Re: manipulative or cant communicate?

December 27, 2008

I have to remind myself often that the word autism derived of the word "self". My 9 year old has autism and is extremely self-centered. He has received intensive therapies (ABA, OT, speech, and even music therapy) since before he turned 3 and is now in a mainstream classroom with a shadow.

At the age of 5 his developmental pediatrician suggested he wouldn't go so far as to suggest that he was manipulative, but I have come to realize he is very manipulative. However, he is not manipulative in a synical way. He is simply very clever and always figuring out how to get what he wants.

He is learning compassion and to think about other points of view, and has made great progress learning about respect. However, he is incredibly compulsive and doesn't always remember to respectful and will sometimes disrupt his 4th grade classroom because he doesn't want to do something (loves reading but didn't want to read any of his teachers chapter books - or had a sprained ankle one day and thought he could just lie down in the nurses office and not do his paperwork all day - or is just challenged with hard work sometimes).

I would definitely get another medical opinion. Our special kiddos have a unique perspective of the world that revolves around their interests. We are often manipulated by Tyler to go someplace (usually the library - which is hard to say no to) or leave someplace that may be scary for some reason that he'll never admit. He suffers from anxiety that can manifest itself in the most ordinary places.

I believe your instincts are right and you and your son's teachers need to figure out how to communicate with him. Tyler is very bright but still struggles with expressive language - taking a long time sometimes to find the words he is looking for to express his thoughts. Perhaps you might try using pictures and visual tools to help him communicate his needs. Maggie

To: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 2:19:37 PMSubject: manipulative or cant communicate?

My 7 yr old is being labeled by the school as manipulative by the autism doctor and also not labled autistic. Right now, he had a tantrum, yelling at the top of his lungs he wanted to come back from his grandma's. I didnt want him to get his way but we finally gave in. Now, we get home and is desperate to go to the toilet because his stomach hurts. This just continues to show me that he is verbal but cannot tell me how he feels so he acts out. Is this manipulative and behavioral or is it a child now being able to communicate his needs? His teacher is saying that he is manipulating everyone and is disrupting everything and wants him there more hrs then the 4 hrs he is already there. My complaint is that they cant handle him 4 hrs, why put him in longer?...what do yall think?

December 27, 2008

Maggie,

It is difficult for me to allow them to put him in there longer when

he is in a supposed 'behavioral unit' but they cant handle the

behavior....(go figure)....

i also asked for another eval to be done but by another doctor...they

are suggesting it be someone not specialized in Autism....i am not

sure how to take that tho..

>

> I have to remind myself often that the word autism derived of the

word " self " . My 9 year old has autism and is extremely self-

centered. He has received intensive therapies (ABA, OT, speech, and

even music therapy) since before he turned 3 and is now in a

mainstream classroom with a shadow.

>

> At the age of 5 his developmental pediatrician suggested he

wouldn't go so far as to suggest that he was manipulative, but I have

come to realize he is very manipulative. However, he is not

manipulative in a synical way. He is simply very clever and always

figuring out how to get what he wants.

>

> He is learning compassion and to think about other points of

view, and has made great progress learning about respect. However,

he is incredibly compulsive and doesn't always remember to respectful

and will sometimes disrupt his 4th grade classroom because he doesn't

want to do something (loves reading but didn't want to read any of

his teachers chapter books - or had a sprained ankle one day and

thought he could just lie down in the nurses office and not do his

paperwork all day - or is just challenged with hard work sometimes).

>

> I would definitely get another medical opinion. Our special kiddos

have a unique perspective of the world that revolves around their

interests. We are often manipulated by Tyler to go someplace

(usually the library - which is hard to say no to) or leave someplace

that may be scary for some reason that he'll never admit. He suffers

from anxiety that can manifest itself in the most ordinary places.

>

> I believe your instincts are right and you and your son's teachers

need to figure out how to communicate with him. Tyler is very bright

but still struggles with expressive language - taking a long

time sometimes to find the words he is looking for to express his

thoughts. Perhaps you might try using pictures and visual tools to

help him communicate his needs.

> Maggie

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

> Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 2:19:37 PM

> Subject: manipulative or cant communicate?

>

> My 7 yr old is being labeled by the school as manipulative by the

> autism doctor and also not labled autistic. Right now, he had a

> tantrum, yelling at the top of his lungs he wanted to come back

from

> his grandma's. I didnt want him to get his way but we finally gave

> in. Now, we get home and is desperate to go to the toilet because

his

> stomach hurts. This just continues to show me that he is verbal but

> cannot tell me how he feels so he acts out. Is this manipulative

and

> behavioral or is it a child now being able to communicate his

needs?

>

> His teacher is saying that he is manipulating everyone and is

> disrupting everything and wants him there more hrs then the 4 hrs

he is

> already there. My complaint is that they cant handle him 4 hrs, why

> put him in longer?...

>

> what do yall think?

>

December 27, 2008

If you haven't already, ask in writing for an ARD to request an

official autism evaluation by the school's 'autism team or

psychologist'.

Your son sounds like he has gut issues that cause him pain and could

be the cause of his behaviors. You're right, not being able to

communicate his needs is not the same as manipulation, he's doing the

best he can to tell people around him he is hurting.

Nagla

>

> My 7 yr old is being labeled by the school as manipulative by the

> autism doctor and also not labled autistic. Right now, he had a

> tantrum, yelling at the top of his lungs he wanted to come back

from

> his grandma's. I didnt want him to get his way but we finally gave

> in. Now, we get home and is desperate to go to the toilet because

his

> stomach hurts. This just continues to show me that he is verbal

but

> cannot tell me how he feels so he acts out. Is this manipulative

and

> behavioral or is it a child now being able to communicate his

needs?

>

> His teacher is saying that he is manipulating everyone and is

> disrupting everything and wants him there more hrs then the 4 hrs

he is

> already there. My complaint is that they cant handle him 4 hrs,

why

> put him in longer?...

>

> what do yall think?

>

December 27, 2008

Our babies are sick and doing the best they can. I believe your

child has gut pain and needs this addressed. What is he eating?

There is much that can be done so that our kids are comfortable and

healing. Healthier kids means the inadequate school system is more

likely to have appropriate services.

Best to your child!

> >

> > I have to remind myself often that the word autism derived of the

> word " self " . My 9 year old has autism and is extremely self-

> centered. He has received intensive therapies (ABA, OT,

speech, and

> even music therapy) since before he turned 3 and is now in a

> mainstream classroom with a shadow.

> >

> > At the age of 5 his developmental pediatrician suggested he

> wouldn't go so far as to suggest that he was manipulative, but I

have

> come to realize he is very manipulative. However, he is not

> manipulative in a synical way. He is simply very clever and always

> figuring out how to get what he wants.

> >

> > He is learning compassion and to think about other points of

> view, and has made great progress learning about respect. However,

> he is incredibly compulsive and doesn't always remember to

respectful

> and will sometimes disrupt his 4th grade classroom because he

doesn't

> want to do something (loves reading but didn't want to read any of

> his teachers chapter books - or had a sprained ankle one day and

> thought he could just lie down in the nurses office and not do his

> paperwork all day - or is just challenged with hard work sometimes).

> >

> > I would definitely get another medical opinion. Our special

kiddos

> have a unique perspective of the world that revolves around their

> interests. We are often manipulated by Tyler to go someplace

> (usually the library - which is hard to say no to) or leave

someplace

> that may be scary for some reason that he'll never admit. He

suffers

> from anxiety that can manifest itself in the most ordinary places.

> >

> > I believe your instincts are right and you and your son's

teachers

> need to figure out how to communicate with him. Tyler is

very bright

> but still struggles with expressive language - taking a long

> time sometimes to find the words he is looking for to express his

> thoughts. Perhaps you might try using pictures and visual tools to

> help him communicate his needs.

> > Maggie

> >

> > ________________________________

> > From: chanklita <chanklita@>

> > To: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

> > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 2:19:37 PM

> > Subject: manipulative or cant communicate?

> >

> > My 7 yr old is being labeled by the school as manipulative by the

> > autism doctor and also not labled autistic. Right now, he had a

> > tantrum, yelling at the top of his lungs he wanted to come back

> from

> > his grandma's. I didnt want him to get his way but we finally

gave

> > in. Now, we get home and is desperate to go to the toilet because

> his

> > stomach hurts. This just continues to show me that he is verbal

but

> > cannot tell me how he feels so he acts out. Is this manipulative

> and

> > behavioral or is it a child now being able to communicate his

> needs?

> >

> > His teacher is saying that he is manipulating everyone and is

> > disrupting everything and wants him there more hrs then the 4 hrs

> he is

> > already there. My complaint is that they cant handle him 4 hrs,

why

> > put him in longer?...

> >

> > what do yall think?

> >

>

December 27, 2008

my son has been evaluated by the supposed Autism Team and he said

that he was manipulative. That is why i requested another eval. I

cannot and will not allow them to get their way this time. He does

hold his bowel movements until he gets home. Now, if he has to go he

will not go or say anything to them so that is what causes part of

the acting out. I have told them this aleady and they still dont

want to believe it. Also, he doesnt eat anything at school. When i

ask them about what he ate they say 'he ate, he ate his yogurt'. Im

sick and tired of the school not listening to what im saying. I am

prepared to go to the superintendent now and if that doesnt work. I

will take my case to the school board members. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!

> >

> > My 7 yr old is being labeled by the school as manipulative by the

> > autism doctor and also not labled autistic. Right now, he had a

> > tantrum, yelling at the top of his lungs he wanted to come back

> from

> > his grandma's. I didnt want him to get his way but we finally

gave

> > in. Now, we get home and is desperate to go to the toilet

because

> his

> > stomach hurts. This just continues to show me that he is verbal

> but

> > cannot tell me how he feels so he acts out. Is this manipulative

> and

> > behavioral or is it a child now being able to communicate his

> needs?

> >

> > His teacher is saying that he is manipulating everyone and is

> > disrupting everything and wants him there more hrs then the 4 hrs

> he is

> > already there. My complaint is that they cant handle him 4 hrs,

> why

> > put him in longer?...

> >

> > what do yall think?

> >

>

December 28, 2008

>

> my son has been evaluated by the supposed Autism Team and he said

> that he was manipulative. That is why i requested another eval. I

> cannot and will not allow them to get their way this time. He does

> hold his bowel movements until he gets home. Now, if he has to go he

> will not go or say anything to them so that is what causes part of

> the acting out. I have told them this aleady and they still dont

> want to believe it. Also, he doesnt eat anything at school. When i

> ask them about what he ate they say 'he ate, he ate his yogurt'. Im

> sick and tired of the school not listening to what im saying. I am

> prepared to go to the superintendent now and if that doesnt work. I

> will take my case to the school board members. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!

Are you situated so you could get your own evaluation done

independently of the school? Either through your health insurance or

out of your own pocket? We would never have gotten anywhere if we had

not done that. You need to make sure your evaluators meet your school

district's specifications. Our school district's criteria were quite

reasonable, but I have heard some school districts are not. Then you

can request another evaluation and request the new information be used

as input.

Something that was surprisingly helpful, that I never would have

thought of myself... When I was discussing with one of the neuropsych

evaluators the problems I had with teachers typically taking my son's

struggles for defiance, she offered to write an addendum specifically

addressing that. She wrote a 3.5-page addendum to the evaluation on

" initiation " , which talked about what causes initiation problems, how

my son specifically is affected, and recommendations for intervention.

This seems to have gotten through to people more than anything.

I also give them specific examples at how he was bulking at doing such

and such at school (school work), they finally send it home, then many

times I can figure out the communication glitch, explain it to him in

other words, then he sits right down and does the work. So, I'll

explain to them in detail what I figured out, how I figured it out,

what my son was doing and saying the whole time, and bring in the

graded assignment if that particular teacher is not participating in

the discussion.

My son is 14 now (with Asperger/developmental coordination

disorder/anxiety), so we're at a different stage, but it has always

been like that. Unfortunately, some teachers are more receptive than

others--I've never figured out how to get them to get my son the

perfect teacher every year.

Your son may have sensory integration issues or coordination issues if

he is holding himself all day and is a very picky eater and/or eats

very slowly. My son did that in elementary. Have they ever done a

thorough OT evaluation?

Ruth

December 29, 2008

>

> Tonya,

>

> Thank you for the wording but does that mean that if i find someone

> that meets their criteria they would have to travel? we are in the

> middle of nowhere. I cant travel either.

The IEE route will only work if you can get the school district to

agree that your child needs the evaluation. If they are thinking your

child is not autistic, they can say it makes no sense to do such an

evaluation. I don't think we would ever have gotten our school

district to agree to an IEE, and they don't have to do it if there is

not a proven disability or a reasonable suspicion of a disability.

You may not agree with their lack of reasonable suspicion, but it

still will hold. On the other hand, if you come back with a dx from a

reputable source, it is much harder for them to argue. Like I said, I

think this is the only way it would have worked for us. It just

depends on your situation. I suppose it is possible that we could

have gotten an attorney to force them to do the evaluations, after

some time and money spent, but I can't imagine why I would make my

child wait so long for intervention and take all that money away from

his intervention, when my health insurance will pay. If you have a

child on the upper end of the spectrum whose disability is

" invisible " , sometimes this is the only way to go. So, I guess it

also depends on how obviously disabled or not your child is.

Ruth

December 29, 2008

Part of the evaluator’s fee should include travelling to

your son’s school. They can’t do a comparable evaluation if

it’s not in the same setting.

Tonya

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