Guest guest Posted April 21, 2011 Report Share Posted April 21, 2011 if there is too much copper.. it displaces zinc... With copper plumbing pipes in this country and in areas of soft water, the copper levels in unfiltered water can be higher than you might think. I think that ionic forms.. like from foods is always a better way as it is then a complex mix of minerals rather than a manmade single metal compound.. This was guidance I got from a sports scientist with an interest in nutrition. Best WishesTracey Anyone know: 1. What this should be 2. How to measure it, eg is it blood, urine, hair (our hair result is fine at 6.18 in range of 4-20) 3. Which copper supplement is best (we already use zinc monomethionine for zinc) I have read that Zn/ Copper ratio issue can manifest as B12 deficiency and directly affect terrible speech issues and toilet training {Poster said they also use daily: MB12 drops at 1300 mcg, 1 mg of 5-MTHF, 2 doses of 500 mg of carnosine} {Apparantly copper RDA 5mg/day sources are: whole grain cereals, legumes, oysters, organ meats (livers), cherries, dark chocolate, fruits, leafy green vegetables, nuts, poultry, prunes, and soybeans products like tofu}. Best wishes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 Im still not understanding why people do not give Copper (maybe Ive missed something) If you look at the KREBS cycle a lot of the pathways require copper, also the conversion of Dopamine to Noradrenaline on the catchecholamine pathway. So if any of these steps are not working then Copper is shown as one of about 3 required co-factors to correct this issue Also lack of copper can be the factor causing high lactate and lactic acid in the KREBS cycle Is no-one supplementing copper, if so why not? Thanks peter > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 10:56:46 +0000> Subject: Zinc/ Copper ratio> > Anyone know:> > 1. What this should be> > 2. How to measure it, eg is it blood, urine, hair (our hair result is fine at 6.18 in range of 4-20)> > 3. Which copper supplement is best (we already use zinc monomethionine for zinc)> > I have read that Zn/ Copper ratio issue can manifest as B12 deficiency and directly affect terrible speech issues and toilet training> > {Poster said they also use daily: MB12 drops at 1300 mcg, 1 mg of 5-MTHF, 2 doses of 500 mg of carnosine}> > {Apparantly copper RDA 5mg/day sources are: whole grain cereals, legumes, oysters, organ meats (livers), cherries, dark> chocolate, fruits, leafy green vegetables, nuts, poultry, prunes, and> soybeans products like tofu}.> > Best wishes> > > > > > > ------------------------------------> > DISCLAIMER> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 Hi With our DD Copper seemed to be implicated with her seizures.. and with copper piping in a soft water area.. she was getting copper through the drinking water... We were advised to avoid all supps with copper.. something also about it displacing zinc? This was nearly 15 years ago.. so there may have been other information which I have forgotten Best WishesTracey Im still not understanding why people do not give Copper (maybe Ive missed something) If you look at the KREBS cycle a lot of the pathways require copper, also the conversion of Dopamine to Noradrenaline on the catchecholamine pathway. So if any of these steps are not working then Copper is shown as one of about 3 required co-factors to correct this issue Also lack of copper can be the factor causing high lactate and lactic acid in the KREBS cycle Is no-one supplementing copper, if so why not? Thanks peter > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > From: peter_2_@... > Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 10:56:46 +0000> Subject: Zinc/ Copper ratio> > Anyone know:> > 1. What this should be> > 2. How to measure it, eg is it blood, urine, hair (our hair result is fine at 6.18 in range of 4-20) > > 3. Which copper supplement is best (we already use zinc monomethionine for zinc)> > I have read that Zn/ Copper ratio issue can manifest as B12 deficiency and directly affect terrible speech issues and toilet training > > {Poster said they also use daily: MB12 drops at 1300 mcg, 1 mg of 5-MTHF, 2 doses of 500 mg of carnosine}> > {Apparantly copper RDA 5mg/day sources are: whole grain cereals, legumes, oysters, organ meats (livers), cherries, dark > chocolate, fruits, leafy green vegetables, nuts, poultry, prunes, and> soybeans products like tofu}.> > Best wishes> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > DISCLAIMER> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 i supplement copper to my son, from what i understand a lot of kids have to much copper but my son was the opposite To: ABE <autism-biomedical-europe >Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 7:28:08 AMSubject: RE: Zinc/ Copper ratio Im still not understanding why people do not give Copper (maybe Ive missed something) If you look at the KREBS cycle a lot of the pathways require copper, also the conversion of Dopamine to Noradrenaline on the catchecholamine pathway. So if any of these steps are not working then Copper is shown as one of about 3 required co-factors to correct this issue Also lack of copper can be the factor causing high lactate and lactic acid in the KREBS cycle Is no-one supplementing copper, if so why not? Thanks peter > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 10:56:46 +0000> Subject: Zinc/ Copper ratio> > Anyone know:> > 1. What this should be> > 2. How to measure it, eg is it blood, urine, hair (our hair result is fine at 6.18 in range of 4-20)> > 3. Which copper supplement is best (we already use zinc monomethionine for zinc)> > I have read that Zn/ Copper ratio issue can manifest as B12 deficiency and directly affect terrible speech issues and toilet training> > {Poster said they also use daily: MB12 drops at 1300 mcg, 1 mg of 5-MTHF, 2 doses of 500 mg of carnosine}> > {Apparantly copper RDA 5mg/day sources are: whole grain cereals, legumes, oysters, organ meats (livers), cherries, dark> chocolate, fruits, leafy green vegetables, nuts, poultry, prunes, and> soybeans products like tofu}.> > Best wishes> > > > > > > ------------------------------------> > DISCLAIMER> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 I was told but an ASD chpa who did biome don hiself that Kirkman Copper was very good, he flet much better on it than other types, he only took a little of the cap FWIW Mandi x can you tell me which copper is best - is it the Biocare copper gluconate version To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe From: channabrennon@...Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 05:35:48 -0700Subject: Re: Zinc/ Copper ratio i supplement copper to my son, from what i understand a lot of kids have to much copper but my son was the opposite To: ABE <autism-biomedical-europe >Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 7:28:08 AMSubject: RE: Zinc/ Copper ratio Im still not understanding why people do not give Copper (maybe Ive missed something) If you look at the KREBS cycle a lot of the pathways require copper, also the conversion of Dopamine to Noradrenaline on the catchecholamine pathway. So if any of these steps are not working then Copper is shown as one of about 3 required co-factors to correct this issue Also lack of copper can be the factor causing high lactate and lactic acid in the KREBS cycle Is no-one supplementing copper, if so why not? Thanks peter > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 10:56:46 +0000> Subject: Zinc/ Copper ratio> > Anyone know:> > 1. What this should be> > 2. How to measure it, eg is it blood, urine, hair (our hair result is fine at 6 .18 in range of 4-20)> > 3. Which copper supplement is best (we already use zinc monomethionine for zinc)> > I have read that Zn/ Copper ratio issue can manifest as B12 deficiency and directly affect terrible speech issues and toilet training> > {Poster said they also use daily: MB12 drops at 1300 mcg, 1 mg of 5-MTHF, 2 doses of 500 mg of carnosine}> > {Apparantly copper RDA 5mg/day sources are: whole grain cereals, legumes, oysters, organ meats (livers), cherries, dark> chocolate, fruits, leafy green vegetables, nuts, poultry, prunes, and> soybeans products like tofu}.> > Best wishes> > > > > > > ------------------------------------> > DISCLAIMER> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 can you tell me which copper is best - is it the Biocare copper gluconate version To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe From: channabrennon@...Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 05:35:48 -0700Subject: Re: Zinc/ Copper ratio i supplement copper to my son, from what i understand a lot of kids have to much copper but my son was the opposite To: ABE <autism-biomedical-europe >Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 7:28:08 AMSubject: RE: Zinc/ Copper ratio Im still not understanding why people do not give Copper (maybe Ive missed something) If you look at the KREBS cycle a lot of the pathways require copper, also the conversion of Dopamine to Noradrenaline on the catchecholamine pathway. So if any of these steps are not working then Copper is shown as one of about 3 required co-factors to correct this issue Also lack of copper can be the factor causing high lactate and lactic acid in the KREBS cycle Is no-one supplementing copper, if so why not? Thanks peter > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 10:56:46 +0000> Subject: Zinc/ Copper ratio> > Anyone know:> > 1. What this should be> > 2. How to measure it, eg is it blood, urine, hair (our hair result is fine at 6.18 in range of 4-20)> > 3. Which copper supplement is best (we already use zinc monomethionine for zinc)> > I have read that Zn/ Copper ratio issue can manifest as B12 deficiency and directly affect terrible speech issues and toilet training> > {Poster said they also use daily: MB12 drops at 1300 mcg, 1 mg of 5-MTHF, 2 doses of 500 mg of carnosine}> > {Apparantly copper RDA 5mg/day sources are: whole grain cereals, legumes, oysters, organ meats (livers), cherries, dark> chocolate, fruits, leafy green vegetables, nuts, poultry, prunes, and> soybeans products like tofu}.> > Best wishes> > > > > > > ------------------------------------> > DISCLAIMER> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 Yes but Zinc also displaces copper - the balance has to be kept right So as most of us supplement zinc it seems, we risk not havnig enough copper To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe From: thelifechangers@...Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 13:13:25 +0100Subject: Re: Zinc/ Copper ratio Hi With our DD Copper seemed to be implicated with her seizures.. and with copper piping in a soft water area.. she was getting copper through the drinking water... We were advised to avoid all supps with copper.. something also about it displacing zinc? This was nearly 15 years ago.. so there may have been other information which I have forgotten Best Wishes Tracey Im still not understanding why people do not give Copper (maybe Ive missed something) If you look at the KREBS cycle a lot of the pathways require copper, also the conversion of Dopamine to Noradrenaline on the catchecholamine pathway. So if any of these steps are not working then Copper is shown as one of about 3 required co-factors to correct this issue Also lack of copper can be the factor causing high lactate and lactic acid in the KREBS cycle Is no-one supplementing copper, if so why not? Thanks peter > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 10:56:46 +0000> Subject: Zinc/ Copper ratio> > Anyone know:> > 1. What this should be> > 2. How to measure it, eg is it blood, urine, hair (our hair result is fine at 6.18 in range of 4-20)> > 3. Which copper supplement is best (we already use zinc monomethionine for zinc)> > I have read that Zn/ Copper ratio issue can manifest as B12 deficiency and directly affect terrible speech issues and toilet training> > {Poster said they also use daily: MB12 drops at 1300 mcg, 1 mg of 5-MTHF, 2 doses of 500 mg of carnosine}> > {Apparantly copper RDA 5mg/day sources are: whole grain cereals, legumes, oysters, organ meats (livers), cherries, dark> chocolate, fruits, leafy green vegetables, nuts, poultry, prunes, and> soybeans products like tofu}.> > Best wishes> > > > > > > ------------------------------------> > DISCLAIMER> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 Yes but Zinc also displaces copper - the balance has to be kept right So as most of us supplement zinc it seems, we risk not havnig enough copper To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe From: thelifechangers@...Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 13:13:25 +0100Subject: Re: Zinc/ Copper ratio Hi With our DD Copper seemed to be implicated with her seizures.. and with copper piping in a soft water area.. she was getting copper through the drinking water... We were advised to avoid all supps with copper.. something also about it displacing zinc? This was nearly 15 years ago.. so there may have been other information which I have forgotten Best Wishes Tracey Im still not understanding why people do not give Copper (maybe Ive missed something) If you look at the KREBS cycle a lot of the pathways require copper, also the conversion of Dopamine to Noradrenaline on the catchecholamine pathway. So if any of these steps are not working then Copper is shown as one of about 3 required co-factors to correct this issue Also lack of copper can be the factor causing high lactate and lactic acid in the KREBS cycle Is no-one supplementing copper, if so why not? Thanks peter > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 10:56:46 +0000> Subject: Zinc/ Copper ratio> > Anyone know:> > 1. What this should be> > 2. How to measure it, eg is it blood, urine, hair (our hair result is fine at 6.18 in range of 4-20)> > 3. Which copper supplement is best (we already use zinc monomethionine for zinc)> > I have read that Zn/ Copper ratio issue can manifest as B12 deficiency and directly affect terrible speech issues and toilet training> > {Poster said they also use daily: MB12 drops at 1300 mcg, 1 mg of 5-MTHF, 2 doses of 500 mg of carnosine}> > {Apparantly copper RDA 5mg/day sources are: whole grain cereals, legumes, oysters, organ meats (livers), cherries, dark> chocolate, fruits, leafy green vegetables, nuts, poultry, prunes, and> soybeans products like tofu}.> > Best wishes> > > > > > > ------------------------------------> > DISCLAIMER> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 I am currently using nutricology copper sebacate..and seem to get good results with..however I was looking online at a brand that sounded really good I will try this next..something about it is easier to absorb and get rid of what is not needed..http://wateroz.jeffotto.com/products/silver.htm I think this is the right web adress or you can just google wateroz jeffotto... To: ABE <autism-biomedical-europe >Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 11:19:48 AMSubject: RE: Zinc/ Copper ratio can you tell me which copper is best - is it the Biocare copper gluconate version To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe From: channabrennon@...Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 05:35:48 -0700Subject: Re: Zinc/ Copper ratio i supplement copper to my son, from what i understand a lot of kids have to much copper but my son was the opposite To: ABE <autism-biomedical-europe >Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 7:28:08 AMSubject: RE: Zinc/ Copper ratio Im still not understanding why people do not give Copper (maybe Ive missed something) If you look at the KREBS cycle a lot of the pathways require copper, also the conversion of Dopamine to Noradrenaline on the catchecholamine pathway. So if any of these steps are not working then Copper is shown as one of about 3 required co-factors to correct this issue Also lack of copper can be the factor causing high lactate and lactic acid in the KREBS cycle Is no-one supplementing copper, if so why not? Thanks peter > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 10:56:46 +0000> Subject: Zinc/ Copper ratio> > Anyone know:> > 1. What this should be> > 2. How to measure it, eg is it blood, urine, hair (our hair result is fine at 6.18 in range of 4-20)> > 3. Which copper supplement is best (we already use zinc monomethionine for zinc)> > I have read that Zn/ Copper ratio issue can manifest as B12 deficiency and directly affect terrible speech issues and toilet training> > {Poster said they also use daily: MB12 drops at 1300 mcg, 1 mg of 5-MTHF, 2 doses of 500 mg of carnosine}> > {Apparantly copper RDA 5mg/day sources are: whole grain cereals, legumes, oysters, organ meats (livers), cherries, dark> chocolate, fruits, leafy green vegetables, nuts, poultry, prunes, and> soybeans products like tofu}.> > Best wishes> > > > > > > ------------------------------------> > DISCLAIMER> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 ,I have never been happy about the whole issue surrounding copper and the tendency to resist giving it. The only way to get a reading on copper levels is to do a liver biopsy because this is where it is stored. Bloodwork doesn't tell the real story as copper is pumped into the blood from the liver when an inflammatory condition arises, something typically found in autism. In other words, just because you see high copper in bloodwork, this does not mean the body is too high in copper. There is a very interesting conversation taking place on Owens Low Oxalate Yahoo group about a mother who is giving copper contrary to our conventional wisdom and the speech is exploding. has done some analysis and thinks that if you take the ratio of the neurotransmitter metabolites HVA/VMA, you can get a reading on the copper status. Why don't you sign on to that group and see what they are finding out.I am very nervous about giving zinc without even a little bit of copper as the latter is terribly important. For me it's an educated risk which doesn't overly upset the balance too much. Copper is important for vessel wall integrity (supports the matrix) , as an anti-oxidant, a strong anti-inflammatory etc. It's not something to fool around with.I did a marathon on copper once and unless it's changed, the studies on it often remark on how difficult it is to establish status without liver biopsies.Subject: RE: Zinc/ Copper ratioTo: "ABE" <autism-biomedical-europe >Date: Monday, 25 April, 2011, 16:19 can you tell me which copper is best - is it the Biocare copper gluconate version To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe From: channabrennon@...Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 05:35:48 -0700Subject: Re: Zinc/ Copper ratio i supplement copper to my son, from what i understand a lot of kids have to much copper but my son was the opposite To: ABE <autism-biomedical-europe >Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 7:28:08 AMSubject: RE: Zinc/ Copper ratio Im still not understanding why people do not give Copper (maybe Ive missed something) If you look at the KREBS cycle a lot of the pathways require copper, also the conversion of Dopamine to Noradrenaline on the catchecholamine pathway. So if any of these steps are not working then Copper is shown as one of about 3 required co-factors to correct this issue Also lack of copper can be the factor causing high lactate and lactic acid in the KREBS cycle Is no-one supplementing copper, if so why not? Thanks peter > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 10:56:46 +0000> Subject: Zinc/ Copper ratio> > Anyone know:> > 1. What this should be> > 2. How to measure it, eg is it blood, urine, hair (our hair result is fine at 6.18 in range of 4-20)> > 3. Which copper supplement is best (we already use zinc monomethionine for zinc)> > I have read that Zn/ Copper ratio issue can manifest as B12 deficiency and directly affect terrible speech issues and toilet training> > {Poster said they also use daily: MB12 drops at 1300 mcg, 1 mg of 5-MTHF, 2 doses of 500 mg of carnosine}> > {Apparantly copper RDA 5mg/day sources are: whole grain cereals, legumes, oysters, organ meats (livers), cherries, dark> chocolate, fruits, leafy green vegetables, nuts, poultry, prunes, and> soybeans products like tofu}.> > Best wishes> > > > > > > ------------------------------------> > DISCLAIMER> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 ,I have never been happy about the whole issue surrounding copper and the tendency to resist giving it. The only way to get a reading on copper levels is to do a liver biopsy because this is where it is stored. Bloodwork doesn't tell the real story as copper is pumped into the blood from the liver when an inflammatory condition arises, something typically found in autism. In other words, just because you see high copper in bloodwork, this does not mean the body is too high in copper. There is a very interesting conversation taking place on Owens Low Oxalate Yahoo group about a mother who is giving copper contrary to our conventional wisdom and the speech is exploding. has done some analysis and thinks that if you take the ratio of the neurotransmitter metabolites HVA/VMA, you can get a reading on the copper status. Why don't you sign on to that group and see what they are finding out.I am very nervous about giving zinc without even a little bit of copper as the latter is terribly important. For me it's an educated risk which doesn't overly upset the balance too much. Copper is important for vessel wall integrity (supports the matrix) , as an anti-oxidant, a strong anti-inflammatory etc. It's not something to fool around with.I did a marathon on copper once and unless it's changed, the studies on it often remark on how difficult it is to establish status without liver biopsies.Subject: RE: Zinc/ Copper ratioTo: "ABE" <autism-biomedical-europe >Date: Monday, 25 April, 2011, 16:19 can you tell me which copper is best - is it the Biocare copper gluconate version To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe From: channabrennon@...Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 05:35:48 -0700Subject: Re: Zinc/ Copper ratio i supplement copper to my son, from what i understand a lot of kids have to much copper but my son was the opposite To: ABE <autism-biomedical-europe >Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 7:28:08 AMSubject: RE: Zinc/ Copper ratio Im still not understanding why people do not give Copper (maybe Ive missed something) If you look at the KREBS cycle a lot of the pathways require copper, also the conversion of Dopamine to Noradrenaline on the catchecholamine pathway. So if any of these steps are not working then Copper is shown as one of about 3 required co-factors to correct this issue Also lack of copper can be the factor causing high lactate and lactic acid in the KREBS cycle Is no-one supplementing copper, if so why not? Thanks peter > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 10:56:46 +0000> Subject: Zinc/ Copper ratio> > Anyone know:> > 1. What this should be> > 2. How to measure it, eg is it blood, urine, hair (our hair result is fine at 6.18 in range of 4-20)> > 3. Which copper supplement is best (we already use zinc monomethionine for zinc)> > I have read that Zn/ Copper ratio issue can manifest as B12 deficiency and directly affect terrible speech issues and toilet training> > {Poster said they also use daily: MB12 drops at 1300 mcg, 1 mg of 5-MTHF, 2 doses of 500 mg of carnosine}> > {Apparantly copper RDA 5mg/day sources are: whole grain cereals, legumes, oysters, organ meats (livers), cherries, dark> chocolate, fruits, leafy green vegetables, nuts, poultry, prunes, and> soybeans products like tofu}.> > Best wishes> > > > > > > ------------------------------------> > DISCLAIMER> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 Tracey,Do you know whether you have lead water pipes? When I went through back issues of the BMJ, doctors back in the late 1800s and early 1900s felt there was a strong connection between what they called 'fitting' and 'lead'...'Lead' kicks out zinc which might explain the study below... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19669113--- Subject: Re: Zinc/ Copper ratioTo: Autism-Biomedical-Europe Date: Monday, 25 April, 2011, 13:13 Hi With our DD Copper seemed to be implicated with her seizures.. and with copper piping in a soft water area.. she was getting copper through the drinking water... We were advised to avoid all supps with copper.. something also about it displacing zinc? This was nearly 15 years ago.. so there may have been other information which I have forgotten Best WishesTracey Im still not understanding why people do not give Copper (maybe Ive missed something) If you look at the KREBS cycle a lot of the pathways require copper, also the conversion of Dopamine to Noradrenaline on the catchecholamine pathway. So if any of these steps are not working then Copper is shown as one of about 3 required co-factors to correct this issue Also lack of copper can be the factor causing high lactate and lactic acid in the KREBS cycle Is no-one supplementing copper, if so why not? Thanks peter > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > From: peter_2_@... > Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 10:56:46 +0000> Subject: Zinc/ Copper ratio> > Anyone know:> > 1. What this should be> > 2. How to measure it, eg is it blood, urine, hair (our hair result is fine at 6.18 in range of 4-20) > > 3. Which copper supplement is best (we already use zinc monomethionine for zinc)> > I have read that Zn/ Copper ratio issue can manifest as B12 deficiency and directly affect terrible speech issues and toilet training > > {Poster said they also use daily: MB12 drops at 1300 mcg, 1 mg of 5-MTHF, 2 doses of 500 mg of carnosine}> > {Apparantly copper RDA 5mg/day sources are: whole grain cereals, legumes, oysters, organ meats (livers), cherries, dark > chocolate, fruits, leafy green vegetables, nuts, poultry, prunes, and> soybeans products like tofu}.> > Best wishes> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > DISCLAIMER> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 We take a little copper sebacate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe From: moppett1@...Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 18:39:48 +0100Subject: Re: Zinc/ Copper ratio Tracey,Do you know whether you have lead water pipes? When I went through back issues of the BMJ, doctors back in the late 1800s and early 1900s felt there was a strong connection between what they called 'fitting' and 'lead'...'Lead' kicks out zinc which might explain the study below... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19669113--- Subject: Re: Zinc/ Copper ratioTo: Autism-Biomedical-Europe Date: Monday, 25 April, 2011, 13:13 Hi With our DD Copper seemed to be implicated with her seizures.. and with copper piping in a soft water area.. she was getting copper through the drinking water... We were advised to avoid all supps with copper.. something also about it displacing zinc? This was nearly 15 years ago.. so there may have been other information which I have forgotten Best Wishes Tracey Im still not understanding why people do not give Copper (maybe Ive missed something) If you look at the KREBS cycle a lot of the pathways require copper, also the conversion of Dopamine to Noradrenaline on the catchecholamine pathway. So if any of these steps are not working then Copper is shown as one of about 3 required co-factors to correct this issue Also lack of copper can be the factor causing high lactate and lactic acid in the KREBS cycle Is no-one supplementing copper, if so why not? Thanks peter > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 10:56:46 +0000> Subject: Zinc/ Copper ratio> > Anyone know:> > 1. What this should be> > 2. How to measure it, eg is it blood, urine, hair (our hair result is fine at 6.18 in range of 4-20)> > 3. Which copper supplement is best (we already use zinc monomethionine for zinc)> > I have read that Zn/ Copper ratio issue can manifest as B12 deficiency and directly affect terrible speech issues and toilet training> > {Poster said they also use daily: MB12 drops at 1300 mcg, 1 mg of 5-MTHF, 2 doses of 500 mg of carnosine}> > {Apparantly copper RDA 5mg/day sources are: whole grain cereals, legumes, oysters, organ meats (livers), cherries, dark> chocolate, fruits, leafy green vegetables, nuts, poultry, prunes, and> soybeans products like tofu}.> > Best wishes> > > > > > > ------------------------------------> > DISCLAIMER> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe From: moppett1@...Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 18:39:48 +0100Subject: Re: Zinc/ Copper ratio Tracey,Do you know whether you have lead water pipes? When I went through back issues of the BMJ, doctors back in the late 1800s and early 1900s felt there was a strong connection between what they called 'fitting' and 'lead'...'Lead' kicks out zinc which might explain the study below... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19669113--- Subject: Re: Zinc/ Copper ratioTo: Autism-Biomedical-Europe Date: Monday, 25 April, 2011, 13:13 Hi With our DD Copper seemed to be implicated with her seizures.. and with copper piping in a soft water area.. she was getting copper through the drinking water... We were advised to avoid all supps with copper.. something also about it displacing zinc? This was nearly 15 years ago.. so there may have been other information which I have forgotten Best Wishes Tracey Im still not understanding why people do not give Copper (maybe Ive missed something) If you look at the KREBS cycle a lot of the pathways require copper, also the conversion of Dopamine to Noradrenaline on the catchecholamine pathway. So if any of these steps are not working then Copper is shown as one of about 3 required co-factors to correct this issue Also lack of copper can be the factor causing high lactate and lactic acid in the KREBS cycle Is no-one supplementing copper, if so why not? Thanks peter > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 10:56:46 +0000> Subject: Zinc/ Copper ratio> > Anyone know:> > 1. What this should be> > 2. How to measure it, eg is it blood, urine, hair (our hair result is fine at 6.18 in range of 4-20)> > 3. Which copper supplement is best (we already use zinc monomethionine for zinc)> > I have read that Zn/ Copper ratio issue can manifest as B12 deficiency and directly affect terrible speech issues and toilet training> > {Poster said they also use daily: MB12 drops at 1300 mcg, 1 mg of 5-MTHF, 2 doses of 500 mg of carnosine}> > {Apparantly copper RDA 5mg/day sources are: whole grain cereals, legumes, oysters, organ meats (livers), cherries, dark> chocolate, fruits, leafy green vegetables, nuts, poultry, prunes, and> soybeans products like tofu}.> > Best wishes> > > > > > > ------------------------------------> > DISCLAIMER> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 What type of hair test is it? I think AC book says IF mineral transport is normal, copper levels can be accurate mx thanks very much for this thread on copper - I needed the reminder - also I really appreciate the info from and . recommends metabolics children's formula as multivits - these contain copper. Does anyone know if this is a good form? I stopped giving them a while back. Tom has very low copper levels according to a recent hair test. I will give these multi-vits again. Would that be recommended?https://www.nutricentre.com/p-41028-metabolics-childrens-formula.aspxThanks, Sara x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 What type of hair test is it? I think AC book says IF mineral transport is normal, copper levels can be accurate mx thanks very much for this thread on copper - I needed the reminder - also I really appreciate the info from and . recommends metabolics children's formula as multivits - these contain copper. Does anyone know if this is a good form? I stopped giving them a while back. Tom has very low copper levels according to a recent hair test. I will give these multi-vits again. Would that be recommended?https://www.nutricentre.com/p-41028-metabolics-childrens-formula.aspxThanks, Sara x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 thanks very much for this thread on copper - I needed the reminder - also I really appreciate the info from and . recommends metabolics children's formula as multivits - these contain copper. Does anyone know if this is a good form? I stopped giving them a while back. Tom has very low copper levels according to a recent hair test. I will give these multi-vits again. Would that be recommended? https://www.nutricentre.com/p-41028-metabolics-childrens-formula.aspx Thanks, Sara x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 thanks very much for this thread on copper - I needed the reminder - also I really appreciate the info from and . recommends metabolics children's formula as multivits - these contain copper. Does anyone know if this is a good form? I stopped giving them a while back. Tom has very low copper levels according to a recent hair test. I will give these multi-vits again. Would that be recommended? https://www.nutricentre.com/p-41028-metabolics-childrens-formula.aspx Thanks, Sara x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 Sara, There are no details on contents so I'll look into detail later. It's what the copper is attached which is important because it dictates the absorbablity. I need to do some research on that. (I like Metabolics though:-)) Hair analysis I don't think will give a true status.JxSubject: Re: Zinc/ Copper ratioTo: Autism-Biomedical-Europe Date: Tuesday, 26 April, 2011, 9:42 thanks very much for this thread on copper - I needed the reminder - also I really appreciate the info from and . recommends metabolics children's formula as multivits - these contain copper. Does anyone know if this is a good form? I stopped giving them a while back. Tom has very low copper levels according to a recent hair test. I will give these multi-vits again. Would that be recommended? https://www.nutricentre.com/p-41028-metabolics-childrens-formula.aspx Thanks, Sara x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 Sara, There are no details on contents so I'll look into detail later. It's what the copper is attached which is important because it dictates the absorbablity. I need to do some research on that. (I like Metabolics though:-)) Hair analysis I don't think will give a true status.JxSubject: Re: Zinc/ Copper ratioTo: Autism-Biomedical-Europe Date: Tuesday, 26 April, 2011, 9:42 thanks very much for this thread on copper - I needed the reminder - also I really appreciate the info from and . recommends metabolics children's formula as multivits - these contain copper. Does anyone know if this is a good form? I stopped giving them a while back. Tom has very low copper levels according to a recent hair test. I will give these multi-vits again. Would that be recommended? https://www.nutricentre.com/p-41028-metabolics-childrens-formula.aspx Thanks, Sara x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 Hi , DrKees recommended 10mg Ionic Zinc and 2mg Copper, both twice aday.Perhaps this is as needed for my son,rather then general recommendation. nevin > > > > > > > Im still not understanding why people do not give Copper (maybe Ive missed something) > > If you look at the KREBS cycle a lot of the pathways require copper, also the conversion of Dopamine to Noradrenaline on the catchecholamine pathway. So if any of these steps are not working then Copper is shown as one of about 3 required co-factors to correct this issue > > Also lack of copper can be the factor causing high lactate and lactic acid in the KREBS cycle > > Is no-one supplementing copper, if so why not? > > Thanks > > peter > > > > > To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe > > From: peter_2_@... > > Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 10:56:46 +0000 > > Subject: Zinc/ Copper ratio > > > > Anyone know: > > > > 1. What this should be > > > > 2. How to measure it, eg is it blood, urine, hair (our hair result is fine at 6.18 in range of 4-20) > > > > 3. Which copper supplement is best (we already use zinc monomethionine for zinc) > > > > I have read that Zn/ Copper ratio issue can manifest as B12 deficiency and directly affect terrible speech issues and toilet training > > > > {Poster said they also use daily: MB12 drops at 1300 mcg, 1 mg of 5-MTHF, 2 doses of 500 mg of carnosine} > > > > {Apparantly copper RDA 5mg/day sources are: whole grain cereals, legumes, oysters, organ meats (livers), cherries, dark > > chocolate, fruits, leafy green vegetables, nuts, poultry, prunes, and > > soybeans products like tofu}. > > > > Best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > DISCLAIMER > > No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 I read somewhere copper sebacate (?sp) I think that's what Kirkmans is Mx Copper coupled with gluconate is not a fantastic combination as it's less absorbable, at least according to what I have read. If you don't see any improvement, consider trying another chelated form. A good one was copper orotate but the EU in its infinite wisdom has seen to it that it is off the market:-( I'm not sure otherwise what to recommend. Subject: Re: Zinc/ Copper ratioTo: Autism-Biomedical-Europe Date: Tuesday, 26 April, 2011, 9:42 thanks very much for this thread on copper - I needed the reminder - also I really appreciate the info from and . recommends metabolics children's formula as multivits - these contain copper. Does anyone know if this is a good form? I stopped giving them a while back. Tom has very low copper levels according to a recent hair test. I will give these multi-vits again. Would that be recommended?https://www.nutricentre.com/p-41028-metabolics-childrens-formula.aspxThanks, Sara x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 We have started copper gluconate now - 2mg per day - as we have been giving 53mg of zinc for ages and the ratio should be 1:10 - so maybe we will increase copper further Another thing linked with production of neurotransmitters is Mono Amine Oxidase - this is a substance that eats up neurotransmitters so can account for all of them being low (as Sophie's are) - there are a list of things that eat up Mono Amine Oxidase which include enhansa/ curcumin and gingko - We are therefore doubling our enhansa dose Best wishes To: Autism-Biomedical-Europe From: moppett1@...Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 10:24:11 +0100Subject: Re: Re: Zinc/ Copper ratio Sara, There are no details on contents so I'll look into detail later. It's what the copper is attached which is important because it dictates the absorbablity. I need to do some research on that. (I like Metabolics though:-)) Hair analysis I don't think will give a true status.Jx Subject: Re: Zinc/ Copper ratioTo: Autism-Biomedical-Europe Date: Tuesday, 26 April, 2011, 9:42 thanks very much for this thread on copper - I needed the reminder - also I really appreciate the info from and . recommends metabolics children's formula as multivits - these contain copper. Does anyone know if this is a good form? I stopped giving them a while back. Tom has very low copper levels according to a recent hair test. I will give these multi-vits again. Would that be recommended?https://www.nutricentre.com/p-41028-metabolics-childrens-formula.aspxThanks, Sara x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 more good info - thanks . Tom's on Enhansa, I'll try increasing it. Did you see any good results when you started the copper? Thanks - you're a star (as usual) Sara x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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