Re: Do Not Leave Sweetened Tea At Room Temperature Overnight

[Guest guest]

What about making KT? I was told to add the sugar when the water had

boiled, stir and put in the tea bags. Then to let completely cool

which I do over night as it takes so long for my large stanless steel

pot to cool. So now what do we do? Suggestions? Carol B

>

>

> >Please do not leave sweetened tea overnight at room temperature to

cool...

> >It has been reported that toxic substances, either bacteria or

molds I don't

> >remember which were found in some restaurant iced teas that had

been left

> >overnight at room temperature.

> >

> >Safer to use less water for your tea, sugar, water mixture and then

cool it

> >right away with the rest of the water. The only time that would be

a problem

> >is if you have to boil your water before you drink it. Then all of

it should

> >also be boiled for making Kombucha.

>

> Yes, but, if that's the case, people would still be better off to

boil the

> water and let it cool plain. Then still boil the small amount for

steeping

> the tea. Don't let tea, sweetened or not, sit around at room temp.

>

> --V

>

>

>

> ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

> --A.J. Muste

>

[Guest guest]

Do we really know where it started and how they did it? Carol B

>

>

> >The thing that gets me is that I didn't know that boiling water was

> >bad for the water. Glad I joined this group and became more active.

> >:-) Carol B

>

> I'm glad you did too. The instruction to boil the water was no doubt

> intended to make sure that everyone got rid of chlorine, and perhaps

there

> was concern over microorganisms. But the KT is so dominant a

culture, and

> we provide the water with such a huge majority of the KT organisms,

that it

> overwhelms anything that may be present. And, as Ed mentioned,

boiling is

> not an adequate sterilization method in any case.

>

> So, the instruction to boil all the water originated somewhere, no

doubt

> with completely good intentions, but it's really not a good universal

> requirement, at all. The instruction should be that each person

needs to

> assess their water source, that chlorine and chloramine must be removed

> from the water, that filtered water is almost always completely safe in

> terms of the chlor factors, etc.

>

> And the trouble with the KT wo

rld is that because the tradition has not

> been continuous in the West, we've been having to reinvent the wheel

about

> the knowledge required. So one source makes a statement, and then

other

> sources take that statement as truth and pass it along, and pretty

soon we

> have a " rule " that is simply not based in useful practice. Boiling

all the

> water is one of those.

>

> --V

>

>

>

> ~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

> --A.J. Muste

>

[Guest guest]

Ed wrote:

>These questions have been around for many years and IMO, not

>adequately addressed publicly. Yet IMO, they are a real

>concern to these industry giants wary of possible health

>related lawsuits. My suspicion is that they are adding

>pesticides and preservatives that would forestall any

>initial pathogens.

Yet another reason to use organic tea. If they incorporate anti-mold

chemicals in the paper of the bag, they probably don't have to claim that

on their packaging.

>My own kitchen counter test of a used

>t-bag did not result in any noticeable mold for over one

>week.

One of the things about mold is that by the time we can see it, it's well

established in the item. But, I take your point to be that the Lipton bag

didn't mold as quickly as an organic bag would?

>For us, cooling down the sweeten tea is the most dangerous

>aspect and most likely point of contamination. Not having

>the sweeten tea covered dramatically increases that danger.

Yes, but when cooling soups or anything hot the caution is crack the lid to

allow steam to escape because certain bacteria actually can thrive in the

closed environment. Yet another reason not to boil the whole batch.

>Three common methods of preparing the sweeten tea.

>

>1. fill the sink with cold water and set the sweeten tea pot

>in the cold bath. Allowing the cold water to run will

>shorten the time. Initial while the temperature is over 190F

>the cover may be off but should definitely be on as the

>temperature goes below 190F.

Allowing the water to run is a huge waste of water. I think it is wrong to

waste water in this manner-- another example of Western wastefulness. I

don't think it does a thing for one's relationship with KT to be wasteful

in the making of it.

>2. Make a concentrated sweeten tea. Use the full proportion

>but less water. (Say 1/2). Then add the remaining water

>(1/2) back in to cool. One idea is to pre-boil the cooling

>water and then cool that down. Or use room temperature water

>of known quality. This is simply a modified Ice-tea recipe.

I've been doing this for a long time now, and it doesn't require 1/2 the

full amount to steep the tea. 2 to 4 cups is quite adequate. I can't

find my book right now, but I started making KT according to one of Herald

Tietze's books, and this method may even have been part of his

instructions. I'll try to find my book.

>3. Use your coffee maker (Mr. Coffee style) to make a pot of

>tea instead of coffee. Use the same amount, or slightly more

>of tea that you normally use just make only one pot (or

>less) of tea. Use a coffee filter for loose leaf teas or

>just the tea bags without the coffee filter if using t-bags.

>While the water is still hot add the sugar. When the sugar

>is dissolved add the sweeten tea to more room temperature

>water to bring the total volume to your size container.

Whenever I've used a coffee machine to make plain hot water, it tastes of

old coffee. I would NOT recommend this method to anyone who cares about

their KT. People would have to be really desperate to be boiling their tea

water in a coffee machine.

>Boiling is considered necessary to remove chlorine but does

>little in the way of " sterilization " unless done so for

>twenty plus minutes and then under pressure. Over boiling

>water may deplete needed oxygen from the water and starve

>the ferment.

Boiling definitely removes oxygen from water, it's a fact. Boiling, as I

pointed out with links in another post, does not remove chloramine, which

is becoming more and more common as the water-treatment chemical.

> IMO, water should be hot enough to steep the

>tea and dissolve the sugar, no more. Water should be of

>known quality chlorine-free. Salt usually added to bottled

>water is not harmful to kombucha (as long as it is

>chlorine-free). Some people, especially those it seems with

>bakers experience, actually add a pinch of salt to the

>kombucha ferment. People have reported successfully

>fermenting kombucha in well water and tap water and thus

>kombucha is not a science but remains an art.

I live in the country and use water that comes from a surface spring, goes

through a sediment filter and then a Multi-Pure carbon block filter. People

should realize that the requirement is to get rid of chlorine/chloramine,

and find the solution for that problem in their brewing lives. The point

is, boiling doesn't enhance the water, doesn't sterilize it, and doesn't

remove chloramine in any case. So the universal instruction to boil all

the water gives a false sense of security.

1. It wastes fuel, which in non-Western cultures is a no-brainer, and will

become more and more a factor in Western people's decisions about how to

live their lives.

2. It doesn't solve the problem universally because boiling doesn't remove

chloramine.

3. Letting sweetened tea sit to cool overnight is an ripe opportunity to

introduce mold and/or other competing organisms.

4. Trying to cool a large vat of boiling water in the sink is potentially

quite wasteful of water, a precious resource that should be respectfully

conserved.

I say the Hado prayer over my batches as I make them, Dr. Emoto recommends

a repetition of 4:

Water, I love you.

Water, I thank you.

Water, I respect you.

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

>Seem like my comment on letting tea cool over night has really gotten

>things started.

Yes Bill, good work

> Steeping and for desolving the sugar in 2 cups of

>water then adding additional cool water would really cut down the

>cycle time to get a fresh batch going. What size batch is the 2 cup

>recommendation for? Intuitively seems about right for say 3 quarts

>but a little light for say 9 quarts. Of course like so many thing

>I'm discovering about KT it might not matter at all.

Absolutely right. There I was, making a universal statement that wasn't

really universal after all! No, 2 cups is for the 3 quart batch (nominal

gallon batch). You'd need to up the proportion for larger vessels-- the

point is just to have enough hot water to steep out the tea. Thanks for

catching that

--V

~~~ There is no way to peace; peace is the way ~~~~

--A.J. Muste

[Guest guest]

>

> So, the instruction to boil all the water originated somewhere, no doubt

>

> with completely good intentions, but it's really not a good universal

> requirement, at all. The instruction should be that each person needs to

> assess their water source, that chlorine and chloramine must be removed

> from the water, that filtered water is almost always completely safe in

> terms of the chlor factors, etc.

>

My water company (EBMUD) uses Chloramine Residual as Cl2 -- When I make my

sweet tea, I bring about 2 cups of tap water to just slightly under boiling

and add the tea and sugar. After steeping the tea, I add more cold

tapwater. When I made my first brew I do remember using filtered water

(Britta), but I know that I have been using regular tap water since then

because I ran out of filters.

My brews have been good and trouble free. Why must the Chlorine and/or

Chloramine be removed?

-nancy

[Guest guest]

At 11:59 PM 6/20/2006, you wrote:

>I've worked in food service before, and you'd be suprised how poorly

>those spigots are cleaned sometimes.

>

>Yaakov

If at all. They are constantly topping it off with new tea to allow it to

cool off rapidly.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Canfield

~Well done is better than well said.~

" For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. " Romans

10:13

[Guest guest]

I think, I've read that stiring the water will reoxygenate it?

Otherwise, for fish tanks you just let the covered jug/tank sit over

night (24hr).

-Audrey

<snippet>

Boiling the water

> actually damages the water (removes oxygen), so it's really really

best to

> avoid boiling all the water for KT, if at all possible.>

> --V

>

>

>