Re: What happens when amphotericin B stops working?

[Guest guest]

Penny I did amp b for 18 months, I used it in conjuntion with Lamisil. UK is always saying that the AF need be taken together with a systemic, lamisil is a systemic. It got right into my prostate, others have reported the same, I also noticed at 500Mg (i normally took 250)  but at 500 the sinus would clean right out.Lamisil is quiet effective but I would use them together not alone. as the beasts are extremely hardy,Let me know how you get on.bleuOn 14 Jul 2008, at 20:45, penny wrote:Okay, my bugs seem to have won again. I think I had a good run with the amp B compounded nasal spray (not really sure as I'm also on ketokonazole) but it seems pretty apparent that the Amp B is doing nothing now. To be honest, I think the steroid in the nasal spray gave me more relief (from inflammatory symptoms) than anything else. But the side effects of even that miniscule amount of steroid are getting to me and I'd like to find some kind of alternative. So what happens if/when amp. B stops working? Rotate it up and hope the bugs will become susceptible again? Or am I totally screwed? Or do I not have any fungal stuff for it to be effective against? The main reason I'm saying it has "stopped working" is I don't notice any difference with or without it. Pretty hard to tell under the circumstances anyway with the lack of any positive fungal identification. Oh, plus my migraines are back in a big way which are definitely sinus infection related. I can't use the dehumidifier due to the heat of summer (besides, my bugs adapted to the dehumidifier after a few weeks as well). The only way I can prevent the migraines now is to sleep sitting up in bed, which means I'm getting very poor quality sleep. If I lay down at all, I will wake up with a migraine on whichever side my head is turned. :-(I continue to notice a difference in my pain levels with and without the steroid in the spray, so that sucks. But the other ingredients (amp b and gentamycin) seem to have no effect at all.Those of you who've had success with Amp. B, how do you take it and what has been your experience with resistance?penny

[Guest guest]

Geez, thanks for the info. Lamisil was my favoritie AF while I was on it. Unfortunately, my doc has something against it, despite the fact that I've responded well and my tests stay clean. He's convinced it's going to destroy my organs or something.

Do you have anything "official" or "scientific" I could show him to convince him to let me do both?

thanks,

penny

p.s. is ketakonazole a "systemic"?

Okay, my bugs seem to have won again. I think I had a good run with the amp B compounded nasal spray (not really sure as I'm also on ketokonazole) but it seems pretty apparent that the Amp B is doing nothing now. To be honest, I think the steroid in the nasal spray gave me more relief (from inflammatory symptoms) than anything else. But the side effects of even that miniscule amount of steroid are getting to me and I'd like to find some kind of alternative. So what happens if/when amp. B stops working? Rotate it up and hope the bugs will become

susceptible again? Or am I totally screwed? Or do I not have any fungal stuff for it to be effective against? The main reason I'm saying it has "stopped working" is I don't notice any difference with or without it. Pretty hard to tell under the circumstances anyway with the lack of any positive fungal identification. Oh, plus my migraines are back in a big way which are definitely sinus infection related. I can't use the dehumidifier due to the heat of summer (besides, my bugs adapted to the dehumidifier after a few weeks as well). The only way I can prevent the migraines now is to sleep sitting up in bed, which means I'm getting very poor quality sleep. If I lay down at all, I will wake up with a migraine on whichever side my head is turned. :-(I continue to notice a difference in my pain levels with and without the steroid in the spray, so that sucks. But the other ingredients (amp b and gentamycin) seem to have no effect at all.Those of you who've had success with Amp. B, how do you take it and what has been your experience with resistance?penny

[Guest guest]

no sorry, only i was on it 18 months solid, i remember before my hands were slightly yellow, after the course they been red as normal ever since. My take is, it did my liver good. I never had any tests for liver the whole time I was on it.  also says that the liver problems etc are over hyped? I had no luck getting AF in the UK only in France I found a sensible doc.On 14 Jul 2008, at 21:36, Penny Houle wrote:Geez, thanks for the info. Lamisil was my favoritie AF while I was on it. Unfortunately, my doc has something against it, despite the fact that I've responded well and my tests stay clean. He's convinced it's going to destroy my organs or something. Do you have anything "official" or "scientific" I could show him to convince him to let me do both? thanks, penny p.s. is ketakonazole a "systemic"? --- On Mon, 7/14/08, Agentbleu <colourbleufree (DOT) fr> wrote:From: Agentbleu <colourbleufree (DOT) fr>Subject: Re: [infections] What happens when amphotericin B stops working?infections Date: Monday, July 14, 2008, 12:25 PMPenny I did amp b for 18 months, I used it in conjuntion with Lamisil. UK is always saying that the AF need be taken together with a systemic, lamisil is a systemic. It got right into my prostate, others have reported the same, I also noticed at 500Mg (i normally took 250)  but at 500 the sinus would clean right out.Lamisil is quiet effective but I would use them together not alone. as the beasts are extremely  hardy,Let me know how you get on.bleuOn 14 Jul 2008, at 20:45, penny wrote:Okay, my bugs seem to have won again. I think I had a good run with the amp B compounded nasal spray (not really sure as I'm also on ketokonazole) but it seems pretty apparent that the Amp B is doing nothing now. To be honest, I think the steroid in the nasal spray gave me more relief (from inflammatory symptoms) than anything else. But the side effects of even that miniscule amount of steroid are getting to me and I'd like to find some kind of alternative. So what happens if/when amp. B stops working? Rotate it up and hope the bugs will become susceptible again? Or am I totally screwed? Or do I not have any fungal stuff for it to be effective against? The main reason I'm saying it has "stopped working" is I don't notice any difference with or without it. Pretty hard to tell under the circumstances anyway with the lack of any positive fungal identification. Oh, plus my migraines are back in a big way which are definitely sinus infection related. I can't use the dehumidifier due to the heat of summer (besides, my bugs adapted to the dehumidifier after a few weeks as well). The only way I can prevent the migraines now is to sleep sitting up in bed, which means I'm getting very poor quality sleep. If I lay down at all, I will wake up with a migraine on whichever side my head is turned. :-(I continue to notice a difference in my pain levels with and without the steroid in the spray, so that sucks. But the other ingredients (amp b and gentamycin) seem to have no effect at all.Those of you who've had success with Amp. B, how do you take it and what has been your experience with resistance?penny

[Guest guest]

Hi Penny /all ..just guessing but as terbinafine

[Lamisil] is licensed for skin and nail infections only , you doc will

be vulnerable

to criticism treating a sinus infection ...

as fungi throw filaments deep into the tissue , a systemic drug is

essential in

treating ..anyway good luck

On the subject of

the

safety of antifungal meds in particular Fluconazole , read the

following

extract,It’s part of ” The

use of fluconazole and itraconazole in the treatment of Candida

albicans

infections: a review” The document is

very much worth reading. Note the dosage for systemic Candida

infections, up to

400mg per day . Later studies recommend that the dose start at 400mg

The

optimal dose quoted is between 400 &

800mg per day .

http://jac.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/full/44/4/429

The FACTS do not

support your view

,see below.. and yes we are more susceptible to drug toxicity,

metabolising drugs ,metals is a problem

for many with a gut dysbiosis.. Testing is important . but

lets put the problem in context ..it’s

the pathogens that are the problem and eradicating them is the task

..and in

that respect .Antifungal drugs are a godsend .

The

frequency of reported apparent hepatic dysfunctions has varied. An

analysis of 7 key placebo-controlled trials (262 placebo vs 1624

terbinafine

patients) suggested increases of 1.4% vs 3.4% in liver function test

indicators (APase, AST, ALT, g-GT, bilirubin >2x above upper

normal). In a

European postmarketing study in 25 884 patients, asymptomatic liver

enzyme

increases were reported in 0.17% of patients treated. The reporting

frequency for symptomatic liver disorder possibly related to

terbinafine was

1:13 000. The relative risk of acute liver injury in this group was

considered to be 4.2 times the background incidence. In the less

controlled

circumstances of spontaneous worldwide reporting, the development of

clinically significant signs and symptoms of hepatobiliary dysfunction

for

which no other cause was apparent, and in which terbinafine was

considered

the possible causative agent was calculated to be approximately 1:37 000

treated patients. The reporting frequency overall for hepatobiliary

events

including elevations in liver enzymes was 1:15 000. Very rare cases of

liver

failure, some fatal, have been associated with terbinafine treatment

and the

incidence rate is about 1:1 000 000 exposed patients

http://www.rxcarecanada.com/Lamisil.asp

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hpfb-dgpsa/tpd-dpt/lamisil_e.html

http://www.fungalresearchtrust.org/flucon.html

http://www.massgeneral.org/pharmacy/ICU%20Guidelines/fluconazole.htm

-

On the subject of the safety of antifungal

meds in

particular Fluconazole ,

read the following extract,It’s part of ” The use of fluconazole and

itraconazole in the treatment of Candida albicans infections: a review”

The

document is very much worth reading. Note the dosage for systemic

Candida

infections, up to 400mg per day . Later studies recommend that the dose

start at 400mg The optimal dose quoted is between 400 & 800mg per

day .

http://jac.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/full/44/4/429

Fluconazole Saftey

Fluconazole is generally well tolerated over a wide dose range. 7 ,82

,83

,84 Clinical experience is extensive, with over 16 million patient-days

of

treatment with fluconazole since its introduction in the UK, and 300

million

patient-days world-wide. The incidence of side effects is low, and

symptoms

are generally mild and do not require discontinuation from therapy.7 The

most common side effects are associated with the gastrointestinal tract

(nausea, abdominal discomfort, vomiting, diarrhoea). Others include

headache

and rashes, but these are rarely encountered (incidence of <2%).

Tolerability is high even in special patient groups including children

and

severely ill patients with AIDS or cancer.7,85

Although not licensed, high doses of fluconazole (up to 800 mg/day) are

well

tolerated in the treatment of immunocompromised patients with severe

systemic mycoses.86,87 Doses of up to 1600 mg fluconazole have been

shown to

be well tolerated in studies of AIDS patients with histoplasmosis88 and

cryptococcal meningitis.83,87

In rare cases, particularly in patients with serious underlying diseases

such as AIDS and cancer, abnormalities of hepatic, renal,

haematological and

other biochemical function tests have been observed, but the clinical

significance and relationship of these to treatment is uncertain.7 Very

rarely, post-mortem examinations of patients who died with severe

underlying

disease and had received multiple-dose fluconazole therapy have revealed

hepatic necrosis: an assessment of the risk–benefit ratio of continued

fluconazole administration for patients in whom a significant rise in

liver

enzymes occurs is, therefore, recommended. 89 ,90

Safety profile with children

http://pharmainfo.net/displayarticle10358.html

Fluconazole Saftey

Fluconazole is

generally well

tolerated over a wide dose range. 7 ,82 ,83 ,84 Clinical experience is

extensive, with over 16 million

patient-days of treatment with fluconazole since its

introduction in

the UK, and 300 million patient-days world-wide. The

incidence of

side effects is low, and symptoms are generally mild and do not

require discontinuation from therapy.7 The most common side effects

are associated with the gastrointestinal tract (nausea, abdominal

discomfort, vomiting, diarrhoea). Others include headache and

rashes, but these are rarely encountered (incidence of <2%). Tolerability

is high even in special patient groups including children

and

severely ill patients with AIDS or cancer.7,85

Although not

licensed, high

doses of fluconazole (up to 800 mg/day) are well tolerated

in the

treatment of immunocompromised patients with severe

systemic

mycoses.86,87 Doses of up to 1600 mg

fluconazole have been shown to be well tolerated in studies of

AIDS

patients with histoplasmosis88 and cryptococcal meningitis.83,87

In rare cases,

particularly in

patients with serious underlying diseases such as AIDS and

cancer,

abnormalities of hepatic, renal, haematological and other

biochemical function tests have been observed, but the

clinical significance

and relationship of these to treatment is uncertain.7 Very rarely, post-mortem

examinations

of patients who died with severe underlying disease and had received

multiple-dose fluconazole therapy have revealed hepatic necrosis:

an

assessment of the risk–benefit ratio of continued fluconazole

administration for patients in whom a significant rise in

liver

enzymes occurs is, therefore, recommended. 89 ,90

Safety profile with children

http://pharmainfo.net/displayarticle10358.html

Penny Houle wrote:

Geez, thanks for the info. Lamisil was my favoritie AF while

I was on it. Unfortunately, my doc has something against it, despite

the fact that I've responded well and my tests stay clean. He's

convinced it's going to destroy my organs or something.

Do you have anything "official" or "scientific" I could show

him to convince him to let me do both?

thanks,

penny

p.s. is ketakonazole a "systemic"?

Okay, my bugs seem to have won again. I think I had a

good run with the

amp B compounded nasal spray (not really sure as I'm also on

ketokonazole) but it seems pretty apparent that the Amp B is doing

nothing now. To be honest, I think the steroid in the nasal spray gave

me more relief (from inflammatory symptoms) than anything else. But the

side effects of even that miniscule amount of steroid are getting to me

and I'd like to find some kind of alternative.

So what happens if/when amp. B stops working? Rotate it up and hope the

bugs will become susceptible again? Or am I totally screwed? Or do I

not have any fungal stuff for it to be effective against? The main

reason I'm saying it has "stopped working" is I don't notice any

difference with or without it. Pretty hard to tell under the

circumstances anyway with the lack of any positive fungal

identification.

Oh, plus my migraines are back in a big way which are definitely sinus

infection related. I can't use the dehumidifier due to the heat of

summer (besides, my bugs adapted to the dehumidifier after a few weeks

as well). The only way I can prevent the migraines now is to sleep

sitting up in bed, which means I'm getting very poor quality sleep. If

I lay down at all, I will wake up with a migraine on whichever side my

head is turned. :-(

I continue to notice a difference in my pain levels with and without

the steroid in the spray, so that sucks. But the other ingredients (amp

b and gentamycin) seem to have no effect at all.

Those of you who've had success with Amp. B, how do you take it and

what has been your experience with resistance?

penny

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1551 - Release Date: 14/07/2008 06:49

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure which view you mean? Just sharing my own experience.

I took Fluconazole/diflucan for a long time and it became completely

ineffective. I have noticed that some of the AFs work again after

going off of them for a while but Diflucan seems only marginally

effective for me in that scenario. I have friends though who can

always go back to it.

The only things I can say for sure about antifungals is that they

make my skin really soft. And if I don't take one while on

antibiotics I will get a mild vaginal yeast infection and my skin

gets less soft and a little bumpy on the backs of my arms. When those

things happen, that's my indication that the AF isn't working any

more. I also think, but can't say 100% for sure, that AFs help keep

brain fog at bay. Cipro also keeps my head clear (and lessens my

fatigue). It's one of the reasons I can't stop Cipro and one reason I

stick with the AFs. Brain fog really sucks.

penny

> >

> >> Okay, my bugs seem to have won again. I think I had a good

run

> >> with the

> >> amp B compounded nasal spray (not really sure as I'm also on

> >> ketokonazole) but it seems pretty apparent that the Amp B is

doing

> >> nothing now. To be honest, I think the steroid in the nasal

spray

> >> gave

> >> me more relief (from inflammatory symptoms) than anything

else.

> >> But the

> >> side effects of even that miniscule amount of steroid are

getting

> >> to me

> >> and I'd like to find some kind of alternative.

> >>

> >> So what happens if/when amp. B stops working? Rotate it up

and

> >> hope the

> >> bugs will become susceptible again? Or am I totally screwed?

Or do I

> >> not have any fungal stuff for it to be effective against?

The main

> >> reason I'm saying it has " stopped working " is I don't notice

any

> >> difference with or without it. Pretty hard to tell under the

> >> circumstances anyway with the lack of any positive fungal

> >> identification.

> >>

> >> Oh, plus my migraines are back in a big way which are

definitely

> >> sinus

> >> infection related. I can't use the dehumidifier due to the

heat of

> >> summer (besides, my bugs adapted to the dehumidifier after a

few

> >> weeks

> >> as well). The only way I can prevent the migraines now is to

sleep

> >> sitting up in bed, which means I'm getting very poor quality

> >> sleep. If

> >> I lay down at all, I will wake up with a migraine on

whichever

> >> side my

> >> head is turned. :-(

> >>

> >> I continue to notice a difference in my pain levels with and

without

> >> the steroid in the spray, so that sucks. But the other

> >> ingredients (amp

> >> b and gentamycin) seem to have no effect at all.

> >>

> >> Those of you who've had success with Amp. B, how do you take

it and

> >> what has been your experience with resistance?

> >>

> >> penny

> >>

> >

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1551 - Release Date:

14/07/2008 06:49

> >

>