > > >

> > > > > > > > Greg> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > > > > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.> > > > >> > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

December 31, 2007

Tony, So I looked in to getting a swab sent to esoterix. Apparently they no longer do the cultures since they were bought out by labcorp and are now a subsidiary. I assume I should do the Bacterial, general, aerobic culture. If I do this through labcorp do you think they will be as thorough as their subsidiary esoterix? Should I give them special instructions in the search for toxins? Gregdumbaussie2000 <dumbaussie2000@...> wrote: Greg You'd get it 100% right if you sent a swab to esoterix labs, because they had a huge understanding about bacteria and TOXINS..Your eyes have a bacteria which is TOXIC and the TOXINS are fueling the inflammation.Most labs do things like they do in mcdonalds- it's on the menu, it's not on the menu. Forget blood tests and everything else the medical system can offer you..THEY ARE USELESS, AND THE SYSTEM IS FULL OF HOLES. It's basically a system which is driven by financial incentive RATHER than patient DIAGNOSIS. So without a doubt the bacteria that are all over your eyes are there in large numbers and are fuelling the inflammation. TAKE IT FROM SOMEONE THAT PLAYS WITH THESE THINGS DAILY.unfortunately many people are so focused on there own little thing on forums you lose the BIGGER PICTURE .. tony > > Greg, > I disagree with Tony aka Dumbaussie, that it is easy for us laymen to > find out what bacteria we are infected with. I do agree with Tony > that inflammation indicates undiagnosed infection. It may be c. > pneumonia, but it seems to me that would not be the obvious diagosis > with eye inflammation. > > I want to make a middle of the road suggestion to you. Forget about > avoiding D and sun. Try the antibiotics Marshall suggests instead. If > your doctor is willing to subject

you to methotrexate, then he should > be willing to try minocycline which is approved to treat rheumatoid > arthritis BECAUSE IT REDUCES INFLAMMATION. > > He may also be willing to prescribe Zithromax because it also reduces > inflammation. Both of these antibiotics are effective against a > number of bacteria. If you get a bad reaction with the minocycline > reduce the dose to about 100 mg every third day for awhile. > > You may need to taper off the prednisone as well. Assuming you have > an infection, of course, prednisone is the worst thing you could be > taking, but you still can't stop it all at once. > > Personally I think what works on the MP are the antibiotics, not the > D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. Who knows. > > a Carnes > > > > > Hey

everybody, > > > > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on the > > infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in this direction > by > > a very helpful man, . 's website, email correspondence, and > > subsequent links and information made me open to the idea, if not > > entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation is infectious > in > > nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but research and > have > > come to a few realizations. > > > > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of the sclera) 3 > > years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, and throat > > infection. I am in the category of those dealing with scleritis who > do > > not show signs of an underlying disease causing the inflammation. >

> > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: episodes of sun > > poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested in the > possible > > role of VitD and the MP. > > > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the same side in > > which my ear infections over the last few years have been more > severe. > > When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes are worse making > > me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial infection. > > > > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much worse than it > has > > ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria have been > > multiplying. > > > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from reading here and > other > > sources that most are in agreement that chronic

inflammation is > fueled > > by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone (I am > currently > > tapering), and push by my doctors to go on methotrexate if > > inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate my infection and > > inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is how to fight > > the underlying infection. > > > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read about Dr. > > Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the protocol, the more > > doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of long term low > > dose antibiotic treatment. > > > > Are the members here in any agreement as to the best way to treat > > chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ minocycline and > VitD > > avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could

very likely > > have fungal infections or coinfections that would require other > > stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might be a good > idea > > to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see how my > inflammation > > responds. > > > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, to test my > > response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel as though it is > > going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD reduction coincides > with > > prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any thoughts or > > suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can beat this thing, but I > > could really use some help. Thanks for listening everybody, and let > me > > know what you think. > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. >

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December 31, 2007

Sorry you went to the trouble, Greg. Boy you're on top of things, though. I admire that! Yeah, Tony should have told you that Esoterix infectious disease specialty lab was bought out by Labcorp, and I highly doubt that they are continuing in the tradition of Esoterix. I could be wrong, perhaps it's the only Labcorp in the country that doesn't dismiss everything as "normal flora" and/or "contamination". Your best chance would be to have your doc, if he'll cooperate, to tell the lab NOT to throw out anything that is typically considered "normal flora" and to let it grow out for more than a couple of days. Give it a week. Some of our organisms are a little slower to show themselves, especially fungi, etc. Also, if he'll use a local hospital or university lab that has a more personalized approach and relationship with doctors, you'd probably be better off. These kinds of labs complain about the interference, but they also

say the best infectious disease docs are the ones looking over their shoulders all the time. Of course, finding the doc willing to do that is a whole 'nother feat. Sometimes it's best to ask lab and hospital personnel, like nurses, who their least favorite, most annoying i.d. docs are. It tells you how picky they are and how on top of their patient's illness, and how determined they are to get to the bottom of it. penny Greg <greginnz2004@...> wrote: Tony, So I looked in to getting a swab sent to esoterix. Apparently they no longer do the cultures since they were bought out by labcorp and are now a subsidiary. I assume I should do the Bacterial, general, aerobic culture. If I do this through labcorp do you think they will be as thorough as their subsidiary esoterix? Should I give them special instructions in the search for toxins? Gregdumbaussie2000 <dumbaussie2000 .au> wrote: GregYou'd get it 100% right if you sent a swab to esoterix labs, because they had a huge understanding about bacteria and TOXINS..Your eyes have a bacteria which is TOXIC and the TOXINS are fueling the inflammation.Most labs do things like they do in mcdonalds- it's on the menu, it's

not on the menu.Forget blood tests and everything else the medical system can offer you..THEY ARE USELESS, AND THE SYSTEM IS FULL OF HOLES. It's basically a system which is driven by financial incentive RATHER than patient DIAGNOSIS. So without a doubt the bacteria that are all over your eyes are there in large numbers and are fuelling the inflammation. TAKE IT FROM SOMEONE THAT PLAYS WITH THESE THINGS DAILY.unfortunately many people are so focused on there own little thing on forums you lose the BIGGER PICTURE ..tony > > Greg,> I disagree with Tony aka Dumbaussie, that it is easy for us laymen to > find out what bacteria we are infected with. I do agree with Tony > that inflammation indicates

undiagnosed infection. It may be c. > pneumonia, but it seems to me that would not be the obvious diagosis > with eye inflammation.> > I want to make a middle of the road suggestion to you. Forget about > avoiding D and sun. Try the antibiotics Marshall suggests instead. If > your doctor is willing to subject you to methotrexate, then he should > be willing to try minocycline which is approved to treat rheumatoid > arthritis BECAUSE IT REDUCES INFLAMMATION. > > He may also be willing to prescribe Zithromax because it also reduces > inflammation. Both of these antibiotics are effective against a > number of bacteria. If you get a bad reaction with the minocycline > reduce the dose to about 100 mg every third day for awhile.> > You may need to taper off the prednisone as well. Assuming you have > an infection, of course, prednisone is the worst

thing you could be > taking, but you still can't stop it all at once.> > Personally I think what works on the MP are the antibiotics, not the > D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. Who knows.> > a Carnes> > >> > Hey everybody,> > > > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on the> > infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in this direction > by> > a very helpful man, . 's website, email correspondence, and> > subsequent links and information made me open to the idea, if not> > entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation is infectious > in> > nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but research and > have> > come to a few realizations.> > > > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of the sclera)

3> > years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, and throat> > infection. I am in the category of those dealing with scleritis who > do> > not show signs of an underlying disease causing the inflammation. > > > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: episodes of sun> > poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested in the > possible> > role of VitD and the MP. > > > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the same side in> > which my ear infections over the last few years have been more > severe.> > When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes are worse making> > me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial infection.> > > > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much worse than it > has> > ever been. I take this as a sign that

the bacteria have been> > multiplying. > > > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from reading here and > other> > sources that most are in agreement that chronic inflammation is > fueled> > by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone (I am > currently> > tapering), and push by my doctors to go on methotrexate if> > inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate my infection and> > inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is how to fight> > the underlying infection. > > > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read about Dr.> > Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the protocol, the more> > doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of long term low> > dose antibiotic treatment. > > > > Are the members here in any agreement as to

the best way to treat> > chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ minocycline and > VitD> > avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could very likely> > have fungal infections or coinfections that would require other> > stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might be a good > idea> > to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see how my > inflammation> > responds. > > > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, to test my> > response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel as though it is> > going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD reduction coincides > with> > prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any thoughts or> > suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can beat this thing, but I> > could really use some help. Thanks for listening everybody, and

let > me> > know what you think. > > > > Greg> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

January 3, 2008

Dear Tony

I haven't noticed any difference :-)

R

[infections] Re: Not to open a pandora's box on MP, but here it goes:::eye inflammation:::

Greg M ke boards s uffed..I hink he advice our ge ing is grea hough.cheers> > > > Greg,> > I disagree with Tony aka Dumbaussie, that it is easy for us laymen > to > > find out what bacteria we are infected with. I do agree with Tony > > that inflammation indicates undiagnosed infection. It may be c. > > pneumonia, but it seems to me that would not be the obvious > diagosis > > with eye inflammation.> > > > I want to make a middle of the road suggestion to you. Forget about > > avoiding D and sun. Try the antibiotics Marshall suggests instead. > If > > your doctor is willing to subject you to methotrexate, then he > should > > be willing to try minocycline which is approved to treat rheumatoid > > arthritis BECAUSE IT REDUCES INFLAMMATION. > > > > He may also be willing to prescribe Zithromax because it also > reduces > > inflammation. Both of these antibiotics are effective against a > > number of bacteria. If you get a bad reaction with the minocycline > > reduce the dose to about 100 mg every third day for awhile.> > > > You may need to taper off the prednisone as well. Assuming you have > > an infection, of course, prednisone is the worst thing you could be > > taking, but you still can't stop it all at once.> > > > Personally I think what works on the MP are the antibiotics, not > the > > D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. Who knows.> > > > a Carnes> > > > >> > > Hey everybody,> > > > > > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on the> > > infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in this direction > > by> > > a very helpful man, . 's website, email correspondence, > and> > > subsequent links and information made me open to the idea, if not> > > entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation is > infectious > > in> > > nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but research and > > have> > > come to a few realizations.> > > > > > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of the sclera) > 3> > > years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, and throat> > > infection. I am in the category of those dealing with scleritis > who > > do> > > not show signs of an underlying disease causing the inflammation. > > > > > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: episodes of sun> > > poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested in the > > possible> > > role of VitD and the MP. > > > > > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the same side in> > > which my ear infections over the last few years have been more > > severe.> > > When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes are worse > making> > > me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial infection.> > > > > > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much worse than it > > has> > > ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria have been> > > multiplying. > > > > > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from reading here and > > other> > > sources that most are in agreement that chronic inflammation is > > fueled> > > by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone (I am > > currently> > > tapering), and push by my doctors to go on methotrexate if> > > inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate my infection > and> > > inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is how to fight> > > the underlying infection. > > > > > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read about Dr.> > > Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the protocol, the > more> > > doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of long term low> > > dose antibiotic treatment. > > > > > > Are the members here in any agreement as to the best way to treat> > > chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ minocycline and > > VitD> > > avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could very likely> > > have fungal infections or coinfections that would require other> > > stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might be a good > > idea> > > to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see how my > > inflammation> > > responds. > > > > > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, to test my> > > response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel as though it > is> > > going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD reduction coincides > > with> > > prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any thoughts or> > > suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can beat this thing, but > I> > > could really use some help. Thanks for listening everybody, and > let > > me> > > know what you think. > > > > > > Greg> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.> >> > > > > > > ---------------------------------> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.>

January 3, 2008

lolOn 3 Jan 2008, at 07:59, Windsor wrote:Dear TonyI haven't noticed any difference :-)R [infections] Re: Not to open a pandora's box on MP, but here it goes:::eye inflammation:::Greg M ke boards s uffed..I hink he advice our ge ing is grea hough.cheers> > > > Greg,> > I disagree with Tony aka Dumbaussie, that it is easy for us laymen > to > > find out what bacteria we are infected with. I do agree with Tony > > that inflammation indicates undiagnosed infection. It may be c. > > pneumonia, but it seems to me that would not be the obvious > diagosis > > with eye inflammation.> > > > I want to make a middle of the road suggestion to you. Forget about > > avoiding D and sun. Try the antibiotics Marshall suggests instead. > If > > your doctor is willing to subject you to methotrexate, then he > should > > be willing to try minocycline which is approved to treat rheumatoid > > arthritis BECAUSE IT REDUCES INFLAMMATION. > > > > He may also be willing to prescribe Zithromax because it also > reduces > > inflammation. Both of these antibiotics are effective against a > > number of bacteria. If you get a bad reaction with the minocycline > > reduce the dose to about 100 mg every third day for awhile.> > > > You may need to taper off the prednisone as well. Assuming you have > > an infection, of course, prednisone is the worst thing you could be > > taking, but you still can't stop it all at once.> > > > Personally I think what works on the MP are the antibiotics, not > the > > D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. Who knows.> > > > a Carnes> > > > >> > > Hey everybody,> > > > > > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on the> > > infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in this direction > > by> > > a very helpful man, . 's website, email correspondence, > and> > > subsequent links and information made me open to the idea, if not> > > entirely convinced, that my chronic eye inflammation is > infectious > > in> > > nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but research and > > have> > > come to a few realizations.> > > > > > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of the sclera) > 3> > > years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, and throat> > > infection. I am in the category of those dealing with scleritis > who > > do> > > not show signs of an underlying disease causing the inflammation. > > > > > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: episodes of sun> > > poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested in the > > possible> > > role of VitD and the MP. > > > > > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the same side in> > > which my ear infections over the last few years have been more > > severe.> > > When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes are worse > making> > > me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial infection.> > > > > > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much worse than it > > has> > > ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria have been> > > multiplying. > > > > > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from reading here and > > other> > > sources that most are in agreement that chronic inflammation is > > fueled> > > by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone (I am > > currently> > > tapering), and push by my doctors to go on methotrexate if> > > inflammation is not resolved, will only exaccerbate my infection > and> > > inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is how to fight> > > the underlying infection. > > > > > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read about Dr.> > > Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the protocol, the > more> > > doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of long term low> > > dose antibiotic treatment. > > > > > > Are the members here in any agreement as to the best way to treat> > > chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ minocycline and > > VitD> > > avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could very likely> > > have fungal infections or coinfections that would require other> > > stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might be a good > > idea> > > to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see how my > > inflammation> > > responds. > > > > > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, to test my> > > response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel as though it > is> > > going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD reduction coincides > > with> > > prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any thoughts or> > > suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can beat this thing, but > I> > > could really use some help. Thanks for listening everybody, and > let > > me> > > know what you think. > > > > > > Greg> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.> >> > > > > > > ---------------------------------> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.>

January 3, 2008

, You could understand that? I must be slipping. penny Windsor <rwindsor@...> wrote: Dear Tony I haven't noticed any difference :-) R [infections] Re: Not to open a pandora's box on MP, but here it goes:::eye inflammation::: Greg M ke boards s uffed..I hink he advice our ge ing is grea hough.cheers> > > > Greg,> > I disagree with Tony aka Dumbaussie, that it is easy for us laymen > to > > find out what bacteria we are infected with. I do agree with Tony

> > that inflammation indicates undiagnosed infection. It may be c. > > pneumonia, but it seems to me that would not be the obvious > diagosis > > with eye inflammation.> > > > I want to make a middle of the road suggestion to you. Forget about > > avoiding D and sun. Try the antibiotics Marshall suggests instead. > If > > your doctor is willing to subject you to methotrexate, then he > should > > be willing to try minocycline which is approved to treat rheumatoid > > arthritis BECAUSE IT REDUCES INFLAMMATION. > > > > He may also be willing to prescribe Zithromax because it also > reduces > > inflammation. Both of these antibiotics are effective against a > > number of bacteria. If you get a bad reaction with the minocycline > > reduce the dose to about 100 mg every third day for

awhile.> > > > You may need to taper off the prednisone as well. Assuming you have > > an infection, of course, prednisone is the worst thing you could be > > taking, but you still can't stop it all at once.> > > > Personally I think what works on the MP are the antibiotics, not > the > > D avoidance. YOu may actually need more D, not less. Who knows.> > > > a Carnes> > > > >> > > Hey everybody,> > > > > > My name is Greg, and this is my first time posting on the> > > infection and inflammation group. I was pointed in this direction > > by> > > a very helpful man, . 's website, email correspondence, > and> > > subsequent links and information made me open to the idea, if not> > > entirely convinced, that my

chronic eye inflammation is > infectious > > in> > > nature. I have spent the holidays doing nothing but research and > > have> > > come to a few realizations.> > > > > > 1. My onset of scleritis (chronic eye inflammation of the sclera) > 3> > > years ago coincided with a few bouts of sinus, ear, and throat> > > infection. I am in the category of those dealing with scleritis > who > > do> > > not show signs of an underlying disease causing the inflammation. > > > > > > 2. I have a history of overexposure to sun. ie: episodes of sun> > > poisoning and snow blindness. This made me interested in the > > possible> > > role of VitD and the MP. > > > > > > 3. My eye inflammation is worse on my left side, the same side in>

> > which my ear infections over the last few years have been more > > severe.> > > When my sinuses are irritated or infected, my eyes are worse > making> > > me believe it is all stemming from the same bacterial infection.> > > > > > 4. Almost 2 months ago my scleritis flared up much worse than it > > has> > > ever been. I take this as a sign that the bacteria have been> > > multiplying. > > > > > > I don't want to seem naive, but I can tell from reading here and > > other> > > sources that most are in agreement that chronic inflammation is > > fueled> > > by bacteria. Therefore, my current use of prednisone (I am > > currently> > > tapering), and push by my doctors to go on methotrexate if> > > inflammation is not resolved, will only

exaccerbate my infection > and> > > inflammation. It sounds as though the disagreement is how to fight> > > the underlying infection. > > > > > > Of course the MP sounds enticing, but the more I read about Dr.> > > Marshall and the lack of long term testing of the protocol, the > more> > > doubts I have. I'm also worried about the safety of long term low> > > dose antibiotic treatment. > > > > > > Are the members here in any agreement as to the best way to treat> > > chronic eye inflammation? Is benicar combined w/ minocycline and > > VitD> > > avoidance an accepted treatment? I understand I could very likely> > > have fungal infections or coinfections that would require other> > > stronger antibiotics. I also understand that it might be a good

> > idea> > > to use the benicar as a therapeutic probe, and see how my > > inflammation> > > responds. > > > > > > I am in the process of cutting out sources of VitD, to test my> > > response and just in case I decide to do MP. I feel as though it > is> > > going to be tough to gauge results if my VitD reduction coincides > > with> > > prednisone weaning and introduction of benicar. Any thoughts or> > > suggestions? I do believe that somehow I can beat this thing, but > I> > > could really use some help. Thanks for listening everybody, and > let > > me> > > know what you think. > > > > > > Greg> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.> >> > > > > > > ---------------------------------> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.>

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