Re: Yogurt and goats

[Guest guest]

Becky,

We've got about 90 goats, not all just for milk but am milking 8 right now.

You don't have to heat milk high enough to damage it, just to about 115,

never higher than 120.

There are tons of books about goats and goat milk products okut there.

Raising Goats the Modern Way is one that everybody seems to like. I prefer

one sold by Acres USA tho right now I can't remember the name.

There are goat groups on line, on . You are welcome to email me with any

questions, most folks here would probably be bored with goat chat. <G>

Belinda

>

> As I have been making delicious yogurt from raw cows milk, the

> thought keeps going through my head: Why am I using this great raw

> milk, if I then have to heat it in order to make it into yogurt. I

> highly doubt that the traditional cultures who used yogurt did this

> heat treatment before culturing (I'm just guessing here...). It just

> seems like I'm losing the valuable qualities of the raw milk by

> heating it... (I know that kefir doesn't require heating, but we just

> love yogurt and haven't tried kefir, so I'd rather stick to what we

> like...)

>

> The reason I'm wondering about this is that I am seriously thinking

> about getting goats to milk and I will have my own clean source of

> milk. For the folks on the list that make goat milk products...Do

> you heat your goat milk before culturing, or is there a way to use it

> raw and get yogurt???? Does the goat milk present any trouble with

> culturing, as I have only used cow's milk...I'll probably try kefir

> one of these days, but yogurt is our favorite....

>

> Any comments are appreciated! Also, any good books on getting a

> family milk goat operation going would be helpful too!!

>

> Becky

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/13/02 1:32:09 PM Central Standard Time,

kepford@... writes:

> You wrote:

> >

> > You don't have to heat milk high enough to damage it, just to about 115,

> > never higher than 120.

>

> Is that right???! You don't have to heat it over 115 to make goat

> yogurt???? As you may have read in my last post, I really thought one HAD

> to. I remember my yogurt not " yogging " and trying to figure out why and

> the

> reason I came up with after researching it was that I was not holding the

> temp at 180 long enough. After I started doing that, I never had a problem

> again. But maybe that wasn't the problem after all! If you have made

> yogurt without heating it that high, then it must NOT have been the

> problem!

> Sonja

>

Sonja,

All I do to make yogurt is heat the milk to 115 and add some yogurt for

culture. I make my yogurt in one gallon glass containers which I place in a

plastic cooler. If it's winter and our house is cold (we heat with wood) I

will put about an inch of almost boiling water into the cooler first and

leave it there to keep the temp. Then it goes by the wood stove for 12-24

hours. After it's into the refrigerator to " set " a bit.

I've not had a problem with it and that's what I do about twice a week.

I personally had a difficult time making goat milk yogurt at lower temps.

It never turned out right. At times I could get away with low temps using

cow's milk but never with goat.

So what's been the problem? My yogurt is not the solid type you get in the

store but it sure tastes better.

Belinda

[Guest guest]

Seems to me that you are wasting a very good food by turning it into

yogurt because of the heating process. Why not experiment with various

forms of unheated cultured milk until you find one you like? Or failing

that try to slowly adapt your taste buds to something like kefir, which I

have found is quite delicious and similar to yogurt in taste.

On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:48:53 -0000 " beckymauldin2001 "

<beckymauldin@...> writes:

As I have been making delicious yogurt from raw cows milk, the

thought keeps going through my head: Why am I using this great raw

milk, if I then have to heat it in order to make it into yogurt. I

highly doubt that the traditional cultures who used yogurt did this

heat treatment before culturing (I'm just guessing here...). It just

seems like I'm losing the valuable qualities of the raw milk by

heating it... (I know that kefir doesn't require heating, but we just

love yogurt and haven't tried kefir, so I'd rather stick to what we

like...)

The reason I'm wondering about this is that I am seriously thinking

about getting goats to milk and I will have my own clean source of

milk. For the folks on the list that make goat milk products...Do

you heat your goat milk before culturing, or is there a way to use it

raw and get yogurt???? Does the goat milk present any trouble with

culturing, as I have only used cow's milk...I'll probably try kefir

one of these days, but yogurt is our favorite....

Any comments are appreciated! Also, any good books on getting a

family milk goat operation going would be helpful too!!

Becky

[Guest guest]

Becky!

Goat-milk yogurt is fantastic. It's a little different than cow's milk

because of the proteins. I can give you links to explain the protein

difference if you like. You have to heat it to 180 and hold it at that temp

for 5 min. Then let cool about 2 hrs to 115. Then add your culture. With

(commercial) cow's milk I could quickly heat it and dunk it in a cool sink

of water, put the culture and in get it in jars in the oven all within 15

min or so. Not so with goat's milk.

I really think you HAVE to " pasterize " milk in order to make it into

yogurt. Heating the milk does something to the proteins that makes it

chemically possible for the culture to " take. "

Sonja

[Guest guest]

Belinda:

You wrote:

>

> You don't have to heat milk high enough to damage it, just to about 115,

> never higher than 120.

Is that right???! You don't have to heat it over 115 to make goat

yogurt???? As you may have read in my last post, I really thought one HAD

to. I remember my yogurt not " yogging " and trying to figure out why and the

reason I came up with after researching it was that I was not holding the

temp at 180 long enough. After I started doing that, I never had a problem

again. But maybe that wasn't the problem after all! If you have made

yogurt without heating it that high, then it must NOT have been the problem!

Sonja

>

[Guest guest]

I can't say a thing about goat milk yogurt, but I used to make yogurt when I

was a kid from the raw holstein milk my parents produced. All I did was add

the culture, and put it in the oven (turned off) to let the pilot light keep

it at a slightly above room temp overnight. I recall it being not as firm

as I was used to, but this was for two reasons I think: Holstein milk is

wimpy to begin with and we often skimmed some of the cream off for other

uses, also almost all of the firm commercially produced yogurts either

contain gums, modified starches, or added dried milk to give it a firmer

texture.

-----Original Message-----

From: The Kepfords [mailto:kepford@...]

Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:33 PM

Subject: Re: Yogurt and goats

Belinda:

You wrote:

>

> You don't have to heat milk high enough to damage it, just to about 115,

> never higher than 120.

Is that right???! You don't have to heat it over 115 to make goat

yogurt???? As you may have read in my last post, I really thought one HAD

to. I remember my yogurt not " yogging " and trying to figure out why and the

reason I came up with after researching it was that I was not holding the

temp at 180 long enough. After I started doing that, I never had a problem

again. But maybe that wasn't the problem after all! If you have made

yogurt without heating it that high, then it must NOT have been the problem!

Sonja

>

[Guest guest]

I personally had a difficult time making goat milk yogurt at lower temps.

It never turned out right. At times I could get away with low temps using

cow's milk but never with goat.

I will say though, having used raw milk in healing disease for a number

of years, that any time the temperature of the milk product had been over

96 degrees, the results were not nearly as satisfying. I know the

literature speaks of the enzyme activity not being destroyed until you

reach about 112 degrees or so, but it does slow down before it is

destroyed, and our healing results just were not the same with the higher

temp. treated milk. From my observations health maintenance (let alone

the restoration of health) is better achieved with unheated cultured

milks.

just my two cents...

On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:32:50 -0600 " The Kepfords " <kepford@...>

writes:

Belinda:

You wrote:

>

> You don't have to heat milk high enough to damage it, just to about

115,

> never higher than 120.

Is that right???! You don't have to heat it over 115 to make goat

yogurt???? As you may have read in my last post, I really thought one

HAD

to. I remember my yogurt not " yogging " and trying to figure out why and

the

reason I came up with after researching it was that I was not holding the

temp at 180 long enough. After I started doing that, I never had a

problem

again. But maybe that wasn't the problem after all! If you have made

yogurt without heating it that high, then it must NOT have been the

problem!

Sonja

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sonja,

>>Heating the milk does something to the proteins that makes it

chemically possible for the culture to " take. " <<

The only reason for heating the milk is to destroy any microorganisms that would

compete with the culture.

With goat's milk, it's important to be very careful not to over heat when

sterilizing the milk. And apparently pasteurized goat's milk doesn't work

nearly as well as unpasteurized. Here are some directions for making goat milk

yogurt (They're not mine; I've never made goat milk yogurt but do regularly make

cow milk yogurt).

Scald 1 quart of goat milk only to 180 degrees. Let it cool to room

temperature. Mix a little of the warm milk with the starter (Lyosan brand is

good), and mix this back into the pot of warm milk. Incubate it for 24 hours

(incubating this long removes virtually all the lactose; cow's milk can be done

this way too).

When you incubate it, cover it with a dry towel instead of an airtight lid. I've

found this reduces moisture condensation, which in turn makes the finished

yogurt less runny, as goat milk yogurt tends to be.

After you've incubated it for 24 hrs, put it in the fridge without stirring it.

Leave it in the fridge

overnight or at least a few hours. This really helps it " set up " so it drains

better the next day. Lots of people seem to find it more digestible after

draining it.

Drain it by lining a colander with a damp clean cotton dish towel. I've tried

layers of cheesecloth, but it doesn't work as well. Put the colander into a big

bowl or in the sink to catch the drips. Lots of clear liquid will drain out. I

find about 3 cups of liquid will drain out of 2 quarts of yogurt.

Let it drain for several hours or overnight. You'll be left with luscious,

creamy, beautiful, mild-tasting yogurt.

-

[Guest guest]

From: bianca3@... [mailto:bianca3@...]

> I will say though, having used raw milk in healing disease

> for a number of years, that any time the temperature of the

> milk product had been over 96 degrees, the results were not

> nearly as satisfying.

That's strange. I wonder why. The normal body temperature of cows is over

100 degrees, so I would think that it certainly wouldn't degrade at all

until it got above that temp...

[Guest guest]

No you are right. I always talk in terms of human body temperature just

as a shortcut. My apologies. I will be more precise in the future. What

we found is that certain foods heated beyond their normal ambient temp.

(i.e as they were normally found in nature) weren't as effective for

healing purposes, coconut oil would be another example. That doesn't mean

they can't maintain health when subjected to higher temps, but in a

crisis when people were dying and needed our immediate help they were

highly unreliable.

On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:16:40 -0600 Kroyer

<skroyer@...> writes:

From: bianca3@... [mailto:bianca3@...]

> I will say though, having used raw milk in healing disease

> for a number of years, that any time the temperature of the

> milk product had been over 96 degrees, the results were not

> nearly as satisfying.

That's strange. I wonder why. The normal body temperature of cows is

over

100 degrees, so I would think that it certainly wouldn't degrade at all

until it got above that temp...

[Guest guest]

>I really think you HAVE to " pasterize " milk in order to make it into

>yogurt. Heating the milk does something to the proteins that makes it

>chemically possible for the culture to " take. "

Actually, I recently found out that's not true!

First, I switched from homogenized to unhomogenized milk and I noticed that

my yoghurt was thinner and runnier, but actually a little tastier. Then I

noticed that if I overheated the milk -- or worse, let it boil over -- my

yoghurt would have a thicker, more " normal " texture, but wouldn't taste as

good. Then I tried making yoghurt without heating the milk at all, and

it's worked fine so far, though the milk was pasteurized at the farm.

More to the point, I've spoken to people who make yoghurt from entirely raw

milk without heating it at all. They're happy campers, and I can't wait to

try it myself.

-

[Guest guest]

>The normal body temperature of cows is over

>100 degrees, so I would think that it certainly wouldn't degrade at all

>until it got above that temp...

Maybe because when it's in the cow it's in a living milk-maintenance

system? <g/2>

-

[Guest guest]

I make goat milk yogurt all the time. I NEVER heat it above 115 degrees for the

actual yogurt culturing and it turns out just fine.

Shari

----- Original Message -----

From: The Kepfords

Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:27 PM

Subject: Re: Yogurt and goats

Becky!

Goat-milk yogurt is fantastic. It's a little different than cow's milk

because of the proteins. I can give you links to explain the protein

difference if you like. You have to heat it to 180 and hold it at that temp

for 5 min. Then let cool about 2 hrs to 115. Then add your culture. With

(commercial) cow's milk I could quickly heat it and dunk it in a cool sink

of water, put the culture and in get it in jars in the oven all within 15

min or so. Not so with goat's milk.

I really think you HAVE to " pasterize " milk in order to make it into

yogurt. Heating the milk does something to the proteins that makes it

chemically possible for the culture to " take. "

Sonja

[Guest guest]

A goats normal temperature is 102-103 degrees.

Shari

----- Original Message -----

From: bianca3@...

Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:42 PM

Subject: Re: Yogurt and goats

No you are right. I always talk in terms of human body temperature just

as a shortcut. My apologies. I will be more precise in the future. What

we found is that certain foods heated beyond their normal ambient temp.

(i.e as they were normally found in nature) weren't as effective for

healing purposes, coconut oil would be another example. That doesn't mean

they can't maintain health when subjected to higher temps, but in a

crisis when people were dying and needed our immediate help they were

highly unreliable.

On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:16:40 -0600 Kroyer

<skroyer@...> writes:

From: bianca3@... [mailto:bianca3@...]

> I will say though, having used raw milk in healing disease

> for a number of years, that any time the temperature of the

> milk product had been over 96 degrees, the results were not

> nearly as satisfying.

That's strange. I wonder why. The normal body temperature of cows is

over

100 degrees, so I would think that it certainly wouldn't degrade at all

until it got above that temp...

[Guest guest]

This is pretty much how I make yogurt too. I also make it by the gallon. You

do NOT have to heat it first!

----- Original Message -----

From: bilherbs@...

Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 3:57 PM

Subject: Re: Yogurt and goats

In a message dated 2/13/02 1:32:09 PM Central Standard Time,

kepford@... writes:

> You wrote:

> >

> > You don't have to heat milk high enough to damage it, just to about 115,

> > never higher than 120.

>

> Is that right???! You don't have to heat it over 115 to make goat

> yogurt???? As you may have read in my last post, I really thought one HAD

> to. I remember my yogurt not " yogging " and trying to figure out why and

> the

> reason I came up with after researching it was that I was not holding the

> temp at 180 long enough. After I started doing that, I never had a problem

> again. But maybe that wasn't the problem after all! If you have made

> yogurt without heating it that high, then it must NOT have been the

> problem!

> Sonja

>

Sonja,

All I do to make yogurt is heat the milk to 115 and add some yogurt for

culture. I make my yogurt in one gallon glass containers which I place in a

plastic cooler. If it's winter and our house is cold (we heat with wood) I

will put about an inch of almost boiling water into the cooler first and

leave it there to keep the temp. Then it goes by the wood stove for 12-24

hours. After it's into the refrigerator to " set " a bit.

I've not had a problem with it and that's what I do about twice a week.

I personally had a difficult time making goat milk yogurt at lower temps.

It never turned out right. At times I could get away with low temps using

cow's milk but never with goat.

So what's been the problem? My yogurt is not the solid type you get in the

store but it sure tastes better.

Belinda

[Guest guest]

With all this talk about making yogurt at a lower temperature I decided to

give it a try. Usually I heat the milk (cow) to 180 degrees first. This

time I made one batch at 180 degrees and another to 115. The one heated to

180 was done in about 3 hours. It's been 24 hours and the one heated to 115

is still just as thin as it was when I added the culture to the milk. Any

thoughts on this?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/15/02 12:47:15 AM Central Standard Time,

BrenRuble@... writes:

> With all this talk about making yogurt at a lower temperature I decided to

> give it a try. Usually I heat the milk (cow) to 180 degrees first. This

> time I made one batch at 180 degrees and another to 115. The one heated to

>

> 180 was done in about 3 hours. It's been 24 hours and the one heated to

> 115

> is still just as thin as it was when I added the culture to the milk. Any

> thoughts on this?

>

>

Amount of culture? Mine usually firms up when I put it in the refrigerator.

Belinda

[Guest guest]

Are you keeping the milk to at least 100 degrees?

Shari

----- Original Message -----

From: BrenRuble@...

Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 12:41 AM

Subject: Re: Yogurt and goats

With all this talk about making yogurt at a lower temperature I decided to

give it a try. Usually I heat the milk (cow) to 180 degrees first. This

time I made one batch at 180 degrees and another to 115. The one heated to

180 was done in about 3 hours. It's been 24 hours and the one heated to 115

is still just as thin as it was when I added the culture to the milk. Any

thoughts on this?

[Guest guest]

Mine was runny like milk after 30 hours. I finally gave up, decided it just

wasn't going to work and put it in the refrigerator for the chickens. To my

surprise, when I went to get it out, 24 hours later, it was thick like

yogurt!