Re: tests for osteomyelitis of jaw

[Guest guest]

For me it was a combination of dxs. Images from CT scans (clearly showing holes in the bone in my jaw) and bone biopsies which tested positive for organisms which should not be living in bone. So you need radiologists familiar with bone scans and infectious disease docs/labs that can get bone samples and indentify the organisms in the bone, if they exist.

Even with this evidence many doctors I've seen have tried to rationalize that there are other explanations such as the biopsies were "contaminated" by normal organisms in the mouth (which they'd never claim with OM in other bones).

But despite such objections the insurance company can't dismiss an OM dx because osteomyelitis is a life threatening illness and they have to pay for treatments accordingly. Still, even though insurance companies have to pay it doesn't mean they won't give you a really hard time throughout the process as insurance companies are prone to do with any expensive treatments. Fortunately for us (I guess), chronic osteomyelitis is a lot slower to cause death than regular osteomyelitis.

Other evidence that can point toward OM is necrotic (dead) bone which is called osteonecrosis and is what's left after the infection has left an area. It doesn't guarantee a dx of OM but it's an indicator. I had a lot of necrotic bone cleaned out in my jaw. That's usually what's debrided when they go in and clean out an area of infected bone. They remove the dead bone and a smidgeon beyond the dead bone to where the blood flows freely again (because there's no blood flow in dead bone). The blood flowing is good because that's your immune system working, but it's bad if they don't give you the proper antimicrobials to keep the infection from spreading.

I'm not exactly sure how you'd get a dx of ON. There's a Dr. Bouqout who would test your pulled teeth for osteonecrosis but unfortunately his reputation got seriously damaged because he got linked to Dr. Shankland, a Nico Doc, who had his license suspended for 6 months as well as a Shankland associate who developed the Cavitat imaging device. The insurance companies lumped Bouqout in with these guys which is unfortunate, because my understanding is that Bouquout is a smart doctor who didn't deserve the negative attention, but getting a dx from him now doesn't do much more than give you some information for your personal satisfaction.

OM is very difficult to treat in the more common areas like the knee or hip or toe by experienced orthopedic surgeons and infectious disease docs. The jaw is much more difficult because dentists and oral surgeons aren't trained for it. Few even know about it and for those who do, there so many places that are really difficult to debride that it's a whole different ball game for us. It's an uphill battle all the way.

penny

From: amydent9 <amydent9@...>Subject: [infections] tests for osteomyelitis of jawinfections Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 8:00 PM

what tests will show osteomyelitis of the jaw?I hear you can get Hyperbaric oxygen paid for wiht that diagnosisamy

[Guest guest]

-

thanks penny.

I had a 3 -d dental Cat scan full mouth, newthom scan,

and a gamma nuclear head soft and bony tissue xray and they did not

show OM or ON.

Is there anyone at HArbor UCLA or LA in genreral that is useful for

either tesintg for OM ON or reading the above tests correctly?

I s there still a dr in nevada, dr Heusser? or DR Swann, maybe to

read the tests correctly.

What is the news on Dr Swann, anyone heard anything good or bad on

him? I wonder what he would say about my root canal, cause due to the

huge toxins and infections in there I think it can't be pulled, but

leaving it in is whats causing the toxic stew.

did dr. heusser retire? thanks

Amy

-- In infections , Penny Houle

<pennyhoule@...> wrote:

>

> For me it was a combination of dxs. Images from CT scans (clearly

showing�holes in the bone in my jaw) and bone biopsies which tested

positive for organisms which should not be living in bone. So you need

radiologists familiar with bone scans and infectious disease docs/labs

that can get bone samples and indentify the organisms in the bone, if

they exist.

> �

> Even with this evidence many doctors�I've seen have tried�to

rationalize that�there are other explanations such as the biopsies

were " contaminated " by normal organisms in the mouth�(which they'd

never�claim�with OM in other bones).

> �

> But despite�such objections�the insurance company can't dismiss�an

OM dx�because osteomyelitis is a life threatening illness�and

they�have to pay for treatments accordingly. Still, even

though�insurance companies have to pay�it doesn't mean they won't give

you a really hard time throughout the process as insurance companies

are prone to do with any expensive treatments. Fortunately for us�(I

guess),�chronic osteomyelitis is a lot slower to cause death�than

regular osteomyelitis.

> �

> Other evidence that can point toward�OM is necrotic (dead)�bone

which is called osteonecrosis and is what's left after the infection

has left�an area. It doesn't guarantee a dx of OM but it's an

indicator. I had a lot of necrotic bone cleaned out in my jaw. That's

usually what's debrided when they go in and clean out an area of

infected bone. They remove the�dead bone and a smidgeon beyond the

dead bone to where the blood flows freely again (because there's no

blood flow in dead bone). The blood flowing is good because that's

your immune system working, but it's bad if they don't give you the

proper antimicrobials to keep the infection from spreading.

> �

> I'm not exactly sure how you'd get a dx of ON.�There's a Dr. Bouqout

who would test your pulled teeth for osteonecrosis but unfortunately

his reputation got seriously damaged because he got linked to Dr.

Shankland, a Nico Doc,�who had his license suspended�for 6 months as

well as a�Shankland associate who developed the Cavitat imaging

device. The insurance companies lumped Bouqout in with these guys

which is unfortunate, because my understanding is that�Bouquout is a

smart doctor who didn't�deserve the negative attention,�but getting a

dx from him now doesn't do much more than give you some information

for your personal satisfaction.

> �

> OM is�very difficult to treat in�the more common areas like�the�knee

or hip or toe by experienced orthopedic surgeons and infectious

disease docs. The jaw is�much more difficult�because dentists and oral

surgeons aren't trained for it. Few even�know about�it and�for those

who do,�there�so many�places that�are really difficult to debride that

it's a whole different ball game for us. It's an uphill battle all the

way.

> �

> penny

>

>

>

> From: amydent9 <amydent9@...>

> Subject: [infections] tests for osteomyelitis of jaw

> infections

> Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 8:00 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

> what tests will show osteomyelitis of the jaw?

>

> I hear you can get Hyperbaric oxygen paid for wiht that diagnosis

>

> amy

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Penny:

SO, are you on any abx now? Or doing without them? I've been

absent form the list for quite a while becuase I'm feeling so good,

living my life, riding my horses...

I continue to take the Wei Chi..

I have had a few symptoms come back.. tinnitis off and on.. a right

eye problem.. none of which I've seen a Doc. for ( WHat for I say?)

I'll see what happens over the next few months when I increase the

Wei Chi.

Barb

>

> For me it was a combination of dxs. Images from CT scans (clearly

showing holes in the bone in my jaw) and bone biopsies which tested

positive for organisms which should not be living in bone. So you

need radiologists familiar with bone scans and infectious disease

docs/labs that can get bone samples and indentify the organisms in