Nids vs. Dan

September 25, 2002

,

I posted this a while ago, but need to repost to answer will forward two emails

I send parents after this one. You asked about the difference between the Dan

Protocol and Dr. G. When my son was little, I started with Sidney Baker who is

the primary author of the Dan protocol. Although he helped my son, he did not

take things to the degree that Dr. G does. He gave us many unnecessary

supplements. At first I thought they were helping and kept taking some of

them, but eventually I realized they were not doing anything and stopped them.

Megadoses of anything can be dangerous.

Dr. Baker thinks that autism is a result of a leaky gut. Dr. G he believes

that the gut problem is a secondary result of a bigger issue, an overactive

immune system that fires when it shouldn't. Dr. Goldberg makes only one change

at a time to ensure that we know what is and is not working. He only uses

proven scientific methods of treating children.

Our children all have something in common. Their immune systems are not

functioning properly. Kids like my son, , have shown that if their medical

problems can be corrected, they can lead normal lives. The medications my son

is taking help his immune system to function. Unfortunately, these

interventions are not yet a cure. If I stopped his medications, he would

regress. But his successful treatment and the treatment of others like him have

shown that the Research Institute physicians are correct in their theories.

We are so close to a cure.

When started kindergarten, he was in the third percentile for speech. When

he was tested again in the third grade, was at the 85th percentile.

Fortunately, we don't need to have him tested anymore so we don't know exactly

where he would score today. On his sixth grade report card he brought home all

" A's. " But more importantly, my son is happy, has friends, and succeeds

socially. For someone who had to be taught almost every social skill, now

has a great group of friends.

Autistic children like my son are proving they are individuals with normal or

above normal intelligence. Unfortunately, they are often thought of as kids that

cannot be helped. The first psychiatrist I saw told us would never be

okay, and the best prognosis I could hope for would be that some day he would be

running a computer in some basement away from other people. This psychiatrist

(the " leading authority " on autism in our metropolitan area) went on to tell me

how most of these kids end up in prison or mental institutions and we would just

have to see how he turned out.

In retrospect, her devastating prognosis was probably the best thing she could

have done for my kid. At first I was paralyzed with grief. Then my husband and

I just got angry and vowed we would not wait around to " see how he turned out. "

My husband and I went from doctor to doctor in various states trying to find

someone to help . But what we found was too many physicians that had no

understanding or knowledge of autism. Sadly, we usually knew more about autism

than most of the so-called experts we went to see.

Fortunately, we found Dr. Goldberg in California. Dr. Goldberg uses

lab tests and proven medicine to treat autism. These medical treatments worked

for and made it possible for him to learn all the things he missed when he

was not speaking or hearing us.

One of the first things Dr. Goldberg did was to send us to Harbor UCLA Hospital

in Torrance to have a NeuroSpect analysis. This test measures the blood flow to

different areas of the brain. At the time my son had it done eight years ago,

it was relatively new technology and available in only four places in the United

States. By reading this test, doctors can tell if a child will have a learning

disability in math or reading. They can also tell if a child is ADHD or

autistic. It is hard science and a concrete way of testing if the medical

things you are doing are improving a child's functioning.

For most children correctly diagnosed with autism, the NeuroSpect shows

decreased blood flow to the temporal (and parietal) areas of the brain. My

son's spect showed he was autistic. After many years of treatment by Dr.

Goldberg, the spect was repeated. The blood flow to the affected areas of the

brain had improved dramatically.

Unfortunately, each child with is different. What works for one might not

work for another. Although similarities exist, each child with autism may have

different medical problems. Extensive lab work needs to be done to determine

what is not working in each individual. Dr. Goldberg and the Institute is

working on identifying which treatments will work for each child and testing new

agents that could possibly help more children to recover.

My kid is going to make it, but there are too many children with autism that

never will. Some parents have given up hope of ever helping their children. I

want them to know that our kids can get better.

The success we have achieved is the result of a tremendous amount of work on the

part of many people, most of all my son. It wasn't easy and there were times I

thought I would go crazy and probably did a little. My son got worse (if that

was possible) before he got better. I remember the tears and depression when we

thought we were going backwards. At times it was hard to continue when we

weren't sure we were doing the right thing.

The interventions both medically and behaviorally were not an instant " cure " and

are not for any family who is not willing to work unlimited hours. We worked

at this twenty-four hours a day. No one other than a parent can be that

obsessive and stubborn about continuing when sometimes there were no signs that

my son was getting better. The hardest part was to keep going. When he was

little I really didn't believe he would ever be " normal. " His behavior was so

bizarre. Even though I thought he would never be okay, I did many things so I

wouldn't have guilt later. I wanted to be able to say I did everything possible

to make my child better.

When I had trouble continuing, I would play a tape in my head that they thought

Albert Einstein had Autism. (Stories of his early life are very interesting.

You can tell he was a member of our club.) I was sure my child would be

brilliant like Albert and would hope he would only be a little quirky like him

too. When that didn't work, I sometimes thought of my son as a stroke victim

that I had to teach everything to, stuff that other kids just learned. These

are just a few of the mind games I used on myself when the roller coaster was at

the bottom of the hill.

In the beginning, it was how to tell which medical interventions were working.

How can you tell if medicine is working when your child has limited verbal

ability? It takes years for a " normal " child to learn language. Even if someone

could wave a magic wand made my child's body normal, he still wouldn't have been

normal. He spent too many years not speaking, not learning what he should, and

learning weird behaviors that helped him survive this hell. It took many years

to reteach him. I know my son would not be okay if we had not found Dr.

Goldberg. All the doctors told me he would never have a sense of humor or be

able to have empathy for other people's feelings. They couldn't have been more

wrong.

In sixth grade, has a speaking part in the middle school play. This was

quite an accomplishment for a lowly sixth grader who usually has to pay his dues

in the chorus. was Mr. Bundles McCloskey in the play, Annie. When I saw

him on the stage flirting with Miss Hannigan, I sometimes wonder what his life

would have been if I had believed all those doctors.

Even though Dr. Goldberg helped my child, we still argue over what is best for

my kid. My kid is going to make it, but there are too many children with autism

that never will. Some of the parents have given up hope of ever helping their

children. I want them to know that our kids can get better.

We saw too many medical doctors that had no understanding or knowledge of

autism. Most physicians did not even perform a cursory exam on my kid. They

didn't believe autistic kids could get better. They had nothing to give us, not

even hope. Unless you have experienced it, I don't think anyone can understand

just how devastated you feel when your child is given the diagnosis of autism.

Dr. G as of now is the way to go.

Marcia Hinds

- E-Mail hindssite@...

( Phone (952) 925-9803

September 26, 2002

You know, the DAN folks have plenty of anecdotal stories of the children on

their protocol doing well and some even losing their autism diagnosis.

Anecdotal stories aside, I wonder if the and the DAN folk have any

numbers to show the efficacy of each treatment.

My big concern about the protocol is that it appears to ignore the

mercury poisoning and the necessity for getting the metal out. It seems that

there is a huge emphasis on the different meds to alleviate various medical

symptoms but not very much on actually removing this possible cause. It may

not be the cause in all cases of autism (or the myriad of other autoimmune

diseases) but it is a factor in a number of cases and that seems to be being

ignored.

So does anyone know of any hard numbers on either side of this debate to

assess which side is doing a better job of helping the kids?

Terri Avalon, RN

Nids vs. Dan

> ,

>

> I posted this a while ago, but need to repost to answer will forward two

emails I send parents after this one. You asked about the difference

between the Dan Protocol and Dr. G. When my son was little, I started with

Sidney Baker who is the primary author of the Dan protocol. Although he

helped my son, he did not take things to the degree that Dr. G does. He

gave us many unnecessary supplements. At first I thought they were helping

and kept taking some of them, but eventually I realized they were not

doing anything and stopped them. Megadoses of anything can be dangerous.

>

> Dr. Baker thinks that autism is a result of a leaky gut. Dr. G he

believes that the gut problem is a secondary result of a bigger issue, an

overactive immune system that fires when it shouldn't. Dr. Goldberg makes

only one change at a time to ensure that we know what is and is not working.

He only uses proven scientific methods of treating children.

>

> Our children all have something in common. Their immune systems are not

functioning properly. Kids like my son, , have shown that if their

medical problems can be corrected, they can lead normal lives. The

medications my son is taking help his immune system to function.

Unfortunately, these interventions are not yet a cure. If I stopped his

medications, he would regress. But his successful treatment and the

treatment of others like him have shown that the Research Institute

physicians are correct in their theories. We are so close to a cure.

>

> When started kindergarten, he was in the third percentile for speech.

When he was tested again in the third grade, was at the 85th

percentile. Fortunately, we don't need to have him tested anymore so we

don't know exactly where he would score today. On his sixth grade report

card he brought home all " A's. " But more importantly, my son is happy, has

friends, and succeeds socially. For someone who had to be taught almost

every social skill, now has a great group of friends.

>

> Autistic children like my son are proving they are individuals with normal

or above normal intelligence. Unfortunately, they are often thought of as

kids that cannot be helped. The first psychiatrist I saw told us would

never be okay, and the best prognosis I could hope for would be that some

day he would be running a computer in some basement away from other people.

This psychiatrist (the " leading authority " on autism in our metropolitan

area) went on to tell me how most of these kids end up in prison or mental

institutions and we would just have to see how he turned out.

>

> In retrospect, her devastating prognosis was probably the best thing she

could have done for my kid. At first I was paralyzed with grief. Then my

husband and I just got angry and vowed we would not wait around to " see how

he turned out. " My husband and I went from doctor to doctor in various

states trying to find someone to help . But what we found was too many

physicians that had no understanding or knowledge of autism. Sadly, we

usually knew more about autism than most of the so-called experts we went to

see.

>

> Fortunately, we found Dr. Goldberg in California. Dr. Goldberg

uses lab tests and proven medicine to treat autism. These medical

treatments worked for and made it possible for him to learn all the

things he missed when he was not speaking or hearing us.

>

> One of the first things Dr. Goldberg did was to send us to Harbor UCLA

Hospital in Torrance to have a NeuroSpect analysis. This test measures the

blood flow to different areas of the brain. At the time my son had it done

eight years ago, it was relatively new technology and available in only four

places in the United States. By reading this test, doctors can tell if a

child will have a learning disability in math or reading. They can also

tell if a child is ADHD or autistic. It is hard science and a concrete way

of testing if the medical things you are doing are improving a child's

functioning.

>

> For most children correctly diagnosed with autism, the NeuroSpect shows

decreased blood flow to the temporal (and parietal) areas of the brain. My

son's spect showed he was autistic. After many years of treatment by Dr.

Goldberg, the spect was repeated. The blood flow to the affected areas of

the brain had improved dramatically.

>

> Unfortunately, each child with is different. What works for one

might not work for another. Although similarities exist, each child with

autism may have different medical problems. Extensive lab work needs to be

done to determine what is not working in each individual. Dr. Goldberg and

the Institute is working on identifying which treatments will work for

each child and testing new agents that could possibly help more children to

recover.

>

> My kid is going to make it, but there are too many children with autism

that never will. Some parents have given up hope of ever helping their

children. I want them to know that our kids can get better.

>

> The success we have achieved is the result of a tremendous amount of work

on the part of many people, most of all my son. It wasn't easy and there

were times I thought I would go crazy and probably did a little. My son got

worse (if that was possible) before he got better. I remember the tears and

depression when we thought we were going backwards. At times it was hard to

continue when we weren't sure we were doing the right thing.

>

> The interventions both medically and behaviorally were not an instant

" cure " and are not for any family who is not willing to work unlimited

hours. We worked at this twenty-four hours a day. No one other than a

parent can be that obsessive and stubborn about continuing when sometimes

there were no signs that my son was getting better. The hardest part was to

keep going. When he was little I really didn't believe he would ever be

" normal. " His behavior was so bizarre. Even though I thought he would

never be okay, I did many things so I wouldn't have guilt later. I wanted

to be able to say I did everything possible to make my child better.

>

> When I had trouble continuing, I would play a tape in my head that they

thought Albert Einstein had Autism. (Stories of his early life are very

interesting. You can tell he was a member of our club.) I was sure my

child would be brilliant like Albert and would hope he would only be a

little quirky like him too. When that didn't work, I sometimes thought of my

son as a stroke victim that I had to teach everything to, stuff that other

kids just learned. These are just a few of the mind games I used on myself

when the roller coaster was at the bottom of the hill.

>

> In the beginning, it was how to tell which medical interventions were

working. How can you tell if medicine is working when your child has limited

verbal ability? It takes years for a " normal " child to learn language. Even

if someone could wave a magic wand made my child's body normal, he still

wouldn't have been normal. He spent too many years not speaking, not

learning what he should, and learning weird behaviors that helped him

survive this hell. It took many years to reteach him. I know my son would

not be okay if we had not found Dr. Goldberg. All the doctors told me he

would never have a sense of humor or be able to have empathy for other

people's feelings. They couldn't have been more wrong.

>

> In sixth grade, has a speaking part in the middle school play. This

was quite an accomplishment for a lowly sixth grader who usually has to pay

his dues in the chorus. was Mr. Bundles McCloskey in the play, Annie.

When I saw him on the stage flirting with Miss Hannigan, I sometimes wonder

what his life would have been if I had believed all those doctors.

>

> Even though Dr. Goldberg helped my child, we still argue over what is best

for my kid. My kid is going to make it, but there are too many children

with autism that never will. Some of the parents have given up hope of ever

helping their children. I want them to know that our kids can get better.

>

> We saw too many medical doctors that had no understanding or knowledge of

autism. Most physicians did not even perform a cursory exam on my kid. They

didn't believe autistic kids could get better. They had nothing to give us,

not even hope. Unless you have experienced it, I don't think anyone can

understand just how devastated you feel when your child is given the

diagnosis of autism. Dr. G as of now is the way to go.

>

> Marcia Hinds

> - E-Mail hindssite@...

> ( Phone (952) 925-9803

>

September 27, 2002

Nids vs. Dan

>

> > ,

> >

> > I posted this a while ago, but need to repost to answer will forward two

> emails I send parents after this one. You asked about the difference

> between the Dan Protocol and Dr. G. When my son was little, I started

with

> Sidney Baker who is the primary author of the Dan protocol. Although he

> helped my son, he did not take things to the degree that Dr. G does. He

> gave us many unnecessary supplements. At first I thought they were

helping

> and kept taking some of them, but eventually I realized they were not

> doing anything and stopped them. Megadoses of anything can be dangerous.

> >

> > Dr. Baker thinks that autism is a result of a leaky gut. Dr. G he

> believes that the gut problem is a secondary result of a bigger issue, an

> overactive immune system that fires when it shouldn't. Dr. Goldberg makes

> only one change at a time to ensure that we know what is and is not

working.

> He only uses proven scientific methods of treating children.

> >

> > Our children all have something in common. Their immune systems are not

> functioning properly. Kids like my son, , have shown that if their

> medical problems can be corrected, they can lead normal lives. The

> medications my son is taking help his immune system to function.

> Unfortunately, these interventions are not yet a cure. If I stopped his

> medications, he would regress. But his successful treatment and the

> treatment of others like him have shown that the Research Institute

> physicians are correct in their theories. We are so close to a cure.

> >

> > When started kindergarten, he was in the third percentile for

speech.

> When he was tested again in the third grade, was at the 85th

> percentile. Fortunately, we don't need to have him tested anymore so we

> don't know exactly where he would score today. On his sixth grade report

> card he brought home all " A's. " But more importantly, my son is happy,

has

> friends, and succeeds socially. For someone who had to be taught almost

> every social skill, now has a great group of friends.

> >

> > Autistic children like my son are proving they are individuals with

normal

> or above normal intelligence. Unfortunately, they are often thought of as

> kids that cannot be helped. The first psychiatrist I saw told us

would

> never be okay, and the best prognosis I could hope for would be that some

> day he would be running a computer in some basement away from other

people.

> This psychiatrist (the " leading authority " on autism in our metropolitan

> area) went on to tell me how most of these kids end up in prison or mental

> institutions and we would just have to see how he turned out.

> >

> > In retrospect, her devastating prognosis was probably the best thing she

> could have done for my kid. At first I was paralyzed with grief. Then my

> husband and I just got angry and vowed we would not wait around to " see

how

> he turned out. " My husband and I went from doctor to doctor in various

> states trying to find someone to help . But what we found was too

many

> physicians that had no understanding or knowledge of autism. Sadly, we

> usually knew more about autism than most of the so-called experts we went

to

> see.

> >

> > Fortunately, we found Dr. Goldberg in California. Dr. Goldberg

> uses lab tests and proven medicine to treat autism. These medical

> treatments worked for and made it possible for him to learn all the

> things he missed when he was not speaking or hearing us.

> >

> > One of the first things Dr. Goldberg did was to send us to Harbor UCLA

> Hospital in Torrance to have a NeuroSpect analysis. This test measures

the

> blood flow to different areas of the brain. At the time my son had it

done

> eight years ago, it was relatively new technology and available in only

four

> places in the United States. By reading this test, doctors can tell if a

> child will have a learning disability in math or reading. They can also

> tell if a child is ADHD or autistic. It is hard science and a concrete

way

> of testing if the medical things you are doing are improving a child's

> functioning.

> >

> > For most children correctly diagnosed with autism, the NeuroSpect shows

> decreased blood flow to the temporal (and parietal) areas of the brain.

My

> son's spect showed he was autistic. After many years of treatment by Dr.

> Goldberg, the spect was repeated. The blood flow to the affected areas of

> the brain had improved dramatically.

> >

> > Unfortunately, each child with is different. What works for one

> might not work for another. Although similarities exist, each child with

> autism may have different medical problems. Extensive lab work needs to

be

> done to determine what is not working in each individual. Dr. Goldberg

and

> the Institute is working on identifying which treatments will work

for

> each child and testing new agents that could possibly help more children

to

> recover.

> >

> > My kid is going to make it, but there are too many children with autism

> that never will. Some parents have given up hope of ever helping their

> children. I want them to know that our kids can get better.

> >

> > The success we have achieved is the result of a tremendous amount of

work

> on the part of many people, most of all my son. It wasn't easy and there

> were times I thought I would go crazy and probably did a little. My son

got

> worse (if that was possible) before he got better. I remember the tears

and

> depression when we thought we were going backwards. At times it was hard

to

> continue when we weren't sure we were doing the right thing.

> >

> > The interventions both medically and behaviorally were not an instant

> " cure " and are not for any family who is not willing to work unlimited

> hours. We worked at this twenty-four hours a day. No one other than a

> parent can be that obsessive and stubborn about continuing when sometimes

> there were no signs that my son was getting better. The hardest part was

to

> keep going. When he was little I really didn't believe he would ever be

> " normal. " His behavior was so bizarre. Even though I thought he would

> never be okay, I did many things so I wouldn't have guilt later. I wanted

> to be able to say I did everything possible to make my child better.

> >

> > When I had trouble continuing, I would play a tape in my head that they

> thought Albert Einstein had Autism. (Stories of his early life are very

> interesting. You can tell he was a member of our club.) I was sure my

> child would be brilliant like Albert and would hope he would only be a

> little quirky like him too. When that didn't work, I sometimes thought of

my

> son as a stroke victim that I had to teach everything to, stuff that other

> kids just learned. These are just a few of the mind games I used on

myself

> when the roller coaster was at the bottom of the hill.

> >

> > In the beginning, it was how to tell which medical interventions were

> working. How can you tell if medicine is working when your child has

limited

> verbal ability? It takes years for a " normal " child to learn language.

Even

> if someone could wave a magic wand made my child's body normal, he still

> wouldn't have been normal. He spent too many years not speaking, not

> learning what he should, and learning weird behaviors that helped him

> survive this hell. It took many years to reteach him. I know my son would

> not be okay if we had not found Dr. Goldberg. All the doctors told me he

> would never have a sense of humor or be able to have empathy for other

> people's feelings. They couldn't have been more wrong.

> >

> > In sixth grade, has a speaking part in the middle school play.

This

> was quite an accomplishment for a lowly sixth grader who usually has to

pay

> his dues in the chorus. was Mr. Bundles McCloskey in the play,

Annie.

> When I saw him on the stage flirting with Miss Hannigan, I sometimes

wonder

> what his life would have been if I had believed all those doctors.

> >

> > Even though Dr. Goldberg helped my child, we still argue over what is

best

> for my kid. My kid is going to make it, but there are too many children

> with autism that never will. Some of the parents have given up hope of

ever

> helping their children. I want them to know that our kids can get better.

> >

> > We saw too many medical doctors that had no understanding or knowledge

of

> autism. Most physicians did not even perform a cursory exam on my kid.

They

> didn't believe autistic kids could get better. They had nothing to give

us,

> not even hope. Unless you have experienced it, I don't think anyone can

> understand just how devastated you feel when your child is given the

> diagnosis of autism. Dr. G as of now is the way to go.

> >

> > Marcia Hinds

> > - E-Mail hindssite@...

> > ( Phone (952) 925-9803

> >

September 28, 2002

I have watched this topic for some time and have remained silent but at this

point I would like to put my two cents in....my opinion.

My daughter who is 4 1/2 years old was profound and nonverbal at 22 months we

quickly found out as much as we could got our daughter on the DAN protocols

and even though she has not yet lost her DX she has made soooooooo much

improvement more then we could have dreamed. She can eye gaze, she not only

talks but has some expressive language...people in not only the medical field

but the educational field has followed her....with shock as to not only how

fast she has made strides but the extent she has come..........I know this

may not be a cure all for everyone and I like to keep an open mind to ALL

protocols........ but my gut here is we should all work together to help

these children.....I also know in the Autism Professional Community that is

not always easy....as if sometimes you are not in a CLICK you can be shunned

or black balled for years......... remaining strong and committed is the only

thing that can get us past this.......... I really do not like to hear all of

the Dan vs , or Kirkman Digestive enzymes vs Houston Enzymes as I follow

this also and cannot see the harm in either......... I am sure this is

disturbing to all who read this and new parents may even be left a little

more confused..........

Parents have plenty to deal with in their homes just trying to figure out

just what is happening and most of them end up educating themselves.... we

want them to move forward that is everyones goal.

I hope this does not upset anyone as this was not my intent for writing

this..just thought maybe a person who is a parent, professional, researchers,

and more who sees all sides point may give some light to new parents.. As I

do agree with many things also that DR Goldberg says but I just wish all of

us researchers, professionals, and parents would POOL our information for a

greater good of the individuals with autism.

I will go back to being quite again.

LD

September 28, 2002

I hope you don't mind a couple of cents worth interjected!

I fully understand the desire for " hard numbers " - but in this area with so

many variables affecting the children, such a difficult task to actually

quantify a child's symptoms and improvement, I'm not sure it's a reasonable

expectation. Having said that, I must admit, one of the deterrents for me -

for any intervention is that I do not believe it is a " one size fits all

model " - meaning the premise of treatment. Admittedly it may later appear

that a greater portion of the children respond to a particular therapy - but

I find it hard to believe with so many children, with such different case

histories, we will find one underlying model that suits them all. Perhaps,

if you agree in any way with this - what would prove extremely relevant,

would consequently be - the clients of a particular regime i.e. (or

whatever) who left the practise without significant improvement, and

unsatisfied with the approach. Not only is the quantity of these people

relevant i.e. 2% vs 50%, but also the profile of the children who were not

so fortunate with the treatment. If we cannot say without question that an

approach works for certain people and it's this percentage - how difficult

would it be to ask for exit interviews that allow a quantifiable percentage

of people who were unsatisfied - and a symptomology database that may lead

to links that assist a parent in deciding which treament may be

inappropriate for their child.

In the case of vs DAN and chelation.

If Dr. Goldberg is so adamant that chelation can harm a child (and I'm

assuming he means that as " chelation via a certain protocol " ) - a database

showing that 90% of previously chelated children did not fair well on the

protocol post chelation speaks realms to his point. At the moment we

have Dr. Goldberg anti-chelation, DAN sending out " love letters " the stories

of all the children who have faired well from chelation - and it sounds a

little like a he said/she said tug of war - without tangible credibility.

Much as the wonderful success storied I've seen posted on this list have

been persuasive, I believe the true story of which child will find this

treatment most effective would come from looking at the other side of the

coin in addition. For whom did this not work, and can we fathom what those

children have in common?

Carole

Re: Nids vs. Dan

Teri,

Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be hard numbers on either side. This

is why we need to do enhance research efforts in effective treatments.

There are quite a lot of treatments being applied out there and many have

great promise for many kids. Unfortunately, because good research is

lacking, we dont really know what works on who. I am one is frankly tired

of the " this group vrs that group " zealot mentality. There are plenty good

things going on in every " camp " that need to be more objectivly evaluated

so that we can begin to understand the best treatments at an indivudal

profile level.

There is some great research going on in the basic sciences as evidenced in

the International Meeting for Autism Research (IMFAR), however, I think

what is sorely missing from all this academic investigation is an

interdisciplinary synthesis. While the meeting is multi-disciplinary, I

dont see much interdisciplinary cooperation. The immunologists, genecists,

neurologists, epidemiologits, gastroentrologits, nutricianists,

pediatricians, etc need to sysnthesis and determine a common syntheisis for

the application of testing treatment models.

Autism rates are increasing from 15 to 20% per year. Better diagnosising

some argue? So what, the prevalance is undeniable. Until we find the cause,

we need to aggressively pursue and study all kinds of treatment options

based on a wide variety of theoretical perspectives. We cant wait another

10 years for NIH to find " The Gene " , or samction an " appropriate "

treatment. As there is no one gene, there is no one treatment

for all.

off soapbox,

Ray

At 05:16 PM 9/26/02 -0500, you wrote:

>You know, the DAN folks have plenty of anecdotal stories of the children on

>their protocol doing well and some even losing their autism diagnosis.

>Anecdotal stories aside, I wonder if the and the DAN folk have any

>numbers to show the efficacy of each treatment.

>

>My big concern about the protocol is that it appears to ignore the

>mercury poisoning and the necessity for getting the metal out. It seems

that

>there is a huge emphasis on the different meds to alleviate various medical

>symptoms but not very much on actually removing this possible cause. It may

>not be the cause in all cases of autism (or the myriad of other autoimmune

>diseases) but it is a factor in a number of cases and that seems to be

being

>ignored.

>

>So does anyone know of any hard numbers on either side of this debate to

>assess which side is doing a better job of helping the kids?

>

>Terri Avalon, RN

>

> Nids vs. Dan

>

>> ,

>>

>> I posted this a while ago, but need to repost to answer will forward two

>emails I send parents after this one. You asked about the difference

>between the Dan Protocol and Dr. G. When my son was little, I started with

>Sidney Baker who is the primary author of the Dan protocol. Although he

>helped my son, he did not take things to the degree that Dr. G does. He

>gave us many unnecessary supplements. At first I thought they were helping

> and kept taking some of them, but eventually I realized they were not

>doing anything and stopped them. Megadoses of anything can be dangerous.

>>

>> Dr. Baker thinks that autism is a result of a leaky gut. Dr. G he

>believes that the gut problem is a secondary result of a bigger issue, an

>overactive immune system that fires when it shouldn't. Dr. Goldberg makes

>only one change at a time to ensure that we know what is and is not

working.

>He only uses proven scientific methods of treating children.

>>

>> Our children all have something in common. Their immune systems are not

>functioning properly. Kids like my son, , have shown that if their

>medical problems can be corrected, they can lead normal lives. The

>medications my son is taking help his immune system to function.

>Unfortunately, these interventions are not yet a cure. If I stopped his

>medications, he would regress. But his successful treatment and the

>treatment of others like him have shown that the Research Institute

>physicians are correct in their theories. We are so close to a cure.

>>

>> When started kindergarten, he was in the third percentile for

speech.

>When he was tested again in the third grade, was at the 85th

>percentile. Fortunately, we don't need to have him tested anymore so we

>don't know exactly where he would score today. On his sixth grade report

>card he brought home all " A's. " But more importantly, my son is happy,

has

>friends, and succeeds socially. For someone who had to be taught almost

>every social skill, now has a great group of friends.

>>

>> Autistic children like my son are proving they are individuals with

normal

>or above normal intelligence. Unfortunately, they are often thought of as

>kids that cannot be helped. The first psychiatrist I saw told us

would

>never be okay, and the best prognosis I could hope for would be that some

>day he would be running a computer in some basement away from other people.

>This psychiatrist (the " leading authority " on autism in our metropolitan

>area) went on to tell me how most of these kids end up in prison or mental

>institutions and we would just have to see how he turned out.

>>

>> In retrospect, her devastating prognosis was probably the best thing she

>could have done for my kid. At first I was paralyzed with grief. Then my

>husband and I just got angry and vowed we would not wait around to " see how

>he turned out. " My husband and I went from doctor to doctor in various

>states trying to find someone to help . But what we found was too many

>physicians that had no understanding or knowledge of autism. Sadly, we

>usually knew more about autism than most of the so-called experts we went

to

>see.

>>

>> Fortunately, we found Dr. Goldberg in California. Dr. Goldberg

>uses lab tests and proven medicine to treat autism. These medical

>treatments worked for and made it possible for him to learn all the

>things he missed when he was not speaking or hearing us.

>>

>> One of the first things Dr. Goldberg did was to send us to Harbor UCLA

>Hospital in Torrance to have a NeuroSpect analysis. This test measures the

>blood flow to different areas of the brain. At the time my son had it done

>eight years ago, it was relatively new technology and available in only

four

>places in the United States. By reading this test, doctors can tell if a

>child will have a learning disability in math or reading. They can also

>tell if a child is ADHD or autistic. It is hard science and a concrete way

>of testing if the medical things you are doing are improving a child's

>functioning.

>>

>> For most children correctly diagnosed with autism, the NeuroSpect shows

>decreased blood flow to the temporal (and parietal) areas of the brain. My

>son's spect showed he was autistic. After many years of treatment by Dr.

>Goldberg, the spect was repeated. The blood flow to the affected areas of

>the brain had improved dramatically.

>>

>> Unfortunately, each child with is different. What works for one

>might not work for another. Although similarities exist, each child with

>autism may have different medical problems. Extensive lab work needs to be

>done to determine what is not working in each individual. Dr. Goldberg and

>the Institute is working on identifying which treatments will work for

>each child and testing new agents that could possibly help more children to

>recover.

>>

>> My kid is going to make it, but there are too many children with autism

>that never will. Some parents have given up hope of ever helping their

>children. I want them to know that our kids can get better.

>>

>> The success we have achieved is the result of a tremendous amount of work

>on the part of many people, most of all my son. It wasn't easy and there

>were times I thought I would go crazy and probably did a little. My son

got

>worse (if that was possible) before he got better. I remember the tears

and

>depression when we thought we were going backwards. At times it was hard

to

>continue when we weren't sure we were doing the right thing.

>>

>> The interventions both medically and behaviorally were not an instant

> " cure " and are not for any family who is not willing to work unlimited

>hours. We worked at this twenty-four hours a day. No one other than a

>parent can be that obsessive and stubborn about continuing when sometimes

>there were no signs that my son was getting better. The hardest part was

to

>keep going. When he was little I really didn't believe he would ever be

> " normal. " His behavior was so bizarre. Even though I thought he would

>never be okay, I did many things so I wouldn't have guilt later. I wanted

>to be able to say I did everything possible to make my child better.

>>

>> When I had trouble continuing, I would play a tape in my head that they

>thought Albert Einstein had Autism. (Stories of his early life are very

>interesting. You can tell he was a member of our club.) I was sure my

>child would be brilliant like Albert and would hope he would only be a

>little quirky like him too. When that didn't work, I sometimes thought of

my

>son as a stroke victim that I had to teach everything to, stuff that other

>kids just learned. These are just a few of the mind games I used on myself

>when the roller coaster was at the bottom of the hill.

>>

>> In the beginning, it was how to tell which medical interventions were

>working. How can you tell if medicine is working when your child has

limited

>verbal ability? It takes years for a " normal " child to learn language.

Even

>if someone could wave a magic wand made my child's body normal, he still

>wouldn't have been normal. He spent too many years not speaking, not

>learning what he should, and learning weird behaviors that helped him

>survive this hell. It took many years to reteach him. I know my son would

>not be okay if we had not found Dr. Goldberg. All the doctors told me he

>would never have a sense of humor or be able to have empathy for other

>people's feelings. They couldn't have been more wrong.

>>

>> In sixth grade, has a speaking part in the middle school play. This

>was quite an accomplishment for a lowly sixth grader who usually has to pay

>his dues in the chorus. was Mr. Bundles McCloskey in the play, Annie.

>When I saw him on the stage flirting with Miss Hannigan, I sometimes wonder

>what his life would have been if I had believed all those doctors.

>>

>> Even though Dr. Goldberg helped my child, we still argue over what is

best

>for my kid. My kid is going to make it, but there are too many children

>with autism that never will. Some of the parents have given up hope of

ever

>helping their children. I want them to know that our kids can get better.

>>

>> We saw too many medical doctors that had no understanding or knowledge of

>autism. Most physicians did not even perform a cursory exam on my kid.

They

>didn't believe autistic kids could get better. They had nothing to give

us,

>not even hope. Unless you have experienced it, I don't think anyone can

>understand just how devastated you feel when your child is given the

>diagnosis of autism. Dr. G as of now is the way to go.

>>

>> Marcia Hinds

>> - E-Mail hindssite@...

>> ( Phone (952) 925-9803

>>

September 28, 2002

Teri,

I forgot to mention that subject...sorry.......

at 22 months we did the WHOLE metabolic profile on our daughter including

doing a metal test...She had extremely high levels of mercury and aluminum

plus plus.. So I tracked her vaccines at that point we were able to prove not

only in our minds but doctors minds that treat her that vaccines does play an

accumulative effect.... I also testified in the April hearing and submitted a

large text more then I could state in the hearing as to my findings in this

area....I was so compelled to make sure people do now about what we found

that was so shocking..... not only with autism but other conditions that I

just released my newest book in CD PowerPoint presentation called Autism &

Vaccines The Story A Closer Look..... this is really a but at $29.95 because

it has many extra free files of actual documents we received during our

investigations.. this is pretty shocking stuff..... SO I guess to cut to the

chase I DO believe that vaccines are causing at least some of the autism we

are seeing if not most....... I am a part of the national child screen team

and we have come up with 6 flow sheets that outline in detail the way Hg

(mercury) breaks down the systems as to what we are seeing it is pretty

astounding what these charts show....

Hope this clarified!!

LD

September 28, 2002