Re: Cipro/flouroquinolone drugs: follow-up question...

[Guest guest]

Shoot. Now I feel stoopid...didn't see Rich's post until after I posted

earlier...

SORRY!

But I do have one question: Doesn't the body make it's own glutathione if you

give it the

proper nutrients (amino acids, vit C, etc., in foods) ???

d.

--- In infections , " rvankonynen " <richvank@...>

wrote:

>

> Hi, Penny.

>

> Thanks for the plug!

>

> Jay Cohen's website reports the experience of one guy with

> fluoroquinolone damage who benefited from IV glutathione:

>

> http://www.medicationsense.com

>

> There are actually some pretty interesting papers in the literature,

> accessible free at PubMed, that make the case that the damage

> mechanism of the fluoroquinolones is the production of reactive

> oxygen species and depletion of glutathione. PMID: 14569066 is one

> about tendon damage. PMID: 16495256 shows that the same mechanism is

> used by the fluoroquinolones to kill bacteria. There's another that

> shows the same mechanism produces liver and brain damage in mice at

> high doses of fluoroquinolones.

>

> I used to encourage PWCs with fluoroquinolone damage to try

> magnesium, too, and some found it helped them. There may be a

> connection between Mg and glutathione in CFS. There's a paper in the

> literature that shows that in red blood cells, if glutathione is low,

> the cells cannot maintain normal levels of intracellular Mg.

>

> I think this glutathione connection can explain why PWCs seem to be

> particularly vulnerable to damage from fluoroquinolones. Many or

> most are already depleted in glutathione. We're getting more data on

> that now using the Vitamin Diagnostics methylation panel, which

> includes measurements of serum reduced and oxidized glutathione.

>

> Rich

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, that's the issue. According to Rich, et al, some of us are not producing it properly, or are depleted of it (chicken/egg thing? Infection impacts production?). Glutathione is very hard to absorb as a supplement, which is why a lot of people talk about using precursors to help the body create its own. Harder than it sounds. I don't know what the current preferred method is that Rich is using to increase absorption of the supplemental G. Maybe he can bring us up to date, briefly.

I mentioned before I did i.v. glutathione, and had no noticeable improvements. I was also later tested for glutathione levels among other things and they were normal (although I don't know what the word is on testing accuracy). I'm personally way more concerned with trying to lower my (genetically high) nitric oxide levels than increasing my glutathione. The excess NO is definitely contributing to my fatigue. If Rich can make a connection between those 2 things, my interest might increase. (Although he probably can since he seems to connect glutathione depletion with absolutely everything ;-).

Sorry, but I can't help but be cynical and think that glutathione is most likely the latest fad cure-all supplement. I've seen it so, so, SO many times before, with both self interested parties and truly sincere people like Rich (who we love for so many reasons). But unless I (or people I know well) have some solid personal results with something (eg. abx, magnesium, etc.) I stay skeptical with a watchful eye while continuing to hope for big results with one of these things, one of these days.

penny

From: kdrbrill <kdrbrill@...>Subject: [infections] Re: Cipro/flouroquinolone drugs: follow-up question...infections Date: Saturday, July 19, 2008, 10:38 AM

Shoot. Now I feel stoopid...didn' t see Rich's post until after I posted earlier...SORRY! :)But I do have one question: Doesn't the body make it's own glutathione if you give it the proper nutrients (amino acids, vit C, etc., in foods) ???d.>> Hi, Penny.> > Thanks for the plug!> > Jay Cohen's website reports the experience of one guy with> fluoroquinolone damage who benefited from IV glutathione:> > http://www.medicati onsense.com> > There are actually some pretty interesting papers in the literature,> accessible free at PubMed, that make the case that the damage>

mechanism of the fluoroquinolones is the production of reactive> oxygen species and depletion of glutathione. PMID: 14569066 is one> about tendon damage. PMID: 16495256 shows that the same mechanism is> used by the fluoroquinolones to kill bacteria. There's another that> shows the same mechanism produces liver and brain damage in mice at> high doses of fluoroquinolones.> > I used to encourage PWCs with fluoroquinolone damage to try> magnesium, too, and some found it helped them. There may be a> connection between Mg and glutathione in CFS. There's a paper in the> literature that shows that in red blood cells, if glutathione is low,> the cells cannot maintain normal levels of intracellular Mg.> > I think this glutathione connection can explain why PWCs seem to be> particularly vulnerable to damage from fluoroquinolones. Many or> most are already

depleted in glutathione. We're getting more data on> that now using the Vitamin Diagnostics methylation panel, which> includes measurements of serum reduced and oxidized glutathione.> > Rich>