Moving fermentation pot and SCOBY formation question

[Guest guest]

I've read the recent post about how moving the fermentation pot

effect the formation of the SCOBY. I've also read post that in

Continuous Fermention that the SCOBY can get quite large. This seems

like a contradiction to me. With continuous fermention your adding

sweet tea on a regular intervals which will disturb the SCOBY seem

like this should interfear with SCOBY development.

Bill Fieszel

[Guest guest]

Hi Bill

I do continuous brewing and I have very strong SCOBYs... Believe me I am a

haphazard KT'r, I have 7 cats that cause earthquakes around the scoby, I

smoke and I work the 12 hour overnight shift, so totally ignore the KT that is

brewing.... I do believe that the KT brewing adapts to your lifestyle...

Besides if you brew more, you can let it go a couple days past the " just right "

stage....

Sandee

Bill Fieszel wrote: I've read the recent post about

how moving the fermentation pot

effect the formation of the SCOBY. I've also read post that in

Continuous Fermention that the SCOBY can get quite large. This seems

like a contradiction to me. With continuous fermention your adding

sweet tea on a regular intervals which will disturb the SCOBY seem

like this should interfear with SCOBY development.

Bill Fieszel

[Guest guest]

I'm puzzled about this too, Bill. But I was doing some research on kefir

making last night, and you shake kefir as it ferments, specifically to

avoid formation of SCOBY colony on the surface, so I know the motion theory

is true from that evidence, plus in my own brewing I've seen disturbed

SCOBY have to restart.

I think what is happening in continuous brewing is that you are disturbing

the SCOBY, but the new layer adheres to the existing one. I hope Bev or Ed

or someone will speak to this.

--V

>I've read the recent post about how moving the fermentation pot

>effect the formation of the SCOBY. I've also read post that in

>Continuous Fermention that the SCOBY can get quite large. This seems

>like a contradiction to me. With continuous fermention your adding

>sweet tea on a regular intervals which will disturb the SCOBY seem

>like this should interfear with SCOBY development.

>Bill Fieszel

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

Hi and others:

I can speak only in regards to kefir making. The reason the brew is

shaken from time to time is not to avoid SCOBY formation (there IS no

biofilm that forms on the kefir brew as there is with kombucha). The

purpose is to keep the grains in contact w/ all the milk and thereby

ensure even and quick culturing.

The kefir grains float to the top, so the kefiring action begins

there. What can happen sometimes (esp. when it's warm, or if you

have very active grains, or if you have lots of grains for the amount

of milk) is that the grains will kefirize the top layer of milk and a

whey layer forms underneath that; this isolates the grains from

getting to the rest of the milk. A gentle shake will get the grains

back into circulation. Once the whey settles out again, it will be

lower than where it formed the last time: that much more milk has

been cultured. When it reaches the bottom, the entire batch of milk

has been cultured. The ancient kefir-keepers used to brew in animal

skin bags hung over the door so that the bag would get an automatic

shake every time someone came through the door. I guess a different

method evolved for the ancient kombucha-keepers.

Regards,

Nori

Baker wrote:

>

> I'm puzzled about this too, Bill. But I was doing some research on

kefir making last night, and you shake kefir as it ferments,

specifically to avoid formation of SCOBY colony on the surface,

[Guest guest]

Nori-- This is the paragraph from the source I was referring to:

>*Shaking the fermenting kefir prevents the formation of yeasts and

>acetobacter colonies from forming on the surface. If colonies form they

>will appear as a light-brown wavy film. Skim this off, discard the film

>and use the kefir. Should you ever loose a batch of kefir (or your grains)

>to rampant overgrowth, your nose and taste buds will unerringly inform you

>to toss it.

http://www.rwood.com/Recipes/Kefir_Homemade.htm

The paragraph above is found at the bottom of this page. I used the term

" SCOBY " but that was my own interpretation. I see now she says " brown wavy

film " .

I don't know if the paragraph is true, it's just what I found on a rather

authoritative-looking site.

>I can speak only in regards to kefir making. The reason the brew is

>shaken from time to time is not to avoid SCOBY formation (there IS no

>biofilm that forms on the kefir brew as there is with kombucha). The

>purpose is to keep the grains in contact w/ all the milk and thereby

>ensure even and quick culturing.

>

>The kefir grains float to the top, so the kefiring action begins

>there. What can happen sometimes (esp. when it's warm, or if you

>have very active grains, or if you have lots of grains for the amount

>of milk) is that the grains will kefirize the top layer of milk and a

>whey layer forms underneath that; this isolates the grains from

>getting to the rest of the milk. A gentle shake will get the grains

>back into circulation. Once the whey settles out again, it will be

>lower than where it formed the last time: that much more milk has

>been cultured. When it reaches the bottom, the entire batch of milk

>has been cultured. The ancient kefir-keepers used to brew in animal

>skin bags hung over the door so that the bag would get an automatic

>shake every time someone came through the door. I guess a different

>method evolved for the ancient kombucha-keepers.

>

>Regards,

>Nori

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

Hi - Thanks for clarifying. I've never seen this site

before, but it's interesting and quite good. W/ regard to the

paragraph on after-fermented kefir (i.e., finished kefir that's

strained and left to ripened further, which is what I believe she's

talking about in the quoted paragraph): I guess any substance

that's " living " or capable of supporting life will eventually

develop colonies on the surface, but this doesn't happen in the

usual brewing cycle of kefir (typically 24 hours if your proportions

are right, but it's really anytime you observe that all of the milk

is cultured). I've been brewing for 4 years and have never seen the

film she's talking about, even to brews that I've left out

accidentally w/o disturbing. But maybe she just goes for much

longer. Very interesting, and thanks again for sharing.

Nori

>

> Nori-- This is the paragraph from the source I was referring to:

>

> >*Shaking the fermenting kefir prevents the formation of yeasts

and acetobacter colonies from forming on the surface. If colonies

form they will appear as a light-brown wavy film. Skim this off,

discard the film and use the kefir.

> http://www.rwood.com/Recipes/Kefir_Homemade.htm

[Guest guest]

Hi V

Just a thought but could the fact that your adding 10 to 20% sweet

tea to KT explain what appears to be a contradiction?

Bill

At 01:12 PM 6/1/2006 Thursday, you wrote:

>I'm puzzled about this too, Bill. But I was doing some research on kefir

>making last night, and you shake kefir as it ferments, specifically to

>avoid formation of SCOBY colony on the surface, so I know the motion theory

>is true from that evidence, plus in my own brewing I've seen disturbed

>SCOBY have to restart.

>

>I think what is happening in continuous brewing is that you are disturbing

>the SCOBY, but the new layer adheres to the existing one. I hope Bev or Ed

>or someone will speak to this.

>

> --V

>

>

> >I've read the recent post about how moving the fermentation pot

> >effect the formation of the SCOBY. I've also read post that in

> >Continuous Fermention that the SCOBY can get quite large. This seems

> >like a contradiction to me. With continuous fermention your adding

> >sweet tea on a regular intervals which will disturb the SCOBY seem

> >like this should interfear with SCOBY development.

> >Bill Fieszel

>

>

>~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

> --A.J. Muste

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bill, I have no idea. The only thing that really makes any sense to me is

that any new SCOBY formation adheres to the old. But what the cause of that

effect is, yo no se. --V

>Hi V

>

>Just a thought but could the fact that your adding 10 to 20% sweet

>tea to KT explain what appears to be a contradiction?

>

>Bill

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste