Re: Nitric Oxide, hypothyroidism, oxygen uptake, infections & arginine

[Guest guest]

> Hypothyroid Phenotype Is Contributed by Mitochondrial Complex I

Inactivation Due to Translocated Neuronal Nitric-oxide Synthase

> http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/full/281/8/4779

That was extremely interesting, but pretty confusing. Maybe I would

have understood better if my metabolism were higher. Kind of a catch 22.

NO has like a zillion different effects.

I /think/ the J Biochem paper says that NO inhibits you from burning

oxygen, which you do using the set of proteins called the repiratory

chain. They say you are gonna get more NO jamming the respiratory

chain if nitric oxide synthase (NOS, of which there are at least 3

kinds) gets moved into the mitochondrion, where the respiratory chain

lies, burning oxygen to make ATP. I think they are saying that thyroid

hormone causes NOS /not/ to be moved into the mitochondrion, thus

unclogging the respiratory chain and giving you higher metabolism.

They are in fact suggesting that this is the main way thyroid hormone

increases your metabolism.

NOS makes NO from arginine. That L-NAME substance they used, is a

" fake arginine " that tends to clog NOS, preventing it from making as

much NO.

I think if you could get arginine to the NOS in your mitochondria,

this would actually have the *opposite* effect thryroid hormone has -

more NO in the mitochondrion, less oxygen use, less ATP. But: I wonder

whether ingesting lots of arginine actually changes the concentration

of arginine in your cells, anyway. What if your body rapidly changes

all that arginine into something else? It may or may not do so. It may

closely control the level of arginine in your cells and blood so as to

get the right levels of NO, since NO is so multifunctional and important.

How much oxygen you burn more or less equals your metabolic rate

(which helps give you motor and cognitive energy), according to my

crude understanding. But, do we (CFS, etc) have a low metabolic rate?

I'm not sure, though Lowe's book on his thyroid theory of fibro

does address this subject, inconclusively if I recall correctly.

Regardless of whether we have a lower metabolism than normals, will we

be more energetic if we increase our metabolism (perhaps at some cost

in terms of lifespan or rate of aging, since more metabolism equals

more oxygen radicals)? I'm not sure. It's possible that both

/metabolism/ and /pure perception/ (cytokines making the brain tell

you you are tired) contribute to comparably to fatigue (cognitive and

motor fatigue). Or maybe one of those two factors dominates or is the

sole cause of fatigue. Obviously, you don't have to use less oxygen or

be low on ATP in order to feel tired, since the brain will percieve

whatever it needs to perceive in order to propagate your genome,

whether that perception is " real " or not. If your brain decides that

you feel tired, you feel tired. If the brain decides there are talking

pigs flying through the sky, you are gonna see 'em.

I would love to increase my metabolism. Again - not likely to increase

your lifespan or slow aging, nosir, though maybe it just wouldn't end

up having much real effect at all. Anyway, I'd much rather risk a

shorter life and just have more energy now... a year on the make is

worth 50 years of falling asleep 3x a day.

>

> Hmmm, so it seems problems with nitric oxide synthesis affects not

only vascular health, it affects the thyroid as well. Oxygen uptake

rates also depend on nitric oxide utilization and thyroid function.

It's all a bit beyond me, but I see that L-arginine is mentioned.

Perhaps another benefit of " Arginaid " , or L-arginine supplementation,

could help those of us with thyroid issues?

>

> The following article discusses how a dysfunctional Nitric Oxide

synthesis allows pseudomonas to thrive. It too discusses argine as

the precursor to Nitric Oxide. (pseudomonas happens to be one of my

chronic co-infections). Effects of Nitric Oxide on Pseudomonas

aeruginosa Infection of Epithelial Cells from a Human Respiratory Cell

Line Derived from a Patient with Cystic Fibrosis

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=153226 And

lastly: Arginine Metabolic Enzymes, Nitric Oxide and Infection

> http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/10/2820S

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I'd prefer a higher metabolism and shorter life as well. That way I could at least spend my time the way I want to rather than think about the things I'd like to be doing with my time. I know I've got a slow metabolism. It's been tested and confirmed (if you can believe the testing). I eat a fraction of what other people eat and gain weight, etc. All of the possibilities you talk about when it comes to why the body is reacting the way it does and whether it's beneficial to try to counter those things is something I also think about a lot (especially after spending a couple years on hardcore supplementation). I've come to assume that my thyroid/metabolism has slowed way down to try to help me, to prolong my life, fight the illness etc. Just like when you've got the flu, everything slows down, you feel fatigued etc. But since Glueck told me that I

have an actual hereditary defect in my ability to process NO and strongly recommended that I supplement with Arginaid to increase my ability to use NO to help fight infection, improve vessel spasming etc., I now feel there's some more precise reasoning behind the supplementation. Otherwise, I'd assume that the NO problem was another side effect of the infection (which it appears to be in many cases whether there's a genetic defect or not). The other thing that strikes me about supplementing with the recommended Arginaid is that it is almost exclusively used in the hospital situation with extremely ill patients. I believe that most of us are a lot more ill than our doctors and families realize and that hospital measures should be taken for many of us. I just refilled my Arginaid. Before I ran out (rather quickly) I felt it was having a positive effect, but

it was too soon to say for sure. This time, I've got a lot more and will report if improvement seems definite. I definitely felt more energetic when I was taking it every day, and less pain in the muscles and fewer headaches. The problem is, I go through these phases anyway, so it takes more than a couple of weeks on something to know for sure whether it's coincidence or truly beneficial. penny <usenethod@...> wrote: > Hypothyroid Phenotype Is Contributed

by Mitochondrial Complex IInactivation Due to Translocated Neuronal Nitric-oxide Synthase> http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/full/281/8/4779That was extremely interesting, but pretty confusing. Maybe I wouldhave understood better if my metabolism were higher. Kind of a catch 22.NO has like a zillion different effects.I /think/ the J Biochem paper says that NO inhibits you from burningoxygen, which you do using the set of proteins called the repiratorychain. They say you are gonna get more NO jamming the respiratorychain if nitric oxide synthase (NOS, of which there are at least 3kinds) gets moved into the mitochondrion, where the respiratory chainlies, burning oxygen to make ATP. I think they are saying that thyroidhormone causes NOS /not/ to be moved into the mitochondrion, thusunclogging the respiratory chain and giving you higher

metabolism. They are in fact suggesting that this is the main way thyroid hormoneincreases your metabolism. NOS makes NO from arginine. That L-NAME substance they used, is a"fake arginine" that tends to clog NOS, preventing it from making asmuch NO. I think if you could get arginine to the NOS in your mitochondria,this would actually have the *opposite* effect thryroid hormone has -more NO in the mitochondrion, less oxygen use, less ATP. But: I wonderwhether ingesting lots of arginine actually changes the concentrationof arginine in your cells, anyway. What if your body rapidly changesall that arginine into something else? It may or may not do so. It mayclosely control the level of arginine in your cells and blood so as toget the right levels of NO, since NO is so multifunctional and important. How much oxygen you burn more or less equals your metabolic rate(which helps give you motor and cognitive

energy), according to mycrude understanding. But, do we (CFS, etc) have a low metabolic rate?I'm not sure, though Lowe's book on his thyroid theory of fibrodoes address this subject, inconclusively if I recall correctly.Regardless of whether we have a lower metabolism than normals, will webe more energetic if we increase our metabolism (perhaps at some costin terms of lifespan or rate of aging, since more metabolism equalsmore oxygen radicals)? I'm not sure. It's possible that both/metabolism/ and /pure perception/ (cytokines making the brain tellyou you are tired) contribute to comparably to fatigue (cognitive andmotor fatigue). Or maybe one of those two factors dominates or is thesole cause of fatigue. Obviously, you don't have to use less oxygen orbe low on ATP in order to feel tired, since the brain will percievewhatever it needs to perceive in order to propagate your genome,whether that perception is "real"

or not. If your brain decides thatyou feel tired, you feel tired. If the brain decides there are talkingpigs flying through the sky, you are gonna see 'em.I would love to increase my metabolism. Again - not likely to increaseyour lifespan or slow aging, nosir, though maybe it just wouldn't endup having much real effect at all. Anyway, I'd much rather risk ashorter life and just have more energy now... a year on the make isworth 50 years of falling asleep 3x a day.>> Hmmm, so it seems problems with nitric oxide synthesis affects notonly vascular health, it affects the thyroid as well. Oxygen uptakerates also depend on nitric oxide utilization and thyroid function.It's all a bit beyond me, but I see that L-arginine is mentioned.Perhaps

another benefit of "Arginaid", or L-arginine supplementation,could help those of us with thyroid issues?> > The following article discusses how a dysfunctional Nitric Oxidesynthesis allows pseudomonas to thrive. It too discusses argine asthe precursor to Nitric Oxide. (pseudomonas happens to be one of mychronic co-infections). Effects of Nitric Oxide on Pseudomonasaeruginosa Infection of Epithelial Cells from a Human Respiratory CellLine Derived from a Patient with Cystic Fibrosishttp://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=153226 Andlastly: Arginine Metabolic Enzymes, Nitric Oxide and Infection> http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/10/2820S>

[Guest guest]

Not to get to technical, but has any one read that Mitochondrial DNA

is repaired by taking Turmeric and capsaicin tablets. This allows

the cell to use oxygen more affectionately, and cures cancer Thur

apostasy.

-- In infections , " "

<usenethod@...> wrote:

>

> > Hypothyroid Phenotype Is Contributed by Mitochondrial Complex I

> Inactivation Due to Translocated Neuronal Nitric-oxide Synthase

> > http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/full/281/8/4779

>

> That was extremely interesting, but pretty confusing. Maybe I would

> have understood better if my metabolism were higher. Kind of a

catch 22.

>

> NO has like a zillion different effects.

>

> I /think/ the J Biochem paper says that NO inhibits you from burning

> oxygen, which you do using the set of proteins called the repiratory

> chain. They say you are gonna get more NO jamming the respiratory

> chain if nitric oxide synthase (NOS, of which there are at least 3

> kinds) gets moved into the mitochondrion, where the respiratory

chain

> lies, burning oxygen to make ATP. I think they are saying that

thyroid

> hormone causes NOS /not/ to be moved into the mitochondrion, thus

> unclogging the respiratory chain and giving you higher metabolism.

>

> They are in fact suggesting that this is the main way thyroid

hormone

> increases your metabolism.

>

> NOS makes NO from arginine. That L-NAME substance they used, is a

> " fake arginine " that tends to clog NOS, preventing it from making as

> much NO.

>

> I think if you could get arginine to the NOS in your mitochondria,

> this would actually have the *opposite* effect thryroid hormone

has -

> more NO in the mitochondrion, less oxygen use, less ATP. But: I

wonder

> whether ingesting lots of arginine actually changes the

concentration

> of arginine in your cells, anyway. What if your body rapidly changes

> all that arginine into something else? It may or may not do so. It

may

> closely control the level of arginine in your cells and blood so as

to

> get the right levels of NO, since NO is so multifunctional and

important.

>

> How much oxygen you burn more or less equals your metabolic rate

> (which helps give you motor and cognitive energy), according to my

> crude understanding. But, do we (CFS, etc) have a low metabolic

rate?

> I'm not sure, though Lowe's book on his thyroid theory of fibro

> does address this subject, inconclusively if I recall correctly.

> Regardless of whether we have a lower metabolism than normals, will

we

> be more energetic if we increase our metabolism (perhaps at some

cost

> in terms of lifespan or rate of aging, since more metabolism equals

> more oxygen radicals)? I'm not sure. It's possible that both

> /metabolism/ and /pure perception/ (cytokines making the brain tell

> you you are tired) contribute to comparably to fatigue (cognitive

and

> motor fatigue). Or maybe one of those two factors dominates or is

the

> sole cause of fatigue. Obviously, you don't have to use less oxygen

or

> be low on ATP in order to feel tired, since the brain will percieve

> whatever it needs to perceive in order to propagate your genome,

> whether that perception is " real " or not. If your brain decides that

> you feel tired, you feel tired. If the brain decides there are

talking

> pigs flying through the sky, you are gonna see 'em.

>

> I would love to increase my metabolism. Again - not likely to

increase

> your lifespan or slow aging, nosir, though maybe it just wouldn't

end

> up having much real effect at all. Anyway, I'd much rather risk a

> shorter life and just have more energy now... a year on the make is

> worth 50 years of falling asleep 3x a day.

>

>

>

> >

> > Hmmm, so it seems problems with nitric oxide synthesis affects not

> only vascular health, it affects the thyroid as well. Oxygen uptake

> rates also depend on nitric oxide utilization and thyroid function.

> It's all a bit beyond me, but I see that L-arginine is mentioned.

> Perhaps another benefit of " Arginaid " , or L-arginine

supplementation,

> could help those of us with thyroid issues?

> >

> > The following article discusses how a dysfunctional Nitric Oxide

> synthesis allows pseudomonas to thrive. It too discusses argine as

> the precursor to Nitric Oxide. (pseudomonas happens to be one of my

> chronic co-infections). Effects of Nitric Oxide on Pseudomonas

> aeruginosa Infection of Epithelial Cells from a Human Respiratory

Cell

> Line Derived from a Patient with Cystic Fibrosis

> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=153226

And

> lastly: Arginine Metabolic Enzymes, Nitric Oxide and Infection

> > http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/10/2820S

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I've read things along that line. Can't vouch for ithem, but seem to have possibilities. pennyjimd85379 <jimd85379@...> wrote: Not to get to technical, but has any one read that Mitochondrial DNA is repaired by taking Turmeric and capsaicin tablets. This allows the cell to use oxygen more affectionately, and cures cancer Thur apostasy.-- In infections , " "

<usenethod@...> wrote:>> > Hypothyroid Phenotype Is Contributed by Mitochondrial Complex I> Inactivation Due to Translocated Neuronal Nitric-oxide Synthase> > http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/full/281/8/4779> > That was extremely interesting, but pretty confusing. Maybe I would> have understood better if my metabolism were higher. Kind of a catch 22.> > NO has like a zillion different effects.> > I /think/ the J Biochem paper says that NO inhibits you from burning> oxygen, which you do using the set of proteins called the repiratory> chain. They say you are gonna get more NO jamming the respiratory> chain if nitric oxide synthase (NOS, of which there are at least 3> kinds) gets moved into the mitochondrion, where the respiratory chain> lies, burning oxygen to

make ATP. I think they are saying that thyroid> hormone causes NOS /not/ to be moved into the mitochondrion, thus> unclogging the respiratory chain and giving you higher metabolism. > > They are in fact suggesting that this is the main way thyroid hormone> increases your metabolism. > > NOS makes NO from arginine. That L-NAME substance they used, is a> "fake arginine" that tends to clog NOS, preventing it from making as> much NO. > > I think if you could get arginine to the NOS in your mitochondria,> this would actually have the *opposite* effect thryroid hormone has -> more NO in the mitochondrion, less oxygen use, less ATP. But: I wonder> whether ingesting lots of arginine actually changes the concentration> of arginine in your cells, anyway. What if your body rapidly changes> all that arginine into something else? It may or may not do so.

It may> closely control the level of arginine in your cells and blood so as to> get the right levels of NO, since NO is so multifunctional and important. > > How much oxygen you burn more or less equals your metabolic rate> (which helps give you motor and cognitive energy), according to my> crude understanding. But, do we (CFS, etc) have a low metabolic rate?> I'm not sure, though Lowe's book on his thyroid theory of fibro> does address this subject, inconclusively if I recall correctly.> Regardless of whether we have a lower metabolism than normals, will we> be more energetic if we increase our metabolism (perhaps at some cost> in terms of lifespan or rate of aging, since more metabolism equals> more oxygen radicals)? I'm not sure. It's possible that both> /metabolism/ and /pure perception/ (cytokines making the brain tell> you you are tired)

contribute to comparably to fatigue (cognitive and> motor fatigue). Or maybe one of those two factors dominates or is the> sole cause of fatigue. Obviously, you don't have to use less oxygen or> be low on ATP in order to feel tired, since the brain will percieve> whatever it needs to perceive in order to propagate your genome,> whether that perception is "real" or not. If your brain decides that> you feel tired, you feel tired. If the brain decides there are talking> pigs flying through the sky, you are gonna see 'em.> > I would love to increase my metabolism. Again - not likely to increase> your lifespan or slow aging, nosir, though maybe it just wouldn't end> up having much real effect at all. Anyway, I'd much rather risk a> shorter life and just have more energy now... a year on the make is> worth 50 years of falling asleep 3x a day.> >

> > >> > Hmmm, so it seems problems with nitric oxide synthesis affects not> only vascular health, it affects the thyroid as well. Oxygen uptake> rates also depend on nitric oxide utilization and thyroid function.> It's all a bit beyond me, but I see that L-arginine is mentioned.> Perhaps another benefit of "Arginaid", or L-arginine supplementation,> could help those of us with thyroid issues?> > > > The following article discusses how a dysfunctional Nitric Oxide> synthesis allows pseudomonas to thrive. It too discusses argine as> the precursor to Nitric Oxide. (pseudomonas happens to be one of my> chronic co-infections). Effects of Nitric Oxide on Pseudomonas> aeruginosa Infection

of Epithelial Cells from a Human Respiratory Cell> Line Derived from a Patient with Cystic Fibrosis> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=153226 And> lastly: Arginine Metabolic Enzymes, Nitric Oxide and Infection> > http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/10/2820S> >>