Re: Water filters and fluoride removal

February 11, 2002

Could you provide an update when you decide on one

with web site, model or whatever you think useful? I'd

be interested in that information.

Sharon

--- dan_judd_1255 <djudd1@...> wrote:

>

> Hello, I just finished reading a wonderful book

> about water

> filtration titled " Don't drink the water, the

> essential guide to our

> contaminated drinking water and what you can do

> about it " . The author

> is Luno Kahuna Kupua A'O (from Hawaii). The book was

> published in

> 1998.

>

> In summary, he states that it IS possible to remove

> fluoride without

> a RO system while retaining healthy minerals!

>

> At the end of the book, he offers the following

> recommendation:

>

> " At the time of this writing, the best overall

> choice for most people

> appears to be either dual or triple canister systems

> employing

> standard cartridges that can be easily replaced. The

> heart of the

> system uses a KDF/granular activated carbon

> cartridge to remove

> chlorine, its associated DBPs, VOCs and other

> harmful organic and

> inorganic chemicals, and heavy metals. This

> cartridge should precede

> a second stage carbon block cartridge that will

> block the cysts of

> organisms like Giardia and Cryptosporidium, as well

> as remove certain

> other organic compounds that may have gotten through

> the first

> cartridge. When KDF meida is used as a prefilter, it

> will aid in

> keeping the carbon media bacteriostatic, and help it

> to last far

> longer. "

>

> " If fluoride is a problem, these stages may be

> followed by a third

> stage which employs a cartridge specially designed

> to remove fluoride

> effectively. "

>

> " This type of system can be more effective than

> reverse-osmosis at

> removing most kinds of harmful contaminants; it is

> less expensive to

> buy, install, and maintain, and it doesn't waste

> water. Best of all,

> it doesn't remove healthful minerals such as

> calcium, potassium,

> magnesium, and phosphorus which exist in water in

> their most

> bioavailable form. "

>

> I have found several filters for sale meeting this

> description by

> doing a web search on KDF/fluoride/undercounter. I

> am considering one

> for purchase. I have decided against the

> wholly-water filter because

> it releases the toxic elements back into the public

> water system, and

> I can get one of these other ones instead which

> won't do this.

>

> Just an update for anyone who might be interested!

>

> , Rochester NY

>

__________________________________________________

February 11, 2002

" I have decided against the wholly-water filter because

it releases the toxic elements back into the public water system, and

I can get one of these other ones instead which won't do this. "

:

What did you mean by this comment? How does the wholly-water filter do this?

Dana

February 11, 2002

Greetings ,

I would suggest you inquire as to how a system comprised of just

carbon and KDF stages could address very difficult toxins such as

MTBE and chromium-6, which seem to be all over the place. Does one

have to get an extra cartridge for each of those too? What happens

when we find out about the next nasty thing which has been in our

water for years, and which is very hard to get out? (MTBE and

chromium-6 were in our water for years before we realized it. The

author of that book prob. was unaware of these in 1998. And only a

triple purifying system gets all this stuff out.)

Also, you've got to ask how any system that is supposed to leave

the " good " minerals in the water manages to get out the bad

minerals. You get your calcium and zinc but not the lead arsenic or

copper? Maybe the author knows about a " smart filter " that takes out

certain minerals but not others! I'd like to know about that but am

very skeptical....

I wish it were not the case but I have to say that with water

filtration/purification, you get what you pay for. It may sound nice

to pay just a little to get great water but unless you live in

Hunzaland it doesn't work that way. I know that I speak as someone

who sells a particular system, but we could have chosen anything out

there, and still can. Anyone who tells you that you can have good

water using carbon and KDF today is probably writing from an island

in the south Pacific.

All the best in your quest,

>

> Hello, I just finished reading a wonderful book about water

> filtration titled " Don't drink the water, the essential guide to

our

> contaminated drinking water and what you can do about it " . The

author

> is Luno Kahuna Kupua A'O (from Hawaii). The book was published in

> 1998.

>

> In summary, he states that it IS possible to remove fluoride

without

> a RO system while retaining healthy minerals!

>

> At the end of the book, he offers the following recommendation:

>

> " At the time of this writing, the best overall choice for most

people

> appears to be either dual or triple canister systems employing

> standard cartridges that can be easily replaced. The heart of the

> system uses a KDF/granular activated carbon cartridge to remove

> chlorine, its associated DBPs, VOCs and other harmful organic and

> inorganic chemicals, and heavy metals. This cartridge should

precede

> a second stage carbon block cartridge that will block the cysts of

> organisms like Giardia and Cryptosporidium, as well as remove

certain

> other organic compounds that may have gotten through the first

> cartridge. When KDF meida is used as a prefilter, it will aid in

> keeping the carbon media bacteriostatic, and help it to last far

> longer. "

>

> " If fluoride is a problem, these stages may be followed by a third

> stage which employs a cartridge specially designed to remove

fluoride

> effectively. "

>

> " This type of system can be more effective than reverse-osmosis at

> removing most kinds of harmful contaminants; it is less expensive

to

> buy, install, and maintain, and it doesn't waste water. Best of

all,

> it doesn't remove healthful minerals such as calcium, potassium,

> magnesium, and phosphorus which exist in water in their most

> bioavailable form. "

>

> I have found several filters for sale meeting this description by

> doing a web search on KDF/fluoride/undercounter. I am considering

one

> for purchase. I have decided against the wholly-water filter

because

> it releases the toxic elements back into the public water system,

and

> I can get one of these other ones instead which won't do this.

>

> Just an update for anyone who might be interested!

>

> , Rochester NY

February 11, 2002

GREAT info! Thanks for sharing.

----- Original Message -----

From: dan_judd_1255

Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 12:17 PM

Subject: Water filters and fluoride removal

Hello, I just finished reading a wonderful book about water

filtration titled " Don't drink the water, the essential guide to our

contaminated drinking water and what you can do about it " . The author

is Luno Kahuna Kupua A'O (from Hawaii). The book was published in

1998.

In summary, he states that it IS possible to remove fluoride without

a RO system while retaining healthy minerals!

At the end of the book, he offers the following recommendation:

" At the time of this writing, the best overall choice for most people

appears to be either dual or triple canister systems employing

standard cartridges that can be easily replaced. The heart of the

system uses a KDF/granular activated carbon cartridge to remove

chlorine, its associated DBPs, VOCs and other harmful organic and

inorganic chemicals, and heavy metals. This cartridge should precede

a second stage carbon block cartridge that will block the cysts of

organisms like Giardia and Cryptosporidium, as well as remove certain

other organic compounds that may have gotten through the first

cartridge. When KDF meida is used as a prefilter, it will aid in

keeping the carbon media bacteriostatic, and help it to last far

longer. "

" If fluoride is a problem, these stages may be followed by a third

stage which employs a cartridge specially designed to remove fluoride

effectively. "

" This type of system can be more effective than reverse-osmosis at

removing most kinds of harmful contaminants; it is less expensive to

buy, install, and maintain, and it doesn't waste water. Best of all,

it doesn't remove healthful minerals such as calcium, potassium,

magnesium, and phosphorus which exist in water in their most

bioavailable form. "

I have found several filters for sale meeting this description by

doing a web search on KDF/fluoride/undercounter. I am considering one

for purchase. I have decided against the wholly-water filter because

it releases the toxic elements back into the public water system, and

I can get one of these other ones instead which won't do this.

Just an update for anyone who might be interested!

, Rochester NY

February 11, 2002

Marcella,

We get our water from a spring in a remote valley in northern

California. When we moved here, we drank the sweet tasting water for

3 weeks before our skin got flaky and dry and our lips got really

chapped. Changing to restructured RO water, our skin and lips went

back to their soft normal state. We believe that it was the

inorganic minerals in the water that led to our dry skin

(dehydration). Many people believe that the inorganic minerals in

water can lead to plaqueing of the arteries, gall stones/kidney

stones, dehydration, calcification of the joints, etc. I know this

is controversial with some, but we feel that we do much better with

purified water with the minerals removed, then restructured and ionic

organic minerals returned in trace amounts. Even though we live in

the country with no industry nearby and good tasting spring water

this is what we have chosen.

Those who either don't believe or don't care that inorganic minerals

are bad for you, could just drink spring water straight if there are

no chemicals or chlorine in the water, or maybe just run it through a

Doulton with an Ultra-Carb cartridge to get out trace chemicals and

microorganisms....

Hope this helps,

> > >

> > > Hello, I just finished reading a wonderful book about water

> > > filtration titled " Don't drink the water, the essential guide to

> >our

> > > contaminated drinking water and what you can do about it " . The

> >author

> > > is Luno Kahuna Kupua A'O (from Hawaii). The book was published

in

> > > 1998.

> > >

> > > In summary, he states that it IS possible to remove fluoride

> >without

> > > a RO system while retaining healthy minerals!

> > >

> > > At the end of the book, he offers the following recommendation:

> > >

> > > " At the time of this writing, the best overall choice for most

> >people

> > > appears to be either dual or triple canister systems employing

> > > standard cartridges that can be easily replaced. The heart of

the

> > > system uses a KDF/granular activated carbon cartridge to remove

> > > chlorine, its associated DBPs, VOCs and other harmful organic

and

> > > inorganic chemicals, and heavy metals. This cartridge should

> >precede

> > > a second stage carbon block cartridge that will block the cysts

of

> > > organisms like Giardia and Cryptosporidium, as well as remove

> >certain

> > > other organic compounds that may have gotten through the first

> > > cartridge. When KDF meida is used as a prefilter, it will aid in

> > > keeping the carbon media bacteriostatic, and help it to last far

> > > longer. "

> > >

> > > " If fluoride is a problem, these stages may be followed by a

third

> > > stage which employs a cartridge specially designed to remove

> >fluoride

> > > effectively. "

> > >

> > > " This type of system can be more effective than reverse-osmosis

at

> > > removing most kinds of harmful contaminants; it is less

expensive

> >to

> > > buy, install, and maintain, and it doesn't waste water. Best of

> >all,

> > > it doesn't remove healthful minerals such as calcium, potassium,

> > > magnesium, and phosphorus which exist in water in their most

> > > bioavailable form. "

> > >

> > > I have found several filters for sale meeting this description

by

> > > doing a web search on KDF/fluoride/undercounter. I am

considering

> >one

> > > for purchase. I have decided against the wholly-water filter

> >because

> > > it releases the toxic elements back into the public water

system,

> >and

> > > I can get one of these other ones instead which won't do this.

> > >

> > > Just an update for anyone who might be interested!

> > >

> > > , Rochester NY

> >

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:

http://mobile.msn.com

February 12, 2002

One more thing - I am still working on compiling a series of " smoking

guns " that prove that it is most often better to remove the minerals

found in water (along with any toxins) and then add small amounts of

ionic, " organic " minerals. If anyone has come across studies or

other hard evidence either way (even personal reports) I would love

to hear about them.

Thanks!

February 12, 2002

Hi ,

In my opinion the issue is not whether the human race can survive

drinking mineralized water, for it is obvious that both humans and

animals can. However, rain water is demineralized, as is snow and

glacier melt for the most part, so there is no doubt a long history

of humans drinking mineral-free or low-mineral water on this planet.

If we acknowledge that the nature of water varies in different parts

of the world, from iron-stained strong-smelling well water that I

recall from my grandfather's house in my childhood, to the sweet (and

less mineral-filled) spring water at my house today, to rain water,

we might surmise that different classes of water, like different

classes of food, might have different potentials for promoting

health. The problem is that the best waters are not equally

distributed or equally accessible to all peoples around the world.

Take the famed waters of Hunzaland and a few other places around the

world, which are reputed to possess special " anamalous properties "

which promote health and longevity. Each of these waters comes from

glaciers (from mineral-free snow and rain) and while they often

collect minerals as they melt, these minerals have unusual properties

because they have been ground so fine by the glaciers. These tiny

mineral particles have the effect of lowering surface tension and

raising the energy/zeta potential of the water which allows the water

to be more easily utilized by the body. We feel that the plants and

then the animals that eat them convert these minerals into forms that

when eaten by humans, are very health-promoting, but that the

minerals in Hunza water are not a major benefit for humans just

through drinking. This would be a great area for very thorough and

hard scientific research.

And don't forget Dr. , who was commissioned in the 20th

century to discover why people from some towns in France got cancer

and other diseases at much higher rates than those in other towns.

His findings were that the waters of some towns had low electron

contents (were oxidized) and that correlated with sickness and

disease. Other towns enjoyed water with high electron contents and

had much better health. (Electron-enrichment by the way is one of

the objectives of our water system and of the " Q " which is an

incredible new device that essentially bathes the body in

regenerating electrons to use however our innate intelligence sees

fit.)

My point in mentioning the Hunzas and Dr. 's research is that

clearly the best waters are not equally distributed around the

planet. Some waters may have a nice low but organic mineral content,

and also a low electron content. Other waters may have a high

electron content but a high surface tension and high inorg.

minerals. To understand the health-promoting potentials of specific

waters, observed in various (and often separate) places in nature,

and then to bring these all together for the benefit of us modern

folk in a home unit has been the goal of our research.

Sure we can survive drinking whatever water happens to be around.

What is the health-promoting potential of the water we drink? is the

real question.

Hope this helps,

> If it is " better " to remove naturally occuring " minerals found in

water, " how did the human race survive before they had the technology

to do that?

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: radlife2002

> @y...

> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 9:52 PM

> Subject: Re: Water filters and fluoride removal

>

> One more thing - I am still working on compiling a series

of " smoking

> guns " that prove that it is most often better to remove the

minerals

> found in water (along with any toxins) and then add small amounts

of

> ionic, " organic " minerals. If anyone has come across studies or

> other hard evidence either way (even personal reports) I would

love

> to hear about them.

>

> Thanks!

>

February 12, 2002

,

With respect to water there are a number of ways to measure " energy "

content and other related properties. The most obvious is to look at

oxidation-reduction potential (ORP) which measures the electron

content (including H-). ORP is kind of the opposite of pH which

measures hydrion ions (H+). I have used an ORP meter to measure

fresh wheatgrass juice (-100mV) which is about the best reading we

have found from food or juice sources. You can also test your

favorite antioxidants which if good will often be in that same (-

100mV) range, give or take 75. The two best ORP readings we have seen

have been from Microhydrin (@-750mV) and the Q, which measures in at -

1000mV without one's body in the same water.

It is also possible to ascertain a sort of total energetic frequency

measurement of a person or thing using an incredible computer program

called the Quantum Xeroid from a Hungarian genius. Believe it or

not, it can measure total frequency with astounding accuracy whether

or not it is in proximity or at a distance. May sound woo-woo but it

is just an scientific instrument that is beyond the range of

traditional paradigms....

There is also a digital Kirlian photography technique which I just

ran into, and it looks like it may be a promising way to measure the

subtle energies/properties in a given sample of water. (I hope to be

able to try it out this month!)

Surface tension can be measured with a tensiometer very accurately

and I believe that this is in relationship with the zeta potential,

which is another energetic measurement of water.

Then there are the energetic memory aspects of water which make

homeopathy a possibility. Water seems to have an energetic memory

that is affected by everything it comes into contact with. Any

homeopath can say more about this. Also do a search for " Messages

from Water " to learn about this. This Japanese scientist has

developed a technique for photographing forming ice crystals made by

different waters - remarkable study - and I would love to see this

duplicated and replicated in other labs.

As for microwave ovens, I have been told that the microwaves force a

certain polarity or spin of a component of the water molecules to

oscillate very fast which leads to heat. This oscillation is not

natural and evidently gives food unhealthful qualities. There are

probably other negative parts of this process as well....

Cheers,

> > These tiny mineral particles have the effect of lowering surface

tension

> > and raising the energy/zeta potential of the water which allows

the water

> > to be more easily utilized by the body.

>

> I would really like to hear some explanations of what is being

referred to

> when people talk water's energy. The same goes for the effects of

microwave

> ovens on food (I'm still not really clear on what those effects are

either).

> When we talk about these things are we talking about reproducible

laboratory

> findings that have at least some kind of scientific backing (even if

> controversial)?

>

> Any and all clarifications and references are appreciated! Anyone

with

> unpopular clarifications or references is invited to email me

offlist if

> they'd prefer. Thanks!

>

February 13, 2002

Hi Barb,

More and more people are becoming aware of the importance and healing

potential of high electron water. The Q is an exciting development

in this area that has only been in this country for a couple years,

and was invented in Australia about five years ago.

In a nutshell, these folks have found a way to convert grid energy

from your home outlet to bioavailable energy that your body can use.

It's basically an organic battery charger. You just put your feet in

the water or take a bath with it and your body absorbs the energy.

It seems to be both a matter of filling the water with electrons (-

1000mV) which your body can use however it sees fit (for

regeneration, detox, etc.) as well as creating a quantum field that

is significant in ways that I still can't explain.

Our colleague Dr. Higgins likes to describe it this way: most of us

are running around with 3 volts in our 12 volt batteries, and even

the healthiest folks he runs into run around 6 volts. What this

means is that our innate intelligence, our incredible healer within,

has to remain in survival mode most of the time, just getting us

through our days. In this condition our bodies are forced to create

a laundry list of self-healing actions that it will do -someday- when

it has the energy. Getting our batteries charged, which is what the

Q does (1 session every other day 17-35 minutes) empowers our innate

healing intelligence to tackle those major projects, which could

include basically anything standing in the way of radiant health. So

the Q doesn't heal, it supports our own healer.

There are practitioners who actually test their patients to see if

they have enough of an energy level to work with on a healing

program, and if they don't they send the patient off to work with

staff on a rejuvenation protocol for as long as it takes to get their

energy level high enough so that their body can participate in the

healing work. We shouldn't underestimate the importance and

potential of activating our innate intelligence and giving it the

energy to do its work.

ORP of the water in a Q bath starts out at -1000mV and when an

average person puts their feet or body in the water the measurable

ORP of the water goes down to around -200mV. This often lasts around

15-20 minutes while the person's body literally (and hungrily)

absorbs electrons (recharging their battery). Then, apparently when

they are full, the measurable ORP in the water rises toward -1000

again. As for pH - I'm not sure, but can get back to you. I don't

think it does much to the surface tension but it well may. Results

and info are still coming in on this unit. You can charge water for

drinking but the recommendation is to only take a glass or so a day.

Similarly one only does a Q bath every other day to avoid

overcharging.

From my use of the Q I have noticed significantly extra energy, the

need for markedly less sleep, stabilized mood elevation, and an

unusually clear, quiet mind. Reports of impressive healing and

regeneration you may hear attributed to the Q (which I won't share

here) should be credited to the body's activated innate intelligence,

which the Q supports and energizes.

One might ask if people througout history have enjoyed " electron

therapy. " The answer is yes, and it still happens around the world

when people go to spas and hot springs where water is naturally

charged with electrons. Going to these places is much more common in

Europe evidently as people take a couple weeks off to regenerate with

the waters. So when you think of it as consuming an important

nutrient this is actually not off topic for this list.... Also next

time you go to the store look for Trinity water, which comes from a

spring that is high in electrons. They actually list the ORP value

(I think -220) though those electrons are long gone by the time you

drink it due to the fact that it is not bottled in glass.

The Q is one of our most exciting new products and we have been

getting the best response lately from practitioners, who have

reported that their effectiveness as practitioners is increasing by

200-500%! I could go on but will just suggest that anyone who wants

more info can email me privately and I can email or send a packet of

info. I can also share actual scientifically verifiable studies that

I know of relating to this instrument.

The Q costs $2000, and there is a 30-day money back trial. One can

also become a dealer if you like it (not MLM).

Cheers,

PS - As for the Grander, I have heard from one source that its

efficacy is compromised by X rays in the customs/import process.

Another source has suggested that it was designed for European

current (55hz I think?) and not for US 60hz current and that this

seriously impairs its functioning. I've heard that if these problems

were addressed it could be a really good unit. Would love to know

what others think.

> [Original Message]

> From: Barb Carr <bdcarr@...>

> < >

> Date: 2/12/2002 4:38:00 PM

> Subject: Re: Re: Water filters and fluoride

removal

>

> ,

> I have been trying to find a good way to get high electron water

for some time. I use to have a flow-through ionizer but it did not

filter out flouride. I've used a " batch " ionizer but it is a pain to

use (I don't want to have to make that much water). The batch system

also creates water that is too alkaline (above pH of 10). I don't

like the idea of adding products to the water such as crystal energy

or microhydrin. What is the " Q " device? Is it added to a water purif

system and if so, does it have to go with your particular system or

can I add it to my already existing RO system? How does the Q add

electrons? Does it alter ph? How much does it cost? What is the redox

value of the water created with this device and can it be adjusted?

Does it change the surface tension? So many questions! I looked for

it on your website but didn't see it.

>

> Thanks,

> Barb

> Electron-enrichment by the way is one of

> the objectives of our water system and of the " Q " which is an

> incredible new device that essentially bathes the body in

> regenerating electrons to use however our innate intelligence

sees

> fit.)