Guest guest Posted February 14, 2002 Report Share Posted February 14, 2002 Here's a quote from The Encyclopedia of Country Living: " Don't feed [chickens] soybeans unless they have been heat-treated because raw soybeans contain compounds that can be poisonous to chickens. " She doesn't footnote this info, but I assume it's the trypsin inhibitors. Commercial chicken food often contains soy, but it's soy by-products like soybean oil and meal left over from processing soy into other " food " , so it's been heat-treated already. So the chickens don't drop dead right away. But obviously it means the oils are rancid etc. In my small flock, I only have old-fashioned heirloom breeds. These chickens are smart (okay, for chickens). There are only 2 things I've seen them NOT eat. The first time was when we cut down branches where tent catepillars had been incubating (or whatever the word is) and were about to hatch out. We could see the catepillars through the tent silk, at least 100 of them, rolling around on top of each other. I put the branch on the ground, expecting a rush of chicken excitement and then a food orgy, but NOTHING. The chickens wouldn't touch them. I then broke open the tent silk and shook out the catepillars and still nothing. You have to understand, these chickens will attack (and eat) anything that moves: mice, moles, snakes, insects. I found a chipmunk tail lying in the yard once. Just the tail. I've seen them chase squirrels! But the catepillars, they wouldn't touch. We figured the catepillars were probably poisonous to the chickens and the chickens knew that instinctually. The only other thing they refused to eat was soy beans, or raw legumes of any kind. So I've always made sure that even in kitchen scraps there's no soy, especially in forms or products where the chickens may not recognize it, eg baked into something. Nobody in my house eats soy at all anymore, but some of us did until recently--I should have let my chickens teach me something. I make yogurt from raw milk. All the instructions I had said to heat to 180, but I wondered why. What was the point of tracking down a raw milk source--illegal in Massachusetts? I pick it up for me and my sister, who refers to my milk delivery as " the drug drop. " So I tried just heating it 110. It worked fine. I put it in a glass jar, wrap my polartec jacket around it, and stick the whole thing on the heating vent. I even left it once by accident for 36 hours, and nothing bad happened at all. My sister thinks it's runnier than store bought, but she drains it for 2-3 hours and then it's really thick. And the chickens LOVE the whey... Lierre __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2002 Report Share Posted February 14, 2002 Cool story, I guess having just had normal housepets like dogs and cats, I never realized that chickens were anything but dumb, clucking animals. Pretty clever about the soy! And the stories about them eating snakes and squirrels puts the 'all vegetarian feed' chicken eggs into perspective. > Here's a quote from The Encyclopedia of Country > Living: " Don't feed [chickens] soybeans unless they > have been heat-treated because raw soybeans contain > compounds that can be poisonous to chickens. " She > doesn't footnote this info, but I assume it's the > trypsin inhibitors. Commercial chicken food often > contains soy, but it's soy by-products like soybean > oil and meal left over from processing soy into other > " food " , so it's been heat-treated already. So the > chickens don't drop dead right away. But obviously it > means the oils are rancid etc. > In my small flock, I only have old-fashioned > heirloom breeds. These chickens are smart (okay, for > chickens). There are only 2 things I've seen them NOT > eat. The first time was when we cut down branches > where tent catepillars had been incubating (or > whatever the word is) and were about to hatch out. We > could see the catepillars through the tent silk, at > least 100 of them, rolling around on top of each > other. I put the branch on the ground, expecting a > rush of chicken excitement and then a food orgy, but > NOTHING. The chickens wouldn't touch them. I then > broke open the tent silk and shook out the catepillars > and still nothing. You have to understand, these > chickens will attack (and eat) anything that moves: > mice, moles, snakes, insects. I found a chipmunk tail > lying in the yard once. Just the tail. I've seen them > chase squirrels! But the catepillars, they wouldn't > touch. We figured the catepillars were probably > poisonous to the chickens and the chickens knew that > instinctually. The only other thing they refused to > eat was soy beans, or raw legumes of any kind. So I've > always made sure that even in kitchen scraps there's > no soy, especially in forms or products where the > chickens may not recognize it, eg baked into > something. Nobody in my house eats soy at all anymore, > but some of us did until recently--I should have let > my chickens teach me something. > I make yogurt from raw milk. All the instructions I > had said to heat to 180, but I wondered why. What was > the point of tracking down a raw milk source--illegal > in Massachusetts? I pick it up for me and my sister, > who refers to my milk delivery as " the drug drop. " So > I tried just heating it 110. It worked fine. I put it > in a glass jar, wrap my polartec jacket around it, and > stick the whole thing on the heating vent. I even left > it once by accident for 36 hours, and nothing bad > happened at all. My sister thinks it's runnier than > store bought, but she drains it for 2-3 hours and then > it's really thick. And the chickens LOVE the whey... > Lierre > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2002 Report Share Posted February 14, 2002 I've been thinking about this a lot lately... It seems to me that virtually every mainstream health food is identifiable as a product that is easily converted to a commodity which can be centrally controlled by a corporation. This is very difficult with ruminants and even pigs, but not so with grains, legumes, some seafoods, or chicken! Chickens are a low capital investment, can go from egg to freezer in under 4 months and are raised in vast buildings with every hallmark of a factory. The power of the marketable commodity is such that they even have most pet owners believing that grains and legumes are good for their cats and dogs! Dogs may be opportunistic scavengers as much as they are predators, but grammivores they are not! So certain foods are believed to be healthy because there is a coordinated industry with deep pockets convincing people that they are healthy. Larger animals, on the other hand, are more often raised by somewhat smaller operations and are more difficult to successfully raise in the deplorable factory conditions. The power is therefore more decentralized and less organized. This too is changing now. There is now an emerging market of beef branding (marketing style not hot iron style). This new branding push can be good, but is and will be mostly bad. It can be good when it's fully independent farmers pooling together to simplify their marketing and their customer's shopping. It's bad, however, when it's merely a corporation with no tie to the farmers. The corporation will set bureaucratic " standards " that take away the power of the farmers to be stewards of their land and animals; it sets pricing that may deviate from market prices because of contracts. When there are corporations and contracts, good farmers will lose every time. A corporation has the resources to forecast probable yields and market saturation in advance. Their contract prices will be set accordingly. Market prices can go up unexpectedly as supply drops due to natural circumstances (disease, drought, heat, disasters), but prices going down are only going to be really unexpected for the individual farmer. It takes time to bring animals to market, and it takes animals to make more animals. The corporations can figure out that supply is going to *probably* outstrip demand considerably well in advance of the market actually tumbling...and it's in their interest for it to tumble. Minneapolis -----Original Message----- From: bilherbs@... [mailto:bilherbs@...] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 9:25 AM Subject: Re: Re: chicken feed and yogurt In a message dated 2/14/02 9:19:20 AM Central Standard Time, justin_bond@... writes: > Cool story, I guess having just had normal housepets like dogs and > cats, I never realized that chickens were anything but dumb, clucking > animals. Pretty clever about the soy! And the stories about them > eating snakes and squirrels puts the 'all vegetarian feed' chicken > eggs into perspective. > > > I often wonder why chicken (meat) is considered so darn healthy when they will eat anything. As my hubby puts it " they are just land locked buzzards. " Then goats, who will pick through a field in no time, rejecting most of what they see, are thought of as awful to eat as is beef. Oh well...a favorite rant of mine, I've probably posted it here already. Belinda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2002 Report Share Posted February 14, 2002 Belinda, You are so right about the goat meat! In fact anything to do with " goats " usually turns the noses up in disgust in the general public. As you said, if given the choice, they are a very picky animal about their food choices. As you probably know, goats love tree leaves. I had a brother-in-law that was convinced that goats would eat anything. He took a tender leaf from the tree, put it in his mouth to get his saliva on it, and offered it to the goats. Not a one would touch it. He couldn't believe it! By the way goat milk products and goat meat are wonderful! This reminds me of a question I have been pondering for the group... What do you think of the theory that goat milk is better for humans based on the size of the animals? Cow milk being made for 100# calves to get to 1000# animals when grown, while goat milk would be closer to human milk because you are starting out with a baby to adult ratio that is much more near a humans, approximately 7# kid goat to a 120# grown goat. Would love to see some opinions on this. Shari ----- Original Message ----- From: bilherbs@... Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 9:24 AM Subject: Re: Re: chicken feed and yogurt In a message dated 2/14/02 9:19:20 AM Central Standard Time, justin_bond@... writes: > Cool story, I guess having just had normal housepets like dogs and > cats, I never realized that chickens were anything but dumb, clucking > animals. Pretty clever about the soy! And the stories about them > eating snakes and squirrels puts the 'all vegetarian feed' chicken > eggs into perspective. > > > I often wonder why chicken (meat) is considered so darn healthy when they will eat anything. As my hubby puts it " they are just land locked buzzards. " Then goats, who will pick through a field in no time, rejecting most of what they see, are thought of as awful to eat as is beef. Oh well...a favorite rant of mine, I've probably posted it here already. Belinda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2002 Report Share Posted February 15, 2002 I have been informed by many a rabbi and priest that the clean/unclean distinction made in the Old Testament is, among other things, a reflection of the way an animal processes food, not just what it eats. So a chicken would be a clean food while a pig would not because one is able to render " bad " foods " clean " and a pig simply has whatever it eats become a part of its flesh. What say you? On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:24:33 EST bilherbs@... writes: In a message dated 2/14/02 9:19:20 AM Central Standard Time, justin_bond@... writes: > Cool story, I guess having just had normal housepets like dogs and > cats, I never realized that chickens were anything but dumb, clucking > animals. Pretty clever about the soy! And the stories about them > eating snakes and squirrels puts the 'all vegetarian feed' chicken > eggs into perspective. > > > I often wonder why chicken (meat) is considered so darn healthy when they will eat anything. As my hubby puts it " they are just land locked buzzards. " Then goats, who will pick through a field in no time, rejecting most of what they see, are thought of as awful to eat as is beef. Oh well...a favorite rant of mine, I've probably posted it here already. Belinda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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