Re: zee hot hot burning news, mein guten Herrn

[Guest guest]

I think this is link gets you to the latest:

http://www.cfscentral.com/

From: hodolog1ca <usenethod@...>Subject: [infections] zee hot hot burning news, mein guten Herrninfections Date: Monday, August 23, 2010, 3:52 PM

Y'all got the news, ja ja? I'd suggest Mindy Kitei's blog as the most readable and info-dense source on this.

[Guest guest]

Very Interesting.I have just found out that an old friend has been suffering with CFS for the last few years with increasing symptoms. I won't send her this paper as it will frighten the life out of her, but I wanted to get a feeling for peoples thoughts in here about CS and FM.I know Garth Nicolson was one of the early proponents of CFS having an infectious origin and there have been many since, but I haven't kept up to date with the latest on this label.However, from what this paper says there is evidence for a viral presence, but as my gut feeling is with many of these conditions, normally where there is one there is another working in tandem, and the co-factor hypothesis is what interests me, namely what is the current evidence suggesting that a bacterial origin (mycoplasma et el) is also co-factored in CFS. Further if there are bacterial co-factors which can be 'easily' treated (yea right), but I mean in comparison to retro viruses which I suspect there are few effective treatments for currently, then basically : are people having success treating CFS with ABX?bleu On 24 Aug 2010, at 02:54, Penny Houle wrote: I think this is link gets you to the latest: http://www.cfscentral.com/ From: hodolog1ca <usenethod@...>Subject: [infections] zee hot hot burning news, mein guten Herrninfections Date: Monday, August 23, 2010, 3:52 PM Y'all got the news, ja ja? I'd suggest Mindy Kitei's blog as the most readable and info-dense source on this.

[Guest guest]

BTW penny, have you checked the yorktest.com, it's an allergy food testing over 113 food types, I took it found about 22 allergic, 14 I was consuming regularly, after removing them things have also improved. Most certainly better immune function and lower inflammation.bleuPS. I'd love any more info from anyone of what people are using to treat CFS. Given my friend has just told me of her illness.On 24 Aug 2010, at 18:42, Penny Houle wrote: I know I have a bacterial infection and my symptoms are really only improved with the aid of abx (antibiotics). Without them, I'm completely useless. However, people with HIV are very prone to bacterial and fungal infections, so that's how I'm approaching this new retrovirus information. Is it possible that an underlying viral infection is hampering my immune system's ability to defeat these bacterial infections? I'm definitely looking forward to finding out if I will test positive for the virus. I think mold and fungal infections could also be co-factors. Personally, I've learned that I'm highly allergic to mold and exposure causes more symptoms. But the reality for me is, I still need antibiotics to feel at all functional, to be able to think somewhat clearly, and to have any energy whatsoever. Unfortunately, inflammatory symptoms continue to progress (manifesting as pain, weakness and a host of other symptoms). I am confident this is the result of a hyperactive immune system working overtime trying to fight the bugs I'm infected with. The immune system's inflammatory response is one of the ways it copes with illness and injury. However, as we've learned, too much inflammation becomes detrimental to the body. Finding a way to slow the inflammatory response without disabling it (as with steroids) is a major challenge (which is why I was initially interested in Benicar/arbs, but unfortunately, that drug eventually caused me as many symptoms as it was supposed to relieve) . Ultimately, the combination of infection with an over-active auto-immune inflammatory response, results in all kinds of physical symptoms, not to mention hormonal imbalances and deficiencies in nutrients that our bodies need to stay healthy. I'm definitely finding it a bit ironic that so many people have said that our illness is due to "auto-immune dysfunction" which is basically understood to be the immune system attacking the body for no reason. But it's interesting (isn't it?) that AIDS patients also have auto-immune dysfunction (aka AIDS) and yet their immune dysfunction isn't described as an attack on their bodies for no reason; they have an underlying cause, the HIV virus. I'm encouraged by all the attention this new virus and CFS are receiving. It makes far more sense to me than so many other hypotheses put out there by people who have denied that CFS (and other chronic illnesses) might have an infectious basis. From: hodolog1ca <usenethod@...>Subject: [infections] zee hot hot burning news, mein guten Herrninfections Date: Monday, August 23, 2010, 3:52 PM Y'all got the news, ja ja? I'd suggest Mindy Kitei's blog as the most readable and info-dense source on this.

[Guest guest]

i think XMRV inserts itself into the genome in a way that causes inflammation too.....but not sure

From: Penny Houle <pennyhoule@...>infections Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 12:42:43 PMSubject: Re: [infections] zee hot hot burning news, mein guten Herrn

I know I have a bacterial infection and my symptoms are really only improved with the aid of abx (antibiotics). Without them, I'm completely useless.

However, people with HIV are very prone to bacterial and fungal infections, so that's how I'm approaching this new retrovirus information. Is it possible that an underlying viral infection is hampering my immune system's ability to defeat these bacterial infections? I'm definitely looking forward to finding out if I will test positive for the virus.

I think mold and fungal infections could also be co-factors. Personally, I've learned that I'm highly allergic to mold and exposure causes more symptoms. But the reality for me is, I still need antibiotics to feel at all functional, to be able to think somewhat clearly, and to have any energy whatsoever.

Unfortunately, inflammatory symptoms continue to progress (manifesting as pain, weakness and a host of other symptoms). I am confident this is the result of a hyperactive immune system working overtime trying to fight the bugs I'm infected with.

The immune system's inflammatory response is one of the ways it copes with illness and injury. However, as we've learned, too much inflammation becomes detrimental to the body. Finding a way to slow the inflammatory response without disabling it (as with steroids) is a major challenge (which is why I was initially interested in Benicar/arbs, but unfortunately, that drug eventually caused me as many symptoms as it was supposed to relieve) .

Ultimately, the combination of infection with an over-active auto-immune inflammatory response, results in all kinds of physical symptoms, not to mention hormonal imbalances and deficiencies in nutrients that our bodies need to stay healthy.

I'm definitely finding it a bit ironic that so many people have said that our illness is due to "auto-immune dysfunction" which is basically understood to be the immune system attacking the body for no reason. But it's interesting (isn't it?) that AIDS patients also have auto-immune dysfunction (aka AIDS) and yet their immune dysfunction isn't described as an attack on their bodies for no reason; they have an underlying cause, the HIV virus.

I'm encouraged by all the attention this new virus and CFS are receiving. It makes far more sense to me than so many other hypotheses put out there by people who have denied that CFS (and other chronic illnesses) might have an infectious basis.

From: hodolog1ca <usenethod@...>Subject: [infections] zee hot hot burning news, mein guten Herrninfections Date: Monday, August 23, 2010, 3:52 PM

Y'all got the news, ja ja? I'd suggest Mindy Kitei's blog as the most readable and info-dense source on this.

[Guest guest]

The food intolerance test is more about foods which you could be intolerant to persay rather than allergic. Which tends to fall into the house-mites, pollen etc area. Did you have CFS to start. I know when I got ill for the first 6 months I was comatose? On 24 Aug 2010, at 19:47, Penny Houle wrote: I had massive allergy testing done, 3 times. The only thing I was positive for was mold. I spent years trying every CFS treatment I could find. Most are non pharmaceutical (other than symptom treatment) and emphasize supplements, diet and alternative therapies. Hopefully, your friend won't waste her time on all of the useless therapies out there, touted in books and forums. But it's difficult to tell someone that, even when you've been there. It was thanks to Tony that I ever made the connection between CFS and infection in the first place. And the people on the CFS forum where I met him were completely outraged by the assertion that infection was at fault. I'm not sure I'd still be alive if I hadn't started taking abx. I would definitely not be able to participate in these discussions if I had progressed along the path I was on. I could barely understand anything I read before meeting Tony. I could hardly understand him either (and his unorthodox writing style didn't help) but he actually hooked me up with some people locally on the same infectious path, and I finally got abx treatment which allowed me to function again. I've continued trying things, but it always comes down to abx. Take those away and I'm a complete wreck. It continues to be frustrating that I can't eradicate the infection completely. The abx keep the bugs suppressed somewhat, but I'm still looking for whatever it is that can take these bad boys out for good. From: hodolog1ca <usenethod@...>Subject: [infections] zee hot hot burning news, mein guten Herrninfections Date: Monday, August 23, 2010, 3:52 PM Y'all got the news, ja ja? I'd suggest Mindy Kitei's blog as the most readable and info-dense source on this.

[Guest guest]

I'd be surprised if it didn't. Every time we catch a bug, the immune system reacts with an inflammatory response. When we have a chronic infection, the inflammatory response gets stuck in a loop, creating far more damage than necessary. It's actually the inflammation that creates a lot of our symptoms, perhaps more than the infection itself.

CFS symptoms are so similar to the symptoms of someone with a common, short lived virus. Severe fatigue, body aches, loss of appetite, foggy brain, etc. The difference being our symptoms are continuous since the infection never gets cleared and, I believe, causes our immune system to stay in high gear, churning out inflammation and depleting it's killer cell reserves.

Our symptoms are also very similar to those of bacterial and viral meningitis, except low grade and chronic.

I've always wondered if our immune systems are actually stronger than those of people who succumb to their infections quickly. Rather than dying outright, we just slowly continue to accumulate more and more symptoms and ailments until we eventually die of diabetes, or heart disease, or some other "known" illness, which was actually just the result of our underlying illness, not the cause.

From: hodolog1ca <usenethod@...>Subject: [infections] zee hot hot burning news, mein guten Herrninfections Date: Monday, August 23, 2010, 3:52 PM

Y'all got the news, ja ja? I'd suggest Mindy Kitei's blog as the most readable and info-dense source on this.

[Guest guest]

I just had my IGA secretion level tested and it was 170% of normal capacity for general populacebleuOn 24 Aug 2010, at 20:03, Penny Houle wrote:I've always wondered if our immune systems are actually stronger than those of people who succumb to their infections quickly.

[Guest guest]

whoa, that's interesting.

I've always wondered if our immune systems are actually stronger than those of people who succumb to their infections quickly.

[Guest guest]

iga levels tested by local labsyork test only controversial because well.. have a look into it and you will see the old pundits.I seem to recall ulcers / stress vs ulcers / h.pylori was controversial too.On 24 Aug 2010, at 21:18, centrd wrote: I looked up the York Test. Not minimizing your success with it, but it does seem to be controversial. How did you test for your IGA levels? > > I've always wondered if our immune systems are actually stronger than those of people who succumb to their infections quickly. >

[Guest guest]

yeah, kind of amazing that people can't extrapolate the ulcer model/fiasco to to other illnesses.

I looked up the York Test. Not minimizing your success with it, but it does seem to be controversial. How did you test for your IGA levels?> > I've always wondered if our immune systems are actually stronger than those of people who succumb to their infections quickly. >

[Guest guest]

anyone seen House of Numbers Thats controversial. hypothesis Cofactors = aids....On 24 Aug 2010, at 21:29, Penny Houle wrote: yeah, kind of amazing that people can't extrapolate the ulcer model/fiasco to to other illnesses. I looked up the York Test. Not minimizing your success with it, but it does seem to be controversial. How did you test for your IGA levels?> > I've always wondered if our immune systems are actually stronger than those of people who succumb to their infections quickly. >

[Guest guest]

i have colloidal cysts in my thyroid now and my doctor said it can be a result of long term infection

From: Penny Houle <pennyhoule@...>infections Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 2:11:44 PMSubject: Re: [infections] zee hot hot burning news, mein guten Herrn

I was first dx'd with hypothryoid in the 90's, but no amount of hormone replacement therapy eased the severe fatigue.

I'd had bouts of fatigue for years, but would eventually come out of them after several months. Finally, in 2001, I basically went down and couldn't get up again.

I believe that thryoid disease is also linked to infection. There have been some European studies on this that have basically been ignored. On the other hand, diabetes is now being linked to infection, as is heart disease. Dental infections in both of these.

From: hodolog1ca <usenethod@...>Subject: [infections] zee hot hot burning news, mein guten Herrninfections Date: Monday, August 23, 2010, 3:52 PM

Y'all got the news, ja ja? I'd suggest Mindy Kitei's blog as the most readable and info-dense source on this.

[Guest guest]

Penny..maybe its the XMRV thats preventing your body from keeping the bacteria in check...

From: Penny Houle <pennyhoule@...>infections Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 1:47:42 PMSubject: Re: [infections] zee hot hot burning news, mein guten Herrn

I had massive allergy testing done, 3 times. The only thing I was positive for was mold.

I spent years trying every CFS treatment I could find. Most are non pharmaceutical (other than symptom treatment) and emphasize supplements, diet and alternative therapies. Hopefully, your friend won't waste her time on all of the useless therapies out there, touted in books and forums. But it's difficult to tell someone that, even when you've been there.

It was thanks to Tony that I ever made the connection between CFS and infection in the first place. And the people on the CFS forum where I met him were completely outraged by the assertion that infection was at fault. I'm not sure I'd still be alive if I hadn't started taking abx. I would definitely not be able to participate in these discussions if I had progressed along the path I was on. I could barely understand anything I read before meeting Tony. I could hardly understand him either (and his unorthodox writing style didn't help) but he actually hooked me up with some people locally on the same infectious path, and I finally got abx treatment which allowed me to function again. I've continued trying things, but it always comes down to abx. Take those away and I'm a complete wreck. It continues to be frustrating that I can't eradicate the infection completely. The abx keep the bugs suppressed somewhat,

but I'm still looking for whatever it is that can take these bad boys out for good.

From: hodolog1ca <usenethod@...>Subject: [infections] zee hot hot burning news, mein guten Herrninfections Date: Monday, August 23, 2010, 3:52 PM

Y'all got the news, ja ja? I'd suggest Mindy Kitei's blog as the most readable and info-dense source on this.

[Guest guest]

That's what I'm curious about.

Either way, I hope that this discovery leads to relief for a lot of people.

From: hodolog1ca <usenethod@...>Subject: [infections] zee hot hot burning news, mein guten Herrninfections Date: Monday, August 23, 2010, 3:52 PM

Y'all got the news, ja ja? I'd suggest Mindy Kitei's blog as the most readable and info-dense source on this.

[Guest guest]

By the way, for those speculating about these MLVs possibly leading to bacterial

infections and overgrowths, my opinion is yeah, that is quite plausible, it

would not really surprise me. And maybe other viruses too.

Results from people taking anti-retrovirals seem not spectacular, at least so

far (maybe it will just take longer). But remember, Chia has had remarkable

success treating people with interferons. They mostly relapsed, but maybe

lifelong anti-retrovirals will prevent this relapse.

[Guest guest]

yea i dont get it. i know of a few who have improved a lot on ARV's but i am not at all. and peterson claims he knows of 10 people on them at least 3 months who havent either. so it is very confusing. perhaps they need to target integrated, latent virus, which is gonna be a problem. or the env protein on the cell surface, another big problem.

From: hodolog1ca <usenethod@...>infections Sent: Tue, August 31, 2010 7:42:26 PMSubject: [infections] Re: zee hot hot burning news, mein guten Herrn

By the way, for those speculating about these MLVs possibly leading to bacterial infections and overgrowths, my opinion is yeah, that is quite plausible, it would not really surprise me. And maybe other viruses too. Results from people taking anti-retrovirals seem not spectacular, at least so far (maybe it will just take longer). But remember, Chia has had remarkable success treating people with interferons. They mostly relapsed, but maybe lifelong anti-retrovirals will prevent this relapse.