Re: 8 million yr old frozen bacteria revived - (?)

[Guest guest]

Yeah, this was the whole premise behind Jurassic Park, remember? I guess I shouldn't complain about my bugs so much. With all the gene swapping going on, some could be related to me. Some could even be my great, great, great (etc.) grandparents, coming back for a visit. :-) penny <usenethod@...> wrote: http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070806/full/070806-4.htmlInvestigation into ancient viable bacteria has gone on for decades, asreviewed extensively by R Morita. A recent promontory in this debate involved the reviving of cells fromancient amber. This was published in Science... so it may or may nothave been true, but certainly wasn't a load of crap. Lots of peoplewere unconvinced, citing contamination and theoretic concerns over theavailability of energy for DNA repair, since some spontaneous DNAdegradations such as depurination proceed relatively rapidly underphysiologic conditions. It's possible the bioenergetic concerns couldbe answered by trace metabolism supported by assimilation of traceorganic molecules. I don't know quite what to think of the whole thing, but if true itsure illustrates the resilience of

nonmetabolising bacteria.

[Guest guest]

> Yeah, this was the whole premise behind Jurassic Park, remember?

Cept these varmints actually come to your door ready to rock - it's

not just DNA that has to be put into a cell like Jurassic Park! Now,

let me tell you something, they can hang tough on ice for 8 million

years, but if 5 days of doxy doesn't clear up your disease then

bacteria must not be a factor in it. Ha ha ha.

I dono if that Jurassic Park thing is actually possible, as the DNA

gets pretty degraded if the cell isn't alive to repair the DNA damage

lesions as they are created. I've heard that there are 10,000

spontaneous depurinations of the DNA each day, in each one of your 10

trillion cells. Virtually 100.000000% of those need to be repaired

ASAP by an enzyme that burns one or two ATP each time. Therefore, you

better go make yourself a sandwich. I don't think those depurinations

happen in DNA that is outside the breathing cell - but such DNA does

get pretty banged up by cosmic radiation etc.

> I guess I shouldn't complain about my bugs so much. With all the

gene swapping going on, some could be related to me. Some could even

be my great, great, great (etc.) grandparents, coming back for a

visit. :-)

It's quite true. On another level, varmints are also the Ancestors. A

little filial piety wouldn't be out of place.

Varmints are also the mitochondria, of course. I think the bacteria

that became the mitochondria must have gotten that way by achieving

universal infection of the first proto-eucaryote cells. The

alternative history, that the mitochondria's current enslaved status

came about because proto-eucaryotes ingested them, doesn't make much

sense if you ponder the evolutionary steps in detail.

Conflict is truly the story of biology, and evolution is a twisted

path. At one time, *eating* hadn't been invented yet. No organism

could ingest a particle; they could only reel in very small molecules

just as is the case for bacteria today. The world was just a bunch of

molecule-sucking bacteria, starving and fighting each other over

energy - or, in the case of photosynthetic bacteria that made their

own energy, the starvation and fighting would have to do with limiting

elemental nutrients like phosphorous and nitrogen.

Imagine the feeding frenzy when the proto-eucaryotes (probably still

basically bacterial in nature) suddenly shed the rigid cell wall and

thus became able to invent eating (phagocytosis) for the first time,

in a world totally defenseless. What a massacre! The very first eaters

to evolve may have overrun the entire globe within a matter of weeks.

But it wasn't long at all before the first cells that could survive

phagocytosis evolved... that event marked the invention of bacterial

infection (viral infection must have already existed). But the

mitochondria were so good at infecting the first eaters, that they

became totally specialized. Once they couldn't survive outside the

eater and there were no more uninfected eaters to exploit, the fitness

of the mitochondrion became 100% concordant with the fitness of the

eater that carried it, and thus the mitochondrion became a symbiont,

basically a slave or a tool or machine. They didn't die, just stopped

being alive. Too bad for them. What a trip. War is shared and conflict

is justice, as Heraclitus said.

Now that's some really ancient history. As Nietzsche says, what most

people call world history is really just much ado about the latest events.

Then intelligence evolved, people made some awesome movies and stuff.

Who knows what will happen next. The universe is pretty wild, even a

dying monkey on a boring planet has got to admit.

[Guest guest]

If we're gonna get all philisophical, check this out. The Buddhists don't believe in "large". They believe "reality" exists in the very small. That the vastest of universes exist in particles invisible to the naked eye. So to extrapolate, what the general public doesn't understand is that these tiniest of bacteria, which we're helping mutate through our own ignorance, actually have the potential to be far more destructive than all the natural disasters or the wildest sci-fi monster scenarios our writers could ever dream up. By the way, the Buddhists also believe that ALL of this is nothing but a construct of our own imaginations anyway...so there you go. :-) penny <usenethod@...> wrote: > Yeah, this was the whole premise behind Jurassic Park, remember?Cept these varmints actually come to your door ready to rock - it'snot just DNA that has to be put into a cell like Jurassic Park! Now,let me tell you something, they can hang tough on ice for 8 millionyears, but if 5 days of doxy doesn't clear up your disease thenbacteria must not be a factor in it. Ha ha ha. I dono if that Jurassic Park thing is actually possible, as the DNAgets pretty degraded if the cell isn't alive to repair the DNA damagelesions as they are created. I've heard that there are

10,000spontaneous depurinations of the DNA each day, in each one of your 10trillion cells. Virtually 100.000000% of those need to be repairedASAP by an enzyme that burns one or two ATP each time. Therefore, youbetter go make yourself a sandwich. I don't think those depurinationshappen in DNA that is outside the breathing cell - but such DNA doesget pretty banged up by cosmic radiation etc.> I guess I shouldn't complain about my bugs so much. With all thegene swapping going on, some could be related to me. Some could evenbe my great, great, great (etc.) grandparents, coming back for avisit. :-) It's quite true. On another level, varmints are also the Ancestors. Alittle filial piety wouldn't be out of place.Varmints are also the mitochondria, of course. I think the bacteriathat became the mitochondria must have gotten that way by achievinguniversal infection of the first proto-eucaryote cells.

Thealternative history, that the mitochondria's current enslaved statuscame about because proto-eucaryotes ingested them, doesn't make muchsense if you ponder the evolutionary steps in detail. Conflict is truly the story of biology, and evolution is a twistedpath. At one time, *eating* hadn't been invented yet. No organismcould ingest a particle; they could only reel in very small moleculesjust as is the case for bacteria today. The world was just a bunch ofmolecule-sucking bacteria, starving and fighting each other overenergy - or, in the case of photosynthetic bacteria that made theirown energy, the starvation and fighting would have to do with limitingelemental nutrients like phosphorous and nitrogen. Imagine the feeding frenzy when the proto-eucaryotes (probably stillbasically bacterial in nature) suddenly shed the rigid cell wall andthus became able to invent eating (phagocytosis) for the first

time,in a world totally defenseless. What a massacre! The very first eatersto evolve may have overrun the entire globe within a matter of weeks.But it wasn't long at all before the first cells that could survivephagocytosis evolved... that event marked the invention of bacterialinfection (viral infection must have already existed). But themitochondria were so good at infecting the first eaters, that theybecame totally specialized. Once they couldn't survive outside theeater and there were no more uninfected eaters to exploit, the fitnessof the mitochondrion became 100% concordant with the fitness of theeater that carried it, and thus the mitochondrion became a symbiont,basically a slave or a tool or machine. They didn't die, just stoppedbeing alive. Too bad for them. What a trip. War is shared and conflictis justice, as Heraclitus said.Now that's some really ancient history. As Nietzsche says, what mostpeople

call world history is really just much ado about the latest events.Then intelligence evolved, people made some awesome movies and stuff.Who knows what will happen next. The universe is pretty wild, even adying monkey on a boring planet has got to admit.

[Guest guest]

Traveling in the Direction of Smallness

Under the most rigorously controlled conditions of pressure,

temperature, humidity, and other variables, the organism will do as

it damn well pleases. - Anonymous

I have stood at the rim of the Grand Canyon

and looked over the edge.

I had the feeling that if such a chasm were to open up,

earthquake-like,

beneath my city

the entire town would have been

swallowed up.

But recently I have had an experience

traveling in the direction of smallness

that was even more impressive.

A doctor in our town had started doing a test

called live blood cell analysis or dark screen microscopy.

This blood test is supposed to reveal how healthy the blood is

and what pathogens may be found there.

I sat chatting with the doctor,

a darkened TV screen between us,

quite oblivious to the wonder about to unfold there.

The doctor, protecting himself from me with rubber gloves,

drew seven drops of blood from my pinkie finger

and placed them on seven slides.

He proceeded to slide the blood drops

under a high-powered electron microscope

and project what he was seeing on the now brightly-lit TV screen.

I saw movement, round doughnuts floating around

like slow motion bump cars at an amusement park.

In between the large red doughnuts were fuzzy leukocytes,

lymphocytes,

and clumpy-looking macrophages.

What had only been words to me for years, now took on a life.

Suddenly in a burst of recognition I thought,

" These are my blood cells, and they are still alive. "

What those few cells under the microscope are doing

billions more are doing inside my body.

That is why I am alive.

Suddenly I noticed one of the big fuzzy cells spitting out a purplish

jet of fluid.

It floated inexorably around a rapidly swimming little bacteria

like a purple pool of poison.

Next the entire cell wrapped fuzzy paws around the purple area

and ate it up in one slow gulp.

I had just witnessed the death of a bacteria my body didn't like.

I almost cheered.

We looked closely at those leukocytes, my doctor and I.

The mycoplasma infection I had, if it was still there,

would be hidden inside of those large fuzzy cells.

Once I saw something like a short blue worm crawl out of a leukocyte.

The doctor said, " Probably a virus,

but that is what the mycoplasma would look like if we saw it

reproducing. "

He felt that there was so little activity that I didn't have a

problem.

I hoped he was right.

As we watched, and he explained more and more details,

the picture slowly began to change.

Red blood cells, once nice and fat and doughnut shaped,

began to flatten, get strange points on one side,

and finally, get scalloped edges like the flowers little kids draw.

They looked cute until the doctor said,

" You know, healthy blood should keep up to four hours, but yours is

dying. "

We had only been watching about fifteen minutes.

I felt my stomach turn over.

I had not beat this bastard disease yet.

I was looking at death from the inside out.

There was talk of oxidative stress and supplements

to boost the immune system and get rid of free radicals.

I listened closely and wrote down what to take

because I wanted my red blood cells to be fat and healthy for a long

time.

But in the end I couldn't get away from the impression that I had

been an ant

sitting on the edge of the Grand Canyon.

c a Carnes

http://www.paulacarnes.com

[Guest guest]

I had that blood analysis done too, unintentionally (trying to get a

fixed Giemsa- stain for babesia) and it was the awesomest thing

I've ever seen... but how come no one believes in its validity except

weird alt med people (I'm totally normal myself, ha ha)?

When I asked the guy, hey, what's the epistemology of these claims, he

said it came from Bradford himself. I hope Bradford wrote his stuff

down rather than communicating it to his students through ineffable

poetic interactions, since that's great for zen but not so good for

science. So what actually proves that XYZ is a mycoplasma? Did

Bradford ever light them up with fluorescent antibodies, and write it

up? I'd be glad to learn otherwise, but the way it comes off it sounds

like he just made it all up.

It does look totally awesome though.

[Guest guest]

ERic, that is why I wrote a poetry book, not a science book.

Meanwhile I am trying to decide if I should get the babesia test done

at Fry Lab in sdale, AZ. Have any of you ever heard of this lab?

An MD I know is encouraging me to get the test run, but I don't know.

I understand it is a microscopy test. My doc here is pretty funny. I

showed her the article about the lab with the photo. She smiled and

said that the picture looked just like her former patient's picture

and she wondered if they just sent the same picture to everyone, and

they were all positive.

Meanwhile, no clues as to what is causing my headache. Is it day 390

something? Shut-up, Tony, unless you want to come over here and buy

the next round of drinks.

a

>

>

> I had that blood analysis done too, unintentionally (trying to get a

> fixed Giemsa- stain for babesia) and it was the awesomest

thing

> I've ever seen... but how come no one believes in its validity

except

> weird alt med people (I'm totally normal myself, ha ha)?

>

> When I asked the guy, hey, what's the epistemology of these claims,

he

> said it came from Bradford himself. I hope Bradford wrote his stuff

> down rather than communicating it to his students through ineffable

> poetic interactions, since that's great for zen but not so good for

> science. So what actually proves that XYZ is a mycoplasma? Did

> Bradford ever light them up with fluorescent antibodies, and write

it

> up? I'd be glad to learn otherwise, but the way it comes off it

sounds

> like he just made it all up.

>

> It does look totally awesome though.

>

[Guest guest]

> Meanwhile, no clues as to what is causing my headache. Is it day 390

> something? Shut-up, Tony, unless you want to come over here and buy

> the next round of drinks.

Well, I sure feel sorry for you, having had an awful brux headache

(complete with brain fog and on-and-off jaw ache) for several days

last week. I fought back pretty effectively with gobs of caffeine, but

it was still the pits.

Looks like I'm now bruxing on doxy or metro, which was not the case

before. I may need to start taking buspirone or something.

So I nominate bruxism, though I know I already said that and though

ICH sounds just as good. You could try taking a GABAergic before bed

(such as GABA itself on an empty stomach, taurine, what have you),

though I doubt that is a very sensitive test for bruxism.

[Guest guest]

Yeah, Bradford lives in San Diego and wasn't at all well himself last I heard. He lives with an i.v. port in his chest all the time, or so I was told. I went to the original clinic in Mexico that bought the rights to some of his therapies and it was actually pretty funny. When my friend had her blood put under the microscope, the docs got their wires crossed. One doc came in and told her what we were seeing was bacteria. Then his associate came in and told her the same little squiggly guys were yeast. And unbeknownst to them both, we were sitting there with a doctor who also owned his own Bradford microscope. He had his own ideas about what we were seeing...parasites. :-) Needless to say, my confidence in the Bradford analysis method dropped pretty significantly, although it is easy enough to see that some of the stuff you're looking at, shouldn't look the way it looks. Whether the blood cells dying too quickly

is true, I don't know. It seems like they all say that, but then everyone I know who's gone to the trouble of having their blood analyzed this way was sick, so who knows, it could be true? penny <usenethod@...> wrote: I had that blood analysis done too, unintentionally (trying to get afixed Giemsa- stain for babesia) and it was the awesomest thingI've ever seen... but how come no one believes in its validity exceptweird alt med people (I'm totally normal myself, ha

ha)? When I asked the guy, hey, what's the epistemology of these claims, hesaid it came from Bradford himself. I hope Bradford wrote his stuffdown rather than communicating it to his students through ineffablepoetic interactions, since that's great for zen but not so good forscience. So what actually proves that XYZ is a mycoplasma? DidBradford ever light them up with fluorescent antibodies, and write itup? I'd be glad to learn otherwise, but the way it comes off it soundslike he just made it all up.It does look totally awesome though.

[Guest guest]

That reminds me. Tony used to go ape over those very photos. Everyone was claiming the cells were infected with something which I can't recall, and Tony would say that the size was completely wrong for that particular organism. I can't remember what it was but he can probably refresh our memories. Unfortunately, I think you've got a lot of people interpreting the blood who don't know their stuff, and that gives the whole thing a bad name, when it could potentially be useful. I know that here in California, having one of those dark field microscopes in a doctor's office is cause for getting one's practice shut down. My friend who died left one with my doc, who didn't know that. When he found out, he got it out of there fast. My doc is very open minded. He's always looking for some kind of alternative cure, probably out of desperation. I actually met a guy at his office who wanted to do a computer

analysis of a couple of us. Something where he wired us up to a computer which gave us read outs of what was wrong with us. Well, according to the computer, I effectively had every infection and virus known to man, while my friend with the confirmed hep C infection, came up clear. The topper was, for $50, this guy would send my photo to someone in the midwest who would be able to tell me a lot more about the specifics of my illness, just by looking at my photo. I wasn't feeling good at the time so I looked like death warmed over in his polaroid. Wouldn't have taken a genius to know I was sick. Fortunately, even my doc thought this guy was nuts. It's a good thing. If he'd told me anything else, I probably would have slapped him silly. :-) It is kind of fun, though, testing out all this whacky stuff. At least it points out that even illness can be funny some times. The not so funny thing is, there are a lot of

people spending a lot of money for this computer analysis thing and they're buying into the results, too. pennypjeanneus <pj7@...> wrote: ERic, that is why I wrote a poetry book, not a science book. Meanwhile I am trying to decide if I should get the babesia test done at Fry Lab in sdale, AZ. Have any of you ever heard of this lab? An MD I know is encouraging me to get the test run, but I don't know. I understand it is a microscopy test. My doc here

is pretty funny. I showed her the article about the lab with the photo. She smiled and said that the picture looked just like her former patient's picture and she wondered if they just sent the same picture to everyone, and they were all positive.Meanwhile, no clues as to what is causing my headache. Is it day 390 something? Shut-up, Tony, unless you want to come over here and buy the next round of drinks.a>> > I had that blood analysis done too, unintentionally (trying to get a> fixed Giemsa- stain for babesia) and it was the awesomest thing> I've ever seen... but how come no one believes in its validity except> weird alt med people (I'm totally normal myself, ha ha)? > > When I asked the guy, hey, what's the epistemology of these claims, he> said it came from Bradford himself. I hope Bradford wrote his stuff> down rather than

communicating it to his students through ineffable> poetic interactions, since that's great for zen but not so good for> science. So what actually proves that XYZ is a mycoplasma? Did> Bradford ever light them up with fluorescent antibodies, and write it> up? I'd be glad to learn otherwise, but the way it comes off it sounds> like he just made it all up.> > It does look totally awesome though.>

[Guest guest]

The last two nights I used an old dental guard I had. It sort of

helped. But then by ten am the head pressure returned. It's like

everything helps a little but nothing really works. I have some GABA.

Maybe I should take it at bedtime.

Part of the problem is the severe brainfog. I really cannot recall

things, details, like what people have even told me to try. I look at

the bottles in the closet and can't recall why I bought them. It is

scary.

a

>

>

> > Meanwhile, no clues as to what is causing my headache. Is it day

390

> > something? Shut-up, Tony, unless you want to come over here and

buy

> > the next round of drinks.

>

> Well, I sure feel sorry for you, having had an awful brux headache

> (complete with brain fog and on-and-off jaw ache) for several days

> last week. I fought back pretty effectively with gobs of caffeine,

but

> it was still the pits.

>

> Looks like I'm now bruxing on doxy or metro, which was not the case

> before. I may need to start taking buspirone or something.

>

> So I nominate bruxism, though I know I already said that and though

> ICH sounds just as good. You could try taking a GABAergic before bed

> (such as GABA itself on an empty stomach, taurine, what have you),

> though I doubt that is a very sensitive test for bruxism.

>

[Guest guest]

Just for the record, I wrote that story about my blood cell analysis

in Dr. Cheney's office, but the study was done by Dr. Hyams who

moved to the UK. About 5 years later I had my blood studied by Dr.

Streight in Charlotte, NC. Basically, it looked the same in both

studies. Hyams actually looked at it twice, 3 months apart. During

that time I had stopped the Zithromax and relapsed. I looked much

worse, the blood did, at that second exam. I think both Hyams and

Straight actually had a pretty good idea what they were looking for.

But I still wonder if anyone on this list has used the lab in

sdale, Fry Labs for a babesia test????

a

>

> Yeah, Bradford lives in San Diego and wasn't at all well himself

last I heard. He lives with an i.v. port in his chest all the time,

or so I was told. I went to the original clinic in Mexico that bought

the rights to some of his therapies and it was actually pretty funny.

When my friend had her blood put under the microscope, the docs got

their wires crossed. One doc came in and told her what we were seeing

was bacteria. Then his associate came in and told her the same little

squiggly guys were yeast. And unbeknownst to them both, we were

sitting there with a doctor who also owned his own Bradford

microscope. He had his own ideas about what we were

seeing...parasites. :-)

>

> Needless to say, my confidence in the Bradford analysis method

dropped pretty significantly, although it is easy enough to see that

some of the stuff you're looking at, shouldn't look the way it looks.

Whether the blood cells dying too quickly is true, I don't know. It

seems like they all say that, but then everyone I know who's gone to

the trouble of having their blood analyzed this way was sick, so who

knows, it could be true?

>

> penny

>

> <usenethod@...> wrote:

>

> I had that blood analysis done too, unintentionally (trying to get a

> fixed Giemsa- stain for babesia) and it was the awesomest

thing

> I've ever seen... but how come no one believes in its validity

except

> weird alt med people (I'm totally normal myself, ha ha)?

>

> When I asked the guy, hey, what's the epistemology of these claims,

he

> said it came from Bradford himself. I hope Bradford wrote his stuff

> down rather than communicating it to his students through ineffable

> poetic interactions, since that's great for zen but not so good for

> science. So what actually proves that XYZ is a mycoplasma? Did

> Bradford ever light them up with fluorescent antibodies, and write

it

> up? I'd be glad to learn otherwise, but the way it comes off it

sounds

> like he just made it all up.

>

> It does look totally awesome though.

>

[Guest guest]

>Meanwhile I am trying to decide if I should get the babesia test done > at Fry Lab in sdale, AZ. Have any of you ever heard of this lab? > An MD I know is encouraging me to get the test run, but I don't know. > I understand it is a microscopy test. My doc here is pretty funny. I > showed her the article about the lab with the photo. She smiled and > said that the picture looked just like her former patient's picture > and she wondered if they just sent the same picture to everyone, and > they were all positive.I had this test run as well as my son. His showed Babesia, Bartonella, and Erhlichia. Mine found only Erhilichia in my neutrophil cells. He uses a old Malaria slide technique with a new stain. I know people who have had the test run. We all have different results. And not every one was positive like Bowen used to be. One had just Babesia no Bartonella. Another had all three like my son. I do not think his Lyme test is worth using. He only tests for 2 bands. Not sure why only two, I haven't had a chance to ask him.FWIW,

[Guest guest]

When I get the test kit will it be obvious if they are running all

these tests or do I need different kits for each test? I only asked

about babesia on the phone.

a

>

>

>

> >

> Meanwhile I am trying to decide if I should get the babesia test

done

> > at Fry Lab in sdale, AZ. Have any of you ever heard of this

lab?

> > An MD I know is encouraging me to get the test run, but I don't

know.

> > I understand it is a microscopy test. My doc here is pretty

funny. I

> > showed her the article about the lab with the photo. She smiled

and

> > said that the picture looked just like her former patient's

picture

> > and she wondered if they just sent the same picture to everyone,

and

> > they were all positive.

>

> I had this test run as well as my son. His showed Babesia,

Bartonella,

> and Erhlichia. Mine found only Erhilichia in my neutrophil cells.

He

> uses a old Malaria slide technique with a new stain.

>

> I know people who have had the test run. We all have different

results.

> And not every one was positive like Bowen used to be. One had just

> Babesia no Bartonella. Another had all three like my son.

>

> I do not think his Lyme test is worth using. He only tests for 2

bands.

> Not sure why only two, I haven't had a chance to ask him.

>

> FWIW,

>

>

[Guest guest]

> The last two nights I used an old dental guard I had.

I really think that doesn't do anything at all for the majority of

bruxers (except protect the teeth from abrasion). I can't root that

assertion in data. It's just what I've heard (at least I think; it was

long, long ago) on forums, from the people who sounded savviest to me.

Using a plastic sports mouthguard certainly didn't do a thing for me

in terms of the head and jaw aches.

> Part of the problem is the severe brainfog. I really cannot recall

> things, details, like what people have even told me to try. I look at

> the bottles in the closet and can't recall why I bought them. It is

> scary.

Very conservatively - I almost can't imagine how I could be mistaken

about it, but I try to be really cautious in science - I am 95% sure I

get major fogs from bruxing. Sometimes I'll get a fog with a headache,

and often it will continue when the headache stops. Often I have major

daytime jaw soreness at these times, or even daytime bruxism, or wake

myself up from light sleep with a teeth " clack " - or I will recall

dreams in which my jaw was stuck shut and I couldn't open my mouth, or

dreams in which my teeth kept hurting. Or my very small amount of

" roughness " and popping in the jaw joint will be temporarily

intensified. And it always has an afternoon onset or intensification,

which my bruxism-associated head symptoms always do, though morning

peaks are commoner for other people according to some web pages. I may

have had other causes of fog long ago (up to early 2005), but since

then most of my fogs have this association with brux phenomena. There

are also the expected correlations with measures I take against

bruxism, like GABAergics or my NTI... and things that make me brux,

such as hypomania, skipping dinner, sleeping in real late, often bring

all this stuff on. In short, I'm as sure as you can be based on

indirect and kind of subjective evidence.

You might look for some brux forums and see if anyone reports fog

stuff like I'm reporting.

Fortunately it has been controllable almost all the time since I

figured out what it was all about, and started experimenting with GABA

+ taurine at bedtime, last Christmas.

I sure hope you can figure something out to help it.

[Guest guest]

> And not every one was positive like Bowen used to be.

They really need to get some other lab to test those

immunofluorescence findings using their same protocol - say, Dr

Fallon. I'm sure he or someone like that would be interested. If this

method of demonstrating Bb is reproducible, and massively supports the

chronic refractory lyme idea, why doesn't someone take the idea to the

big city. I am honestly mystified. Science is done by independent

replication and by a massive community effort. That's how it comes

about that billions get spent by government and businesses to develop

more effective treatments, if the evidence holds. I don't think any of

us can scrape together 6 or 12 billion dollars or ever will. While it

is somewhat helpful per se to have a test, it's obvious that present

abx treatments are rarely curative of CFS/etc at best.

Do none of us have contacts with ILADS? I have emailed one prominant

ILADS doctor about this but got no word. Now, I'm admittedly not much

of a diplomat so that could have been a factor.